Two Issues: List Auto-Indenting and Backspace Formatting

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Jinoo Hwang - 30 Oct 2005 21:15 GMT

Despite due diligence on my part, I have been unable to resolve a couple
annoying issues I run into on a daily basis, ones I¹ve tried to just live
with...until now. The basics: I have a brand new G4 17² PB running Mac OS
10.4.2 and using Office for Mac 2004 (Education Version). The issues:

1. List Abnormally Auto-Indenting
(a) When I want to start a new list, I will just type ³1.(space)(text)² and
press return. In a fresh new document, the list will indent normally. In
some of my old documents, the list will indent abnormally, usually
excessively
out to the right.

(b) Also, sometimes in conjunction with above problem and sometime alone,
numbering will continue from the previous list. How do I have it so that
numbering will restart for new lists without having to option+mouse on the
list and selecting ³restart numbering.²

2. Mysterious Formatting
I will be to the far left of one line, backspace to next line up, and
formatting of entire line I¹ve backspaced up to changes (usually to some
font/size/etc dissimilar to original formatting or to formatting from line
below. Intermittent, unpredictable.

Reply to this Message

Beth Rosengard - 01 Nov 2005 22:57 GMT

Hi Jinoo,

I'm not sure I understand completely so let me ask for clarification. See
below.

On 10/30/05 1:15 PM, in article BF8A77FE.B21B%jinoo@uoregon.edu, "Jinoo
Hwang" <jinoo@uoregon.edu> wrote:

> Despite due diligence on my part, I have been unable to resolve a couple
> annoying issues I run into on a daily basis, ones I¹ve tried to just live
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> some of my old documents, the list will indent abnormally, usually excessively
> out to the right.

Do you mean that when you open an old document, a list which used to be
properly indented is now over-indented? Or that when you add a new item to
a pre-existing list, the new item over-indents?

What version of Word was used to generate these old documents?

> (b) Also, sometimes in conjunction with above problem and sometime alone,
> numbering will continue from the previous list. How do I have it so that
> numbering will restart for new lists without having to option+mouse on the
> list and selecting ³restart numbering.²

When you say option+mouse, do you mean control+click? Regardless, there has
to be some way of letting Word know that you want to start a new list rather
than continue the old one. The only other way I know to do it is by using
the Format> Bullets & Numbering menu and that's a lot more involved than the
way you're already doing it.

> 2. Mysterious Formatting
> I will be to the far left of one line, backspace to next line up, and
> formatting of entire line I¹ve backspaced up to changes (usually to some
> font/size/etc dissimilar to original formatting or to formatting from line
> below. Intermittent, unpredictable.

The formatting for each paragraph is contained in the paragraph mark (called
a pilcrow) that directly follows the last character in the paragraph. This
is a little hard to describe but bear with me.

First, turn on the Show/Hide formatting tool. Now type two short
paragraphs. Change the font of the second paragraph to something else.

Next, place the cursor immediately after the last period in the second
paragraph and start backspacing. When you get to the pilcrow that follows
the *first* paragraph delete it so it is replaced by the pilcrow that
originally followed the second paragraph. The moment you do this, you
should see the font of the first paragraph change because it is now picking
up its formatting from the second paragraph's pilcrow.

So ... the way to avoid having this happen is to make sure you don't delete
the first paragraph's pilcrow (or that you DO delete the one belonging to
the second paragraph).

I hope this makes sense.

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Beth Rosengard
MacOffice MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/index.htm>
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Jinoo Hwang - 05 Nov 2005 00:48 GMT

Thank you Beth. Regarding your response/questions under:

1a.
When I try to start a new list as described in my original post, the new
list item, on the new list I want to create over-indents. I'm using Office
for Mac 2004 (Education Version) = Word 2004.

1b.
Is there any way to have it just restart numbering on a new list by default,
rather than having to go through this extra hoop?

2.
Kill bad "pilcrows"...roger that.

Let me konow if there is any other info that might be helpful to you in
helping me get this bullet point issue resolved.

Thanks,
Jinoo

> Hi Jinoo,
>
[quoted text clipped - 58 lines]
>
> I hope this makes sense.

Reply to this Message

John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh] - 07 Nov 2005 11:44 GMT

Hi Jinoo:

OK, the answer to your question is: yes, there is a way, but it would
involve you deciding to use advanced bullets and numbering based on styles.

You are using Word's Intellisense feature that deduces that you want to do
bullets and numbering and uses AutoFormat to put it in for you. While this
is simple, it's not perfect.

One thing you may need top be aware of is that bullets and numbering in Word
are stored locally in the document. When you pick up a document created in
an earlier version of Word and attempt to impose your newer indenting styles
on it, there will be a mis-match, and that's what you are seeing.

The "default" setting is to restart numbering. However, on an old document,
a different setting may have been made, and if it has, it will persist.

Have a cruise of this site:
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/index.html

There's a lot of good stuff there on how to use style-based formatting. If
you intend to do a lot of work in Word during your career, this is WELL
worth learning. It will take you a few weeks to get the hang of it, but you
will save huge amounts of time in future :-) Of course, Shauna is writing
about PC Word, but you won't have any trouble converting what she says: the
two products are very similar.

Hope this helps

On 5/11/05 10:48 AM, in article BF913343.C15E%jinoo@uoregon.edu, "Jinoo
Hwang" <jinoo@uoregon.edu> wrote:

> Thank you Beth. Regarding your response/questions under:
>
[quoted text clipped - 78 lines]
>>
>> I hope this makes sense.

Signature

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <john@mcghie.name>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

Reply to this Message

Jinoo Hwang - 11 Nov 2005 18:28 GMT

Thanks John. Funny thing is that it will happen within a single document,
created within one version of Word. In a fresh document, I will start a
numbered list, Intellisense will pick this up and Autoformat a normally
indented numbered list. My numbered lists will indent normally for awhile.
But then, later on down the document upon starting another numbered list, it
will unexpectedly indent abnormally. Again, this occurs within a single
document created and modified within one version of Word.

> Hi Jinoo:
>
[quoted text clipped - 110 lines]
>>>
>>> I hope this makes sense.

Reply to this Message

John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh] - 12 Nov 2005 11:15 GMT

Hi Jinoo:

Yeah. It happens :-) The Numbered List Mechanism is very complex.

Use style-based formatting as suggested by Shauna and you won't get the
problem. If you keep using AutoFormat, you will keep getting the problem:
AutoFormat is just not smart enough to work reliably with Word's numbering.

Cheers

On 12/11/05 5:28 AM, in article BF9A22D4.C9B4%jinoo@uoregon.edu, "Jinoo
Hwang" <jinoo@uoregon.edu> wrote:

> Thanks John. Funny thing is that it will happen within a single document,
> created within one version of Word. In a fresh document, I will start a
[quoted text clipped - 124 lines]
>>>>
>>>> I hope this makes sense.

Signature

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Mac Forum / Applications / Word / November 2005

Two Issues: List Auto-Indenting and Backspace Formatting