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Mac Forum / Applications / Virtual PC / January 2008VPC Officially Dead
Last week it was announced that VPC for the Mac 7.03 was the end of the line for the product. Microsoft will not create a patch to fix any issues with OSX 10.5 Leopard. It was reported here http://www.macobserver.com/article/2007/12/12.10.shtml It is not any surprise to me that Microsoft decided not to put any more effort in the product. There will be no more PPC Macs made and if anything a shrinking base of PPC Macs being retired as machines get older and as users purchase Intel machines. I'll continue to use VPC on my machine as I have the need to run a few Windows apps. Plus I test out Linux distros and other odd Ooperating Systems to see how they are. There are other products that work with Leopard on a PPC Mac but their emulated speed is not as good a VPC. I have iEmulator and I did test it out under Leopard and it worked fine. A bit slower than VPC but a usable product if you don't need USB. Plus it is $20 for existing VPC users. Then there are Open Source products BOCHS and QEMU one could use. > Last week it was announced that VPC for the Mac 7.03 was the end of the line > for the product. Microsoft will not create a patch to fix any issues with [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > for existing VPC users. Then there are Open Source products BOCHS and QEMU > one could use. Well, Fred, you got it WRONG again. VPC is NOT dead. Let me repeat...>VPC IS NOT DEAD!! You really do have to stop trying to kill support off for this product. Try reading the article again. Microsoft has released a statement stating that there will be no support for VPC running on a Mac that is running 10.5.x (Leopard). **VPC is STILL supported on PPC's running 10.2.8-10.4.x for VPC 7 and Mac OS 9.2.2, 10.1.5, 10.2.1- 10.4.x for VPC 6 In article <753e57eb-9193-44fb-aa10-e6f3e3b55f2f@18g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > > Last week it was announced that VPC for the Mac 7.03 was the end of the line > > for the product. Microsoft will not create a patch to fix any issues with [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > **VPC is STILL supported on PPC's running 10.2.8-10.4.x for VPC 7 and > Mac OS 9.2.2, 10.1.5, 10.2.1- 10.4.x for VPC 6 The "support" is really non-existant since they won't be releasing any new updates. The only real "support" is via the "help desk" / website. VirtualPC (or at least the MacOS version) has been a dead product for a while now. Helpful Harry Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) > In article > <753e57eb-9193-44fb-aa10-e6f3e3b55...@18g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > - Show quoted text - Sorry, Harry. You are also wrong. LIVE tech support is still alive and kicking. If you have a G3, G4, or G5 and you need help with VPC, AND if you are NOT running Leopard, tech support is available and will continue to be available thru 2009. In article <41537720-110e-4bfa-aea1-dcf5cf7c6d1e@i3g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > LIVE tech support is still alive and kicking. If you have a G3, G4, or > G5 and you need help with VPC, AND if you are NOT running Leopard, > tech support is available and will continue to be available thru 2009. 2010 <http://support.microsoft.com/lifecycle/search/?sort=PN&alpha=virtual%20 pc%20for%20mac> In article <41537720-110e-4bfa-aea1-dcf5cf7c6d1e@i3g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > > In article > > <753e57eb-9193-44fb-aa10-e6f3e3b55...@18g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > G5 and you need help with VPC, AND if you are NOT running Leopard, > tech support is available and will continue to be available thru 2009. I did say that the "help desk" is still there - whether live or via the web site, but realisitically the product *is* dead. Helpful Harry Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) In article <41537720-110e-4bfa-aea1-dcf5cf7c6d1e@i3g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > > In article > > <753e57eb-9193-44fb-aa10-e6f3e3b55...@18g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] > G5 and you need help with VPC, AND if you are NOT running Leopard, > tech support is available and will continue to be available thru 2009. You two are arguing at cross-purposes because you're using different senses of the word "support". One of you is talking about technical support (e.g. answering questions), the other is talking about development support (fixing bugs, adding new features). If you call Technical Support, and the problem you're having turns out to be a real problem with the program, the best they can do is suggest workarounds or provide sympathy. If there are no programmers working on the product, they can't get it fixed.  SignatureBarry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu Arlington, MA *** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group *** > In article > <41537720-110e-4bfa-aea1-dcf5cf7c6d1e@i3g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > workarounds or provide sympathy. If there are no programmers working on > the product, they can't get it fixed. And hence the product is dead. Helpful Harry Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) > And hence the product is dead. VirtualPC for Mac is DEAD, Long Live Virtual PC Technical Support! >> And hence the product is dead. > >VirtualPC for Mac is DEAD, Long Live Virtual PC Technical Support! So what is a product that a company no longer provides technical support for, if a dead product still gets techical support? A really dead product, a really, really, really dead product, an undead product, a double-dead product? It can't be dead if you can get help with it. In my experience with VPC-Mac over the past 6 years, MOST of the problems MOST users faced didn't need patches or updates, but just config help. SignatureCheers, Steve Jain, Virtual Machine MVP http://vpc.essjae.com/ I do not work for Microsoft. > >> And hence the product is dead. > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > A really dead product, a really, really, really dead product, an > undead product, a double-dead product? "Extinct" or maybe "abandonware". ;o) Helpful Harry Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) VPC 7 is as dead as a G4 or G5 PPC Mac. The owners of those would not call their systems dead. They do know that there will not be any more new PPC Macs, but that's all. If the Mac isn't dead yet then neither is VPC7. We just know that there won't be a VPC8. >> >> And hence the product is dead. >> > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Helpful Harry > Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) > VPC 7 is as dead as a G4 or G5 PPC Mac. The owners of those would not call > their systems dead. They do know that there will not be any more new PPC > Macs, but that's all. If the Mac isn't dead yet then neither is VPC7. We > just know that there won't be a VPC8. Good grief! Last time bothering with this. :o\ Some people are still using Mac Plus computers, but that doesn't make it any less of a dead product. I'm still using Virtual PC 3 on a G3 PowerMac under Mac OS 9.2 ... it doesn't mean any of that is any less of a dead product. Microsoft do still offer some suport for Virtual PC, but only as a legacy product and eventually even that support will disappear too. (It's likely that there is already little / no actual training of new staff on the Mac version of Virtual PC, and they simply look up stuff on the website.) Microsoft do not officially make or update the Mac version of Virtual PC any longer - they have officially ended the product's life, so it *IS* therefore a dead product. Helpful Harry Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) > So what is a product that a company no longer provides technical > support for, A dead, unsupported product. Not abandonware, as you still have to have a license to run it. Microsoft still owns and presumably enforces the intellectual property rights contained in these products, e.g. patents, trademarks, etc. > if a dead product still gets techical support? An end-of-life product in maintenance support. > A really dead product, a really, really, really dead product, an > undead product, a double-dead product? Software is not truly dead, until there are no runnable instances, i.e all of the original hardware is gone or even the execution environments capable of running the product are gone. Then it's pretty dead or at lest the execution bits are in deep hiberation. > It can't be dead if you can get help with it. In my experience with > VPC-Mac over the past 6 years, MOST of the problems MOST users faced > didn't need patches or updates, but just config help. You can still get help for CP/M, DOS, OS/2, Windows 98 - which are in various states of decomposition. I believe some of those products had configuration issues too. C-3PO: You will therefore be taken to the Dune Sea, and cast into the pit of Carkoon, the nesting place of the all-powerful Sarlaac. Han Solo: Doesn't sound so bad. C-3PO: In his belly you will find a new definition of pain and suffering as you are slowly digested over a thousand years. Richard: Sounds a bit like how Microsoft products die. > >> And hence the product is dead. > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > VPC-Mac over the past 6 years, MOST of the problems MOST users faced > didn't need patches or updates, but just config help. I used to work for Symantec, as a senior technical support engineer for Symantec Gateway Security and Symantec Enterprise Firewall. In 2006 they decided to discontinue the product, and laid off many of the developers. They kept some of them for bug fixing, and all the technical support staff, but made it clear that they were planning on transfering them to other products -- they expected the customers to migrate to other products as their support contracts expired, so there would be fewer support calls over time, and thus fewer support engineers needed. Most of us were not interested in hanging around, working on a dead-end product, nor were we interested in supporting any of Symantec's other products (many of my coworkers had been part of the Axent acquisition several years earlier -- they had little experience or interest in the Norton side of the company). I was one of the first to abandon ship, but several others left within months. The point of this is that even though the company may officially be providing technical support, it's likely that the quality of this support will fall off drastically. Most highly skilled engineers are interested in working on active projects. So the people you'll find at the other end of the line for a dead product will be entry-level, or people who are supporting a variety of products; either way, they're not going to be experts on this one. SignatureBarry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu Arlington, MA *** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group *** > > >> And hence the product is dead. > > > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > people who are supporting a variety of products; either way, they're not > going to be experts on this one. "Support" can stay around for decades, especially in an unofficial or semi-official form (just look at the Amiga computer) or simply in a companise web-archives, but once a company decides to stop making a product it is officially dead ... no matter what a few hard core fanatics on the Internet like to fool themselves into believing or how many largely pointless petition attempts to have that decision revoked are created. You see this all the time in the TV newsgroups - the network decides to cancel a show and all the loonies come out of the woodwork with "Save the show" petitions. :o\ Helpful Harry Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) That's a stretch. I think we are talking about support from MS in one form or another. >> > >> And hence the product is dead. >> > > [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > Helpful Harry > Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) > That's a stretch. I think we are talking about support from MS in one form > or another. But some forms of support are useful, others are just lip service. In the case of a cancelled product, it's more likely to be the latter. And it's not even cancelled products that are like this, it also often goes to products that are not part of the company's main product line. If you have Comcast as your ISP, try getting technical support for anything related to Usenet -- virtually none of the phone-line or live chat techs have even heard of it, yet it's an officially supported part of their Internet service. Part of the reason may be that they out-sourced this service several years ago, so few people in the company have had to have expertise in it. And the same thing happens with cancelled products -- if there are no developers, knowledge about the product tends to evaporate. Even if you have support techs trained on the product, there's no one they can consult with who knows details about how it works; all they know is what's in their support knowledge base, which is no help when a new problem arises. SignatureBarry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu Arlington, MA *** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group *** Maybe DEAD was the wrong word I used when I announced Microsoft's decision to no longer create patches. Regardless on how it is said we are using machines (PPC) that Apple no longer makes and a piece of software that Microsoft no longer (software) supports. I guess it is dead when I no longer use it... On 12/23/07 2:48 PM, in article 241220070848387325%helpful_harry@nom.de.plume.com, "Helpful Harry" <helpful_harry@nom.de.plume.com> wrote: >>>>> And hence the product is dead. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > Helpful Harry > Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) You are right, of course. That's the only sensible way to think about it. > Maybe DEAD was the wrong word I used when I announced Microsoft's decision > to no longer create patches. Regardless on how it is said we are using [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] >> Helpful Harry >> Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) > If you call Technical Support, and the problem you're having turns out > to be a real problem with the program, the best they can do is suggest > workarounds or provide sympathy. If there are no programmers working on > the product, they can't get it fixed. except that 7.03 came out a few months ago, over two years after the initial announcement of the intel transition. not bad for something that's dead. Virtual PC for Mac won't be dead Until this forum is dead. "That's rather scary," Said Harry and Barry. > Virtual PC for Mac won't be dead<br> > Until this forum is dead.<br> > "That's rather scary,"<br> > Said Harry and Barry. Harry can talk to Barry who talks to Harry. <:) |
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