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Mac Forum / Applications / Word / September 2006Word 2004 crashes in MacIntel
Greetings: I have a MacbookPro and so far I have been very happy with it. Office is a bit slow, but definitely usable. However, I recently found a situation that consistently chrashes Word. 1. Open a document (even a blank) 2. Select View>Master Document 3. Split the window by dragging on the corner icon. 4. Word 2004 crashes. I have installed all the updates. Any suggestions? Split screens in Master view is a very useful tool for complex documents... Thanks, -FC Can anyone else on a MacIntel machine and Word 2004 confirm this? Before we try troubleshooting, FC, I thought we'd better find out if it's a Word bug or not.  Signature***Please always reply to the newsgroup!*** Beth Rosengard MacOffice MVP Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html> My Site: <http://www.bethrosengard.com> On 8/27/06 12:32 PM, in article 1156707171.022761.70440@75g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, > Greetings: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > -FC Hello Beth: I checked with a friend who has a MacBook Pro and he observed the same behavior -- crashes on splitting the screen. -FC > Can anyone else on a MacIntel machine and Word 2004 confirm this? > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > > > -FC Hi FC, One more thing. It's a *real* long shot (since you're not crashing on Save) but ... go into your Word preferences and turn off the Save preference called, "Save preview picture with new documents." Does that make any difference? Signature***Please always reply to the newsgroup!*** Beth Rosengard MacOffice MVP Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html> My Site: <http://www.bethrosengard.com> On 8/28/06 1:23 PM, in article 1156796589.305191.224480@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com, "FC-Madison" <Franco.Cerrina@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello Beth: > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >>> >>> -FC Hello Franco, A minor question that might help to clarify things: Does the behaviour occur when you split the screen by keying Command-Option-s ? Cheers, Clive Huggan Canberra, Australia (My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the US and Europe, so my follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed) ============================================================ On 29/8/06 7:49 AM, in article C118B302.36664%bethrosengard@earthlink.net, > Hi FC, > > One more thing. It's a *real* long shot (since you're not crashing on Save) > but ... go into your Word preferences and turn off the Save preference > called, "Save preview picture with new documents." Does that make any > difference? Hello Clive: Yes it does. I also tried turning off the Save Preview, like Beth suggested, but it still crashes. -FC > Hello Franco, > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > called, "Save preview picture with new documents." Does that make any > > difference? Thanks for getting back to us on this. I'll post back here as soon as I hear anything from MSFT. Beth On 8/29/06 12:00 PM, in article 1156878044.871755.223150@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "FC-Madison" <Franco.Cerrina@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello Clive: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >>> called, "Save preview picture with new documents." Does that make any >>> difference? Very interesting! 100 per cent repro here in OS 10.3.9/G4 and Word 2004 :-) This is not a MacIntel issue. This is a "limitation" in Word 2004. It would appear that Word crashes if you try to split the screen in Master Document View on "any" OS/Processor. Which would stand to reason: Master Document View is already a multiply-split view... I never have tried to split the screen in Master Document View. Then again, I never use Master Document View for making documents. To learn why, see here: http://word.mvps.org/FAQS/General/WhyMasterDocsCorrupt.htm So: If you care to tell us what you are trying to use Master Documents for, we may be able to suggest many better ways of accomplishing what you want. Without either Master Document view or crashes :-) Cheers On 30/8/06 5:00 AM, in article 1156878044.871755.223150@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com, "FC-Madison" <Franco.Cerrina@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello Clive: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >>> called, "Save preview picture with new documents." Does that make any >>> difference? SignaturePlease reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email me unless I ask you to. John McGhie <john@mcghie.name> Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410 Thanks, John. The goal is simple: coordinate in a single document material written by several colleagues, for a proposal. Typically people often use different formatting tweaks, so the ability of master documents to override the individual formatting is great. If you know of another way, I'd be delighted. Robustness and the ability to have a consistent style are the most important things. -FC > Very interesting! > [quoted text clipped - 59 lines] > Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer > Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410 Franco, I receive large amounts of text from colleagues whose formatting habits in many cases are feral. So I know your pain... I describe how I manage this under the heading "Removing styles from copied text to be pasted in" on page 110 of some notes on the way I use Word for the Mac, titled "Bend Word to Your Will", which are available as a free download from the Word MVPs' website (http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html). You may also find some useful information in appendix A to "Bend Word to Your Will", which covers "minimum maintenance" formatting. [Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. If you decide to read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read the front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can select some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.] The underlying message is that professional document developers never use Word's Master Documents feature. Dark Things be down that road... ;-) Cheers, Clive Huggan Canberra, Australia (My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the US and Europe, so my follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed) ============================================================ On 4/9/06 6:18 AM, in article 1157314738.848751.10150@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com, "FC-Madison" <Franco.Cerrina@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks, John. The goal is simple: coordinate in a single document > material written by several colleagues, for a proposal. Typically [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] >> Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer >> Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410 Hi all, I seem to be experiencing some problems with the clipboard in Word 2004. I frequently work with two documents open and occasionally need to copy/paste chunks of text from one doc to another. However, since migrating to a MacIntel and running Word under Rosetta, I have consistently encountered a spinning beachball when copying/pasting between documents. The hang-up is usually so bad that I have to force quit the program to regain control of the system. As I've done a search on this topic and haven't found any instances where this has occurred with others, I was wondering if this was just an isolated problem with my computer or if this was really a bug with Rosetta. So far I have not encountered this in the past when running Word under a PPC computer. Can anyone confirm this? It's really a bother sometimes when I need to copy/paste something. TIA! > I describe how I manage this under the heading "Removing styles from copied > text to be pasted in" on page 110 of some notes on the way I use Word for > the Mac, titled "Bend Word to Your Will", which are available as a free > download from the Word MVPs' website > (http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html). This looks very interesting and helpful. Is there something similar for Word 2003 for Windows? On 5/9/06 11:45 PM, in article 1157463926.088628.199000@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com, "guanzhi@gmail.com" >> I describe how I manage this under the heading "Removing styles from copied >> text to be pasted in" on page 110 of some notes on the way I use Word for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > This looks very interesting and helpful. Is there something similar for > Word 2003 for Windows? No, because I mainly operate on the Mac platform, and "Bend Word" literally started with half a page of notes I wrote to adapt to the major changes in Mac Word between version 5.1a and Word 2001. They just grew from there. As far as I know, no-one has done the same type of exercise for the PC. However, depending on the features of Word 2007 and the subsequent Mac version ... hmm, who knows what I might do? But it will be a while yet. However, I do include notes on the differences between Word commands on the PC and Mac. To find them, just key Control-d (Command-d on the Mac) and look for "PC"; repeat for "Windows" It's not too difficult to adapt the notes to give insights to the PC versions in fact Mac users of Office do it all the time, because all the detailed books by major publishers are written for the PC. :-) Cheers, Clive Huggan ============ On 9/5/06 2:03 PM, in article C1242343.1E64B%REMOVETHISoffice@ANDTHISstrategists.com.au, "Clive Huggan" <REMOVETHISoffice@ANDTHISstrategists.com.au> wrote: >>> I describe how I manage this under the heading "Removing styles from copied >>> text to be pasted in" on page 110 of some notes on the way I use Word for [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > versions in fact Mac users of Office do it all the time, because all the > detailed books by major publishers are written for the PC. :-) Also, there are a lot of great resource articles for Word for Windows at our sister site (though they're not quite like Clive's BWTYW :-)!). See here: <http://word.mvps.org/index.html>. If you happen to be using Safari when you access this site, note that it is in transition and any of the pages still in the old format may not open properly in Safari. You will have to hit Reload once or twice; better yet, use Mac Firefox (or Win Firefox or Win IE). Signature***Please always reply to the newsgroup!*** Beth Rosengard MacOffice MVP Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html> My Site: <http://www.bethrosengard.com> On 6/9/06 7:03 AM, in article C1242343.1E64B%REMOVETHISoffice@ANDTHISstrategists.com.au, "Clive Huggan" <REMOVETHISoffice@ANDTHISstrategists.com.au> wrote: > On 5/9/06 11:45 PM, in article > 1157463926.088628.199000@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com, "guanzhi@gmail.com" [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Clive Huggan > ============ Sorry, Control-d / Command-d should have been Control-f / Command-f (the "Find" command). CH === Yes. It's the same volume, written by Clive :-) The only real difference would be that Mac users tend to be keystroke-centric, Windows users tend to be toolbar centric. Clive doesn't talk much about customising the right-click because it's difficult to do in Word for the Mac, whereas in Windows Word you customise the right-click the same way you customise anything else, by dragging and dropping. Oh: One more thing. The most essentially important part of what Clive says is that you *should* bend Word to your will. Too many users wail daily about how awful Word is, yet do nothing to make it the way they want it. I have completely replaced the user interface in Word 2003. You may not even recognise it as Word. And you'd probably hate it -- but it suits me... You can do the same! If I were to give one bit of advice that is not appropriate to Mac Word, it would be "Learn to use the Help effectively." The help in Mac Word is a very great deal better than it was, but it's still not even close to the breadth and depth of Windows Word's help. But you will never find that out unless you spend half an hour reading the "Help on how to use help" :-) Cheers On 5/9/06 11:45 PM, in article 1157463926.088628.199000@d34g2000cwd.googlegroups.com, "guanzhi@gmail.com" >> I describe how I manage this under the heading "Removing styles from copied >> text to be pasted in" on page 110 of some notes on the way I use Word for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > This looks very interesting and helpful. Is there something similar for > Word 2003 for Windows? SignaturePlease reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email me unless I ask you to. John McGhie <john@mcghie.name> Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410 I'll second your remarks, John. And paragraph 4 should be in a frame on the wall above everyone who earns a living one way or another through using Word. If you don't earn a living from it, well, that's different: the time-wasting and frustration is therapeutic, surely ... ;-) Cheers, Clive ======== On 6/9/06 8:10 PM, in article C124DBCB.4571C%john@mcghie.name, "John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]" <john@mcghie.name> wrote: > Yes. It's the same volume, written by Clive :-) > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >> This looks very interesting and helpful. Is there something similar for >> Word 2003 for Windows? So I guess I have the *worst* of all worlds - having to train other on how to use the features dictated by courseware developers who know less about the program than many of the students... Which are those proven to be the most likely to fail - Versions, Master Docs, ad infiitum :) Regards |:>) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac On 9/6/06 5:49 PM, in article C1257FA0.1E711%REMOVETHISoffice@ANDTHISstrategists.com.au, "Clive Huggan" <REMOVETHISoffice@ANDTHISstrategists.com.au> wrote: > I'll second your remarks, John. And paragraph 4 should be in a frame on the > wall above everyone who earns a living one way or another through using [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >>> This looks very interesting and helpful. Is there something similar for >>> Word 2003 for Windows? Hi Franco: I presume you mean "to retain individual formatting"? A Master Document will enable you to do either. To retain formatting variations, have a look at "INCLUDETEXT" fields. These will do the same thing, without the Master Document unreliability. Master Documents started out as a technique for "printing" a composite document, and for that, they're very satisfactory. Problems occur only if you attempt to EDIT a master document. Unless you are EXTREMELY careful (and have advanced knowledge of what NOT to do ...) they corrupt almost instantly. I recently completed a 2,500-page proposal, automatically assembled by macro from 400 individual files, using INCLUDETEXT fields. I wouldn't dare trust master documents with that amount of text on the very tight schedules you get with bids and proposals. Actually, I lie: The document was 5,000 pages, but we managed to pre-print a lot of the appendices. And yes, we won the bid! If you really do want to "unify" the formatting, use a long single document. Given an adequate machine, Word will stay with you up to around 5,500 pages in a single document. And if you haven't got an "adequate" machine, you shouldn't really be trying large document preparation to a tight deadline :-) A dual-processor box with a couple of gigs of memory will do quite nicely. One of the keys is plenty of space on a fast hard disk. But to make Word move along, feed it MEMORY! I assume you know your way around Outline View? If not, drop what you're doing right now and research it in the help. It's the long document specialist's secret weapon, which makes Word the MOST powerful long document tool there is :-) Others would disagree, of course, but I find Word far better than FrameMaker for really big documents. Other techniques I use are Linked Pictures, and Referenced Documents (RD Fields). Look them up in the Help: if you need more information, by all means come back here... Cheers On 4/9/06 6:18 AM, in article 1157314738.848751.10150@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com, "FC-Madison" <Franco.Cerrina@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks, John. The goal is simple: coordinate in a single document > material written by several colleagues, for a proposal. Typically [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] >> Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer >> Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410 SignaturePlease reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email me unless I ask you to. John McGhie <john@mcghie.name> Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410 Thanks. That's what I needed to know. In that case, it sounds like a Word bug and not something you can troubleshoot (unless someone comes up with a workaround). I'll escalate the issue to MSFT and report back if/when there's anything to say. Unfortunately, bug fixes usually have to wait for an update but crashing bugs are the most serious kind, so we can hope. Signature***Please always reply to the newsgroup!*** Beth Rosengard MacOffice MVP Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html> My Site: <http://www.bethrosengard.com> On 8/28/06 1:23 PM, in article 1156796589.305191.224480@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com, "FC-Madison" <Franco.Cerrina@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello Beth: > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >>> >>> -FC Hey Franco, Thanks for posting. I've read your post and your detailed steps (thanks!) and forwarded this information on. In the mean time if you still want to use the Split Pane in Master Document View, one suggestion I have would be to "simulate" a split pane, by creating a new window. On the menu bar, just go: Window | New Window. This will create a second 'view' of the same document. You can then resize and reposition the windows above and below each other, to simulate the split pane behavior. We'll be monitoring this issue for inclusion in a future release. Hope that helps, SignatureJeffrey Weston Mac Word Test Macintosh Business Unit Microsoft This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. > Greetings: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > -FC Thanks, Jeff. I'll do that for now. -FC > Hey Franco, > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > > > > -FC |
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