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Mac Forum / Applications / Word / February 2007Caption problems for pictures
Hi I copied and pasted a picture into a Word for Mac 2004 v11.3 document for a book, aligned it how I wanted it, inserted Caption, which I set for automatic numbering (Numbered level for chapter, eg. Fig 3.1), and this worked fine for the first two pictures. However, when I tried this a third time for the same chapter the Caption appeared as a text box that: (a) had a border; (b) wasn't anchored to the picture, so that when I moved the picture, the Caption stayed where it was. Even when I highligted the text box, went to Format, and selected No Borders, this didn't eliminate the border. The only diffference is that the first two pictures that I pasted in and that worked were .jpg files and the subsequent ones were .tiff files, but I did use Paste Special and paste them as Pictures. I've tried everything I know. I followed all the Help instructions for Captions, but to no avail. I'm using an iMac Intel Duo with OSX 10.4.8. Extremely grateful for advice John Hi John, It depends on the Layout setting for the picture and whether it is floating or in-line with text. When you double-click an image to bring up the Format Picture dialog, 4 of the 5 wrapping options create floating graphics--square, tight, behind text, in front of text. I have no idea what controls whether pictures are pasted in as inline or floating. MVP Suzanne Barnhill wrote: "Probably you know that graphics can be inserted either "In Line with Text" (in the text layer) or "wrapped" ("floating," in the drawing layer). When you select an inline graphic and use Insert | Caption (or Insert | Reference | Caption), you get a caption that is plain text (in the Caption style). If you select a wrapped graphic, you get a caption that is in a text box." She suggests keeping all graphics Inline with Text to prevent this. "If you need text to wrap around your graphic, select both the inline graphic and its plain-text caption and insert both in a frame, then wrap the text around the frame." Taken from this thread, where there is some other general advice about keeping captions with images, but the guy is dealing with a different problem. <http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.word.formatting.longdocs/browse_ frm/thread/3ec05e9c18436b33/89a21dd383844c29?lnk=st&q=&rnum=4#89a21dd383844c29> I hope that helps--not knowing your document, it's not completely clear what your best option would be, but ideally that gives you the information you need to fix it. If not, post back. Daiya > Hi > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > John <snip> On 2/18/07 1:09 PM, in article O6t$kf4UHHA.4872@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl, "Daiya Mitchell" <daiyaNOSPAM@mvps.org.INVALID> wrote: > I have no idea what controls whether pictures are pasted in as inline or floating. <snip> In Line is the default setting in 2004 & unlike PC Word 2003 there is no option to change it. However, it is also dependent on the nature of the copied object. If, for example, you copy an object which has Text Wrapping applied that property is retained when you paste it in. Regards |:>) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac Daiya and Bob Very many thanks. If I select Inline with Text, and then Insert Caption, this does indeed produce a caption below the picture, and the numbering of the caption is correct (when the Text Box caption numbering is inconsistent as well as having borders when it shouldn't and not being anchored to the picture). But still some problems: (a) When I paste in the picture, and then double-click, the layout HASN'T defaulted to Inline with text, but to Horizontal Alignment>Other, and so I have to change this manually. (b) It also defaults to Text Box Caption with border (and aberrant number), and so I have to delete this caption and then Insert Caption to produce your suggested caption (with correct numbering). (c) This caption is still not anchored to the picture. 1. If I select the picture and change its alignment on the formatting palette to Centre (rather than its default of Left), the caption stays where it is, Left aligned 2. If I move the picture down, the caption stays where it is and a new, untitled caption with the next number appears beneath the picture in its new position. Bob, I'm not copying an object with text wrapping, but a picture. What I want all the pictures to do is display centred and have a consistently numbered caption beneath it, and if I move the picture or insert another later, for the the numbering to follow its position in the text. How can I do this without having to go through all these manual steps every time I insert a picture? Many thanks John > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Bob Jones > [MVP] Office:Mac Hi John: You need to make a choice of Inline or Floating up front when using pictures. I always use inline, never floating. So I create a paragraph style named "Picture" which I set to the required positioning properties (in your case, Centred) and apply Keep With Next. I then create a paragraph in that style and paste or insert the picture onto it. The picture is then automatically positioned and offset to a consistent measurement. I then hit Enter, to give me a following paragraph and insert the caption. Make sure the Caption style is set to Keep Lines Together, otherwise it might split at the bottom of the page. The Keep With Next on the Picture style holds the two together. If you use a floating picture, Word automatically encases the caption in a text box so it can float too. This breaks the ability to produce a list of Figures: anything in a text box is invisible to the TOC generator. If you have Insert>Caption>AutoCaption enabled, you will always get the unwanted text box. This is yet another example of hidden, automatically-stuff-up-your-document IntelliNonsense racing ahead leaving the user totally out of control and unable to recover. It's just design bugs: sorry. Once you turn off all the automatic rubbish designed to impress newbies, the mechanism works quite well. I use a macro to do it all for me: it opens a selection window to choose the graphic and automatically resizes the graphic so all graphics are a consistent size. Cheers On 19/2/07 9:10 AM, in article 1171836615.074720.307620@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "john@johnhands.com" > Daiya and Bob > [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] >> Bob Jones >> [MVP] Office:Mac  SignaturePlease reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email me unless I ask you to. John McGhie <john@mcghie.name> Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant Technical Writer. Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410 Hi John & everybody This is extremely helpful, especially to understand why the MS Help links didn't help me. However, I have found some problems trying to follow what seems an excellent routine: 1. When I copied in a picture it defaulted to a floating format with an automatic text box Caption. I double clicked on the picture and the Format Picture showed a default of Horizontal alignment > Other. Hence I had to select Inline with text and delete the text box, before inserting a non-text-box caption. How do I change the default to Inline? 2. After I had produced an Inline picture in a paragraph styled to Keep with Next, and the next resulted from Insert>Caption (no text box) and then I moved the picture, the Caption didn't move with it. What did I do wrong? Many thanks John On Feb 18, 10:50 pm, "John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]" <j...@mcghie.name> wrote: > Hi John: > [quoted text clipped - 104 lines] > Technical Writer. > Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410 Hi John: As I said in my earlier reply "If you have Insert>Caption>AutoCaption enabled, you will always get the unwanted text box." To change that, see the Word Help topic "Automatically add captions to tables, figures, equations, or other items". Word on the Mac has no ability to set the default wrapping style for pasting pictures: it will paste everything as Inline. Sorry about that :-) Hope this helps On 20/2/07 9:57 AM, in article 1171925876.844094.200410@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com, "john@johnhands.com" > Hi John & everybody > [quoted text clipped - 130 lines] >> Technical Writer. >> Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410 SignaturePlease reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email me unless I ask you to. John McGhie <john@mcghie.name> Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant Technical Writer. Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410 Hi John I'm afraid this doesn't answer my post number 6 of 19 Feb. I didn't use "Insert>Caption>AutoCaption > enabled" More importantly, you say that Word for Mac will past everything as Inline. What my earlier posting said was: "1. When I copied in a picture it defaulted to a floating format with an automatic text box Caption," which is the opposite of what you say. I'll be grateful if you check my posting number 6 and answer the two questions. With kindest regards John On Feb 21, 12:34 pm, "John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]" <j...@mcghie.name> wrote: > Hi John: > [quoted text clipped - 156 lines] > Technical Writer. > Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410 Hi John: Sorry, I didn't do so well there, did I? I thought Word always pasted inline as the default. It seems I was wrong: Word 2004 seems to paste pictures *with the layout they had when they were copied*. I thought they always pasted inline because all my pictures are in line, so I will always copy inline and thus always paste inline. However I just set one to Floating and copied it: it pasted as floating. So I was wrong: "It pastes the way it copied". However, the important part of my previous statement is: "There's no way to control that." Unfortunately, THAT statement is not subject to update -- Mac Word lacks the preference that enables you to set a default pasting layout for pictures. The other thing, which I should have made more clear, is that if the picture is floating, its caption MUST be floating so that the caption can move with the picture. If you don't want floating captions (and I would never want them...) then you have to ensure the picture is NOT floating before creating the caption. If you have AutoCaption switched ON, you need to switch that OFF otherwise you won't get a chance to set the picture to inline before creating the caption. I don't use AutoCaption, and I don't like living in a lottery as to what I will get, so I always create the paragraph for the caption before I use Insert Caption. If the insertion point is in a paragraph, and the picture is not selected, before you insert the caption, then the caption will be created inline every time. I know what I am going to get :-) So that's the other way of working: Paste your picture, then hit Enter before Insert>Caption. Taking the line off a text box is easy once you have selected the text box. But selecting a text box is not easy! It is extremely difficult to see whether you have selected the "text box" or the "text within the text box". 1) The FIRST click on the text box SHOULD select the text box itself, provided you click on the edge of it. If you click inside the text box, you will select the text. 2) The second click should select the text inside it. The only way to tell is to examine the border around the selected text box. If the border is composed of "dots" the text box object is selected and you can remove the border. If the border around appears as "lines" you have selected the text and the border controls are not available. Once you have the text box selected with its border showing as dots, then you can use Format>Text Box>Colours and Lines to set the border to "No Line". Not the greatest piece of UI design, is it... Hope this helps On 22/2/07 9:31 AM, in article 1172097106.010513.283200@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "john@johnhands.com" > Hi John > [quoted text clipped - 182 lines] >> Technical Writer. >> Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410 SignaturePlease reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email me unless I ask you to. John McGhie <john@mcghie.name> Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant Technical Writer. Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410 Hi John I now understand that Word 2004 pastes pictures with the layout when they were copied, that the default can't be changed, and that it is better to switch off AutoCaption. Accordingly I've changd all my pictures to Inline and switched off AutoCaption as you recommend. But this still doesn't answer Question 2 of my Post number 6. (This happens both with Inline pictures and Floating pictures.) As I asked in Post 4, what I want all the pictures to do is display centred and have a consistently numbered caption (also centred) beneath it, and if a move the picture then the caption follows it, and if it moves below another picture, for the caption number to change reflect the new order of pictures. Many thanks John On Feb 22, 6:11 am, "John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]" <j...@mcghie.name> wrote: > Hi John: > [quoted text clipped - 256 lines] > > read more » Hi John, I have no idea which your post #6 is, as the interface I use does not have the numbers (ditto for John McGhie), but if this is your still unanswered question: > 2. After I had produced an Inline picture in a paragraph styled to > Keep with Next, and the next resulted from Insert>Caption (no text > box) and then I moved the picture, the Caption didn't move with it. > What did I do wrong? > I don't think you did anything wrong. The Caption and the Picture are two separate entities. They won't move together unless you select them both and move them. The "keep with next" setting that is applied to the Picture will prevent Word from breaking a page right after the picture, leaving the caption orphaned. It doesn't make them move together. If selecting them both is really too much trouble, you could put them both in a frame. But I think frames are a lot of trouble. The caption number should update when you Update Fields. I'm not clear on the status of your questions, so if something is still unanswered, please ask it again. Daiya > Hi John > [quoted text clipped - 287 lines] >> read more » >> Hi John: Yeah, I'm lost too :-) The Google interface you are using carries the messages in a different order from the Microsoft web interface some of us use, the web scraper interfaces others use, and the NNTP newsreaders most of the MVPs use. :-) However, in one of my earlier posts (!) I explained that I put each picture on a paragraph of its own, set inline. I put each caption on a paragraph of its own, set inline. I then use styles to position the paragraphs (and thus, the pictures and captions) as I want them. It is important to use the Keep With Next property in the style for the picture paragraph, to force it to follow the Caption paragraph to a new page if necessary. It is essential that the Caption style have the Keep Lines Together property to prevent it splitting at the bottom of a page, otherwise the previous property cannot work. If you must persist with floating pictures and captions, then use the Drawing facility to "Group" the picture with its caption. It won't work perfectly, and makes for troublesome document maintenance, which is why I don't use that method. Cheers On 22/2/07 11:53 PM, in article 1172148830.386703.29290@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com, "john@johnhands.com" > Hi John > [quoted text clipped - 287 lines] >> >> read more » SignaturePlease reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email me unless I ask you to. John McGhie <john@mcghie.name> Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant Technical Writer. Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410 Hi John - Let me stick my nose in once again :) On 2/22/07 7:53 AM, in article 1172148830.386703.29290@p10g2000cwp.googlegroups.com, "john@johnhands.com" > As I asked in Post 4, what I want all the pictures to do is display > centred and have a consistently numbered caption (also centred) > beneath it, Centering is an attribute of the paragraph containing the picture as well as the one containing the caption. To have them centered it is necessary to apply center alignment to each, either directly or by way of a Style. IOW, neither the graphic nor the caption (text) can have center alignment applied to *them*, nor can they "carry it along" if you move them. They become a part of the para you move them to & will be aligned according to the formatting of that para. So... >and if a move the picture then the caption follows it, and > if it moves below another picture, for the caption number to change > reflect the new order of pictures. Two points here: If you need to move an image with its caption while retaining center alignment it is best to select both paras & move them at the same time - just as though they were 2 consecutive paras of text. I get the impression that you have been deceived by the "Keep with Next" terminology. It doesn't create a permanent bonding of those two specific paras. It simply tells the program that if a page break, column break or section break occurs that the paragraph to which it is applied should not get separated from the one that follows it - _whatever_ following para it happens to be at the time. The second point is that the caption fields don't automatically update when you rearrange them. Only Footnotes, Endnotes & Bookmarks do. If the order changes & you want to see the update take place immediately, Command-Click the caption number & select Update Field. HTH |:>) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac Dear Daiya, John, & Bob Very many thanks for clarifications. I had misunderstood John's previous advice and was under the impression that it made the caption anchored to the picture. (An icon of an anchor appears at the bottom LH corner of the picture, but I've no idea what it means.) I was also under the impression that the caption automatically updated its numbering if was moved. Just so that I understand correctly this time, am I right in thinking that the best plan is: 1. Change all my pictures to Inline and switch off AutoCaption. 2. Create para style Diagram, which is Centred and Keep with Next. 3. Copy picture into this para. 4. Create caption. If move: 5. Select both picture and caption, and then move both together 6. Control-Click Caption Number and Select "Update Field" Very many thanks John > Hi John - > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > Bob Jones > [MVP] Office:Mac By Jove, I think he's got it!!! :-) Yessir - I know it sounds a little "unintuitive" - especially since MS blesses us with 'floating' graphics capability, but John's approach when dealing with a large number/long doc is quite sound. Floaters are fine in short docs and/or if kept to a minimum, as long as you understand how to control them. That's a part of what the anchors are all about. All floaters must be anchored to a paragraph which appears on the same page in the text flow. That's [one reason] why they can be hard to control - as the text re-flows so goes the graphic. Most of what you'll find here is PC-oriented, but the principles & concepts are much the same. Have a gander when you have nothing "better" to do: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/DrawingGraphics.htm (click Reload a few times as necessary if using Safari) Regards |:>) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac On 2/26/07 5:09 PM, in article 1172527763.078367.304460@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com, "john@johnhands.com" > Dear Daiya, John, & Bob > [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] >> Bob Jones >> [MVP] Office:Mac Hi John: Yep: You've got it. If you click a picture and an anchor appears, that's a sure sign that the picture is "floating". If the picture is set to inline, the anchor won't appear. Cheers On 27/2/07 9:09 AM, in article 1172527763.078367.304460@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com, "john@johnhands.com" > Dear Daiya, John, & Bob > [quoted text clipped - 67 lines] >> Bob Jones >> [MVP] Office:Mac SignaturePlease reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email me unless I ask you to. John McGhie <john@mcghie.name> Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant Technical Writer. Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410 Hi John - My post was more in response to Daiya's quite atypical uncertainty, but just for further clarification... <snip> On 2/18/07 5:10 PM, in article 1171836615.074720.307620@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, "john@johnhands.com" > Bob, I'm not copying an object with text wrapping, but a picture. <snip> A picture _is_ an object, as are tables, AutoShapes, Word Art, etc. Whether it has Text Wrapping applied depends on what it is you are copy/pasting & where you're copying from. OTOH, if you use the Insert>Picture>From File command the object (picture) will be inserted In Line by default. Regards |:>) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac Thanks, Bob, for explaining this. But I'm still left with a problem: see reply to John. John > Hi John - > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > Bob Jones > [MVP] Office:Mac |
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