Looking for workarounds for bugs in Powerpoint 2008 (even with SP1
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marclevoy - 20 May 2008 04:19 GMT I'm a heavy Powerpoint user, who recently switched from Windows to Mac. At first, I continued using Powerpoint 2003, under Parallels. However, this was a somewhat cumbersome solution, so I thought I would try Powerpoint 2008 for the Mac.
I am sorry to report that the experience has been terrible. Enumerated below are some of the problems I have encountered. Some of them are obviously bugs. Others are evidently poor design decisions, but so poor that they effectively cripple the product for its intended use (at least for me). I assume other people have experienced these same problems. I am therefore looking for suggestions, bugfixes, workarounds - anything that helps. Thanks in advance.
(I have a Mac Pro with Mac OS 10.5 (Leopard), and I am running version 12.1.0 of Office for the Mac, i.e. including Service Pack 1.)
1. The controls for inserted movies are very buggy. First, checking on "Loop until stopped" causes the movie to loop continuously, but it pauses at the end of roughly every second loop for a second or two, then jumps back to the beginning and begins playing again. This happens even on small (in X and Y), short (in time) movies, regardless of filetype. Before I installed Service Pack 1, the movie would actually pause in the *middle* of the movie, then jump back to the beginning; now it pauses at the end of the movie. So its behavior has improved slightly with SP1, but it's still not right.
2. To circumvent this bug, I tried manually clicking on the movie after it has played, in order to replay it. This works once, playing the movie a second time, but clicking a third time does nothing. One must click three times to replay the movie a third time. After that replaying, clicking once will immediately replay the movie a fourth time, and so on in this strange rhythm. Bugs 1 and 2 may be related.
3. To circumvent this second bug, I tried checking "Rewind after playing". This checkbox works correctly on some movies, but not others. In the latter case, it does nothing, as if the checkbox weren't checked.
4. I also tried clicking on the "Show movie controller". This brings up a slider-based movie controller, but what is its purpose? It disappears as soon as you unselect the object, and it never appears during the presentation. Thus, you can't use it to control the presentation, nor to select which frame the movie starts or ends on.
5. One more bug about inserted movies - if an image is inserted into a slide in front of a movie (designed for example to appear after I've played the movie, then clicked the mouse), then the movie plays jerkily. This behavior regardless of the filetype of the movie. This doesn't happen in Window Powerpoint 2003.
Since being able to control a movie is mission-critical for me, I gave up on controlling inserted movies, and decided instead to link to my movie files, which I would then play in an external player. However, in Powerpoint 2008 this is equally problemmatic.
6. First, action settings don't allow you to link to a file, with the notion that the file would be opened by the default application for that kind of file; you get an error message "Can't locate or start <filename>". This method of linking to files works in Windows Powerpoint 2003.
7. To avoid this bug, I tried hyperlinking to the movie file. However, in Powerpoint 2008, if you hyperlink to one of your own files, you get two pop-up warnings in succession every time you click on the file, even during your presentation. There appears to be no way to suppress these pop-ups. Since Powerpoint is supposed to be a public presentation tool, this effectively makes hyperlinks to files useless.
In desparation, I now pre-launch my movies (before starting my presentation), and switch tasks to the movie player in the middle of the presentation. In the year 2008, this is a pretty lame solution to playing movies during talks.
8. There appears to be no way to change the color of equations entered using the Microsoft Equation Editor; black is the only option. Black doesn't work if your slides are black. In Powerpoint 2003, you could "Recolor object" to change this color. Of course I can circumvent this problem by changing the slide's color scheme, but since I have dozens of talks that contain equations, this would be a major undertaking.
9. The progress bar for the autosave function is very annoying. I like having my work saved in the background, but I don't like having the progress bar pop up across my work every 10 minutes. If it's really a background function, then just do it quietly.
10. Powerpoint changes the "Date Modified" of files, even if you only look at them, without making any changes. This makes it hard to keep track of when you have modified a presentation. This bug affects only .ppt files, not .pptx files. But I have hundreds of such files, and I keep them sorted in the Finder using "Date Modified". Yes, I could start renaming my presentations to include the date every time I modify one, but this is an error-prone workaround.
This bug is so severe that it's almost a show-stopper for me. It may drive me to either revert to Powerpoint 2003 or 2007 under Parallels or VMWare Fusion, or switch to Apple's Keynote package.
-Marc Levoy Palo Alto, CA
Dominik Samuelis - 20 May 2008 12:00 GMT Hi Marc,
I'm glad I'm not the only one considering this bug a show stopper for PPT2008 (see http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.mac.office.powerpoint/browse_thr ead/thread/b7991e346d2aab2d/dbac2b7ccd3f02c6)
Microsoft knows about this bug at least since March 2008, and I was very disappointed when I learnt that SP1 doesn't contain a fix. In fact, I'm now back to using MacPPT2004.
Since I'm kind of a "Mac software advisor" to my colleagues, I now actively dissuade them from using Office 2008.
Cheers, dominik
> 10. Powerpoint changes the "Date Modified" of files, even if you only look at > them, without making any changes. This makes it hard to keep track of when [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > to either revert to Powerpoint 2003 or 2007 under Parallels or VMWare Fusion, > or switch to Apple's Keynote package. nancy.cho@gmail.com - 22 May 2008 02:46 GMT Hi Marc,
I have a few questions to ask about the movie files (and answers :). In terms of the movie problems you are experiencing, I'm not able to reproduce these problems on my machine so maybe some more info would be great...
What type of movie files are you experiencing the problems? avi, mov, mpeg? How big are your files generally? What version of QuickTime Player do you have? Please make sure you have the latest update...as PowerPoint uses Quicktime to drive/play all movies Q6 - How are you trying to set the action settings to start the movie? This should work. Are you setting the action to text or to an object?
And to answer some questions Q4 - The "Show Movie Controller" is basically the Quicktime player controller. It is meant only to be used the edit mode and not in slide show mode. However, if you think it would be good to have such control within slide show, I can put in the suggestion for our next version - if you have any other suggestions on more improvements for movie controls, please let me know! :) Q7 - Hyperlinking to a file will always bring up the warning; this was put in as part of security within Office apps. However, I have heard requests for a preference to turn this off and will be putting in a suggestion for this. FYI, you will get the warnings also, if you use action settings to a file as well.
I hope this helps...and let me know about those questions when you get a chance. Thanks! Nancy (Tester in Mac PowerPoint team)
marclevoy - 24 May 2008 02:41 GMT Nancy,
Thanks for replying to my post.
I have also asked Microsoft to help me with these problems as one of my "two free support incidents", and someone named (or pseudo-named) Kimberley has been trying to help (v-8kimca@mssupport.microsoft.com). However, she appears not to understand the problems, and we have gone around several times on this. Here is my most recent email to her, edited to make it clearer to you.
Basically, in a brand new Powerpoint 2008 presentation, if a video is inserted by itself into a presentation, it plays smoothly on all my machines. I have no performance issue with these movies. (I have a MacBook Pro, 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, with an NVidia GeForce 8600M GT graphics card, and I have two brand-new MacPros, with eight cores, 4 GB of memory (!), and an NVIDIA GeForce 8800. These are the most powerful systems Apple makes. I am running OS 10.5.2, and QuickTime 7.4.1. These systems are less than a month old, so I have the "latest and greatest" of everything.
However, if an image is placed over the video, but configured to appear only after a mouse click (after playing the video), then the video plays jerkily. This occurs for *any* video I insert, even tiny (in X and Y) videos.
Here is a directory containing files that show the problem:
http://graphics.stanford.edu/~levoy/for-microsoft/powerpoint-bugs.pptx http://graphics.stanford.edu/~levoy/for-microsoft/crowd0-sap.mp4 http://graphics.stanford.edu/~levoy/for-microsoft/fern83.mov
In the .pptx file, slide #2 places crowd0-sap.mov beneath an image, slide #3 places crowd0-sap.mp4 beneath an image, and slide #4 places a tiny (180 x 180 pixel) 1.3MB video, fern83.mov beneath an image. In all cases, when you play the video in Powerpoint 2008, it plays jerkily. If you return to slide editing mode and delete the image from atop the videos, then re-enter presentation mode and play the videos, then they play smoothly. This happens on all my machines, even my huge 8-core MacPro. Obviously, performance is not the issue.
(Unfortunately, I cannot find a way to use relative pathnames when inserting movies into Powerpoint presentations, so you may have to delete and re-insert the movie in order to play it. I know how to create relative pathnames in action settings and hyperlinks, but not inserted movies. If there is a method, please tell me. If you delete and re-insert the movie, make sure you place it in the same place (in X and Y) as the image, but below it (i.e. behind it in ordering).
Regarding my problem with having to click on the movie multiple times to get it to replay, on slide #5 of the .pptx file, consider "fern spore" movie. (If you need to delete and re-insert it, then check "Rewind after playing" after re-inserting it.) If in presentation mode you click on that movie, then after the movie plays, it rewinds. But only once. If you click on the movie again, it plays a second time, but doesn't rewind. In fact, it won't rewind again, unless you exit from presentation mode and re-enter it. These clicks are slow, and they are done leisurely, *after* the movie plays the first time. There is no processor load involved. So again, this is not a performance issue; it is apparently a bug.
On Q6, I have tried every syntax I can think of to start the movie; nothing works. I cannot browse to select a file; Powerpoint 2008 apparently allows me to select only Applications this way, not arbitrary files. Specifically, all but applications are grayed out. Interestingly, even valid Mac executables I create myself are grayed out. How does Powerpoint define what an "Application" is? Failing that, I have tried inserting text myself. I have tried relative links: "../videos/crowd0-sap.mov", or several kinds of absolute links, like "/Users/levoy/videos/crowd0-sap.mov" or "Macintosh HD:/Users/levoy/videos/crowd0-sap.mov". None of these work; they all produce the same "Can't locate or start..." error message. What is the magic syntax?
On Q4, for showing scientific data, I often want to scrub the video back and forth interactively during a talk. The QuickTime external player lets me do this. It would be nice if Powerpoint's movie controller did too (during the talk).
On Q7, in lieu of a preference, these warnings could come up the first time you lick on a file, typically during a practice talk, rather than every time you click on the same file. That would also solve the problem.
-Marc Levoy Stanford University
marclevoy - 24 May 2008 03:07 GMT ject: Refinement of my question about relative links To: nancy.cho@gmail.com Cc: Bcc: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=# Don't remove this line #=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Nancy,
Regarding my comment about relative links, I tried the first method for obtaining relative links that is suggested on the page:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/885915
but it does not work, at least in Powerpoint 2008. Specifically, I tried to insert the movie "movies/mymovie.mov", which was contained within the directory that contained my talk. However, it created an absolute link. I could see this link on the Formatting palette. Moreover, when I movied the talk to another directory, I didn't need to move the movie; it still found it, thus proving that it was using an absolute link.
The other methods on that web page are unusable on the Mac. Moreover, a solution I have seen elsewhere, of making the path very simple, like "C:\talks\mytalktalk.ptt" "C:\talks\mymovie.mov" doesn't work on the Mac, because the path would include my name, i.e. "Macintosh HD:levoy:talks:mytalk.ppt". This makes it impossible to give the talk to a colleague, since their username will be different.
The inability to insert relative links makes it very hard to give a presentation to a colleague, or to you for testing purposes. It means you need to delete and re-insert every movie. A workaround for this problem would be appreciated.
-Marc Levoy
Nancy Cho - 28 May 2008 22:49 GMT Hi Marc, I was able to get your file and found something interesting. Is there a reason that the image in front of the movie needs to be animated? I found that if the image is not animated, then the movie plays alot smoother. HOwever, you are right in that it does play jerkily and that appears to be a bug. I will be logging this "jerky" bug problem in our database for future consideration. But if you could let me know why you have the image animating on top of the movie, it would be great. So the only workaround for this is to not have the image animate. Please let me know if this worked.
I also noticed that the fern83.mov moves jerkily whether there is an image on top of it or not. But I did notice that if the movie is set to play automatically, then the movie runs smoothly (again, another bug I will log)
Thirdly, the "rewind after playing" is not working correctly when you have the movie set to "when clicked" instead of running "automatically". Again, another possible bug that I will look into.
In regards to relative vs. absolute links for movies, movies are set with absolute links, but if you save the presentation as a package (that is, go to File menu, then Save As, then in Format, choose PowerPoint package), it will make sure that the links are set, so when you send the file along with movies (within the same directory), the links should not be lost. If this does not work, please let me know and we can try to investigate that separately
In using hyperlinks to play the movie within QuickTime player, I would suggest to either use a shape or type some text and set an action setting to it - to link to the movie. That is. 1. Add a shape or text and select it 2. Goto Slide Show menu, then Action Settings 3. Choose Hyperlink to: Other file. Choose the movie file
That way, when you click on the text or shape, it will automatically exit out of the slide show, launch QuickTime player and you can play the movie. After you quit the player, it will automatically go back to the Slideshow where you left off.
I will also put in a suggestion on your idea of being able to use the movie controller within the slideshow (I think I did already! :))
Sorry that you have found so many problems on movies, but I want to thank you for letting us know so we can improve our movie playing in PowerPoint. If there is anything I missed here, please let me know and we can continue to discuss this.
Thanks, Nancy
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