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Mac Forum / General / Portable Macs / April 2004Tablet?
Has anyone insight into what Apple might be doing to join the 'tablet' market? Tablet computers/interfaces are definitely a powerful niche, in fact the pen and touchscreen keyboard (without pen) was anticipated over ten years ago. Is Apple going to join in or lose it? > Has anyone insight into what Apple might be doing to join the 'tablet' > market? Tablet computers/interfaces are definitely a powerful niche, in > fact the pen and touchscreen keyboard (without pen) was anticipated over ten > years ago. Is Apple going to join in or lose it? The Tablet PC market, in the UK at least, has not really lived up to expectations, although education sales are not too bad. This has lead a number of manufacturers to drop their tablet offerings, so I'd be suprised if Apple made any serious efforts. Maybe if they were still offering a Newton-type device, but... - Ian > The Tablet PC market, in the UK at least, has not really lived up to > expectations, although education sales are not too bad. This has lead a > number of manufacturers to drop their tablet offerings, so I'd be suprised > if Apple made any serious efforts. [...] Very interesting, Ian. Thanks for the view. I work in higher education and interest in the tablets is intense. In fact there is a good chance the majority of students and faculty will have convertibles this year, and convertibles are the precursor to tablets. This might push Apple right out of our mainstream population. These are interesting times. > > The Tablet PC market, in the UK at least, has not really lived up to > > expectations, although education sales are not too bad. This has lead a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > convertibles are the precursor to tablets. This might push Apple right out > of our mainstream population. These are interesting times. Interesting. Myself, I would be most interested in a genuine laptop that was super-light. In the PC world, both JVC and Sony produce laptops weighing less than 1 kg.  SignatureSend e-mail to the Reply-To address; mail to the From address is never read > In the PC world, both JVC and Sony produce laptops > weighing less than 1 kg. What did JVC and Sony omit from those laptops to get them down to 1 kg? They're probably bare-bones laptops that would not even be considered functional for a lot of people. Signature-Thomas <http://www.bitjuggler.com/> > > In the PC world, both JVC and Sony produce laptops > > weighing less than 1 kg. > > What did JVC and Sony omit from those laptops to get them down to 1 kg? > They're probably bare-bones laptops that would not even be considered > functional for a lot of people. Sony has used carbon fibre as its main material, and has designed an especially small motherboard, both of which cut the weight significantly. Both have small screens 10 inch for Sony, only 8.6 for the JVC. CD drives are external, I'm not sure if they have floppy drives. Both have wifi, the Sony with an included card, the JVC with a Centrino processor. I think the small screen and lack of internal drives are the main negative features. Small screen of course is a permanent minus (though at home one could connect to a larger screen, I reckon). External drives are a less important point, one can take them for long trips and do without for short ones. The processors aren't the most powerful, even for laptops, but I don't know if that matters much. As you say, they may not suit lots of people, but I don't think they can be called "bare-bones:. But I've never had a good feel about PDAs, and a genuine laptop that I could carry (in a brief case, not a car) around a lot of the time would suit me. Weight is a crucial factor for me when considering a new laptop. SignatureSend e-mail to the Reply-To address; mail to the From address is never read > > In the PC world, both JVC and Sony produce laptops > > weighing less than 1 kg. > > What did JVC and Sony omit from those laptops to get them down to 1 kg? > They're probably bare-bones laptops that would not even be considered > functional for a lot of people. It hasn't stopped the Sony Vaio from being one of the most popular Wintel laptops on the market. Very powerful for their size, sufficient amounts of RAM, a good processor, and a high capacity hard drive, coupled with plenty of grunty onboard subsystems. What's missing is any kind of CD-ROM drive, these are available as an external pod, and are plugged in as needed. I know quite a few people who love their Vaios -- they're also popular in the music industry with artists, especialy those who use Cubase and a battery of VST plug-ins to create their music. Israeli live trance act Infected Mushroom use two, as an example, when they take their show on the road. Geoffrey (remove EXCESS BAGGAGE to reply via mail) SignatureWARNING: mail to this address will be auto-bounced if: (a) more than 10% original content appears before first quoted matter, (b) quoted material exceeds 75% of total message content, and/or (c) HTML is used to format text and/or embed non-ASCII items. > > > In the PC world, both JVC and Sony produce laptops > > > weighing less than 1 kg. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > kind of CD-ROM drive, these are available as an external pod, and are > plugged in as needed. The funny think about these is that when I see people using them, they've always got the "dock" unit with the drives attached. I don't know why they bought the small computer just to always attach all of the rest of the weight/size. Of course, these are the same people that carry one backpack for their books (I'm at a University), and another bag (often just as big) for their computer. Further, whenever they pull out the computer, they plug it in! That's another item that they carry with their "ultri-light" computer. I just carry my Pismo (with two batteries if I think that I might need the extra) in a sleeve in my regular pack, and go. That's the trade-off with the ultra-small computers: if your usage pattern isn't inside a very specific range, it seems like you'll end up lugging all of the accessories around anyway, and have to deal with the additional hassle of having lots of parts too. At that rate, you're not saving any space or weight. Granted, for those who would fit the usage pattern, it would be nice to have the option, but I'm happy with my Pismo so it's someone else's problem > I just carry my Pismo (with two batteries if I think that I might need > the extra) in a sleeve in my regular pack, and go. That's the trade-off > with the ultra-small computers: if your usage pattern isn't inside a > very specific range, it seems like you'll end up lugging all of the > accessories around anyway Exactly. I was at a conference lately with my 17" PowerBook, which most people say is not portable enough. Well, I was able to use it on the airplane (though I couldn't fully open the screen, but its screen is viewable from some pretty extreme angles, so that wasn't really a problem) and all through the conference without trouble. I didn't carry loads of accessories. Just the laptop and its compact power cable (to recharge during lunch) in my bag with the rest of my conference materials. I was able to access the internet and share files wirelessly throughout the conference, could have burned or read a CD if necessary, and didn't have to leave any of my processing power, apps, files, etc at home or in the hotel. If a 17" is too big, I think a 12" PowerBook would practically fit in my pocket, without sacrificing much except screen real estate. Why would you need anything else? A lightweight laptop (like the 12" PowerBook) with a touch screen that can pivot (so you can close the lid with the screen facing out instead of in) and an included stylus would be far better than a plain tablet. You'd get everything you want in a laptop, plus the ability to treat it like a tablet if you want to. Signature-Thomas <http://www.bitjuggler.com/> [snip] > A lightweight laptop (like the 12" PowerBook) with a touch screen that > can pivot (so you can close the lid with the screen facing out instead > of in) Can you imagine the hinge problems that Apple would have (given their history) if they tried this? :-) > > A lightweight laptop (like the 12" PowerBook) with a touch screen that > > can pivot (so you can close the lid with the screen facing out instead > > of in) > > Can you imagine the hinge problems that Apple would have (given their > history) if they tried this? :-) As the owner of a machine that has hinge problems, I can! :-( But, given time and money, the problem can be solved. My digital video camera has a swiveling LCD screen. Granted, it is significantly smaller, but it's been done. It's only a matter of time, IMHO, before it is done with a laptop. Signature-Thomas <http://www.bitjuggler.com/> > As the owner of a machine that has hinge problems, I can! :-( But, > given time and money, the problem can be solved. My digital video > camera has a swiveling LCD screen. Granted, it is significantly > smaller, but it's been done. It's only a matter of time, IMHO, before > it is done with a laptop. We will see. I see 6,000 convertibles with pivoting screens being ordered here. Stay tuned. (It's so nice to see someone doing the field R&D for The Rest of Us.) > If a 17" is too big, I think a 12" PowerBook would practically fit in > my pocket, without sacrificing much except screen real estate. Why > would you need anything else? You must have very large pockets. SignatureSend e-mail to the Reply-To address; mail to the From address is never read Does the large screen size affect the portability that much? I was planning on getting the 17" PB but I want to know what difficulities it poses. Steven Bitaxi > > I just carry my Pismo (with two batteries if I think that I might need > > the extra) in a sleeve in my regular pack, and go. That's the trade-off [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > You'd get everything you want in a laptop, plus the ability to treat it > like a tablet if you want to. Does the large screen size affect the portability that much? I was planning on getting the 17" PB but I want to know what difficulities it poses. Steven Bitaxi > > I just carry my Pismo (with two batteries if I think that I might need > > the extra) in a sleeve in my regular pack, and go. That's the trade-off [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > You'd get everything you want in a laptop, plus the ability to treat it > like a tablet if you want to. I have a 15" powerbook and absolutely love it. It's been nothing but wonderful for me. Given the choice, I don't think I would go either direction (12" or 17"). The 15" is so perfect, not too small (never like the 12" laptops much, but I bet they're portable!) and not too big. I've never had a 17", but I just can't imagine it being terribly easy to lug around and fit into tight spaces, etc. I did want a little more screen real estate though, especially for writing papers and presentations where I am pulling information from multiple sources (powerpoint, word, and the internet), so I looked around and found a free desktop manager for OS X. Works great and has keyboard shortcuts for moving between desktops and everything. And you should see the looks and comments I get with the "cube" screen transitions! :) Anyway, it's just called "Desktop Manager" v0.5.1 by Rich Wareham and Jon Rentzsch, and it's freeware off of sourceforge. Just my two cents. HTH, Jason > Does the large screen size affect the portability that much? I was > planning on getting the 17" PB but I want to know what difficulities > it poses. > > Steven Bitaxi > I have a 15" powerbook and absolutely love it. It's been nothing but > wonderful for me. Given the choice, I don't think I would go either > direction (12" or 17"). I also have 15'' PowerBook but as I travel a lot by plane I'm strongly considering switch to 12''. The 15'' machine is not the best for tight spaces on the plane. The only concern for me is if I'll be able to make adjustment from current 15'' screen resolution to 1024x768 on the 12'' machine. Anyone did this before any comments, suggestions? I guess I can try the Desktop Manager or Virtual desktop programs and see how they work for me. Jan Yeah, I guess I'm going to get the real test here soon. I'm taking an extended trip overseas and the total flight time will be around 56 hours by the time everything is said and done and I'm back home. I'm hoping it won't be that bad. I'm planning to watch quite a few movies in that time and maybe get a little bit of work done. Anyway, that's the one place a 12" might be nicer, for those small, tight spaces. I guess we'll see how bad it is. Just for curiousity, what is your biggest complaint on the plane? Bumping into the backseat of the people on the plane (ie, height)? Sided to side width, bumping into the people next to you? Simply fitting it onto the tray table? Anything else? Thanks, Jason > I also have 15'' PowerBook but as I travel a lot by plane I'm strongly > considering switch to 12''. The 15'' machine is not the best for tight [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Jan > Just for curiousity, what is your biggest complaint on the plane? Battery. Can anyone help me figure out what kind of adapter I need to use those power outlets in airplanes (I have a 12" Powerbook)? Stefan If I'm not mistaken, this is just a typical 12V car plugin. There are adapters available for just a straight shot (replace your regular AC adapter). I found this one quickly in a newsgroup search: http://www.madsonline.com/ But certainly not as cheap as I would like. It's my understanding that Targus and Kensington (among others) make these as well with different tips, etc. A second, much heavier and bulkier (but probably cheaper!) option is a DC-AC power inverter. With this, you plug the inverter into the output from the airplane jack, then the inverter has a normal plug like a wall outlet at your home would, and you plug your regular AC adapter into that. They work well, but like I said are quite large and bulky by comparison. BTW, if you go this route, don't buy online or at a big electronics store, look (or ask) around for a local small electronics shop. They typically carry little things like this and for a lower price. Don't know quite what I'll be doing just yet, but I've got to decide quick. Has anyone any experience with the world power adapter pack from Apple? Since I'm going to both SE Asia and Australia, I'm afraid I might need two things anyway and this might make it easier. Now and in the future. Jason >>Just for curiousity, what is your biggest complaint on the plane? > > Battery. Can anyone help me figure out what kind of adapter I need > to use those power outlets in airplanes (I have a 12" Powerbook)? > > Stefan >If I'm not mistaken, this is just a typical 12V car plugin. There are >adapters available for just a straight shot (replace your regular AC [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >might need two things anyway and this might make it easier. Now and in >the future. I have the Pismo version of hte Madsonline adapter. It comes with an adapter for what was supposed to be the airline power socket, but I've only seen the car type used and it works just fine. As to world power, all you need is a plug adapter. Any travel store or Radio Shack will have them. SignatureRon Actually, there are at least three types of airplane power outlet (I've encountered all of these): 1. The weird kind United, Delta and some other airlines use. 2. The car cigarette lighter kind that American and several others use. 3. A standard 2-prong US-style outlet that Luftansa uses. I now carry either an iGo Juice or a Targus Charge Source. Both come with both kinds of DC connectors and both are AC as well. I prefer the Targus (size, capacity, design), but either will work. Neither is cheap. Both are excellent substitutes for Apple's adapters. iGo includes power tips for all G3 and G4 PowerBooks. With the Charge Source, you'll need to call Targus for the tips. CompUSA often has sales on the Kensington version of the Juice, and occasionally on the Charge Source. > If I'm not mistaken, this is just a typical 12V car plugin. There are > adapters available for just a straight shot (replace your regular AC [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > > > > Stefan > iGo includes power > tips for all G3 and G4 PowerBooks. With the Charge Source, you'll need > to call Targus for the tips. Does this apply to iBooks as well as Powerbooks? SignatureSend e-mail to the Reply-To address; mail to the From address is never read I don't know about iBooks. Best bet is to visit the iGo and Targus sites and see. All I have is 3 generations of PowerBooks. The sites, I think, are (or were a couple of months ago): Juice: http://igo.ententeweb.com/mapfiles/Juice_Comp_Default.asp Charge Source: http://www.targus.com/support.asp > > iGo includes power > > tips for all G3 and G4 PowerBooks. With the Charge Source, you'll need > > to call Targus for the tips. > > Does this apply to iBooks as well as Powerbooks? In article <abbottNOSPAM-515484.21340426042004@news2.west.earthlink.net>, > I don't know about iBooks. Best bet is to visit the iGo and Targus sites > and see. All I have is 3 generations of PowerBooks. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > > > Does this apply to iBooks as well as Powerbooks? iBooks and PowerBooks use the same power connectors. However, there are two different sizes of connector (PowerBooks changed to the smaller one with the introduction of the TiBook), and I don't know which iBooks use the larger and which the smaller. I know that the "icebook" uses the smaller connector, but don't know when the switch occurred. So, if the unit supplies tips for both G3 and G4 PowerBooks, no matter what iBook you have, you're covered. In article <abbottNOSPAM-B421D0.09121525042004@news3.west.earthlink.net>, Abbott Schindler <abbottNOSPAM@NOSPAMkbase.com> wrote: > Actually, there are at least three types of airplane power outlet (I've > encountered all of these): > 1. The weird kind United, Delta and some other airlines use. That's EmPower standard. Was and is still the most common. > 2. The car cigarette lighter kind that American and several others use. > 3. A standard 2-prong US-style outlet that Luftansa uses. The latest premium class seats have regular 110V power sockets, that typically accommodates 2 pin and 3 pin plugs. These are getting more and more wide-spread on BA, QF, SQ and many others. And quite rightly so. -- Signature-- > Yeah, I guess I'm going to get the real test here soon. I'm taking an > extended trip overseas and the total flight time will be around 56 hours > by the time everything is said and done and I'm back home. I'm hoping > it won't be that bad. I'm planning to watch quite a few movies in that > time and maybe get a little bit of work done. Good luck with this. I'm suffering trough just few flights to Europe 8 hours one way. > Just for curiousity, what is your biggest complaint on the plane? > Bumping into the backseat of the people on the plane (ie, height)? > Sided to side width, bumping into the people next to you? Simply > fitting it onto the tray table? Anything else? Well, my biggest problem is to fit the laptop on my lap when the person in front of me moves their seat. Sideways it is OK. I often end up slightly closing the laptop and moving it so I can see the sceen and watch the movie. No way to work on the keyboard. Well that's economy class anyways. If you travel business you will be just fine even with 17'' machine. Jan Yeah, no such luck of business. It's coach all the way! Thanks for the input, but how do you mean by "Sideways it is OK"? On the seat next to you? The armrest? Thanks again, Jason > Well, my biggest problem is to fit the laptop on my lap when the person > in front of me moves their seat. Sideways it is OK. I often end up [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Jan > Yeah, no such luck of business. It's coach all the way! Thanks for the > input, but how do you mean by "Sideways it is OK"? On the seat next to > you? The armrest? What I mean is that you like 1/3 close the laptop, place it on your lap (an belly) and watch the movie. You can watch the movie just fine, but no way you can type or get anything done in this position. Well there is only so much space there. BTW I got the 12'' just yeaterday in Apple Store - one of the refreshed machines with over $400 discount. Very good deal and machine seems to be very fast compared with my 667 TiBook. Getting used to the smaller screen. Good luck on the road. Also if you can get extra battery do it. It is worth every cent when you travel. On average my 15'' machine lasts about 1,5 hour when wathcing DVD. Also switch off everything you do not need when on the plane (Bluetooth, AirPort Card, ano rpocesses you do not need). Jan Thanks for the advice, will be sure to save as much juice as I can, but hope to be able to use an inverter or such as all of the legs are 8-12 hours. Good luck with your new one. Thanks again, Jason > Good luck on the road. Also if you can get extra battery do it. It is > worth every cent when you travel. On average my 15'' machine lasts [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Jan > spaces on the plane. The only concern for me is if I'll be able to make > adjustment from current 15'' screen resolution to 1024x768 on the 12'' > machine. Anyone did this before any comments, suggestions? I lived the last 7 years with 21" 1800x1440 (with pretty small fonts) and recently had to learn to live with 12" 1024x768. It was painful, but not completely impossible. I had to customize my main application (Emacs) to remove most of the screen-clutter like menu-bar, scroll-bar, and such stuff, tho. Stefan > > I have a 15" powerbook and absolutely love it. It's been nothing but > > wonderful for me. Given the choice, I don't think I would go either [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > adjustment from current 15'' screen resolution to 1024x768 on the 12'' > machine. Anyone did this before any comments, suggestions? Yep. I replaced a stolen 15" TiBook with a 12" Powerbook. I use it as my main machine. I always run two monitors at home and work, so LCD screen size does not bite very often. When travelling, the 12" is far more convenient. Scrunched down at the back of the plane is far easier. There is even room for a drink on the tray beside it and it is still usable when the 200lb gorilla in the seat in front reclines for zzzz's. The lack of screen space is noticeable compared to the TiBook, but only when I'm on the road. I use lots of keyboard shortcuts to keep everything but the active application's windows off the screen, but within easy reach. (Cmd-opt-h and cmd-tab are the best of them) After the TiBoko grew legs in the Brussels Metro, the new one travels incognito. I'll never use a laptop bag ever again. The smaller PBook is easier to disguise. SignatureI thought I would be the last on earth to mangle my e-mail address. fsnospam$elliott$$ > > I have a 15" powerbook and absolutely love it. It's been nothing but > > wonderful for me. Given the choice, I don't think I would go either [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Jan The 12" screen may be small, but I've found it very readable. Learn to use Command-Tab # quickly cycle though open apps Command ` # grave accent - cycle though app windows These 2 commands in Mac OS X 10.3 will help you quickly navigate though your open Applications, and the multiple windows of a given application. Bob Harris > The 12" screen may be small, but I've found it very readable. > > Learn to use > > Command-Tab # quickly cycle though open apps > Command ` # grave accent - cycle though app windows Thanks for the tips. I switched to Mac from Windows and Command-Tab is like my first nature. I learned the Command ` about a year ago and found it very good. Also LunchBar helps a lot especially with the new functionality I can even browse my drive folders and launch files with just a few key strokes. Jan > Does the large screen size affect the portability that much? I was > planning on getting the 17" PB but I want to know what difficulities > it poses. None, really. Someone else was advocating the 15" because he "imagined" the 17" would be harder to carry around. It really isn't. I believe it's lighter than my old Wallstreet was, and I *know* it's thinner. I think the older laptops were harder to move around than even the 17". For example, haven't you ever snagged the battery release lever on a Wallstreet (or similar model) while moving it around and lost a whole bunch of work when the power fails? I think a more significant barrier in the case of the 17" is the price. Is the larger screen worth the extra cost for you? If so, get it and down't worry so much about the portability. On an airplane, it's a bit tight. If the person in front puts their seat back, you'd probably be SOL. I don't imagine this is different by much with a 15", since there's probably less than an inch of difference in screen height and machine depth between it and the 17". The 12" might be usable, but it's so darn *small*! I could never work on something like that. I like being able to have two full pages of text side-by-side, or code windows scattered all over the screen, or seeing all or most of a large image at full size in Photoshop Elements. Signature-Thomas <http://www.bitjuggler.com/> > > Does the large screen size affect the portability that much? I was > > planning on getting the 17" PB but I want to know what difficulities > > it poses. > > None, really. Someone else was advocating the 15" because he > "imagined" the 17" would be harder to carry around.... You have to check your bags though - not all of them will carry the 17". Other than that I am very happy with my 17". HTH Marc SignatureMarc Heusser (remove the obvious: CHEERS and MERICAL...until end to reply via email) > > The Tablet PC market, in the UK at least, has not really lived up to > > expectations, although education sales are not too bad. > I work in higher education and interest in the tablets is intense. Apple still hold a sizable percentage of the education market, but your observation is correct, if there's any market where tablet-style computers are very popular, it is in education, and if Apple don't come up with something soon, I think they'll miss the boat. Geoffrey (remove EXCESS BAGGAGE to reply via mail) SignatureWARNING: mail to this address will be auto-bounced if: (a) more than 10% original content appears before first quoted matter, (b) quoted material exceeds 75% of total message content, and/or (c) HTML is used to format text and/or embed non-ASCII items. >>>The Tablet PC market, in the UK at least, has not really lived up to >>>expectations, although education sales are not too bad. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > observation is correct, if there's any market where tablet-style > computers are very popular, it is in education, I second this. Each semester dozens of students inquire about my Newton. They are not very likely to make the effort and get one (due to the lack official support), but they like it. And usually I am not even pulling any of the more fancy stunts (WLAN, BlueTooth, live ink->text conversion), just plain writing. A slim convertible 10" or 12" with no optical drive (for size) would be very nice, but the battery would have to last for 8-10 hours of real use straight, and it has to have a 100% daylight-capable display. Just yesterday I noticed a considerable amount of students with notebooks out in the bright sun, pretending they could actually see what they were doing. Hopeless. Oliver :) |
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