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Mac Forum / Applications / Word / November 2005Normal Template
I would like to re-format my Normal.dot template. However, although I have a reformatted the Normal.dot template and saved it in the Templates folder (and trashed the original one, and emptied the trash can), whenever I start Word it comes back with its generic MS version. I am staring at the Help menu about the Normal Template and can¹t see anything wrong with what I am doing. Naturally, this thing frustrates me. What am I missing? What version of Word? You cannot create a Normal template yourself. You MUST allow Word to create it, then change the formatting in the Word-generated Normal. Do NOT create a template and try to save it as Normal.dot (MacWord doesn't use the .dot extension for Normal anyhow). What kind of formatting changes are you trying to make? More possibly useful information: http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/MacWordNormal.htm (hit refresh a few times in Safari, or use a different browser) Can you share the exact Help topic you are referring to? > I would like to re-format my Normal.dot template. However, although I have > a reformatted the Normal.dot template and saved it in the Templates folder [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > anything wrong with what I am doing. Naturally, this thing frustrates me. > What am I missing?  SignatureDaiya Mitchell, MVP Mac/Word Word FAQ: http://www.word.mvps.org/ MacWord Tips: <http://www.word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/> What's an MVP? A volunteer! Read the FAQ: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/ Hi Ms. Mitchell, Thank you for your prompt reply and the link to the MVP document on this subject. The exact Help topic I looked at is from the application Word and the subject is Normal Template. I am using MacOSX' Word X Service Release 1. This is what the help article says: Normal template A general-purpose template that you can use for any type of document. When you start Microsoft Word or click New Blank Document , Word creates a new blank document that is based on the Normal template. You can modify this template to change the default document formatting or content. You should store the Normal template in the Templates folder or in the User Templates or Workgroup Templates file location you specified in File Locations in the Preferences dialog box (Word menu, Preferences command). If Word can't find the Normal template in any of these locations or in your Word program folder, it creates a new Normal template with standard Word document settings. I will dig into the MVP article and report back. Rudolf Daiya Mitchell wrote on 11/7/05 12:23 PM > What version of Word? > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> anything wrong with what I am doing. Naturally, this thing frustrates me. >> What am I missing? Dear Ms. Mitchell, After about two hours of intensive battle with Word for MacOSX, I have been able to create a new Normal template which I placed in a different file location (Word Preferences>FileLocations>User Templates>MyTemplates and for good measure also into Word Preferences>FileLocations>Startup). Then I erased all (?) other occurrences of Normal templates I found elsewhere. And surprise, surprise, when I open Word it starts in fact with a new document based on my modified Normal template. I am a bit jittery, however, since I am not sure Word is totally happy with what I have been doing: For once it tells me that when I start up Word that ³The global template, Normal, is already open as an add-in program². Where does this come from? Also, when I instructed Word to look for the start up template in ³WordPreferences, etc.² that there is no provision to erase an entry. For example I had also included Workgroup Templates¹ as a File Location which I really do not use. But now that it is there I find no way to eliminate this entry. Any solution for this? I have been using Word for about 15 20 years now (beginning with the MS Windows versions), but this Mac version is anything but simple. Too many things are not explained at all, or incomplete, or obscure. The only other explanation might be that I am getting too old. Anyway, I am glad we have you folks in the background helping us, although I always hesitate to bother the Newsgroup forum with my mundane problems. Hoping that Word will be happy with my changes for some time I would like to thank you for your patience. Rudolf H. incognito wrote on 11/7/05 7:14 PM > Hi Ms. Mitchell, > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >> create >> > it, then change the formatting in the Word-generated Normal. Do NOT create a >> > template and try to save it as Normal.dot (MacWord doesn't use the .dot >> > extension for Normal anyhow). [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>> >> anything wrong with what I am doing. Naturally, this thing frustrates me. >>> >> What am I missing? Hi Rudolf, Bother the newsgroup anytime. But, > After about two hours of intensive battle with Word for MacOSX, I have been > able to create a new Normal template it shouldn't take two hours, so I'm a little worried that you've been doing strange things to your computer. But I'll just address the problems you mentioned. >For once it > tells me that when I start up Word that ³The global template, Normal, is > already open as an add-in program². Where does this come from? It comes from the fact that you told Word to load Normal twice, by doing this: >which I placed in a different file > location (Word Preferences>FileLocations>User Templates>MyTemplates and for > good measure also into Word Preferences>FileLocations>Startup). But, "Word Preferences>FileLocations>User Templates>MyTemplates" is not actually a place where you can put a file, it's just an instruction to Word to *look* in a place for a file. So since I can't quite tell what you actually did, so here's some general information. Word X will look for Normal on launch in Applications/Office X/Templates. You should have Normal there and no where else on the hard drive. If the file Normal is there, then you shouldn't need to do anything else, you can ignore the File Locations settings in Word>Preferences. Since you already changed the File Locations settings, I can't figure out how to erase them either. But you can set the Startup setting in Word>Preferences>File Locations to Applications/MS Office 2004/Office/Startup/Word and that will be the default so it won't do anything different and you won't need to worry about it. You can ignore the Workgroup Templates setting, or just set it to some innocuous empty folder. It will not change the way Word functions, just what you see in the Project Gallery. [You could delete the file that holds the preference settings to erase the File Locations settings, but then you would have to reset everything and I don't think it's worth the trouble, so don't bother] > I have been using Word for about 15 20 years now (beginning with the MS > Windows versions), but this Mac version is anything but simple. Too many > things are not explained at all, or incomplete, or obscure. From what I know of WinWord, this isn't functioning very differently. Start new threads for other things that bother you--they are probably just quite simple tweaks. Hope that sorts out the customized Normal template, post back if not-- Daiya > Dear Ms. Mitchell, > [quoted text clipped - 87 lines] >>>>>> anything wrong with what I am doing. Naturally, this thing frustrates me. >>>>>> What am I missing? SignatureDaiya Mitchell, MVP Mac/Word Word FAQ: http://www.word.mvps.org/ MacWord Tips: <http://www.word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/> What's an MVP? A volunteer! Read the FAQ: http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/ Dear Daiya, Thank you again for your extensive help. I seem to have eliminated the unnecessary double loading of Word by putting my modified Normal template back into Applications>MicrosoftOfficeX>Templates, as you instructed. However, that is exactly the location where I put "my" Normal template when I started and before I begged for help. At the time, Word always came back to put its own standard Normal back in. Now, after I followed your advice and dug into the instructions in the MVP pamphlet and put my Normal into the MUD and eliminated all other occurrences of Normal, things seem to work as expected, no more standard Normal at start up or in the Project Gallery. So, I should be happy? Well, since I am old stickler, I am still not sure what I did wrong when I started this lengthy process. Could there be timing issues involved between when I eliminated the standard Normal template and replacing it with my own? Please don't bother to answer, I will take it as it is. I just wanted to let you know what can go on in people's mind if they don't understand the whole process. And I do understand that it can't be your role to educate every dumb user. Hope you have great day and Again, Thank You!!! Rudolf H. Daiya Mitchell wrote on 11/8/05 1:59 AM > Hi Rudolf, > [quoted text clipped - 148 lines] >>>>>>> me. >>>>>>> What am I missing? Hi Rudolf, 1) What do you mean by "my" Normal template? What do you mean by "eliminated the standard Normal template and replacing it with my own?" *You* do not create a Normal template. You always let Word create one, which it will do on launch if it doesn't find one, and then you change that existing file. If you have been doing this: 1) open a new doc 2) make customizations to it 3) Save As Format: Document Template 4) name it Normal 5) try to get Word to use it That is the WRONG thing to do, and is the original source of your problems from before your very first post, and I suspect was the cause of the 2-hour battle. 2) Where to put Normal: Normal was not loading twice because you had it in the MUD. It was loading twice because Word was loading it as usual, *and* because you had told Word to load it also as a startup file by setting it in Word| Preferences |File Locations under the Startup setting. That Startup setting was causing the problem. I didn't realize you had Normal in the MUD because you said you had put it here: "Word Preferences>FileLocations>User Templates>MyTemplates" but since that isn't actually a location on your hard drive, I had no idea where you had put Normal. (This is the difficulty with online communication, can't see what's going on :) So I said put it in Applications/MicrosoftOfficeX/Templates because that is the default and I didn't want to confuse you with extra directions and didn't realize you had already been using them. You can move it into the MUD, following the directions on the site, and that will be fine. Just ignore the other File Locations setting for Workgroup Templates, and set the Startup setting as I suggested before (to Applications/MS Office 2004/Office/Startup/Word). Having Normal in the MUD does not cause a problem. It was the Startup setting that you added "for good measure" that caused the double-loading. 3) >I just wanted to > let you know what can go on in people's mind if they don't understand the > whole process. It actually matters less that you understand the process beforehand than that the person helping you understands what you did--that's where the confusion arose here. The process can be explained easily enough--but not if the knowledgeable user has no idea there's a question about it. I wouldn't be here if I didn't like educating people. :) Please ask for clarification if anything I have said doesn't make sense--in particular, I would just as soon people understand what is going on as well as solve their immediate problem. Daiya > Dear Daiya, > [quoted text clipped - 179 lines] >>>>>>>> me. >>>>>>>> What am I missing? Dear Daiya, Before I get into some other details of your recent comments, I really have to say that I truly appreciate your help in general, but particularly this one comment that caught my attention: > I wouldn't be here if I didn't like educating people This attests to your untiring dedication which is so true with most of you folks out there in MVP land trying to help us out. THANK YOU MANY TIMES! Now to some details: 1a) > If you have been doing this: > 1) open a new doc [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > from before your very first post, and I suspect was the cause of the 2-hour > battle. The sequence of actions you listed above is exactly what I tried to do except I tried this approach also by opening the pre-existing Normal template. (This was the way I used to do it a few years ago on my PCs). At least I know now where I could have gone astray. 1b) > What do you mean by "my" Normal template? What do you mean by "eliminated > the standard Normal template and replacing it with my own?" *You* do not > create a Normal template. You always let Word create one, which it will do > on launch if it doesn't find one, and then you change that existing file. I must admit that I was a bit sloppy with my descriptions of the problem and I apologize that this caused you much extra work. What I meant with "my" Normal template is a 'Word created Normal template' modified by me to include a few simple features different from the standard (Word created) Normal template. Nothing fancy. When I said "I" created a Normal template, I meant it in the sense that I sit at the computer using Word to create a new Normal template. I was not aware of any other way to create a template for use in Word that could be created without using Word. Again, sorry for being so sloppy with my semantics. As for ³eliminated the standard Normal template ...² I had copied the modified template into various places, clearly not knowing what I was doing, but somehow hoping that Word would find it anyway. Of course it didn¹t. In this mess I found templates all named Normal which I eventually had to dump and start fresh once I got the first hints from you and the MVP pamphlet. Incidentally, what is actually the proper meaning of the instruction 'let Word create the template'? This was the real problem for my soggy brain: What do I have to do to let Word create this template¹? 2) > Where to put Normal: In your very first reply to my plea for help you provided a link to "MacWord's Normal Template" : http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/MacWordNormal.htm That document suggested (quote) "users of previous versions of Word move the Normal template (and optionally all custom templates) to the MUD, etc." I made a brief reference to that effect in one of my earlier responses. >(This is the difficulty with online communication, can't > see what's going on :) At some time in the future that "seeing what is going on" will be coming at little if any extra cost. 3) > It actually matters less that you understand the process beforehand than > that the person helping you understands what you did--that's where the > confusion arose here. This depends on one's perspective. I only mentioned my desire to understand the process in order to point to a personality trait of mine that was quite useful throughout my career as an engineer. It was not a reflection on not getting this benefit in this particular instance of our dialogue. (I guess I digressed here from my problem at hand). >The process can be explained easily enough--but not >if the knowledgeable user has no idea there's a question about it. This touches on a deeper problem in technology: The knowledgable user can almost never fathom how dumb a not-knowledgable user might be and how many of them there can be. (That's why many technical manuals are written by engineers for engineers and are thus by definition hardly useful for anybody else but an engineer). I hope you don¹t mind me wasting your time. I also hope I am not abusing the system. But I DO enjoy these kind of discussions, as you can see. Regards, Rudolf Daiya Mitchell wrote on 11/8/05 10:43 AM > Hi Rudolf, > [quoted text clipped - 251 lines] >>>>>>>>> me. >>>>>>>>> What am I missing? A couple of comments inline below, Rudolf. Cheers, Clive Huggan Canberra, Australia (My time zone is at least 7 hours different from the US and Europe, so my follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed) ============================================== On 10/11/05 11:21 AM, in article BF97FC9E.122E9%postonly@answer.com, > <snip> > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Regards, > Rudolf Hello Clive, Good evening, it¹s 22:23 here on the East coast in the US. Did not expect a response from down under. This internet is something, isn¹t it? You are certainly on the mark that the dumb questions¹ do stimulate innovation and evoke, in the right environment, critical review to ascertain the proper answer. We had among us engineers a maxim that there are ³no dumb questions². This was based on an unstated assumption that among engineers and scientists there could almost never be dumb questions. Come to think a bit more about this I am wondering whether in the area of science, technology, philosophy, and the like, a question can ever be labeled as dumb but easy or difficult. [I guess I used this cliché without much thinking about it and probably to evoke some compassion for my apparently futile attempts to solve a problem.] I am also glad to hear that you enjoy this particular dialogue, it is indeed fun going at problems this way! It blunts frustration. Have a nice day. Rudolf Clive Huggan wrote on 11/9/05 9:33 PM > A couple of comments inline below, Rudolf. > [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] >> Regards, >> Rudolf Hi Rudolf, > Incidentally, what is actually the proper meaning of the instruction 'let Word > create the template'? This was the real problem for my soggy brain: What do > I have to do to let Word create this template¹? When you quit Word, rename or trash your Normal template, and then re-launch Word, it will create a fresh new Normal. That¹s what Daiya meant by letting Word create the template. Then, as you already know, you have the option of modifying that new Normal template to suit your needs. > I hope you don¹t mind me wasting your time. I also hope I am not abusing the > system. But I DO enjoy these kind of discussions, as you can see. You're absolutely not abusing the system. And we enjoy these discussions as much as you or we wouldn't be here :-). Signature***Please always reply to the newsgroup!*** Beth Rosengard MacOffice MVP Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/index.htm> (If using Safari, hit Refresh once or twice or use another browser.) Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org> Dear Beth, Aha, that's all what it is about to let Word create a template? Simple enough. That connection did not occur to me. Thank you! And also thank you for your re-assuring words re: system abuse. As you may have noticed, I am only an occasional visitor and was afraid that with my never ending questions and occasionally gliding into some sort of philosophical discourse I would create a problem for you folks in the MVP world. Your friendly attitude makes these dialogues enjoyable indeed .. And adds a human touch. To you all, following this thread, have a nice day! I plan to shut up until I run into a new mental block. Yours, Rudolf (smiling mightily) Beth Rosengard wrote on 11/10/05 2:37 AM > Hi Rudolf, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > You're absolutely not abusing the system. And we enjoy these discussions as > much as you or we wouldn't be here :-). Just as a follow-up question to this thread: if I want to distribute a Normal template to all users in my company, how do I go about doing this if it seems the advice is not to create a Normal template and replace the existing file? If a "master" Normal template has been created by Word, modified to requirements, and saved, does this mean that it is a satisfactory Normal template to copy and replace that of other users? There are no concerns about toolbar or other customisations at the individual level here really, it is about having a consistent set of styles available without having to open other template documents. Any views? Nick > Just as a follow-up question to this thread: if I want to distribute a > Normal template to all users in my company, how do I go about doing [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Any views? What you need is a global template. Lock all your summer goodness in one of those, and distribute as you may. Fix all the user machines to use it. Sorry about the lack of detail, I did mine ages ago in an earlier version. If help doesn't, ask again. I *think* I co-erced a known good normal to become the global template, I called it "From Normal 17-Apr-2004" so there is a good chance that I did, but I can't remember how. Clive's "Bend Word to Your Will" has some useful recipes. tantalizing clues available here: http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/MacWordHomePage.htm Actually, most of what you want can be done with an ordinary template, as long as you can convince all your users to make that their starting point in the project gallery. In my experience, that is like herding cats. SignatureTo de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 Hi Nick, Everything Elliott said is correct but I'm going to elaborate for a minute. There's nothing wrong, in principle, in customizing the Normal template and opening new documents based on it. In practice, however, it's not so simple. Word uses Normal as a sort of "scratch pad" for all kinds of things. It is constantly writing to and saving Normal. The more customizing you do, the more complex Normal becomes and the more likely it is to become corrupt. Corrupt Normal templates are fairly common and you can't fix them when this happens. You have to trash them (or rename them temporarily) and allow Word to create a new Normal when you relaunch it. If you've heavily customized your old Normal, you have to then spend time transferring over your customizations using Organizer. And when it comes to customization of the standard toolbars in Normal, you'll lose them altogether (which is why you should always create custom toolbars; they *can* be transferred using Organizer). That's why Elliott recommended creating your own Custom (or Global) Template and opening new documents from it via the Project Gallery. Custom templates do not seem to corrupt (because Word isn't writing to them constantly). You can learn a lot more about custom templates not only from Clive's document, but from the following excellent article: <http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/GlobalTemplate.htm> (If using Safari, you'll have to hit Refresh a couple of times; better to use another browser.) HTH Signature***Please always reply to the newsgroup!*** Beth Rosengard MacOffice MVP Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/index.htm> (If using Safari, hit Refresh once or twice or use another browser.) Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org> On 11/10/05 9:23 AM, in article 1131643406.649863.139440@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com, "nickb" <nick.bell@goodcorporation.com> wrote: > Just as a follow-up question to this thread: if I want to distribute a > Normal template to all users in my company, how do I go about doing [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Nick |
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