Mac Forum / Applications / Word / May 2008

Hello Bob,

Since you ask...

That most ancient and authoritative of all typesetting books, Hart's Rules
for Compositors and Readers at the University Press, Oxford, 1893, of which
I have the 39th edition, in the Appendix: Rules for composition and make-up:
General (page 144 in my edition) states simply:

"(c) Leading between paragraphs is not allowed in continuous text."

By "continuous text", it's evident from other instructions that Hart means
paragraphs otherwise uninterrupted by headings, tables, long quotes etc.

Picking up almost any newspaper or magazine will reveal the same thing. New
paragraphs are usually delineated only by starting with a one-pica (12
points) indent. There is no leading at all between the paragraphs. In other
words, the convention taught at Phillip's and Bob's school in the US, and my
schools in Australia and the UK, followed this rule.

I've had this discussion before, and when I've shown such continuous text
the person has usually said something like "How often have I been reading?
And I never noticed it before."

In case US participants in this newsgroup distrust Limies' usage: Looking to
US sources, The Chicago Manual of Style is consistent with Hart's Rules. In
my  14th edition, chapter 18 (Design and Typography), under successive
headings of ŒSpacing¹ and 'Between lines', the following extract shows the
several factors at play when considering how much leading is appropriate:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
18.23    The space between lines of type is called leading, or lead, because
in hand or Monotype composition it was originally created by strips of lead
inserted between lines of type (see also 2.137-38). To make more space
between lines of text is to lead it, or to lead it out. To close up
lines--leave less space between them--is to delete lead. Leading is measured
in points (one point equaling one-twelfth of a pica) and is always specified
by a designer for each type size used in a book. Where increased leading is
necessary--before and after extracts, for example--the number of points is
usually also specified. If extra leading is used to mark the divisions
between sections, the words 'blank line' or 'line space' circled in the
margin or in the space itself will tell the compositor to insert space
equivalent to one full line of type. A space mark (#) is usually sufficient
to indicate extra space between alphabetic sections in indexes.

18.24    To determine an appropriate amount of leading requires
consideration of a number of factors. The first of these, for text matter at
any rate, is readability, and this is largely dependent upon the type
measurements. The larger the type size, the more leading is required to
prevent the eye from being distracted by the lines above and below the one
being read. Also, the wider the line of type, the greater the leading
needed, because in moving from the end of one line to the beginning of the
next the eye takes a long jump, and in closely set material it may easily
jump to the wrong line. Another factor to consider is economy. Use of a
relatively small type size and reduced leading allows more words per page,
making a thinner book and cutting costs of paper, mailing (weight), and so
forth, although the cost of composition remains the same. The opposite of
this is the desire to make a short work into a longer book. More than the
usual number of points between lines will obviously result in fewer lines
per page and thus more pages in the book.

18.25    The designer's ultimate concern, in specifying leading as in every
other aspect of planning a book, is the nature of the material and the
audience for whom it is intended. [A footnote here states "For examples of
specifications appropriate to various kinds of material see sample layouts
at the end of this chapter"]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Looking at those examples, there are no leading instructions at all for
paragraphs in continuous text; the only such instructions relate to
headings, tables  and long quotes. New paragraphs are delineated by one-pica
indents.  If one blocks off an inch at either side of the page in the
examples, it's impossible to tell where the paragraphs start and stop.

Why do we customarily use leading to delineate paragraphs in word-processed
documents?  My guess is that the great majority decided over a period, back
in typewriter days or in early word-processing days, that it was better to
hit the carriage-return (or Return key) twice than hit the tab key.  I
remember having seen both in typewriter days <nostalgic sigh> but had no
great need to take notice -- I just used to dictate to my steno secretary
and she brought back something that I just read, corrected and signed.
Computers were used to get rockets to punch holes in the sky.

Hmm, who would have thought that, decades later, in order to conquer an
often vexatious piece of computer software, I and my good mates McGhie,
Jones, Roper et al would investigate its bowels to the nth degree to save
lots of time and money, then in misguided goodwill descend into this detail
to satisfy the likes of some anonymous, ADHD Generation Y bombast as the
so-called "kkd1411"?

But strangely, I feel better now. It *is* good to know what's proper...

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
============

On 12/5/08 6:16 AM, in article C44CCC76.3AB55%onlygeneraltaz1@com.cast.net,

Amennn! Brother!!!

Hey Taz I still have a Working Transistor AM Radio I bought when I was a
teenager (I'm 59 now). In fact I still have a working AM-FM Tube receive
I purchased in the early 60's to install in a Cabinet. It still works Great.

I don't have a Blackberry Can't afford to buy one and can't afford the
hundred Bucks a month just for the service. In a way I wish I had a
rotary dial Phone so my mother that's almost deaf could hear people on
the telephone. I've been through 5 or 6 of the touch tone phones (the
touch dial wear out and the headset become scratchy.

I still have some stuff filed away in Ring Binders.

I refuse to buy a Apple iPhone . Because they are tied to the sorriest
Cell phone service in our area. You can stand 50 feet from each other
and you'll get a dropped call. The second they consider untying service
to strict AT&T, is the second I will buy one.

I use Apple Computers. I burn CD's and DVD's (not for a Living). I have
two or three Digital Cameras. I have two 35MM SLR Camera.

IF your so heped up about modern Technology why don't you see if you can
get banned the the use of Plain Text in Emails and newsgroups?

I can read text far better that been formatted as HTML. Yet we have old
fogies in the system That agreed upon plain text and bottom post as the
norm back in the day of 150 baud modem and Bulletin boards. and  many
news groups stick to something that's 40 years old like glue.
 So you have room to talk.

Ho-ho-ho!

Pity I had to come in so late...

Firstly, Matthew, I well remember your revelation some months ago, and
you'll notice I have always used your name once you thus became a "real"
person (made easier by my elder son also having that noble name).  And I
have greatly enjoyed your many posts.  As for m'learned colleagues not
remembering, well, some have let slip their ages.  Maybe, for them, you
could, er, manually add your name...  ;-)

I agree with Matthew's comment about the desirability of being able to
select a preference in a more obvious place. Trouble is, I suppose, once you
start with that one I can think of dozens more. Then, impatient people will
complain they can't find it in among the choices. As they do already...

Speaking of impatience, I must confess that I find bombastic,
let-it-all-hang-out-after-milliseconds-of-thought comments a bit trying.
We've had a lot of them here lately. One is the OP's:

"What a dumb feature. I can't type a simple address on a cover letter.
Single spacing means single spaces. If i want a space between paragraphs I
can hit enter".

Surely it isn't too difficult to hold down the Shift key while hitting the
Return key at the end of a line, to force a new line in an address.

But "What a dumb feature" deserves comment.

You can switch it off if you want a typewriter. That's already been
addressed earlier in this thread.

But -- thank goodness -- Word isn't only capable of being used as a Vespa --
it's also very much, and uniquely, a Rolls Royce application, capable of
immensely more than the typewriter that the OP hankers after. If I want to
open up the paragraph leading [OP: = spaces between paragraphs] I can change
the definition of the style for, say, body text paragraphs (a) in that
document or (b) in all documents. Or I can manually add or remove leading to
one paragraph. Most often this is used to condense text back on to a
particular page when a little has flowed over to the next. Try doing that
with double paragraph marks / carriage returns.

Word enables me to do that in seconds or, with macros, less than a second.
Millions of people around the world use this "dumb feature" many times a
day. I've calculated my time savings through using Word well at almost 20
per cent compared with someone who doesn't deign to learn its features. Such
features, more importantly, immensely improve the quality of communication
that comes from the keyboard.

But I suspect the bleating by those like the OP who can't be bothered to
look beyond their noses will bend MacBU the other way before we know it. So
here's some advice: don't bleat here among fellow users: go to the Help menu
and tell the people at Microsoft what you think...

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the Americas and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
====================================================

On 12/5/08 10:25 AM, in article C44D06A0.3AB96%onlygeneraltaz1@com.cast.net,