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Mac Forum / General / Portable Macs / February 2006



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fan on Pismo's

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Marcintosh - 19 Feb 2006 03:52 GMT
Does anyone have a clue on how to manually trigger the fan in a Pismo?  Im
certain that must be the issue.  After 6 returns to Apple and never
working to full potential I still would like to use the machine.  Now I've
replaced the fan and it still won't.
Any help setting the fan in motion would be appreciated.
mark

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So . . .Where's Bin Laden?

pailface88@yahoo.com - 19 Feb 2006 11:47 GMT
> Does anyone have a clue on how to manually trigger the fan in a Pismo?  Im
> certain that must be the issue.  After 6 returns to Apple and never
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> --

The fan will only come on when the Pismo is hot enough. This is true of
all Apple laptops that have fans. I don't have a Pismo but the fan only
came on once on one of my three 3400's and it was indeed hot at the
time (don't remember the exact temp). It only comes on on my ibook if
it gets up to about 155F and that only happens for me if I am encoding
a video file. Nothing else I do even approaches that high of a
temperature.
John Johnson - 19 Feb 2006 18:02 GMT
> > Does anyone have a clue on how to manually trigger the fan in a Pismo?  Im
> > certain that must be the issue.  After 6 returns to Apple and never
> > working to full potential I still would like to use the machine.

What do you mean "never working to full potential"?

>  Now I've
> > replaced the fan and it still won't.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> a video file. Nothing else I do even approaches that high of a
> temperature.

What pailface88 said. I could get the fan to come on maybe 1/2 the time
while playing a DVD at 80F ambient. I suppose Garageband would probably
be able to get it hot enough as well.

But the goal isn't to get the fan to come on, the goal is to get your
work done. If the computer does what you want and doesn't hang or crash,
who cares if the fan is running?

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Later,
John

johajohn@indianahoosiers.edu

'indiana' is a 'nolnn' and 'hoosier' is a 'solkk'. Indiana doesn't solkk.

matt neuburg - 19 Feb 2006 20:30 GMT
> Does anyone have a clue on how to manually trigger the fan in a Pismo?  Im
> certain that must be the issue.  After 6 returns to Apple and never
> working to full potential I still would like to use the machine.  Now I've
> replaced the fan and it still won't.
> Any help setting the fan in motion would be appreciated.

Why do you want to do this? I had a Pismo as my main work machine for
years and I never heard the fan come on once. m.

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matt neuburg, phd = matt@tidbits.com, http://www.tidbits.com/matt/
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Marcintosh - 23 Feb 2006 06:46 GMT
> > Does anyone have a clue on how to manually trigger the fan in a Pismo?  Im
> > certain that must be the issue.  After 6 returns to Apple and never
> > working to full potential I still would like to use the machine.  Now I've
> > replaced the fan and it still won't.
> > Any help setting the fan in motion would be appreciated.

#1 ? Why do you want to do this? I had a Pismo as my main work machine for
years and I never heard the fan come on once. m.

#2 ?What do you mean "never working to full potential"?

#3 ?But the goal isn't to get the fan to come on, the goal is to get your
work done. If the computer does what you want and doesn't hang or crash,
who cares if the fan is running?

#4 ?It only comes on on my ibook if
it gets up to about 155F and that only happens for me if I am encoding
a video file. Nothing else I do even approaches that high of a
temperature.?

Thank you everyone for the thoughtful replies.  You've raised some valid
points that deserve answers.  Here we go

#1 You are very lucky to have your Pismo work so hard for you.  In my
graduate class this machine was a required (intelligence beyond normal for
administrators)  In a class of nearly 20 grad students fully over half
returned them for various repairs that ran the route.  Though mine was the
only one to be so crippled.  I want the fan to run to cool the machine to
see if that (the high temp) is what is causing it to be unusable.  I find
that if I dislodge the keyboard to allow more air to reach the innards it
takes longer to go into kernel panic.  At this point in time it can sit
idling for about half an hour before k-panic.  If I try to do more than
write a simple HTML file it won't last for fifteen minutes.  iTunes takes
it down in less than ten minutes

#2 Full potential is doing what the machine was designed to do and using
all of it's designed abilities.  Rendering video was a no-go in either
Premier 6 or FCP 1 or 2  Director was always dodgy and Word would tank the
Pismo inside of 20 minutes.  Try to write a thesis in 20 minute sessions.

#3 I realize that the computer should compute and does not exist for the
fan to run.  I put OS X on it and instead of locking up (freezing) it
would go into kernel panic.  I used a utility (and can't for the life of
me remember where I got it)  that would read out the temp in a meaningful
way and
*every* time it read 145deg the utility would lock up and the machine
became un responsive until about 5-10 minutes later it would go into
kernel panic.  Restart was impossible until it returned to near ambient
temp.

#4 My first indication of trouble was when after an entire night 11pm -
7am it failed to render a 3 minute video file (using FCP 2).  In the end
of it's usefulness to me,I could use simple text for some light HTML and
Flash so long as the files weren't too complex.

So, I'm guessing nobody knows how to hack the fan circuit to run.  Thank
you for your efforts and time.  I realize this isn't easy.  Apple has
replaced the RAM the HD, the mother board (2x) the daughter card (2x) and
I'm thinking I'm forgetting something.  I've been looking at using it as a
wall mounted display system.  Just strip the case *off* and install it in
a shadow box and run Q/T slide shows on it.  
If something I've mentioned has triggered an idea please don't be shy.  I
appreciate any and all ideas and suggestions (beyond the sarcastic ones
thank you;-)

Thanks again,
Mark

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So . . .Where's Bin Laden?

John Johnson - 23 Feb 2006 13:44 GMT
> > > Does anyone have a clue on how to manually trigger the fan in a Pismo?  Im
> > > certain that must be the issue.  After 6 returns to Apple and never
[quoted text clipped - 60 lines]
> appreciate any and all ideas and suggestions (beyond the sarcastic ones
> thank you;-)

Well, I'd suspect a RAM fault, possibly even though Apple has replaced
it...but well, if you've got access to different RAM, I'd go ahead and
try it. If you've got access to another Pismo, I'd swap components one
by one (RAM, then CPU, then other components) and see whether or not the
problem travels with one of them.

Also, you don't have to use the internal fan to verify the "it's the
heat" hypothesis. You can use an external fan to cool the machine. If
that's enough to make it stable, then you've got a good idea that it's
the heat. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the internal fan
is not operational. It's quite possible that your machine is unduly
sensitive to heat as a result of other factors.

There's no doubt that you've got a tough case, but the information that
you've provided gives us a much clearer picture of what we should be
thinking about.

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Later,
John

johajohn@indianahoosiers.edu

'indiana' is a 'nolnn' and 'hoosier' is a 'solkk'. Indiana doesn't solkk.

Marcintosh - 25 Feb 2006 06:05 GMT
> > > > Does anyone have a clue on how to manually trigger the fan in a Pismo?  Im
> > > > certain that must be the issue.  After 6 returns to Apple and never
[quoted text clipped - 66 lines]
> by one (RAM, then CPU, then other components) and see whether or not the
> problem travels with one of them.

Learned a lesson there.  F W I W, *Do Not Ever* discard your original
RAM.  Every time it went into the shop it was " . . . and since you don't
have the Apple RAM we'll have to test that for you", *sigh*.  I a fit of
generosity I'd given it away . . .  I've replaced the HD thinking that
since the machine only seemed to freeze on more intensive work (Video but
not writing HTML) it could have been the circuits on the Drive heating up
but no.  The old drive works perfectly in an external case.  Given the age
of the machine I'm reluctant to invest more than a few schekels in other
parts.  I'm sure you understand.

> Also, you don't have to use the internal fan to verify the "it's the
> heat" hypothesis. You can use an external fan to cool the machine. If
> that's enough to make it stable, then you've got a good idea that it's
> the heat. However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the internal fan
> is not operational. It's quite possible that your machine is unduly
> sensitive to heat as a result of other factors.

As I aluded to prior, I've gone as far as removing the keyboard and
running the machine.  The last time I ran the thing like that (if memory
serves me) it ran nearly at will for quite a long time and if it did go
into k-panic it wasn't for a long time.  I'll have to retest this week to
verify my memory.  I have seen heat sensatization of electronics before.
It was on a D2 video deck in '91 or so.  the engineer that found it
deserved a throne as far as I was concerned.
My home is fairly cool (I'm cheap) so I'll test it here and, again at work
(70 by OSHA law) and I'll see what goes on.  Heck, I'll even go as far as
using a fan to test with.

> There's no doubt that you've got a tough case, but the information that
> you've provided gives us a much clearer picture of what we should be
> thinking about.

Again thanks for reaching out on this.  I do appreciate this hugely :-)
Mark

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So . . .Where's Bin Laden?

John Johnson - 25 Feb 2006 15:53 GMT
> > > > > Does anyone have a clue on how to manually trigger the fan in a
> Pismo?  Im
[quoted text clipped - 90 lines]
> serves me) it ran nearly at will for quite a long time and if it did go
> into k-panic it wasn't for a long time.  

Ok, I think that it's safe to call it a heat-related issue. The next
question is "does the internal fan run? I know, we've been here before,
but bear with me... ;-)

The complicating factor is that if some part is defective, it might not
be getting hot enough to turn on the fan but still be hot enough to
cause a kernel panic. We'll ignore this possibility for now.

If you're running the machine without the keyboard, you might be able to
look at the fan to see whether it's running. The Pismo fan is pretty
quiet, and I could not reliably hear mine running, particularly if the
DVD drive was in use. My usual method of determining whether the fan was
running was to stick a piece of paper into the slot until it got slapped
by the blades.

Now then, I once did have an overheating issue with my Pismo. I got on
the phone with Apple, and we ended up resetting PRAM and the PMU, and
that solved it. In my case, the fan simply wasn't turning on, and the
machine would freeze while playing a DVD. I don't think that this will
be the case on your machine though.

Another thing to check: there's a heat pipe running from your CPU to a
heat-sink. It's the thick copper "wire" that you see. It that has cracks
in it, it will be _much_ less effective at doing its job. If that's
cracked, you're done. If not, it might also be worth replacing the
thermal transfer paste on the CPU assembly to improve heat transfer away
from the CPU. Thermal paste is cheap.

Maybe this will do it. If not, well I'll try to think of something else
in the meantime!

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Later,
John

johajohn@indianahoosiers.edu

'indiana' is a 'nolnn' and 'hoosier' is a 'solkk'. Indiana doesn't solkk.

Marcintosh - 27 Feb 2006 07:25 GMT
all ideas and suggestions (beyond the sarcastic ones
> > > > thank you;-)
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 56 lines]
> Maybe this will do it. If not, well I'll try to think of something else
> in the meantime!

I'm on it.  I've called a local supplier for the tape but they wouldn't
sell me any . . .I'll ask the guys in IT if they have a wad of paste or
know hwere to get it.

I have replaced the fan from . . . can't remember where (PBFixit?)  they
seemed reliable and had decent take-apart guides.  Now, I'm no dummy.
I've replaced 3 starters in one day because mine died and two that I
bought from a parts store were toast in the box (yes, now I have a tester
for that).  I will admit that I failed to test the new $9.00 fan (no
tester for these) before I installed it.  So I could have a sour fan
again.
I dragged myself to the machine this past weekend to fire it up (cooler
house in the winter) to see how long it would take to fail now and well .
. . I have a no start condition.  This machine drives me nuts.  My elderly
Wallstreet boots on command and runs OS X 10.2.x like a champ.  8 years
old!  This Pismo is going to wind up as one of those hacked machines doing
service as a digital picture frame when I get it going.  Thinking about
it, I'd like to send it to live with my old Epson 750 Photo.  I
helicoptered that into the transfer station from 30 feet outside the door.
*sigh*
Still appreciating your efforts on my behalf.
Mark
John Johnson - 27 Feb 2006 13:32 GMT
> all ideas and suggestions (beyond the sarcastic ones
> > > > > thank you;-)
[quoted text clipped - 71 lines]
> tester for these) before I installed it.  So I could have a sour fan
> again.

I seriously doubt that your problem is with the fan itself
> I dragged myself to the machine this past weekend to fire it up (cooler
> house in the winter) to see how long it would take to fail now and well .
> . . I have a no start condition.

How old is your PRAM battery?

If it's not the PRAM, then maybe check the Audio/power input board. If
the power connector works itself loose you get no power, and you might
not notice it. This issue is well-known, discussed in this group in the
archives, and easily solved (re-solder the connector).

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Later,
John

johajohn@indianahoosiers.edu

'indiana' is a 'nolnn' and 'hoosier' is a 'solkk'. Indiana doesn't solkk.

matt neuburg - 27 Feb 2006 16:13 GMT
> . . I have a no start condition

Make sure you've reinserted the daughterboard all the way. Push hard on
that puppy! It's easy to get this wrong. Guess how I know that? :) m.

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matt neuburg, phd = matt@tidbits.com, http://www.tidbits.com/matt/
Tiger - http://www.takecontrolbooks.com/tiger-customizing.html
AppleScript - http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0596005571
Read TidBITS! It's free and smart. http://www.tidbits.com

 
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