> I'm interested in getting a laptop Mac of some kind, but really
> haven't kept up with what's going on in the computer world, so I need
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> I would really like something nice and handy, but which one?
Any current one will work fine. You might consider going for a 15"
PBook to get Firewire 800. Multi-track audio will need external
hardware, but there is good stuff out there.
> Besides the usual stuff (email, web, word-processing, graphics etc.) I
> would also love to edit my (Mini-DV) home videos with it and possibly
> also use it as a home-studio later on (multitrack audio harddisk
> recording/MIDI).
I'm using Final Cut Pro on a 12" Powerbook. Rendering is slow, but much
faster than your 9600 could manage. I chose the little 12" machine for
its size. It works wonderfully as my main machine with a second
monitor.
Get as much memory as you can afford.
> I've used MacOS 7.x,8.x and currently 9.2, and although MacOS X (10)
> seems flashy enough I'm a little sceptical as MacOS really was/is a
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> once the computer is up and running? I'm confused and really don't
> know too much about all of this.
If you are starting from scratch, and don't have a lot of OS9 software,
go straight to OS X. New Powerbooks don't run OS 9 natively. Classic
(OS9 emulated inside OS X) is no good for video. All the good video
stuff is OS X. I don't have enough audio experience to advise you for
that side. There seems to be good support for audio in OS X, but a
shortage of top line audio applications so far. (check with someone who
knows what they are talking about, not me)
OS X is based on FreeBSD unix. There is much that is different at the
edge of the hardware. Of course the UI is slick ease of use as only
Apple can do. You need never see the unix underneath if you choose not
to. If you do, you will be amazed at what a powerful little toy you
have bought. The combination is excellent.
> What about cost? How much would I need to spend in order to get
> something decent? I might go for 2nd hand as well, and really am not
> the type who needs the latest and flashiest as long as it does the
> job.
> Suggestions and comments anyone?
Look at the Apple store prices. You won't do much better for new kit.
Look on e-bay for second hand. Discard the really cheap offers of
new-ish stuff. They are almost certainly scams. Powerbooks hold their
value very well.

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Marijn van der Waa - 25 Feb 2004 16:50 GMT
> > I'm interested in getting a laptop Mac of some kind, but really
> > haven't kept up with what's going on in the computer world, so I need
> > some clues..
> > I would really like something nice and handy, but which one?
> Any current one will work fine.
With the added note that you should put as much RAM in it as will fit in
/ you can afford. OS X loves RAM, and you're going to use applications
which will be much happier wth lots of memory.

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Mike - 26 Feb 2004 03:49 GMT
> > > I'm interested in getting a laptop Mac of some kind, but really
> > > haven't kept up with what's going on in the computer world, so I need
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> / you can afford. OS X loves RAM, and you're going to use applications
> which will be much happier wth lots of memory.
I'm on an iBook 600 with 384 megs of ram; I rarely max out the ram but
I'm regularly pinning the cpu. That said, the biggest bottleneck seems
to be my hard drive--this is only 4200 rpm, which seems to cause the
most difficulties. I use an external 7200, but it'd be nice to be
portable.
Anyone know of any sites where the various Apple laptops' hard drive
speeds are listed?
Mike
Elliott Roper - 27 Feb 2004 00:03 GMT
> I'm on an iBook 600 with 384 megs of ram; I rarely max out the ram but
> I'm regularly pinning the cpu. That said, the biggest bottleneck seems
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Anyone know of any sites where the various Apple laptops' hard drive
> speeds are listed?
For video capture and playback, don't worry too much about rotational
speed. What you are after is sustained MB/Sec that has no hiccups.
I have had two 4200 rpm PBooks that are perfect for video capture and
print. They get away with it because the bits are jammed together like
passengers on the London Underground at five in the afternoon.
Rotational speed becomes more important when you have zillions of
little files you want to access at once. Multi-track audio applications
might benefit from quickly rotating disks.

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...
> I've used MacOS 7.x,8.x and currently 9.2, and although MacOS X (10)
> seems flashy enough I'm a little sceptical as MacOS really was/is a
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> the type who needs the latest and flashiest as long as it does the
> job.
The cheapest would probably be a Pismo PB running 9.2.2 (can run OSX as
well).
I did a fair amount of DV video editing with a Pismo 500MHz, 392 MB RAM,
12 GB hard disk and external Firewire disks. Final Cut Pro 1.2.5
But you might want to compare to newer PB's.
Especially if you have to replace the batteries, a new one is not that
much more expensive.
Of course I do like my new G4 17" PB - lots of real estate on the screen.
HTH
Marc

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(remove the obvious: CHEERS and MERICAL...until end to reply via email)
> I would really like something nice and handy, but which one?
Probably any of the PowerBooks. I think (though I'm not entirely sure,
so check Apple's web site for specs) that all the PowerBooks have the
capability to burn DVDs, while the same is not true of the iBooks. So
digital video will be severely limited on an iBook.
You'll also need to decide whether you want a nice big screen (17" PB
G4) or not. I own a 17" PB and think it was a great purchase. Well
worth it. Others don't value the size as much and won't spend the
extra $$$. It's your choice, but I think for DV editing, the extra
screen space would probably be a nice thing to have.
Also, the 17" has pretty fair speakers installed (IMHO), while the
others have much less capable ones. Audio editing might actually be
possible on the 17" without lugging around extra hardware, though I'd
think you'd still need to "check your work" on good speakers.
> I've used MacOS 7.x,8.x and currently 9.2, and although MacOS X (10)
> seems flashy enough I'm a little sceptical as MacOS really was/is a
> "different" OS from everything else whereas I understand that MacOS
> 10.x is really UNIX/Linux.
Don't let Mac OS X's UNIX roots scare you. (BTW, it has nothing to do
with Linux.) You'll never have to touch them if you don't want, other
than having to think about file permissions. But that's a good change,
IMHO, since it makes it much harder for you (or some poorly-behaved
app) to damage important system files.
Once you get used to OS X, you'll find the lack of crashes absolute
heaven! :-)
> And I've also heard that a lot of programs
> only work on MacOS 8/9 as well
Not really, not anymore. Sure, there are old programs that have not
been updated for OS X, but such programs are few and far between -- or
they're dead, in which case they can hardly be considered to count.
> I've been told
> that some of these newer Macs can only run with MacOS 10, or is that
> just the ability to boot into it, then changing back to MacOS 8 or 9
> once the computer is up and running?
Most newer machines will not boot into OS 9. However, *all* machines
with OS X can run what is called "Classic mode". Essentially, OS 9
starts up entirely within OS X, and runs older software. It's
well-integrated, too -- except for the difference in appearance of
those apps, you might be fooled into thinking they're running in OS X
instead of in Classic. Best of all, if a misbehaving Classic app takes
down the system, it only takes down OS 9 in it's little bubble. It
doesn't touch OS X, so you don't have to reboot, just restart Classic
mode.
> What about cost? How much would I need to spend in order to get
> something decent?
Check out the Apple Store. They've got prices on everything new. I
don't know about secondhand sources, unfortunately. I believe there
are places where you can buy refurbished Macs at a significantly lower
cost, and they should have a full 1-year Apple warranty. I just don't
know where those places are! :-)

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John Johnson - 26 Feb 2004 01:18 GMT
> > I would really like something nice and handy, but which one?
>
> Probably any of the PowerBooks. I think (though I'm not entirely sure,
> so check Apple's web site for specs) that all the PowerBooks have the
> capability to burn DVDs, while the same is not true of the iBooks.
DVD burning is available in some stock configurations, and as a BTO
option on others, including iBooks.
[snip]
> > I've been told
> > that some of these newer Macs can only run with MacOS 10, or is that
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> with OS X can run what is called "Classic mode". Essentially, OS 9
> starts up entirely within OS X, and runs older software.
As nice as classic is, some apps won't run under it, typically because
they access hardware directly (e.g. many sound-editing applications).
Check your list of "absolutely cannot live without" applications for OS
X compatibility before making a purchase decision. As others have said,
while there are some specific applications that aren't available for OS
X, there are applications available for all major segments of work (e.g.
office, video, audio, etc.)
Hallvard Tangeraas - 27 Feb 2004 13:18 GMT
Thanks for the replies everyone!
I'm a little confused though about all the models availble: iBooks,
eBooks, Powerbooks, pismos, old and new portables.... is there an
overview somewhere on the net so I an see what the basic differences
are about?
And yes: a DVD-burner would absolutely be interesting. I forgot to
mention that in my previous message. When I'm done editing all my home
videos I certainly want to preserve all that hard work without any
loss of quality, so digital will be the way to go.
Oh, I also need the ability to read/write 3.5" floppy disk drive as I
exchage small files with my Atari ST, but I suppose this is no bigger
problem than buying a USB floppy drive?
Regarding audio: are there USB devices available for audio and MIDI
input/output, so it's not as much dependable on the computer itself as
in the old days when you had to pop in a card for this and that?
Naturally I would want a computer to have "everything" as it won't be
as expandable as a desktop computer.
Hallvard
John Johnson - 27 Feb 2004 14:39 GMT
> Thanks for the replies everyone!
>
> I'm a little confused though about all the models availble: iBooks,
> eBooks, Powerbooks, pismos, old and new portables.... is there an
> overview somewhere on the net so I an see what the basic differences
> are about?
Apple has two portable computer lines: the iBooks and the PowerBooks.
Apple's web-site has the current offerings listed with convenient
specification tables.
Before the Aluminum PowerBooks, the Titanium PowerBook G4 was around.
It's nice, but a bit delicate. The Pismo is the last G3 PowerBook. I
like it, but it is getting long in the tooth. Current iBooks offer more
power and a similar feature-set (without expansion bays or some of the
video goodies).
Apple keeps specifications of all of its machines available from its
support page. Other mac websites have specifications and comparisons of
these machines in various places. I don't go to those places so someone
else will have to chime in about which ones are the best for you.
[snip]
> Oh, I also need the ability to read/write 3.5" floppy disk drive as I
> exchage small files with my Atari ST, but I suppose this is no bigger
> problem than buying a USB floppy drive?
Just buy the drive. Assuming that file formats are compatible,
everything just works.
> Regarding audio: are there USB devices available for audio and MIDI
> input/output, so it's not as much dependable on the computer itself as
> in the old days when you had to pop in a card for this and that?
There are USB audio and MIDI devices.
HTH
John Biltz - 27 Feb 2004 18:57 GMT
> Thanks for the replies everyone!
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Naturally I would want a computer to have "everything" as it won't be
> as expandable as a desktop computer.
I don't know anything about the audio stuff, don't have a single song on
my computer. But everyone I have ever seen on TV demonstrating audio
stuff from professional song writers and producers to club disk jockeys
has used a power book. I would be surprised if there were USB devices
and they did not connect to a Mac because they seem to be the tool of
choice for most professionals. If you want a floppy drive you can get an
external reader, Mac abandoned the floppy before the rest of the world
did, but they are cheap. For video the simple truth is there is no
substitute for horsepower and horsepower costs money. Looking at the
numbers posted at Apple it looks like the G4 ibooks are roughly
equivalent to the last Titanium powerbooks in terms of performance.
Which means they are that much behind and closer to obsolescence. You
sound as though you are going to be a high end user if you are not
already. My advice is to either:
Get the Powerbook, it gives you the ability to add a lot more ram later
and L2 cache is 512 instead of 256. Its better for what you want now and
later and should keep you happy longer.
Get an ibook knowing your probably going to update to a Powerbook in a
year or so, most people myself included would be happy with the ibook
performance but listening to you, you sound more and more like your going
to be a professional user. In a year the G5 Powerbooks should be out and
there is going to be a big jump not an incremental jump in performance.
Your going to want one even if you buy the Powerbook now.
Steven Fisher - 27 Feb 2004 13:05 GMT
>>I would really like something nice and handy, but which one?
>
> Probably any of the PowerBooks. I think (though I'm not entirely sure,
> so check Apple's web site for specs) that all the PowerBooks have the
> capability to burn DVDs, while the same is not true of the iBooks. So
> digital video will be severely limited on an iBook.
None of the iBooks do. All of the Powerbooks EXCEPT for the low end 12"
have DVD burners.
> You'll also need to decide whether you want a nice big screen (17" PB
> G4) or not. I own a 17" PB and think it was a great purchase. Well
> worth it. Others don't value the size as much and won't spend the
> extra $$$. It's your choice, but I think for DV editing, the extra
> screen space would probably be a nice thing to have.
And some of us value the smaller size. For me, it really wasn't an issue
of cost. I'd gladly have paid *more* for the 12" model, and was just
glad the screen cost more than the extra miniturization.
> Also, the 17" has pretty fair speakers installed (IMHO), while the
> others have much less capable ones. Audio editing might actually be
> possible on the 17" without lugging around extra hardware, though I'd
> think you'd still need to "check your work" on good speakers.
Although, to be fair, a good set of headphones will fix that problem.
NOTE: I'm not trying to put down the 17". It comes down to what you're
most comfortable with. The 17" is faster, but *much* larger and heavier.
> Once you get used to OS X, you'll find the lack of crashes absolute
> heaven! :-)
And if you experience a lot of crashes, IT'S DEFECTIVE RAM.
(I just had this beaten into my head AGAIN today...)
> Check out the Apple Store. They've got prices on everything new. I
> don't know about secondhand sources, unfortunately. I believe there
> are places where you can buy refurbished Macs at a significantly lower
> cost, and they should have a full 1-year Apple warranty. I just don't
> know where those places are! :-)
Final note to OP: Remember to get AppleCare. I don't think you'll find
many arguing against it on a portable (though someone will undoubtably
reply to this to prove me wrong :)

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