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Mac Forum / Applications / Word / October 2005Hanging indent?
Hi-- I'm starting to do some research papers, and have had trouble setting a "hanging indent" for footnotes and bibliography entries. I'm sure there's a way to do this, but it's not obvious to me. Hopefully someone here on the newsgroup can tell me where to look, etc. I'm using Word 2004, with the latest OS 10.4--on an original flat panel iMac (800 MHz), with 1 gig RAM. Thanks, Jean in VA Hi Jean, The short answer is: Format>Paragraph>Indents & Spacing> and under Indentation, click on the double arrows next to the Special box and choose Hanging. The longer answer is: You really should learn how to set styles for each type of paragraph you will need to use. That's the very best way to assure consistent formatting for your documents. Look up Styles in the Word Help for starters and when you have the time, download Clive Huggan's "Bend Word To Your Will" here: <http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/Bend/BendWord.htm>. (If using Safari, you'll have to click Refresh a couple times; easier to use a different browser.)  Signature***Please always reply to the newsgroup!*** Beth Rosengard MacOffice MVP Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/MacWordNew/index.htm> (If using Safari, hit Refresh once or twice or use another browser.) Entourage Help Page: <http://www.entourage.mvps.org> On 10/19/05 3:15 PM, in article BF7C3DBF.183CF%jsbarto1@cox.net, "Jean Barto" <jsbarto1@cox.net> wrote: > Hi-- > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Jean in VA Hi Beth, looks like you were several minutes faster than me. Strangely enough, we seem to have written nearly identical answers, starting from the paragraph formatting down to the suggestion to learn how to use styles. Uncanny... Michel On 19.10.05 23:51, in article BF7C1C1B.21606%bethrosengard@earthlink.net, > Hi Jean, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > (If using Safari, you'll have to click Refresh a couple times; easier to use > a different browser.) As I said the last time this happened, not so long ago ... Great minds think alike ;-). Beth On 10/19/05 4:02 PM, in article BF7C8F23.ED35%m_bintener@hotmail.com, > Hi Beth, > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> (If using Safari, you'll have to click Refresh a couple times; easier to use >> a different browser.) Hello Jean in VA, Further to Beth's post (and thank you both -- this prompted me to look at my master copy of "Bend Word to Your Will" and improve my coverage of footnotes). You'll have found that Word inserts a space after the footnote reference number when it opens the footnote window, Jean. If you just start typing after this space, the result is quite untidy, because the footnote number is contained within the left footnote text margin. The answer is to specify a style for footnotes that includes a hanging indent. If you do so, you will probably want to delete the space that follows the footnote number before keying a tab followed by the text of the footnote (although if you have specified generous spacing for the hanging indent you could leave the space and simply key in the tab). My set of specs for footnotes which includes the hanging indent and has the footnote ref number on the same baseline as the footnote text is as follows (for text in Times New Roman -- slight changes are necessary in other fonts such as Arial): [the style you base everything else on -- Normal for many people, but most document professionals don't make it Normal] + font 10 pt, raised by 3 pt, indent left 0 cm, hanging 0.53 cm, line spacing at least 12 pt, space before 6 pt. More is on page 140 of "Bend Word to Your Will" as per Beth's post. An intro to styles starts on page 79. [Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. Be sure to read the front end so you can use the document to best advantage and select the right settings for reading it.] Cheers, Clive Huggan in Canberra, Australia (My time zone is at least 7 hours different from the US and Europe, so my follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed) ============================================================ * A SUGGESTION -- WAIT FOR CONSIDERED ADVICE: If you post a question, keep re-visiting the newsgroup for several days after the first response comes in. Sometimes it takes a few responses before the best or complete solution is proposed; sometimes you'll be asked for further information so that a better answer can be provided. Good tips about getting the best out of posting are at http://word.mvps.org/FindHelp/Posting.htm (if you use Safari you may see a blank page and have to hit the circular arrow icon -- "Reload the current page" -- a few times). * AVOID SPAM: To avoid spam directed at contributors of newsgroups, you can set up a "send-only" dummy e-mail account. Full guidelines are at http://www.entourage.mvps.org/tips/tip019.html ============================================================ > Hi Jean, > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > (If using Safari, you'll have to click Refresh a couple times; easier to use > a different browser.) > Hello Jean in VA, > > Further to Beth's post (and thank you both -- this prompted me to look at my > master copy of "Bend Word to Your Will" and improve my coverage of > footnotes). I thought it would be a good time to clean up my footnote text style too, so I went back to Bend.. > You'll have found that Word inserts a space after the footnote reference > number when it opens the footnote window, Jean. If you just start typing [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > (for text in Times New Roman -- slight changes are necessary in other fonts > such as Arial): > [the style you base everything else on -- Normal for many people, but most > document professionals don't make it Normal] + font 10 pt, raised by 3 pt, > indent left 0 cm, hanging 0.53 cm, line spacing at least 12 pt, space before > 6 pt. I could not make the raised thing work in the style definition in Word 2004. Raising the text in there raised the number as well. My grizzle was both the size of the footnote number and its alignment. There does not seem to be any way of changing that and the unwanted space on a permanent basis. It is as though Word has formatted it 'by hand'. That is close to a design mishap. There is a footnote reference character style, but Word just 'pulls on the superscript button from behind the screen' to format the number in the footnote itself. There should be a footnote number character style to match. Which led me to a neat workaround. Select all the footnotes and hit 'normal for style' aka ctrl-space. Proper sized footnote numbers aligned with the text. It is not the proper way to set footnote numbers, but it suits me fine. If you set footnotes smaller than body, and then superscript the footnote number, the numbers come out too small, although hanging them is a huge improvement. I might experiment with a 'fix footnote' macro to do a whole document in bulk if I can't find a way to convince Word to set the footnote numbers better and to forget about inserting the space. SignatureTo de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 <snip> > > [the style you base everything else on -- Normal for many people, but most > > document professionals don't make it Normal] + font 10 pt, raised by 3 pt, [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > in bulk if I can't find a way to convince Word to set the footnote > numbers better and to forget about inserting the space. I have to confess. I lied. The footnote number in the footnote does come with "Footnote Reference" character style. Somehow I mis-selected one when writing my rant above. That mental picture of a horrid little paperclip scrabbling at the superscript button from inside the machine just ain't true. It's off inserting an unbidden space. SignatureTo de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 On 21/10/05 11:33 PM, in article 211020051433118501%nospam@yrl.co.uk, >> Hello Jean in VA, >> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > I could not make the raised thing work in the style definition in Word > 2004. Raising the text in there raised the number as well. I did all this in Word 2001 and it all came over to 2004. Does that mean you ended up with the footnote text raised 3 points and the "downstairs" footnote ref number by 6 points? In mine the footnote text is raised 3 points to match the ref number. > My grizzle was both the size of the footnote number Hmm, I've just realized how context-rich my comments have been (in "Bend Word to Your Will", interestingly, I don't actually show the specs -- I just advise checking the format in which the footnotes are done in the document itself, and mention the 3-point raised aspect. Probably I did that deliberately). Here goes: On mine the footnote ref number is the default font at 7 point. I *think* this is the default size, but it's so long ago that I did this, I can't remember -- and I can't call my friends with out-of-the-box Word at 7 am! I'm happy with this size because it looks good in print -- and it's OK on the LCD screen because I have the document displayed at 125% (and in turn that's because I prefer 11 point Times New Roman at a slightly open 13 point line spacing -- easier to read hundreds of pages). I've learned to distinguish between "5" and "8" in footnotes, which look very similar at that size. > and its alignment. The footnote ref number is presumably raised 3 points at the bottom of the page because that's what it's raised by in the body text. The space is in there because the same person who coded *both* instances at "raised by 3 points" had to get out to lunch that day and hasn't been back since. I reported it to MacBU in 2001, but I suspect it's in the WinOffice area that it has to be changes. And yes, I can't believe either that a serious word processor can't provide correct formatting of footnotes out of the box ... FYI, my sequence for inserting footnotes is as follows (I'm working in Normal view): Command-Option-f to insert a footnote reference number (a default IIRC) Delete (which I do without thinking now) Tab Type the footnote Control-Shift-c to close the footnote pane (a default IIRC). > There does not seem to be any way of changing that and the unwanted > space on a permanent basis. It is as though Word has formatted it 'by > hand'. That is close to a design mishap. Close? Watch out, Elliott -- wanton rosiness like that is dangerously Panglossian ;-) > There is a footnote reference > character style, but Word just 'pulls on the superscript button from [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > 'normal for style' aka ctrl-space. Proper sized footnote numbers > aligned with the text. Thanks, Elliott. I've just added that comment in "Bend Word" for people who want the downstairs footnote ref number the same size as the footnote text. > It is not the proper way to set footnote > numbers, but it suits me fine. If you set footnotes smaller than body, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > in bulk if I can't find a way to convince Word to set the footnote > numbers better and to forget about inserting the space. Now that would be useful! Clive ===== > On 21/10/05 11:33 PM, in article 211020051433118501%nospam@yrl.co.uk, > > I could not make the raised thing work in the style definition in Word > > 2004. Raising the text in there raised the number as well. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > "downstairs" footnote ref number by 6 points? In mine the footnote text is > raised 3 points to match the ref number. exactly. > > My grizzle was both the size of the footnote number > > Hmm, <snip> > The footnote ref number is presumably raised 3 points at the bottom of the > page because that's what it's raised by in the body text. Yes. I later discovered that the number in the footnote did have "footnote reference" character style. > The space is in there because the same person who coded *both* instances at > "raised by 3 points" had to get out to lunch that day and hasn't been back [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Type the footnote > Control-Shift-c to close the footnote pane (a default IIRC). Ooh, thanks for ctrl-shift-c. I didn't know that. > > There does not seem to be any way of changing that and the unwanted > > space on a permanent basis. It is as though Word has formatted it 'by > > hand'. That is close to a design mishap. > > Close? Watch out, Elliott -- wanton rosiness like that is dangerously > Panglossian ;-) In this "Best of all possible Words"? Sorry Beth, Clive likes to play straight man. He sets 'em up, I knock 'em down. > > There is a footnote reference > > character style, but Word just 'pulls on the superscript button from [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Thanks, Elliott. I've just added that comment in "Bend Word" for people who > want the downstairs footnote ref number the same size as the footnote text. I lied, as you now know. Both numbers are in "footnote reference" character style. I think it would have been nicer to have a separate character style for the number in front of the footnote. Then we could have had the control we needed. Of course a tab instead of the space would have met the needs of users that had heard of hanging indents. > > It is not the proper way to set footnote > > numbers, but it suits me fine. If you set footnotes smaller than body, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Now that would be useful! I'll put it on the list. Look at that! First Voltaire, now Gilbert and Sullivan! SignatureTo de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 On 22/10/05 8:34 AM, in article 211020052334106081%nospam@yrl.co.uk, <snip> >>> There does not seem to be any way of changing that and the unwanted >>> space on a permanent basis. It is as though Word has formatted it 'by [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > In this "Best of all possible Words"? <snip> >>> I might experiment with a 'fix footnote' macro to do a whole document >>> in bulk if I can't find a way to convince Word to set the footnote [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Look at that! First Voltaire, now Gilbert and Sullivan! Forgive us our idiosyncrasies, people. Such literary exchanges are commonplace in everyday Australian discourse, but we normally expunge evidence of our rich cultural heritage from software newsgroups ... ;-)) CH === On 10/21/05 3:34 PM, in article 211020052334106081%nospam@yrl.co.uk, >> Close? Watch out, Elliott -- wanton rosiness like that is dangerously >> Panglossian ;-) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Sorry Beth, Clive likes to play straight man. He sets 'em up, I knock > 'em down. <eg> > Look at that! First Voltaire, now Gilbert and Sullivan! Gilbert & Sullivan Online [Author unknown, to the tune of The Major General's Song] I am the very model of a Newsgroup personality. I intersperse obscenity with tedious banality. Addresses I have plenty of, both genuine and ghosted too, On all the countless newsgroups that my drivel is cross-posted to. Your bandwidth I will fritter with my whining and my snivelling, And you're the one who pays the bill, downloading all my drivelling. My enemies are numerous, and no-one would be blaming you For cracking my head open after I've been rudely flaming you. I hate to lose an argument (by now I should be used to it). I wouldn't know a valid point if I was introduced to it. My learning is extensive but consists of mindless trivia, Designed to fan my ego, which is larger than Bolivia. The comments that I vomit forth, disguised as jest and drollery, Are really just an exercise in unremitting trollery. I say I'm frank and forthright, but that's merely lies and vanity, The gibberings of one who's at the limits of his sanity. If only I could get a life, as many people tell me to; If only Mom could find a circus freak-show she could sell me to; If I go off to Zanzibar to paint the local scenery; If I lose all my fingers in a mishap with machinery; If I survive to twenty, which is somewhat problematical; If what I post was more mature, or slightly more grammatical; If I could learn to spell a bit, and maybe even punctuate; Would I still be the loathsome and objectionable punk you hate? But while I have this tiresome urge to prance around and show my face, It simply isn't safe for normal people here in cyberspace. To stick me in Old Sparky and turn on the electricity Would be a fitting punishment for my egocentricity. I always have the last word; so, with uttermost finality, That's all from me, the model of a Newsgroup personality. On 24/10/05 4:36 AM, in article BF812652.2193D%bethrosengard@earthlink.net, > On 10/21/05 3:34 PM, in article 211020052334106081%nospam@yrl.co.uk, > [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > I always have the last word; so, with uttermost finality, > That's all from me, the model of a Newsgroup personality. Thanks, Beth! What a hoot! Clive ====== Hi, there are two ways you can do this: 1) use the ruler. If the ruler is visible, you should see three blue icons on it, one triangle pointing downwards, one triangle pointing upwards and a blue box. Select your text, then drag the lower triangle on the ruler to the right. That will create a hanging indent. 2) use the Format Paragraph menu. Select your text, go to Format>Paragraph. In the Indentation section of the window that shows up, click on the Special dropdown list and select "Hanging". Enter a value in the textfield right next to it. Since you're going to do some research papers, you should take the time to learn how to use styles in Word documents. You'll benefit from that, and you will be able to set up a paragraph style for your bibliography/footnotes so that the hanging indent will be applied quasi automatically. Have a look at this website for a good introduction: http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/ Note that even though this website keeps making references to the Windows version of Word, most things will also apply to the Mac version. Michel On 19.10.05 23:15, in article BF7C3DBF.183CF%jsbarto1@cox.net, "Jean Barto" <jsbarto1@cox.net> wrote: > Hi-- > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Jean in VA |
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