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Mac Forum / General / Portable Macs / August 2008macbookpro/aiport problems
G'day Still using airport snow base station (the dual ethernet version), connected via cable modem to Timewarner cable, connected via ethernet and administered by an iMac running tiger 10.4.11. My Powerbook G4 (still using panther) connects to the internet via wifi through the airport flawlessly. My macbook pro running tiger 10.4.11 does not. The macbook pro sees my base station, and can connect to it - I get four bars of signal and in the Internet Connect window the status is "connected to the Shear Network". All well and good. It self-assigns an IP address and is not connected to the internet (and yes I've tried pressing the renew dhcp lease button). most of the time. Sometimes (maybe every couple of hours) it will decide to connect (I know because new messages have appeared in my mailbox), however the connection is transient (sometimes it loses the connection while in the middle of downloading a large mail attachment and is unable to finish it). I've tried rebooting the cable modem and the base station. Right now I'm online by bypassing the base station and directly connecting to the cable modem, so I know my computer can get on the internet via the cable modem. Just not through the wireless network. Is my best option to go buy an airport express or is there something I'm not thinking of? Thanks DrRuth > Still using airport snow base station (the dual ethernet version), > connected via cable modem to Timewarner cable, connected via ethernet [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > middle of downloading a large mail attachment and is unable to finish > it). 1. Is the Airport set to use WEP or WPA encryption? 2. If you are using WEP, are you specifying the WEP key on the MacBook Pro as a dollar sign prefixed hexadecimal string (something like $56f3e4dd924e6c29)?  SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than to me, as E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR G'day > 1. Is the Airport set to use WEP or WPA encryption? WEP. WPA doesn't seem to be an option, probably because the base station is too old. > 2. If you are using WEP, are you specifying the WEP key on the MacBook > Pro as a dollar sign prefixed hexadecimal string (something like > $56f3e4dd924e6c29)? So I'd seen you ask this in some other thread too, so I went out to try and edumacate myself and read a bunch on the web and apple support. It sounds like if you choose a 13 character plain text password, that stops the hashing or whatever it's called, that sometimes results in problems. I switched my base station to WEP 128 bit/ASCII and specified a 13 character ascii password. My powerbook G4 was able to connect no problems. My macbook pro did connect to the wireless network as before but is still unable to see the bigbad internet outside. I did not try a hex string yet. I didn't see anything out there telling me how to choose the hex password. Can you just pick any string (as long as you limit yourself to A-F, and numbers and put an $ in the front)? I will try that next. Thanks for your help. Ruth > G'day > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > character ascii password. My powerbook G4 was able to connect no > problems. > I did not try a hex string yet. I didn't see anything out there telling > me how to choose the hex password. Can you just pick any string (as long > as you limit yourself to A-F, and numbers and put an $ in the front)? I > will try that next. Thanks for your help. If you set the Airport base station to use a WEP 128-bit hexadecimal key, you type in your password, and the Airport base station will generate a hexadecimal key. Then you prefix $ to that hexadecimal string when you connect to the router from your laptop(s). > My macbook pro did connect to the wireless network as before > but is still unable to see the bigbad internet outside. Usually this is an indication that: The password was not supplied correctly when connecting. -OR- The router is configured to use MAC address filtering, and you have not added the MacBook Pro's MAC address to the router's MAC address filter table. SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than to me, as E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR G'day > > My macbook pro did connect to the wireless network as before > > but is still unable to see the bigbad internet outside. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > added the MacBook Pro's MAC address to the router's MAC address filter > table. There is nothing specified in the Access control window, so I'm presuming I'm not configured to use MAC address filtering. So it really is the password - thanks for that clarity. > If you set the Airport base station to use a WEP 128-bit hexadecimal > key, you type in your password, and the Airport base station will > generate a hexadecimal key. > > Then you prefix $ to that hexadecimal string when you connect to the > router from your laptop(s). When using either my macbook pro or my powerbook G4 to join a new airport network, the password drop down menu gives me many options, including WEP 128 bit hex (or ASCII which is what I'm currently using). However, my airport base station admin utility only gives password options of WEP 128 bit. It doesn't allow me to specify ASCII or HEX. Does it automagically convert the ASCII to hex when I specify WEP 128 bit? And if so, how do I see the hexadecimal key that the base station has generated based on the ASCII password I've specified? Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it. Ruth > G'day > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > airport network, the password drop down menu gives me many options, > including WEP 128 bit hex (or ASCII which is what I'm currently using). I'm sure that's the problem. Instead, try using "WEP 128-bit Hexadecimal". > However, my airport base station admin utility only gives password > options of WEP 128 bit. It doesn't allow me to specify ASCII or HEX. > Does it automagically convert the ASCII to hex when I specify WEP 128 > bit? Well, it's not *magic*, but yes - the router generates a hexadecimal string based on the password you provide when setting the Airport base station password. > And if so, how do I see the hexadecimal key that the base station > has generated based on the ASCII password I've specified? Not having ever actually used an Airport base station for any length of time, I'm not sure exactly where you'd find it in the setup utility. I'm sure it's there somewhere though. You are looking for a hexadecimal string of characters similar to this: BAC34DAAAB56B7CADA336B23DA Once you've found that string, on each client system, you will specify "WEP 128-bit Hexadecimal" and supply the hexadecimal string prefixed with the dollar sign ($) character, like so: $BAC34DAAAB56B7CADA336B23DA > Thanks for your help. I really appreciate it. Any time! SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than to me, as E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR > > If you set the Airport base station to use a WEP 128-bit hexadecimal > > key, you type in your password, and the Airport base station will [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Does it automagically convert the ASCII to hex when I specify WEP 128 > bit? For WEP there is always an underlying hex password, which is generated from an ASCII password using a manufacturer-specific algorithm. (This is why Apple base stations and computers can talk to each other using an ASCII password, but you have to use hex passwords with third party base stations.) There is a possibility that Intel and PowerPC Macs use different WEP ASCII/hex conversion algorithms, which might explain the problem you are observing. > And if so, how do I see the hexadecimal key that the base station > has generated based on the ASCII password I've specified? In both Airport Admin Utility and Airport Utility, there is an "Equvalent Network Password" command in the Base Station menu which displays the hex password. SignatureDavid Empson dempson@actrix.gen.nz >> > If you set the Airport base station to use a WEP 128-bit hexadecimal >> > key, you type in your password, and the Airport base station will [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > "Equvalent Network Password" command in the Base Station menu which > displays the hex password. However, if the problem was related to the password, in theory the problem should disappear if you remove wireless security from your configuration and turn it into an open wireless network. However the problem didn't disappear for me and nor (I would guess) will it disappear for Ruth. My hypothesis is that the problem is with the 802.11b, 802.11g and now the draft "n" specification. I think the MacBook tries for some time to negotiate a connection on the "n" specification and eventually drops down to a "b" connection. How could that be proved, though? > However the problem didn't disappear for me and nor (I would guess) will it > disappear for Ruth. Really? The last we heard, the problem had been fixed. You never followed up to that thread; so we have no details about how it reappeared. SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than to me, as E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR >> However the problem didn't disappear for me and nor (I would guess) will >> it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > followed up to that thread; so we have no details about how it > reappeared. You have all the details you need, matey. Thanks for all your help, though. Absolutely invaluable. Now STFU before you lead some other poor soul astray. > >> However the problem didn't disappear for me and nor (I would guess) will > >> it disappear for Ruth. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Thanks for all your help, though. Absolutely invaluable. Now STFU before > you lead some other poor soul astray. 1. I'm not your "matey", pal. 2. How about you make me shut up, bitch. 3. I'm waiting. SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than to me, as E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR > > >> However the problem didn't disappear for me and nor (I would guess) will > > >> it disappear for Ruth. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > 2. How about you make me shut up, bitch. > 3. I'm waiting. ...And just for everyone else's benefit, the last we heard from "The Todal" was this response to my suggestion that he use a dollar sign-prefixed hexadecimal equivalent WEP key generated by the Airport base station on his MacBook to solve his connection problem (which happens to be very similar in symptoms to Ruth's, BTW): In article <6ge4rmFfela9U1@mid.individual.net>, "The Todal" <deadmailbox@beeb.net> wrote: > Look, smartass....no, I withdraw that, because your implausible solution to > my problem has actually worked and I can't understand why. For years I [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Thanks for taking the time to help and may you forever be jolly. Now, all of a sudden, ou of the blue, in another thread altogether, "The Todal" says it's not working anymore, while simultaneously refusing to give any further details. So just who is being unreasonable here? Reader beware. ; ) SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than to me, as E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR >> > >> However the problem didn't disappear for me and nor (I would guess) >> > >> will [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > So just who is being unreasonable here? Reader beware. ; ) 1. I'm afraid your solution actually worked for less than a day. 2. No, I don't know why. I really wish your solution had been better than fool's gold, but fool's gold it certainly was. 3. It's not your fault. However, do try to employ logic when addressing a technical problem. If the root cause was incorrect entering of a WEP key, the problem should disappear if you remove all wireless security, shouldn't it? Well, shouldn't it? Are you paying attention there? Knock, knock? 4. May you forever be jolly. > > Now, all of a sudden, ou of the blue, in another thread altogether, "The > > Todal" says it's not working anymore, while simultaneously refusing to [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > 2. No, I don't know why. I really wish your solution had been better than > fool's gold, but fool's gold it certainly was. Except it's the right answer, as evidenced by the fact that it worked. The fact that it stopped working is a new problem. Something changed or (as a special case of "changed") was reset. > 3. It's not your fault. However, do try to employ logic when addressing a > technical problem. If the root cause was incorrect entering of a WEP key, > the problem should disappear if you remove all wireless security, shouldn't > it? Well, shouldn't it? Of course it should. The most likely explanation is that you have not, in fact, turned off security for the network you're trying to access. Signature"Harry?" Ron's voice was a mere whisper. "Do you smell something ... burning?" - Harry Potter and the Odor of the Phoenix >> > Now, all of a sudden, ou of the blue, in another thread altogether, >> > "The [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > The fact that it stopped working is a new problem. Something changed or > (as a special case of "changed") was reset. Maybe Zeus was angry and sent a thunderbolt. >> 3. It's not your fault. However, do try to employ logic when addressing a >> technical problem. If the root cause was incorrect entering of a WEP key, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Of course it should. The most likely explanation is that you have not, > in fact, turned off security for the network you're trying to access. Your theory makes perfect sense if I am an imbecile who doesn't know how to switch wireless security on and off or, for that matter, doesn't know how to input an IP address and barely knows how to switch a computer on and off. I can't prove my competence to you, so there isn't much point in continuing this conversation really. If I tell you that there are 6 other computers in my household all successfully connected to the wireless router and that at work I am in charge of 35 networked computers, you don't have to believe me. However, if you have a MacBook made within the last 3 months and a non-Apple wireless router (preferably a Draytek Vigor 2800V) let me know how you're getting on. When you've finished experimenting with how to enter the WEP code, let me know what *actually* works. > Your theory makes perfect sense if I am an imbecile who doesn't know how to > switch wireless security on and off or, for that matter, doesn't know how to > input an IP address and barely knows how to switch a computer on and off. The theory also makes perfect sense if you're a human being who is capable of making an error or missing a step. Apologies if you're of a different species. Signature"Harry?" Ron's voice was a mere whisper. "Do you smell something ... burning?" - Harry Potter and the Odor of the Phoenix >> Your theory makes perfect sense if I am an imbecile who doesn't know how >> to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Apologies if you're of a different species. Well, I generally try everything at least 20 times before reaching the conclusion that it isn't working... The way I look at it, if the other wireless laptops (a Mac Powerbook plus IBM and Toshiba laptops) are capable of connecting to the wireless router, both with WEP on and with no security at all, then it is unlikely that I've missed a step. After all, these MacBooks don't offer many configurable options. The hood is firmly welded shut. Unless someone can tell me different. > > Your theory makes perfect sense if I am an imbecile who doesn't know how to > > switch wireless security on and off or, for that matter, doesn't know how [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Apologies if you're of a different species. Forget it. He's being an a.s. I plan to act accordingly from now on. SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than to me, as E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR >> > Your theory makes perfect sense if I am an imbecile who doesn't know >> > how to [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Forget it. He's being an a.s. I plan to act accordingly from now on. Thank you so much. I'd like to pretend to you that you can solve Mac computer problems, to flatter your vanity, but I'm afraid you have proved yourself to be a bit of a disappointment. And you're now so cross about it that you're blaming me. What are you - a teenager with a mum who dotes on you and reckons you're brilliant at sorting out computer problems? I wish you good luck in your IT career - if I were you I'd keep my head down and hope that nobody in the office actually comes to you for advice. > I can't prove my competence to you, so there isn't much point in continuing > this conversation really. I nominate this as CSMS understatement of the week. SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than to me, as E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR > 1. I'm afraid your solution actually worked for less than a day. The most likely explanation for that is because you changed something on the router or on the client that caused it to stop working after the solution I gave you worked. > 2. No, I don't know why. I really wish your solution had been better than > fool's gold, but fool's gold it certainly was. Oh I'm not so sure of that. I've seen these symptoms quite a few times - this has been the answer the overwhelming majority of them. I think you simply changed something, and aren't telling us. You've done that before - no reason to think you wouldn't do it again, right? > 3. It's not your fault. However, do try to employ logic when addressing a > technical problem. I did use logic; and the solution I gave you worked. > If the root cause was incorrect entering of a WEP key, > the problem should disappear if you remove all wireless security, shouldn't > it? Well, shouldn't it? Are you paying attention there? Knock, knock? Did you remove all wireless security? If so, then that just bolsters my suspicion that the reason you say my solution isn't working anymore is because... *drum roll* you changed something. What else did you change that you aren't telling us about, I wonder? > 4. May you forever be jolly. Naturally. SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than to me, as E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR >> 1. I'm afraid your solution actually worked for less than a day. > > The most likely explanation for that is because you changed something on > the router or on the client that caused it to stop working after the > solution I gave you worked. Okay. I'll tell you, so that you know. I shut down my MacBook. Then I started it again. Same problem as before - it connected to the wireless router but took 10 minutes to let me actually use the internet. Helpful? You can now offer a conclusive diagnosis, yes? >> 2. No, I don't know why. I really wish your solution had been better than >> fool's gold, but fool's gold it certainly was. > > Oh I'm not so sure of that. I've seen these symptoms quite a few times - > this has been the answer the overwhelming majority of them. Where did you see the symptoms - in your own computers? > I think you simply changed something, and aren't telling us. You've done > that before - no reason to think you wouldn't do it again, right? Oh, definitely. No reason to think that a computer user wouldn't install new software from time to time, for instance. >> 3. It's not your fault. However, do try to employ logic when addressing a >> technical problem. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > because... *drum roll* you changed something. What else did you change > that you aren't telling us about, I wonder? My underpants.... yes, of course! You're right! Oh wise young judge, how I do honour thee. > G'day > [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > DrRuth Try specifying your own DNS servers. At least as an experiment, try the OpenDNS.org DNS servers: 208.67.222.222 208.67.220.220 System Preferences -> Network -> TCP/IP Bob Harris > > It self-assigns an IP address and is not connected to the internet > > Try specifying your own DNS servers. At least as an experiment, > try the OpenDNS.org DNS servers That would be pointless, considering the wireless interface isn't able to get an IP address from the router... SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than to me, as E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR > G'day > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > Is my best option to go buy an airport express or is there something I'm > not thinking of? It sounds very like the problem I was having (see thread "Airport Dropping Connection") with my new MacBook. You are using an Airport snow base station. I don't know how old that equipment might be. I have been using a Draytek Vigor modem and every wireless computer in my house connects to it instantaneously except for the MacBook (in fact, even changing the way the WEP key was entered, doesn't seem to have been a long-term solution). Eventually I bought an Airport Express, connected it with an ethernet cable to my Draytek DSL modem and then established a connection between the MacBook and the Airport Express - this seems to produce an instant-on wireless connection and is an acceptable workaround for me. I wonder if eventually Apple will issue a firmware or software upgrade for the MacBook's Airport. > It sounds very like the problem I was having (see thread "Airport Dropping > Connection") with my new MacBook. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > MacBook (in fact, even changing the way the WEP key was entered, doesn't > seem to have been a long-term solution). How so? SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than to me, as E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR |
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