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Mac Forum / Applications / Virtual PC / February 2007MAC BU
Do we have to wait another 10 years for ms access for mac? This should have always been a part of the office suite for mac. Who friggin' cares about entourage? Some forward thinkers you are. FYI: Making us buy unneccessary win emulators/intel macs blows goats. 9 hours. Hah! ...still perturbed. > Do we have to wait another 10 years for ms access for mac? This should have > always been a part of the office suite for mac. Who friggin' cares about [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > ...still perturbed. It's highly unlikely that Access will ever be made for the Mac. The established standard database for the Mac is FileMaker Pro (and there's a Windows version as well). Helpful Harry Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) On 2/12/07 2:43 PM, in article 130220070843315317%helpful_harry@nom.de.plume.com, "Helpful Harry" <helpful_harry@nom.de.plume.com> wrote: >> Do we have to wait another 10 years for ms access for mac? This should have >> always been a part of the office suite for mac. Who friggin' cares about [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Helpful Harry > Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) *l'arrrrgh* I thought there were two rs in harrassed... > On 2/12/07 2:43 PM, in article > 130220070843315317%helpful_harry@nom.de.plume.com, "Helpful Harry" [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > I thought there were two rs in harrassed... Not according to the dictionary in my email application. There are two r's in embarrassed though. ;o) Helpful Harry Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) > Who friggin' cares about > entourage? Well at leat everybody who uses Exchange..... I could ask who cares about Access. I personnaly don't like it so much. Under windows I either use 4D or FileMaker Pro who already make 99.9% of the database software market on Mac..... Corentin  Signature--- Mac:MS MVP (Francophone) http://www.cortig.net/wordpress/ --- http://www.mvps.org - http://mvp.support.microsoft.com MVPs are not MS employees - Les MVP ne travaillent pas pour MS Remove "NoSpam" to e-mail me - Retirez "NoSpam" pour m'écrire > Do we have to wait another 10 years for ms access for mac? This should have > always been a part of the office suite for mac. Who friggin' cares about [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > ...still perturbed. Access is still a glorified Excel. Filemaker Pro is a better program anyway. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" but...but...but... why didn't mac bu just keep the outlook name for entourage (no, that isn't what i meant, still...)? what i mean is why create only SOME programs for mac? if you're going to do something different in this vein, the fact that you did it is different enough. (putting a twist on things like changing outlook's name to 'entourage' impedes the chi.) and just because filemaker pro is out there is no excuse for the mac bu to quit at the typical four programs. apple has iwork (now) and some people still swear by word perfect, but the mac bu created mac:word, powerpoint, et c., but no access. ??? and now no more vpc. *waah!* > but...but...but... > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > *waah!* I think Access uses proprietary code that only works on PCs. To do a Mac version would have meant reinventing the program. With competition from the excellent Filemaker Pro, I'm sure they decided to forego that one. I don't get the feeling that the Mac BU is staffed very robustly, anyway. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" > but...but...but... > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > perfect, but the mac bu created mac:word, powerpoint, et c., but no > access. ??? and now no more vpc. Microsoft didn't change Outlook's name to Entourage. If you're familiar with large corporations then you'll understand that Microsoft is really a bunch of different business units, each with their own budgets, goals, etc. Outlook 98 and 2001 for Mac were developed by the Exchange Server group. Actually, it was developed outside of Microsoft *through* the Exchange Server group. When this group decided to cease development the code was not provided to Microsoft. The Macintosh Business Unit already had Entourage and they realized that Mac users still needed an Exchange client. Therefore they took what they already had and added Exchange functionality to it. As for Access, the MacBU has decided that currently not enough demand exists to warrant porting Access to the Mac platform. Alternatives such as 4D and FileMaker already exist. Microsoft would probably not make money with a Mac Access product. VPC is pretty much now in a similar situation. Why should Microsoft develop it when Apple, Parallels, Codeweavers and others are already releasing products to allow folks to use Windows and Windows apps on the Mac platform. The market is saturated now with very competitively priced products. Hope this helps! bill SignatureWilliam M. Smith (Microsoft Interop MVP - Mac/Windows) On Feb 14, 12:57 am, William Smith <meckli...@REM0VETH1S.comcast.net> wrote: > In article <1171351077.467335.131...@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > William M. Smith > (Microsoft Interop MVP - Mac/Windows) thanks, big willie. *le sigh* fcuk me...timing is everything. here's a thought: if you no longer want to make and/or support a product (based on sales, new(er) technology, et c.), then give out what you have left in inventory, fc-fs, and write it off on your tax return as a 'donation' or 'gift'. NRN "And now, back to our regularly-scheduled program." '-ing.' > here's a thought: if you no longer want to make and/or support a > product (based on sales, new(er) technology, et c.), then give out > what you have left in inventory, fc-fs, and write it off on your tax > return as a 'donation' or 'gift'. Some companies do exactly that ... occasionally. A few years ago Symantec, as an example, decided that it was no longer worthwhile continuing with Think Pascal, so they made it available as a free download on their website. Helpful Harry Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) On Feb 14, 3:52 pm, Helpful Harry <helpful_ha...@nom.de.plume.com> wrote: > In article <1171442010.454258.301...@l53g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Helpful Harry > Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) Have you not noticed that Microsoft has made Virtual PC 2004 available as a free download? As for the VPC for Mac version, there are still a LOT of people who have G3, G4, and G5 machines. Parallels, BootCamp, etc. will NOT work on those, so VPC for Mac is still a viable product for the time being. Maybe Apple should consider a free trade in of your old Mac for a new Intel model and we can get rid of VPC forever? > On Feb 14, 3:52 pm, Helpful Harry <helpful_ha...@nom.de.plume.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > for the time being. Maybe Apple should consider a free trade in of > your old Mac for a new Intel model and we can get rid of VPC forever? Not a "free trade-in", but Apple has done trade-in discount deals in the past ... for both old Macs and Windows machines. Helpful Harry Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) On Feb 15, 3:58 pm, Helpful Harry <helpful_ha...@nom.de.plume.com> wrote: > In article <1171567084.730387.230...@k78g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > - Show quoted text - I was being facetious, Harry. Point is: many people cannot afford the exhorbitant prices for the new Intel Mac......even including a discount for their old machine. > On Feb 15, 3:58 pm, Helpful Harry <helpful_ha...@nom.de.plume.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > exhorbitant prices for the new Intel Mac......even including a > discount for their old machine. LOL "exhorbitant"? Macs are cheaper than they've ever been. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" > In article <1171582857.149698.14...@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > - Show quoted text - My point exactly!!! They have ALWAYS been expensive. > > In article <1171582857.149698.14...@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, > > [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > My point exactly!!! They have ALWAYS been expensive. Compared to the PC kits? Gimme a break. I have a couple friends who love to talk about how cheap their PCs are, yet spent hours getting parts and building them. Great if you are a starving student. Macs work. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" > > > In article <1171582857.149698.14...@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, > > > > On Feb 15, 3:58 pm, Helpful Harry <helpful_ha...@nom.de.plume.com> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > building them. Great if you are a starving student. > Macs work. Macs have actually come down in price over the years, and the switch to more industry "standard" parts has helped that (eg. IDE drives). The UK MacFormat magazine did a price comparison a few months ago and came to the conculsion that Macs in general were as cheap or cheaper than an equivalent spec'ed Windows PC ... that of course is in the UK, so US prices may be a slightly different "pot of spuds". I'll see if I can dig it out over the weekend and post a brief summary. Helpful Harry Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) On 2/16/07 12:24 AM, in article 160220071824083958%helpful_harry@nom.de.plume.com, "Helpful Harry" <helpful_harry@nom.de.plume.com> wrote: >>>> In article <1171582857.149698.14...@q2g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, >>>>> On Feb 15, 3:58 pm, Helpful Harry <helpful_ha...@nom.de.plume.com> [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > Helpful Harry > Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) Please answer the following pathetic question(s), anyone. If I buy the duo core macbook [I say it WAS expensive and, at this time, macs may be tougher for some budgets only because you have to fork out the moolah all at once. All-in-all, same-same, if not MUCH BETTER than most WIN machines in the $ & features comparison.], can I load windows (any version - I still have 98se) and startup with either os at will if I don't prefer to use a virtual path/segue? I'm in the student phase now and quite comfortable using both OSs, especially since I can always reformat the macbook to complete os x in future, no? If 'yes', then I completely understand why ms kicked vpc to the curb. And no need to go on about it - a simple "of course, simpleton." will do just fine. Thanks bunches. > Please answer the following pathetic question(s), anyone. If I buy the duo > core macbook [I say it WAS expensive and, at this time, macs may be tougher [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Thanks bunches. For any Mac using an Intel chip you have four main choices for running Windows and Windows applications: - Apple's Boot Camp http://www.apple.com/bootcamp This allows you to install a version of Windows onto your Intel Mac and gives you a "dual-boot" computer where you can choose to start it in Windows or Mac OS X. This should be almost 100% compatible since you are using what is a real Windows computer, but it is still a beta test product so they may be some small hiccups with some devices and software. - Parallels Desktop http://www.parallels.com This is basically similar to Virtual PC in that it runs Windows as a sub-appilcation of the Mac OS, ie. a pretend Windows computer runs inside a Mac OS X window. This does not have 3D graphic hardware support, so is useless for things like Windows games (3D support is being worked on). - VMWare Fusion http://www.vmware.com The same as Parallels Desktop, it gives you a pretend Windows coimputer running in a Mac OS X window. Again, this doesn't have 3D graphics hardware support yet. - CrossOver http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/ This allows you to run SOME Windows applications directly in Mac OS X itself - no need to buy or install any version of Windows at all, but the software it can run is somewhat limited. Both VMWare and Parallels are faster than Virtual PC since they do not have to emulate an Intel chip. Helpful Harry Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) On 2/16/07 6:02 PM, in article 170220071202329802%helpful_harry@nom.de.plume.com, "Helpful Harry" <helpful_harry@nom.de.plume.com> wrote: >> Please answer the following pathetic question(s), anyone. If I buy the duo >> core macbook [I say it WAS expensive and, at this time, macs may be tougher [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > Helpful Harry > Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) mmmmm, bootcamp. suite > On Feb 15, 3:58 pm, Helpful Harry <helpful_ha...@nom.de.plume.com> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > I was being facetious, Harry. I know you were, but there have been such things happen. :o) > Point is: many people cannot afford the > exhorbitant prices for the new Intel Mac......even including a > discount for their old machine. I also know this - I'm still using a beige G3 which really only shows it's age on some websites that use new-fangled bits or (obviously) the inability to run new games. :o) Most of my work is done for non-profit organisations or individuals at home who are still using old G3 iMacs, although one did get a couple of new Intel iMacs about half-way through last year (one was a replacement for an earlier G5 iMac that had been stolen). Helpful Harry Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) > > On Feb 15, 3:58 pm, Helpful Harry <helpful_ha...@nom.de.plume.com> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > new Intel iMacs about half-way through last year (one was a replacement > for an earlier G5 iMac that had been stolen). I've often heard that you folks overseas pay a higher price than here in the U.S. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" > > > Point is: many people cannot afford the > > > exhorbitant prices for the new Intel Mac......even including a [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > I've often heard that you folks overseas pay a higher price than here in > the U.S. Luckily, non-profit organisations usually qualify for "Education" pricing from Apple and most other places, but in the past even education prices were fairly expensive when compared to Windows boxes. Being in New Zealand where everything has to be shipped from miles away, in the past we probably had to pay one of the highest prices in the world (outside of "dangerous" countries anyway). Prices were no doubt also not helped by not having an official "Apple New Zealand", just a greedy distributor that of course wanted their own cut. In fact, it's usually cheaper to import from Australia (or sometime the US) than it is to buy here in New Zealand. That's especially true for software. Finally with the very recent opening of the offical Apple iTunes and webstore, prices dropped and we now have more sensible pricing more in-line with the other Apple webstores, although I haven't yet compared them. Helpful Harry Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) Here's the results from the previously mentioned price comparison in the UK MacFormat magazine (October 2006). They used Dell prices - you can almost certinaly get a cheaper no-name brand of PC by shopping around or custom-making your own PC, but they were looking as an "average" street / website buyer. There were a couple of minor differences in the "equivalent" specs (mainly graphics cards and DVD drives), but it was as close as they could get via the Dell webstore. There was also one major mistake made. Although you do get all the iLife software, Apple Macs no longer ship with any actual "office" software like a word processor. Most shop-purchased Windows PCs on the other hand do come with either MS Office or MS Works. In the case of the MacBook, adding the software equivalent would easily tip the price comparison the other way. It wasn't only computers they compared either, and the only area they found that Apple was expensive is when adding extra RAM (even considering it includes installation) ... except perhaps in the case of the "difficult" to open Macs like the Mac Mini where it's often better to let a service technician do the installation. Obviously it also has to be taken with a bit of skepticism that it *IS* a Mac magazine, so is likely to be somewhat skewed / biased towards the Mac, but the prices, etc are all real. A summary of the results ... * HEAD-TO-HEAD: Mac vs Windows PC Apple Mac Pro 2x 2.66GHz Dual-core £2,139 Dell Precision 690 2x 2.66GHz Dual-core £3,170 Apple iMac 17" 1.83GHz Core Duo £949 Dell XPS 700 1.83GHz Core 2 Duo £1,557 (includes 17" display) Apple MacBook 1.83 GHz Core Duo £749 Dell N086M5 Inspiron 640m 1.83GHz Core Duo £769 Verdict: Fair Deal The price of Apple Macs aren't just fair, they're actually an absolute bargin. * HEAD-To-HEAD: MP3 Players Apple iPod 30GB £219 Creative Zen Vision 30GB £270 Apple iPod Nano 2GB / 1GB £129 / £99 Creative Zen V 2GB / 1GB £110 / £90 Verdict: Fair Deal The iPod, whichever model you chose, isn't particularly expensive, and Apple's model is undoubtedly the best music player available. * HEAD-TO-HEAD: RAM Upgrades Mac Pro 2GB (4x 512MB) Apple £200 Crucial £110 4GB (4x 1GB) Apple £740 Crucial £432 8GB (8x 1GB) Apple £1,680 Crucial £865 iMac 20" 1GB (2x 512MB) Apple £70 or Mac Mini Crucial £41 1GB (1x 1GB) Apple £105 Crucial £78 2GB (2x 1GB) Apple £210 Crucial £147 Verdict: Rip-off Apple has little defence here. It's memory prices are just way too high. * HEAD-TO-HEAD: After Sales Support Apple Pro Care £75 per year (includes Genius Bar) PC World £100 for 1x "healthcheck", 1x "software install" and 1x interactive training CD Verdict: Fair Deal It's not perfect, but if you look at what it offers, you cannot call ProCare a rip-off. * HEAD-TO-HEAD: Music Webstores Apple iTunes £0.79 per track from £7.99 per album Napster £0.79 per track from £7.95 per album PLUS £9.95 to £14.95 monthly subscription HMV Digital £0.79 per track from £7.99 per album PLUS £14.99 monthly subscription Verdict: Fair Deal The iTunes Music Store is one very tempting option. * Final Verdict In the past, Apple's reputation as a kind of luxury manufacturer, where a premium was expected to be charged was definitely deserved. These days, though, things have changed and that reputation just doesn't fit in with the Apple of today. In truth Macs are as well made and desirable as they ever were, but they're now available at a highly competitive price. ... Is Apple ripping you off? We are pleased to report that the only possible answer is a resounding 'no'. Helpful Harry Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) > I've often heard that you folks overseas pay a higher price than here in > the U.S. Yes, it's true... and the higher prices don't just apply to Macs! They apply to EVERYTHING! Signature-- -- tonza (to e-mail, grab my "UUCP-like address", and translate it to the usual SMTP/sendmail form; hint, the translation is ridiculously simple!) > > On Feb 14, 3:52 pm, Helpful Harry <helpful_ha...@nom.de.plume.com> > > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > Not a "free trade-in", but Apple has done trade-in discount deals in > the past ... for both old Macs and Windows machines. When was this? never heard of that... SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" > > Not a "free trade-in", but Apple has done trade-in discount deals in > > the past ... for both old Macs and Windows machines. > > When was this? never heard of that... I'm not sure when, a few years ago now, and it doesn't happen very often, but it happened here in New Zealand and Australia, and I seem to recall reading about it happening in UK and/or US before that. Helpful Harry Hopefully helping harassed humans happily handle handiwork hardships ;o) > > > Not a "free trade-in", but Apple has done trade-in discount deals in > > > the past ... for both old Macs and Windows machines. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > often, but it happened here in New Zealand and Australia, and I seem to > recall reading about it happening in UK and/or US before that. Never heard of that here near L.A. Had Macs for a long time, now and have mostly always bought them through Apple. SignatureTo reply by email, remove the word "space" |
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