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Mac Forum / Applications / Word / May 2008Monkey wrench in Word 2008?
This is not easy to describe, so bear with me. When editing text, I often forward-select and delete entire strings of text in order to generate a new sentence. Say I'm starting with (note the two paragraph marks): Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet^p ^p Fusce pede purus, consequat id. With the cursor in "amet", I then forward-select and delete (again, note the paragraph marks) "^p^pFusce pede purus" in order to generate this new sentence: Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consequat id. Here's the problem: under Word 2004, this operation correctly deletes both paragraph marks and yields the above sentence in one line, as expected. Under Word 2008, however, the exact same operation will randomly fail to delete a paragraph mark, resulting in a broken sentence, like so: Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet^p , consequat id. Which is no good and requires extra work to fix. Please try this and tell me it's just my setup and not another monkey wrench into my work. By forward select, you mean hold down shift while moving the arrow? Yes, I see this too (SP1 not installed). The method of selection does not matter, but it only happens when the delete includes a paragraph mark, no problem deleting multiple lines within the same paragraph. Please report to MacBU via Help | Send Feedback--but add version numbers. > This is not easy to describe, so bear with me. > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Which is no good and requires extra work to fix. Please try this and > tell me it's just my setup and not another monkey wrench into my work. On May 21, 8:52 pm, Daiya Mitchell <daiyaNOS...@mvps.org.INVALID> wrote: > By forward select, you mean hold down shift while moving the arrow? My preferred method is Shift-Command-Right Arrow, but as you correctly note, the method doesn't matter. > Yes, I see this too (SP1 not installed). The method of selection does > not matter, but it only happens when the delete includes a paragraph > mark, no problem deleting multiple lines within the same paragraph. Correct, which is why my example draws attention to the paragraph marks. I first noticed this issue before I applied the 12.1.0 update. It continues unchanged. > Please report to MacBU via Help | Send Feedback--but add version numbers. Not again... :-( They probably hate my guts by now. >> Please report to MacBU via Help | Send Feedback--but add version numbers. >> > > Not again... :-( They probably hate my guts by now. > Nah. Consider that they probably get a lot of bile and comments like "I can't believe you REMOVED the ability to cut text in Word 2008!" [because the scissor icon is not on the toolbar], plus hysteria about "[whatever missing feature or possible bug] is an MS conspiracy to kill MacOffice!" and I'm sure they love a relatively dispassionate, detailed, specific, *reproducible* bug report. Daiya I agree that this is a nuisance - if it's selected it ought to be deleted, so don't hesitate to submit it as Daiya suggested. I don't have a fix, but this workaround may be helpful... Select one character more than you need to delete, then type that character rather than using the delete key. I.E., in your example: Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet^p ^p Fusce pede purus, consequat id. Select from "amet" up to & including the comma, then type a comma rather than pressing delete. No additional keystrokes & it seems to work fine here if an actual character is at the end of the string. A Space at the end of the string is a bit more of a challenge. Select starting with the space preceding the unwanted content & including the space following it, then press Space to make the edit. HTH |:>) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac On 5/21/08 9:14 PM, in article 9449a7f2-506e-4f9b-928d-fb90aa89cace@56g2000hsm.googlegroups.com, > On May 21, 8:52 pm, Daiya Mitchell <daiyaNOS...@mvps.org.INVALID> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > Not again... :-( They probably hate my guts by now. Maybe its all that Greek. ;-) I have hard enough time with the good old US English Language. ;-) > I agree that this is a nuisance - if it's selected it ought to be deleted, > so don't hesitate to submit it as Daiya suggested. I don't have a fix, but [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] >>> Please report to MacBU via Help | Send Feedback--but add version numbers. >> Not again... :-( They probably hate my guts by now.  Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling 616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868 Martinsville Va 24112 |pjones@kimbanet.com, ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet ------------------------------------------------------------------------ If it's "fixed", don't "break it"! mailto:pjones@kimbanet.com <http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm> <http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm> <http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html> <http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm> <http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm> <http://www.vpea.org> > Maybe its all that Greek. ;-) I have hard enough time with the good old > US English Language. ;-) May be all Greek to you, but it's fake Latin, actually. ;-) On 23/5/08 4:27 AM, in article 70ffa56d-e3a5-4e79-b4eb-38f1b99e8412@34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, >> Maybe its all that Greek. ;-) I have hard enough time with the good old >> US English Language. ;-) > > May be all Greek to you, but it's fake Latin, actually. ;-) Commonly this "meaningless" text has been known as "greeking", hence "greek" (but not "Greek"). There are some learned people down in [or way up in, in my case] Martinsville, Virginia ... ;-) Cheers, Clive Huggan Canberra, Australia (My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the Americas and Europe, so my follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed) ==================================================== Oh Frabjous Day, O Bliss, O Joy.... At LAST I have caught the venerable Huggan in a Terminological Inexactitude :-) "Fake Latin" is known in the printing industry as either "Dummy Text" or "Placeholder Text". "Greeking" is the process of producing a dummy display that "resembles" text when the font has been reduced to a size that is not readable on a computer display. The system does not attempt to render the characters: instead it shows a line of garbled shapes the correct height and length, but it's not text. {Ahhhh.... That felt so good....} Don't any of you dare contradict me, I deserve my moment of bliss :-) On 23/05/08 7:22 AM, in article C45C283B.38761%REMOVETHISoffice@ANDTHISstrategists.com.au, "Clive Huggan" <REMOVETHISoffice@ANDTHISstrategists.com.au> wrote: > On 23/5/08 4:27 AM, in article > 70ffa56d-e3a5-4e79-b4eb-38f1b99e8412@34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed) > ==================================================== SignatureDon't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/ Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to. John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac Nhulunbuy, NT, Australia. mailto:john@mcghie.name No contradiction - I must, however, express my surprise at the extended duration required for the crouching tiger to pounce.The question now is.... Did the prey intentionally bait the predator in order to draw him out? Regards |:>) Bob Jones [MVP] Office:Mac On 5/23/08 6:14 AM, in article C45CCF0A.1541C%john@mcghie.name, "John McGhie" <john@mcghie.name> wrote: > Oh Frabjous Day, O Bliss, O Joy.... > [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >> follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed) >> ==================================================== > No contradiction - I must, however, express my surprise at the extended > duration required for the crouching tiger to pounce.The question now is.... > > Did the prey intentionally bait the predator in order to draw him out? "Neque porro quisquam est qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit..." "There is no one who loves pain itself, who seeks after it and wants to have it, simply because it is pain..." Is that Cicero describing McGhie well in advance of his birth? check out http://www.lipsum.com/ ...for more detail SignatureTo de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 You think McGhie only enjoyed himself at the keyboard? He *had* to telephone me from 3,000 km away to make sure I did not miss this thread. Mind you, he also said that he was leaving the country in half an hour and had to keep the call short... I said I hoped United Airlines had selected an, er, appropriate seat for him. Then he will "love pain itself" for 13 hours. Um, that's what I get, I suppose, for not checking information that drifted into my cerebrum four decades ago. I acknowledge my sin... But it doesn't feel any better. :-\ Hang on, that looks as though m'learned friend might have looked up Wikipedia <checks up>. Hmm, OK: "Greeking is a computing term that refers to the automatic rendering of text characters as symbols or lines in the layout preview function of word processing documents, either to speed up screen display or because the graphics display capabilities of the monitor are insufficient for rendering extremely small texts." But what's this in paragraph 2?: "Another type of greeking involves inserting nonsense text or, commonly, Greek or Latin text in prototypes of visual media projects (such as in graphic and web design) to check the layout of the final version before the actual text is available, or to enhance layout assessment by eliminating the distraction of readable text. Text of this sort is known as 'greeked text', 'dummy text', or 'jabberwocky text'. Lorem ipsum is a commonly used example." No, I don't want to spoil his trip... ;-) CH === On 24/5/08 5:03 AM, in article 230520082003036783%nospam@yrl.co.uk, "Elliott Roper" <nospam@yrl.co.uk> wrote: >> No contradiction - I must, however, express my surprise at the extended >> duration required for the crouching tiger to pounce.The question now is.... [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > http://www.lipsum.com/ > ...for more detail {Chortle}, {Giggle}, {Gloat} I am in Darwin now, but I have spies everywhere :-) On 24/05/08 5:24 PM, in article C45E06D7.38800%REMOVETHISoffice@ANDTHISstrategists.com.au, "Clive Huggan" <REMOVETHISoffice@ANDTHISstrategists.com.au> wrote: > Hang on, that looks as though m'learned friend might have looked up > Wikipedia <checks up>. Hmm, OK: No, I didn't :-) Not this time :-) I have 30 years of playing around with computer-set text. The terms are not uncommon in the industry. > But what's this in paragraph 2?: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > 'dummy text', or 'jabberwocky text'. Lorem ipsum is a commonly used > example." Dummy text, greeked text, placeholder text, I can accept. But sorry: if you can read the words it is NOT "greeked" text. Greeked text is unreadable. You "might" use greeked text and dummy text for the same purpose. This thread started with a discussion of the new Microsoft templates, which use Lorem Ipsum as placeholder text. Given the confusion this cases amongst people who have not seen it before, it might have been better if they had chosen greeked text instead, in this instance. And I bow to m'lern'd Friend Elliott, who obviously payed more attention in Latin Class than I did. However, I am not sure that it is clinically accurate to describe it as "fake" Latin. I believe it's gibberish, but it's "real" Latin. In other words, each sentence is good Latin, but the entire thing does not make sense because its random bits taken from one of Cicero's speeches. Cheers SignatureDon't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/ Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to. John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac Nhulunbuy, NT, Australia. mailto:john@mcghie.name > {Chortle}, {Giggle}, {Gloat} > > I am in Darwin now, but I have spies everywhere :-) You want an award for that? <snip> > And I bow to m'lern'd Friend Elliott, who obviously payed more attention in > Latin Class than I did. However, I am not sure that it is clinically > accurate to describe it as "fake" Latin. I believe it's gibberish, but it's > "real" Latin. In other words, each sentence is good Latin, but the entire > thing does not make sense because its random bits taken from one of Cicero's > speeches. You maligned your Clive. 'twas I that researched on Wikipedia mea culpa lorem ipsum.... SignatureTo de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 Hi Bob: Well, I plead dereliction of duty... Actually, I was busy at work, so I thought I would let you guys dismiss that silly little troll whose comprehension obviously does not extend beyond double-clicking. Now the grownups are back, I figured it would be useful to come back :-) Cheers On 24/05/08 3:52 AM, in article C45C8390.3BCD2%onlygeneraltaz1@com.cast.net, > No contradiction - I must, however, express my surprise at the extended > duration required for the crouching tiger to pounce.The question now is.... [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] >>> follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed) >>> ==================================================== SignatureDon't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/ Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to. John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac Nhulunbuy, NT, Australia. mailto:john@mcghie.name >> Maybe its all that Greek. ;-) I have hard enough time with the good old >> US English Language. ;-) > > May be all Greek to you, but it's fake Latin, actually. ;-) Still looked like Greek to me, fake or not :-) Why use Fake Latin, when you could use the real thing or it variant Pig-Latin :-) Signature------------------------------------------------------------------------ Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling 616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868 Martinsville Va 24112 |pjones@kimbanet.com, ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet ------------------------------------------------------------------------ If it's "fixed", don't "break it"! mailto:pjones@kimbanet.com <http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm> <http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm> <http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html> <http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm> <http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm> <http://www.vpea.org> |
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