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Mac Forum / General / Portable Macs / September 2007



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10.4.10 on a MacBook Intel-- problems/workarounds?

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Eyeball Kid - 15 Sep 2007 05:59 GMT
With 10.4.10 I find that there are two disablities:

1. some DVD disks do not mount.

2. SD disks from either a camera or a reader do not mount.

Any workarounds?

I searched forums for days.

It seems that the only workaround is to downgrade to 10.4.9. I'd like a
better answer.

MacBook with 2gigs RAM, Intel 2 gHz

Thanks

S.a.M.
witfal - 15 Sep 2007 06:11 GMT
> With 10.4.10 I find that there are two disablities:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Any workarounds?

When was the last time you used the disk utility and repaired disk permissions?
Eyeball Kid - 15 Sep 2007 06:46 GMT
> > With 10.4.10 I find that there are two disablities:
> >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> When was the last time you used the disk utility and repaired disk permissions?

Over and over again. Before, after, before, after. I installed the
smaller 10.4.10 version, the combo version, twice, before going back to
the previous upgrade. The reason that I want the latest version is that
i want to use the iWork '08 suite.

E. K.
MuahMan - 15 Sep 2007 07:15 GMT
>> > With 10.4.10 I find that there are two disablities:
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> E. K.

Macs just work. LOL

Plug your SD cards into a real PC runing Windows or Linux and they'll be
read just fine.
Shawn Hirn - 15 Sep 2007 12:04 GMT
> With 10.4.10 I find that there are two disablities:
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> MacBook with 2gigs RAM, Intel 2 gHz

Which DVDs don't mount? Are these pre-recorded DVDs or ones you or
someone else you know burned?

As for your "SD disk" is it just one that won't mount? Multiple cameras?
Same SD chip manufacturer? Same camera manufacturer? If its just an SD
chip from the same camera, you might try contacting the manufacturer of
that camera to discuss the problem or check the camera manufacturer's
web site?
witfal - 15 Sep 2007 14:46 GMT
> Which DVDs don't mount? Are these pre-recorded DVDs or ones you or
> someone else you know burned?
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> that camera to discuss the problem or check the camera manufacturer's
> web site?

Good call on both.
John W. Bast - 15 Sep 2007 13:41 GMT
> With 10.4.10 I find that there are two disablities:
>
> 1. some DVD disks do not mount.
>
> 2. SD disks from either a camera or a reader do not mount.

Greetings! The DVD thing happened to me. zapping the PRAM fixed the problem
for me.

Regards, John
Derek Currie - 15 Sep 2007 18:10 GMT
> > With 10.4.10 I find that there are two disablities:
> >
> > 1. some DVD disks do not mount.
> >
> > 2. SD disks from either a camera or a reader do not mount.

A couple replies:

1) PRAM and NVRAM:

> In article <0001HW.C3114B4C0001E14BB022094F@news.teranews.com>,
>  John W. Bast <jwb@wincom.net> wrote:
>
> Greetings! The DVD thing happened to me. zapping the PRAM fixed the problem
> for me.

The method for resetting the PRAM (parameter random access
memory) and NVRAM (non-volatile ram used by Open Firmware) on
Intel Macs is the classic 4 key command right after by 'BONG' and
bootup:

Command-Option-P-R

There is a question as to how many 'BONG's you should hold down
the keys. Essentially Mac OS X keeps restarting over and over as
long as you hold them down, clearing deeper aspects of the PRAM
and presumably the NVRAM with each bong. The way I always have
done it is 4 'BONG's. (HAHAHAHA! That would get me beyond stoned!
I need a better word. Oh well).

Here is what Apple says:
<http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=2238>

> Resetting PRAM and NVRAM
>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Your computer's PRAM and the NVRAM are reset to the default values. The clock
> settings may be reset to a default date on some models.

Apple's conclusion: 2 'BONG's after you start holding down the
keys.

There is a second method for clearing the NVRAM that still works
on the Intel Macs. But according to Apple it is typically
unnecessary. Nonetheless the instructions linked above have a
section on NVRAM with a link to the commands you can use.

2) DVDs:

> In article <GBSGi.62343$U24.56401@bignews5.bellsouth.net>,
>  Tim Murray <no-spam@thankyou.com> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> > lots of guns and explosions and blood I recommend this.)  Apple DVD player
> > would not play it, but VLC player did.

This sounds mighty funky to me, and I am using 10.4.10 on the
same MacBook design, 3 GB of RAM. If the disk does not mount on
your Desktop, and you have the Finder Preferences set to show
CDs, DVDs, and iPods on the Desktop, then something is either
wrong with the disk (as in it being scratched up nasty bad, or
written incorrectly), or your System / Finder are hosed up
somehow. Try the PRAM clearing above. Also try trashing your
Finder .plist file and forcing it to relaunch. There is also a
System .plist file you could trash as well, then restart the Mac.

That VLC would somehow see and play a disk not mounted on your
Desktop sounds ultra-weird. I could see VLC being able to play a
DVD that was written incorrectly but still has usable video code.
But there is nothing magical in VLC for seeing unmountable disks.
No such thing. Somehow that DVD really is accessible through the
system, but something funked up is preventing it from showing on
the desktop.

These days we have to contend with this evil crap called DRM
(digital rights manglement) as well as 'Marketing Region Coding'
that limit what we can do with a DVD. It is entirely possible
that you could insert a DVD, have it mount on the Desktop, and
NOT have Apple's DVD Player be able to play it IF the disk is NOT
from the 'region' your DVD drive has been set to. The drives
Apple supply let you change the region setting 5 times in DVD
Player before the setting is permanently locked. There may be a
tool or two to unlock this bullsh*t again, depending on your
drive, but I won't go into that here.

Meanwhile you can use VLC to play disks that do not match your
DVD drive's region setting. VLC couldn't care less, thank
goodness. Bless Open Source software.

Trick: NEVER EVER let DVD Player force you to choose a region
setting for your DVD drive when you use a conflicting region
disk. Keep that option open until some dire emergency. If you get
an out-of-my-region disk, Quit out of DVD Player and play the DVD
in VLC instead.

:-Derek

Signature

Fortune Magazine 11-29-05: What's your computer setup today?
Frederick Brooks: I happily use a Macintosh. It's not been
equalled for ease of use, and I want my computer to be a tool,
not a challenge.
<http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2005/12/12/8363107/>
[Frederick Brooks is the author of 'The Mythical Man Month'.
He spearheaded the movement to modernize computer software
engineering in 1975.]

Mark Conrad - 15 Sep 2007 19:50 GMT
In article
<derekcurrie-EB2F99.13100515092007@johnf2.biosci.ohio-state.edu>, Derek
Currie <derekcurrie@mac.com.invalid> wrote:

> The method for resetting the PRAM (parameter random access
> memory) and NVRAM (non-volatile ram used by Open Firmware) on
> Intel Macs is the classic 4 key command right after by 'BONG' and
> bootup:
>
> Command-Option-P-R

I will agree that will reset the PRAM.

...but I will pick a nit about  the NVRAM, it will not do diddly squat
for resetting NVRAM on the new Intel Macs.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Mac>

EFI has replaced Open Firmware on the new Macs.

Mark-
Derek Currie - 15 Sep 2007 21:52 GMT
> In article
> <derekcurrie-EB2F99.13100515092007@johnf2.biosci.ohio-state.edu>, Derek
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> ...but I will pick a nit about  the NVRAM, it will not do diddly squat
> for resetting NVRAM on the new Intel Macs.

Time to read the Apple doc (which is dated May 01, 2007):
<http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=2238>

(Sorry to repeat some of what I previously posted)

> Resetting your Mac's PRAM and NVRAM
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> Your computer's PRAM and the NVRAM are reset to the default values. The clock
> settings may be reset to a default date on some models.

Note please that these instructions include clearing the 'NVRAM'.
So shoot the messenger all you like. Facts are facts.

> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Mac>
>
> EFI has replaced Open Firmware on the new Macs.

My DUH. Sorry. On Intel Macs you can still do the same old
Command-Option-O-F to get to an Open Firmware CLI. But as you
will see in my dissertation below, the interface commands don't
actually reset anything, or so you have to assume from Apple's
documentation.

I might as well quote the Apple doc since we are pursuing the
subject. As the fact about EFI had slipped my mind, I completely
forgot that the next section in this article is NOT applicable to
Intel Macs, which is to say that there is only one way to clear
the NVRAM on Intel Macs, and that is the method quoted above. For
NOT EFI, New World / Open Firmware Macs:

> Resetting NVRAM in Open Firmware
>
> If your computer is Open Firmware-based and you are unable to reset NVRAM as
> described above, you may alternatively reset the NVRAM and Open Firmware
> settings using the steps in the Solution section of Message ³To continue
> booting, type 'mac-boot' and press return².

This paragraph links to an article about clearing Open Firmware:
<http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=42642>

If you dig around in Apple's Help files you can find an article
called 'Setting up firmware password protection in Mac OS X 10.1
or later.' Near the end it goes through the steps for clearing
the NVRAM used by Open Firmware. The last paragraph then verifies:

> Note that Intel-based Macintosh computers do not use Open Firmware. These
> steps do not apply to Intel-based machines.

Nonetheless I can verify that the steps are entirely accessible.
They apparently, however, don't clear the NVRAM. So again, you
are left with ONLY the method Apple prescribe of using the PRAM
clearing key combination for BOTH PRAM and NVRAM.

And digging around further in Apple's Mac Help you can find
"Startup key combinations for Intel-based Macs". The third
keystroke down in the list is:

> Press Option-Command-P-R until you hear two beeps

The description of the purpose of this key command is listed as:

> Reset NVRAM

The old keystroke for clearing NVRAM via Command-Option-O-F is
not even listed, as you would expect since Open Firmware is gone
on Intel Macs.

I could go on, but I think you get the picture.

Apple's help can be confusing since Mac OS X 10.4.x is currently
provided for BOTH PowerPC AND Intel Macs. That means there are
non-applicable to Intel Mac pages still present. Check out the
one entitled '"To continue booting, type 'mac-boot' and press
return" message appears', which I noted above as well. There it
is, ye olde instructions for clearing the NVRAM via Open
Firmware. So don't feel bad about being confused.

In article <13eoc3pn7hirhe1@corp.supernews.com>,
"G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme.com> wrote:

> So don't start some lameass myth and legend (like how the "routinely
> repair permissions" myth has gotten so huge) by posting something saying
> more restarts the better.  If Apple says two bongs then that is all that
> is needed clear PRAM and NVRAM.

Yeah. Agreed. That was my point.

But please don't freak out about the past when indeed we were
specifically told by Apple regarding early PowerPC machines to
hold down the PRAM clearing keys through 'FOUR' beeps (or
'BONGs', hee hee!). Apple's documentation has changed over time
as has their hardware architecture.

:-Derek

Signature

Fortune Magazine 11-29-05: What's your computer setup today?
Frederick Brooks: I happily use a Macintosh. It's not been
equalled for ease of use, and I want my computer to be a tool,
not a challenge.
<http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2005/12/12/8363107/>
[Frederick Brooks is the author of 'The Mythical Man Month'.
He spearheaded the movement to modernize computer software
engineering in 1975.]

Mark Conrad - 16 Sep 2007 02:57 GMT
In article
<derekcurrie-5D2863.16523015092007@johnf2.biosci.ohio-state.edu>, Derek
Currie <derekcurrie@mac.com.invalid> wrote:

> > Your computer's PRAM and the NVRAM are reset to the default values. The
> > clock
> > settings may be reset to a default date on some models.
>
> Note please that these instructions include clearing the 'NVRAM'.
> So shoot the messenger all you like. Facts are facts.

Thanky, I sit corrected.

So much for understanding the "intuitive" Mac.  ;-)

Mark-
Tim Murray - 15 Sep 2007 20:17 GMT
> But there is nothing magical in VLC for seeing unmountable disks.
> No such thing. Somehow that DVD really is accessible through the
> system, but something funked up is preventing it from showing on
> the desktop.

Apple Disk Utility saw the DVD.
G.T. - 15 Sep 2007 20:20 GMT
>>> With 10.4.10 I find that there are two disablities:
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
> Apple's conclusion: 2 'BONG's after you start holding down the
> keys.

So don't start some lameass myth and legend (like how the "routinely
repair permissions" myth has gotten so huge) by posting something saying
more restarts the better.  If Apple says two bongs then that is all that
is needed clear PRAM and NVRAM.

Greg
Signature

Ticketmaster and Ticketweb suck, but everyone knows that:
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Dethink to survive - Mclusky

Thursten Hardon III - 16 Sep 2007 22:28 GMT
>> > With 10.4.10 I find that there are two disablities:
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 43 lines]
>>    sound for the second time.
>>    6. Release the keys.

You neglected;

7) place your finger alongside of your nose
8) spin around three times while saying; " macs always work, macs always
work, macs always work".
9) click your heels together, three times.
10) If that fails, shut down your computer and go do something fun. Or buy a
PC. They always do work.
Randall Ainsworth - 17 Sep 2007 01:08 GMT
> You neglected;
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> 10) If that fails, shut down your computer and go do something fun. Or buy a
> PC. They always do work.

PCs always work. That's a good one.
Mitch - 18 Sep 2007 08:00 GMT
> You neglected;
>
> 7) place your finger alongside of your nose
> 8) spin around three times while saying; " macs always work, macs always
> work, macs always work".

What a moron.
The phrase is that Macs just work; it isn't a promise or guarantee that
Macs cannot stop working in some way.
People who interpret generalizations as absolutes aren't prepared to be
intelligent, here or anywhere else.

> 9) click your heels together, three times.
> 10) If that fails, shut down your computer and go do something fun. Or buy a
> PC. They always do work.
Every Windows user knows that's not true; I wonder who he thinks is
stupid enough to believe it?
Tim Murray - 15 Sep 2007 16:10 GMT
> 1. some DVD disks do not mount.

I rent from Blockbuster on line and watch a LOT of DVDs; I have had one not
mount, Smokin' Aces, and that was just last week.  (By the way if you like
lots of guns and explosions and blood I recommend this.)  Apple DVD player
would not play it, but VLC player did.
Jolly Roger - 15 Sep 2007 16:27 GMT
> With 10.4.10 I find that there are two disablities:
>
> 1. some DVD disks do not mount.
>
> 2. SD disks from either a camera or a reader do not mount.

Something is wrong with your setup, because 10.4.10 does this just fine here.

For the SD cards, try using different USB ports.

Also, if you use a USB hub, try unplugging the power cord from power
and the USB cable from the computer, let it sit for a minute, then plug
it all back in and put the SD card in.  Sometimes USB hubs get into a
bad state and need to be reset.

Signature

Apply rot13 to this e-mail address before using it.

JR

Bob Harris - 15 Sep 2007 17:04 GMT
> With 10.4.10 I find that there are two disablities:
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> S.a.M.

I have found that if my USB memory stick is "Write Protected" it
will not mount.  My USB Memory Stick has a little switch to set it
so ReadOnly, and when I set it, my Mac will not mount it.

Is your SD disk set ReadOnly?

Also what format is on the SD disk?   Hopefully it is a flavor of
FAT or FAT32.

                                       Bob Harris
The Translucent Amoebae - 20 Sep 2007 04:19 GMT
> With 10.4.10 I find that there are two disablities:
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> S.a.M.

This may sound completely crazy; but i've just recently gotten a
macbook ( black ) and i tried inserting a bunch of CD's full of
photographs, and NONE OF THEM would 'mount'...???
so i asked about this on a different newsgroup, and they suggested
that it was somekind of MircoSoft format...??? problem...
But then; a few days later, i noticed that some of them had
fingerprints on them, so i wiped them off, and all of them popped
right up...!!!
i've noticed a similar 'oddness' with several DVD's , in which the
MacBook will faulter and abort playing the DVD at some point, and then
i'll put the DVD in a really crappy Panasonic player i have, and it
won't even bump when it gets to the spot where the MacBook DVD Player
decided that it was unreadable...!!!
i think that comptuers just 'give up' to easily in a wide variety of
situations...???
Steven Fisher - 29 Sep 2007 07:09 GMT
> It seems that the only workaround is to downgrade to 10.4.9. I'd like a
> better answer.

Not that this is a better answer, but it may be more practical: How much
does it bother you? There will probably be a 10.4.11 in the next month.
 
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