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Mac Forum / Programming / Mac Programming / November 2007Can find my documents only as system files, was: My mdimporter is not work...
Hello NG In the the thread above I told you about my problems with my mdimporter and that I can't find those documents in spotlight search. Now I found, when I open a search window in finder (command-f) and than change the selector to search system files these documents are found. It seems that the these files are indexed as system files. Is that a property I can change or is that a result of the user rights on the files or ACLs? I have checked for my documents with chown and found nothing special. These files have same rights like in ~/Library/ Mail. Thanks Florian Florian Zschocke <edv@zschocke-berlin.de> schrieb: > Hello NG > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > found nothing special. These files have same rights like in ~/Library/ > Mail. Ok, spotlight isn't indexing ~/Library anymore. Only Apples own stuff like ~/Library/Mail is still indexed. It looks like that there is no way to change this behavior. Sorry Apple, but that feels like a asskick. Florian In article <6F638776-0DFE-406A-9A1E-39E86893FA1D%edv@zschocke-berlin.de>, > Florian Zschocke <edv@zschocke-berlin.de> schrieb: > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > > Ok, spotlight isn't indexing ~/Library anymore. Um. Nonsense. Your importer was being executed for a file under ~/Library/. When you ran mdls on a file under ~/Library it retrieved the data your importer had given back. G > In article > <6F638776-0DFE-406A-9A1E-39E86893FA1D%edv@zschocke-berlin.de>, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Nonsense. Just to back this up: Fear:~ mikeash$ echo hopefullyuniquestring > test.txt Fear:~ mikeash$ mdfind hopefullyuniquestring /Users/mikeash/test.txt Fear:~ mikeash$ echo hopefullyuniquestring > Library/test.txt Fear:~ mikeash$ mdfind hopefullyuniquestring /Users/mikeash/Library/test.txt /Users/mikeash/test.txt This is on Leopard, x86 version. If spotlight isn't finding your stuff in Library, it sounds like you have some sort of problem with your system.  SignatureMichael Ash Rogue Amoeba Software Michael Ash <mike@mikeash.com> schrieb: > Just to back this up: > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > This is on Leopard, x86 version. If spotlight isn't finding your stuff in > Library, it sounds like you have some sort of problem with your system. These files are indexed. Ok my explanation was wrong. They are not shown in the results of finders spotlight search. Try to find these files in the spotlight search field. I'm not the only one having this problem. See also: http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=5733297 Florian > These files are indexed. Ok my explanation was wrong. They are not shown in > the results of finders spotlight search. > Try to find these files in the spotlight search field. I'm not the only one > having this problem. See also: > http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=5733297 I filed this as a bug. I find it annoying that I cannot search for prefernce plist files anymore (or ask users to do so in case of support requests...). I don't think of user preferences as System Files either. However, it does seem that not all Leopard users are bitten by this bug; I've heard from people who can still find plists from the Spotlight menu. patrick > Michael Ash <mike@mikeash.com> schrieb: >> Just to back this up: [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > having this problem. See also: > http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=5733297 I can confirm this as well. I didn't think to try the GUI. Both the spotlight menu and Finder search fail to find my file, even though mdfind works fine. IMO this is completely ridiculous behavior. It seems to be trying to save the user from himself, but it does a huge amount of harm. What happens when the user accidentally drags some important document into Library and doesn't know where it went? Suddenly it won't show up in Spotlight anymore, which is the obvious tool to retrieve it.... So much dumb stuff in Leopard. I'm going to file a bug with Apple. I recommend that anyone else who thinks this behavior is wrong do the same. Remember that bug fixes are prioritized by dupe popularity at least to a certain extent, so the more people who file a bug, the better chance that we'll get it fixed. SignatureMichael Ash Rogue Amoeba Software Michael Ash <mike@mikeash.com> schrieb: > ... So much dumb stuff > in Leopard. Uhh, I have wasted two days now i should have used to make things better. I could not believe that it find things ~/Library/Mail but not in the rest of ~/Library. Leopards firewall looks like a big white a.s in the dark, people started aiming at. It seems that the companies intelligence fits into a cellular these days. > I'm going to file a bug with Apple. I recommend that anyone else who > thinks this behavior is wrong do the same. Remember that bug fixes are > prioritized by dupe popularity at least to a certain extent, so the more > people who file a bug, the better chance that we'll get it fixed. I wrote a feedback. I'm not so sure if it is a bug or a asskick. Thanx Florian In article <23C31E64-8162-4276-A5C7-4DD3ACAD8A41%edv@zschocke-berlin.de>, > Michael Ash <mike@mikeash.com> schrieb: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > of ~/Library. Leopards firewall looks like a big white a.s in the dark, > people started aiming at. Aside from not having anything to do with your issue, Leopard's firewall is only a problem for software that is doing things that have never been supported or reliable. Apple does stupid things more often than I'd like as a customer or developer, but the reported firewall issues aren't Apple's fault or their responsibility to fix. > It seems that the companies intelligence fits into a cellular these days. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > > I wrote a feedback. I'm not so sure if it is a bug or a asskick. I'm voting for asskick. Or more correctly: misfeature. It's obvious that the mainstream search UI is filtering the results and it was probably done with the reasonable intent of hiding from my mother things that she's almost certainly not going to look for on purpose and shouldn't touch by accident. Unfortunately, it has ramifications elsewhere and I think there _should_ be a way to override the behavior. Gregory Weston <uce@splook.com> schrieb: > Aside from not having anything to do with your issue, No, sorry - it's just about the dump stuff. > Leopard's firewall > is only a problem for software that is doing things that have never been > supported or reliable. Apple does stupid things more often than I'd like > as a customer or developer, but the reported firewall issues aren't > Apple's fault or their responsibility to fix. Who is responsible? >> It seems that the companies intelligence fits into a cellular these days. >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > touch by accident. Unfortunately, it has ramifications elsewhere and I > think there _should_ be a way to override the behavior. Yes, I understand this problems. But wouldn't it be very easy to have a index-path-value in the plist of the mdimporter plugin that tells spotlight to index a given path as "public" or "non system file"? Florian In article <E24C2007-E8CA-4472-8EBE-C30FEE45541B%edv@zschocke-berlin.de>, > Gregory Weston <uce@splook.com> schrieb: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Who is responsible? That'd be the developers who coded behavior into their apps that has never been supported and that Apple has warned for years (more than 20 or nearly 10, depending on which specific misbehavior you want to talk about) was unreliable, in particular noting during the Leopard development cycle that these behaviors were going to become even more troublesome than they already had been. When a bridge collapses due to faulty construction, do you blame the last guy to drive his Honda across it? No. So don't blame Apple for a handful of 3rd-party developers who shipped broken apps. Maybe the incompatibility with Leopard's firewall will finally give some developers a kick in the a.s to not require the games they sell targeting pre-teens to be run under admin accounts. (Another side-effect of the older of the two coding errors under discussion.) > >> I wrote a feedback. I'm not so sure if it is a bug or a asskick. > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > mdimporter plugin that tells spotlight to index a given path as "public" or > "non system file"? Easy? Yes. Correct? Probably not. The user should be given the means to understand what's being omitted by default and an opportunity to override. I sincerely don't believe it should be the developers' discretion to decide which "system"-type files of theirs should be findable by default. >> I'm going to file a bug with Apple. I recommend that anyone else who >> thinks this behavior is wrong do the same. Remember that bug fixes are >> prioritized by dupe popularity at least to a certain extent, so the more >> people who file a bug, the better chance that we'll get it fixed. >> > I wrote a feedback. I'm not so sure if it is a bug or a asskick. Well either way, filing a bug is the right thing to do. The bug reporter is not just for legitimate bugs, but also for changes to intentional behavior, request for new features, basically any time you'd like something to be changed, file a bug. SignatureMichael Ash Rogue Amoeba Software > I'm going to file a bug with Apple. I recommend that anyone else who > thinks this behavior is wrong do the same. Remember that bug fixes are > prioritized by dupe popularity at least to a certain extent, so the more > people who file a bug, the better chance that we'll get it fixed. For cross reference, my report (oct 30): Problem ID 5567879: Spotlight field doesn't search user preferences folder patrick >> I'm going to file a bug with Apple. I recommend that anyone else who >> thinks this behavior is wrong do the same. Remember that bug fixes are [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Problem ID 5567879: Spotlight field doesn't search user preferences > folder For the Apple types reading the thread, mine is rdar://5593593 . SignatureMichael Ash Rogue Amoeba Software > > Problem ID 5567879: Spotlight field doesn't search user preferences > > folder > > For the Apple types reading the thread, mine is rdar://5593593 . My report was closed as a 'behaves correctly', so the chances of getting this functionality back before 10.6 are slim :-( Pretty annoying when supporting clients. "please send me the crash report" or "try deleting the preferences" become a lot more difficult if Spotlight can't find those files. Bummer. patrick >> > Problem ID 5567879: Spotlight field doesn't search user preferences >> > folder [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > report" or "try deleting the preferences" become a lot more difficult if > Spotlight can't find those files. Bummer. This is weird. Mine was marked a duplicate of 5592259. You'd think mine would be marked a duplicate of yours, or we'd both be marked a duplicate of the same one. Hopefully your "behaves correctly" is either mistaken or not representative of the general policy at Apple. I did once get a "behaves correctly" for a bug submitted in May 2006, and it turned out that it was meant to mean "fixed in Leopard". I have to say that Leopard is disappointing in this respect. I don't think it's been any buggier than any other new OS X release, but it seems to have a lot more things that *should* be bugs but which Apple considers to be features. Fortunately most of them are visual, but it's hard to conceieve of how anyone thinks this spotlight thing is a good idea. SignatureMichael Ash Rogue Amoeba Software > > My report was closed as a 'behaves correctly', so the chances of getting > > this functionality back before 10.6 are slim :-( > > This is weird. Mine was marked a duplicate of 5592259. You'd think mine > would be marked a duplicate of yours, or we'd both be marked a duplicate > of the same one. Maybe your wording was better... The Apple response acually included the clumsy workaround procedure (use the Finder search, include System files) so they understood the problem, they just think it's a feature. One other thing that's new and which I find clumsy: when you exclude a folder from Spotlight, you cannot search it anymore in the Finder. Even if you explicitly navigate to the folder and simply want to search the file names you cannot do it anymore. Supposedly this is because the finder now always uses Spotlight, but I find it surprising that you can't find a file even though you can _see_ it right before your eyes in the Finder window. > I have to say that Leopard is disappointing in this respect. I don't think > it's been any buggier than any other new OS X release, but it seems to > have a lot more things that *should* be bugs but which Apple considers to > be features. In my mind, the poster boy here is still the Finder. QuickLook is great (and an interesting vector for virus writers?) and it handles volume mounting better, but most other problems still exist. I think it is clear by now that Apple really doesn't _want_ to fix the Finder (or the Dock, for that matter). patrick > One other thing that's new and which I find clumsy: when you exclude a > folder from Spotlight, you cannot search it anymore in the Finder. Even [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > can't find a file even though you can _see_ it right before your eyes in > the Finder window. Is that new on 10.5? On 10.4, Mail certainly suffered from this; if you disabled indexing for any location which included your mailboxes, you would no longer be able to search them. Given that the 10.4 Finder's search was also based on Spotlight I would expect this same problem to occur. Maybe it did both and I wasn't aware. >> I have to say that Leopard is disappointing in this respect. I don't think >> it's been any buggier than any other new OS X release, but it seems to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > clear by now that Apple really doesn't _want_ to fix the Finder (or the > Dock, for that matter). Well, I've basically given up on the Finder so it's not really in my mind anymore. To think that I'd actually be pining for the good old Finder of 10.4, where at least it would (mostly) remember your view preferences for individual folders. The Dock seems little changed for my personal uses, but I can see how it would annoy some people. SignatureMichael Ash Rogue Amoeba Software Gregory Weston <uce@splook.com> schrieb: ave same rights like in ~/Library/ >> > Mail. >> > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > When you ran mdls on a file under ~/Library it retrieved the data your > importer had given back. Yes, but it is not shown in the results of spotlight search. Only if you search for system files via command -f these files are found. Florian |
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