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Mac Forum / General / Portable Macs / September 2005



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People hurt buying $50 iBooks

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Paul Anderson - 16 Aug 2005 19:27 GMT
Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
iBooks:

  <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050816/ap_on_re_us/computer_frenzy>

Paul

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 OpenVMS Engineering
 Hewlett-Packard Company

John McWilliams - 16 Aug 2005 19:32 GMT
> Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
> iBooks:
>
>    <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050816/ap_on_re_us/computer_frenzy>

What a moronic school district admin.

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John McWilliams

J. Clarke - 16 Aug 2005 22:30 GMT
>> Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
>> iBooks:
>>
>>    <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050816/ap_on_re_us/computer_frenzy>
>
> What a moronic school district admin.

I liked "It's rather strange that we would have such a tremendous response
for the purchase of a laptop computer ? and laptop computers that probably
have less-than- desirable attributes," said Paul Proto, director of general
services for Henrico County."

Perhaps he should have checked ebay.  _Dead_ ones go for more than that.

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(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Michael J. Sherman - 16 Aug 2005 22:07 GMT
> Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
> iBooks:
>
>    <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050816/ap_on_re_us/computer_frenzy>
>
> Paul

Apparently they haven't heard of the concept of a "line" or "queue" in
the Richmond area.  Ahh, my state capital at work...
Leonard Blaisdell - 16 Aug 2005 23:32 GMT
> Apparently they haven't heard of the concept of a "line" or "queue" in
> the Richmond area.

Perhaps they have heard of a 'line', and 'queue' is just a letter ;-)

>  Ahh, my state capital at work...

Good intentions. Unexpected consequences. The story of humanity.

leo

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gimme_this_gimme_that@yahoo.com - 17 Aug 2005 01:56 GMT
I doubt you'd see the same sort of excitement for virus prone older
ThinkPads.
Madhusudan Singh - 17 Aug 2005 02:24 GMT
> I doubt you'd see the same sort of excitement for virus prone older
> ThinkPads.

Older Thinkpads are not virus prone. The "operating" system that is often
found running on them is.
Quiet Desperation - 17 Aug 2005 02:52 GMT
> Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
> iBooks:

People fighting for your product, and USED product at that?

Can't ask for better advertising.

How many non-Mac people saw that story and are now wondering what the
big deal is about these iBook things are?
Michelle Steiner - 17 Aug 2005 19:01 GMT
> > Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50
> > used iBooks:
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> How many non-Mac people saw that story and are now wondering what the
> big deal is about these iBook things are?

Fifty bucks.

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Roger - 17 Aug 2005 20:17 GMT
Too funny:

http://cgi.ebay.com/HENRICO-COUNTY-50-iBook-t-shirt-kicked-in-the-balls_W
0QQitemZ8327177210QQcategoryZ15687QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Rog  :))
Quiet Desperation - 17 Aug 2005 21:17 GMT
> Fifty bucks.

Would people stampede for $50 Dells?

Well, maybe they would, but that's not the point.

Wait... what is the point?
Michelle Steiner - 17 Aug 2005 23:38 GMT
> > Fifty bucks.
>
> Would people stampede for $50 Dells?

Probably.

> Well, maybe they would, but that's not the point.
>
> Wait... what is the point?

Fifty buck computers.

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Quiet Desperation - 18 Aug 2005 04:46 GMT
> > > Fifty bucks.
> >
> > Would people stampede for $50 Dells?
>
> Probably.

Really? Huh. They must be sick.
Gregory Weston - 17 Aug 2005 22:33 GMT
> Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
> iBooks:
>
>    <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050816/ap_on_re_us/computer_frenzy>
>
> Paul

Saw it coming the day I heard about the sale. That was an article
announcing that they had changed the venue to deal with the anticipated
rush. But the article also contained comments from people who were
planning on coming from Very Far Places to stand in line, and that
looked like disaster right there.

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Goal 2005: Convincing James Hetfield to cover the Strawberry Shortcake
"Are You Berry Berry Happy?" song.

Steven Lichter - 18 Aug 2005 01:01 GMT
>>Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
>>iBooks:
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> planning on coming from Very Far Places to stand in line, and that
> looked like disaster right there.

It hit the network news last night.

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Artoi - 18 Aug 2005 02:50 GMT
> Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
> iBooks:
>
>    <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050816/ap_on_re_us/computer_frenzy>

Strange things happen to supposedly civil human beans when the ratio is
wrong.

--
Garner Miller - 18 Aug 2005 03:04 GMT
> > Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
> > iBooks:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Strange things happen to supposedly civil human beans when the ratio is
> wrong.

Indeed they do.

Everybody remember the $40 Wal-Mart DVD player?  Reminisce:

http://www.local6.com/news/2670095/detail.html

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Garner R. Miller
Clifton Park, NY =USA=

Ernie Klein - 18 Aug 2005 03:18 GMT
> > Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
> > iBooks:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Strange things happen to supposedly civil human beans when the ratio is
> wrong.

Looked like the typical day after Christmas sale to me.

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-Ernie-

"There are only two kinds of computer users -- those who have
suffered a catastrophic hard drive failure, and those who will."

            Have you done your backup today?

Steve Hix - 18 Aug 2005 05:13 GMT
> > Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
> > iBooks:
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> --

Like at IKEA openings?
MacUsr - 15 Sep 2005 07:23 GMT
>> Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
>> iBooks:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Strange things happen to supposedly civil human beans when the ratio is
> wrong.

This is my very first Usenet post!

I watched the video, and a person said that their baby was in a baby
carriage, but the father took the baby out of it before the people
trampled over it! The carriage was destroyed. I know someone who lived
near there and they said it is a very low-life, ghetto area.
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Ricky - 18 Aug 2005 23:03 GMT
> Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
> iBooks:
>    <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050816/ap_on_re_us/computer_frenzy>

What a perfect example of how people manage money that's not theirs.
A few minutes on Ebay could have pinpointed a fair price that would
have netted many times the money with no need for security and crowds.
Gregory Weston - 20 Aug 2005 20:08 GMT
> > Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
> > iBooks:
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> A few minutes on Ebay could have pinpointed a fair price that would
> have netted many times the money with no need for security and crowds.

There was actually a specific rationale for setting the price where they
did. Not necessary well-thought-out, but they didn't just pick a number
out of a hat. The intent, regardless of how poor the implementation was,
was to make sure that they were priced such that even the most
financially strapped families could potentially justify one.

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Goal 2005: Convincing James Hetfield to cover the Strawberry Shortcake
"Are You Berry Berry Happy?" song.

R3tr0Geek - 21 Aug 2005 01:01 GMT
>> > Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
>> > iBooks:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> was to make sure that they were priced such that even the most
> financially strapped families could potentially justify one.

Why not sell them on ebay at $50 Buy it now then?  They could of sold them
off real fast and could of avoided all that went on.  Ah our Education
System at work.... LOL
J. Clarke - 21 Aug 2005 01:56 GMT
>>> > Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
>>> > iBooks:
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> off real fast and could of avoided all that went on.  Ah our Education
> System at work.... LOL

The intent was probably to get them into the hands of local students.

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--John
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(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Gregory Weston - 21 Aug 2005 13:21 GMT
> >> > Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
> >> > iBooks:
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> off real fast and could of avoided all that went on.  Ah our Education
> System at work.... LOL

Probably a couple of reasons, although I'm guessing here:

1) eBay's not free (and I'm not just talking about fees). It's entirely
possible that the perceived it would be more work/trouble/effort to do
it online. (And if they had managed it correctly, such perception would
have been right.) But if anything that's probably subordinate to...

2) They probably expected the buyers to be local people. After all, it
was their taxes that paid for the things in the first place. And (see
poor implementation comment above) they probably didn't expect the crush
they got. These are 4-year-old models that weren't terribly
well-regarded when they were new; why would someone travel 3000 miles or
more to get one cheap?

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Goal 2005: Convincing James Hetfield to cover the Strawberry Shortcake
"Are You Berry Berry Happy?" song.

David Coleman - 23 Aug 2005 00:04 GMT
> > >> > Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
> > >> > iBooks:
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> well-regarded when they were new; why would someone travel 3000 miles or
> more to get one cheap?

If Im not mistaken they were offered at-large, but then after a local
uproar only to locals first, or something along those lines.  

DC
David Coleman - 23 Aug 2005 00:03 GMT
> Why not sell them on ebay at $50 Buy it now then?  They could of sold them
> off real fast and could of avoided all that went on.  Ah our Education
> System at work.... LOL

That should be /could have sold them/, not /could of/, since you raised
the question of our education system.

DC
Ricky - 27 Aug 2005 07:28 GMT
> > > Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
> > > iBooks:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> was to make sure that they were priced such that even the most
> financially strapped families could potentially justify one.

But it wasn't their job to feed the computer desires of the public.  It was their
job to extract the highest price out of previously bought items so the public's
taxes weren't wasted.
John Johnson - 27 Aug 2005 15:40 GMT
> > > > Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
> > > > iBooks:
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> public's
> taxes weren't wasted.

No wonder you think government is a failure: you've mistaken it for
business. Money isn't the sole measure of utility.

In particular, since the citizens who paid the taxes for these computers
are the ones who are now using them there is a continuing return on the
tax dollars spent. That utility remains in the community that paid the
taxes, so it's hard to say that they are "losing" the resources that
were purchased. It's also quite possible that the continuing return over
time will be worth more than they could have gotten in a pure sale.

Of course, Ricky will dismiss the above, for two reasons:
(less significant) 1. you can't measure the return, so it doesn't exist.
(primary objection) 2. But only some of the citizens who paid for those
computers got one! People who aren't using a service are paying for it,
and that's wrong in principle!

I've got no sympathy for either position, but this isn't the place or
time for that argument, especially since it's unlikely to change
anyone's opinion on anything. Bye.

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Later,
John

johajohn@indianahoosiers.edu

'indiana' is a 'nolnn' and 'hoosier' is a 'solkk'. Indiana doesn't solkk.

Gregory Weston - 28 Aug 2005 14:12 GMT
> No wonder you think government is a failure: you've mistaken it for
> business. Money isn't the sole measure of utility.
>
> In particular, since the citizens who paid the taxes for these computers
> are the ones who are now using them ....

What gave you that impression? Last I had heard there were no controls
to ensure that locals had the right of first refusal.

> there is a continuing return on the tax dollars spent.

G

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Goal 2005: Convincing James Hetfield to cover the Strawberry Shortcake
"Are You Berry Berry Happy?" song.

TaliesinSoft - 28 Aug 2005 15:32 GMT
> What gave you that impression? Last I had heard there were no controls
> to ensure that locals had the right of first refusal.

My understanding is that the Henrico County iBook sales were oonstrained to
residents of Henrico County, that this was not so at the time of the initial
announcement but that the constraint was added before the actual sale.

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James L. Ryan -- TaliesinSoft

TaliesinSoft - 28 Aug 2005 15:55 GMT
>> What gave you that impression? Last I had heard there were no controls
>> to ensure that locals had the right of first refusal.
>
> My understanding is that the Henrico County iBook sales were oonstrained to
> residents of Henrico County, that this was not so at the time of the initial
> announcement but that the constraint was added before the actual sale.

To confirm my above assertion I undertook a quick Google check and found the
following at

<http://www.henrico.k12.va.us/ibooksale/>

NOTICE - Public sale of iBooks for the general community has been moved from
August 9th to August 16th and now the iBooks will only be available for
residents and taxpayers of Henrico County

Signature

James L. Ryan -- TaliesinSoft

Gregory Weston - 31 Aug 2005 11:49 GMT
> >> What gave you that impression? Last I had heard there were no controls
> >> to ensure that locals had the right of first refusal.
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> August 9th to August 16th and now the iBooks will only be available for
> residents and taxpayers of Henrico County

Thanks for the link/correction.

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Goal 2005: Convincing James Hetfield to cover the Strawberry Shortcake
"Are You Berry Berry Happy?" song.

A. Lurker - 31 Aug 2005 04:46 GMT
> In particular, since the citizens who paid the taxes for these computers
> are the ones who are now using them there is a continuing return on the
> tax dollars spent.

Do you really think those people were taxPAYERS?

C'mon. Be real.
John Johnson - 31 Aug 2005 06:56 GMT
> > In particular, since the citizens who paid the taxes for these computers
> > are the ones who are now using them there is a continuing return on the
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> C'mon. Be real.

Er, the students who were using the computers before surely weren't
taxPAYERS either. Presumably, some of them weren't even children of
taxPAYERS. The point is that the benefits of having those computers
running are still within the community that paid the taxes to purchase
them. Therefore they can, with justification, be claimed still to be
contributing value to those taxpayers.

Again, arguments of the form (or which imply the form): "but someone is
paying for a service which they are not directly using!" or "but
non-monetary benefits don't exist!" will gain no sympathy from me; this
is also not the forum to debate the issue. I've beat that dead horse
enough to know that it's not a profitable debate for any involved.

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Later,
John

johajohn@indianahoosiers.edu

'indiana' is a 'nolnn' and 'hoosier' is a 'solkk'. Indiana doesn't solkk.

J. Clarke - 31 Aug 2005 14:13 GMT
>> > In particular, since the citizens who paid the taxes for these
>> > computers are the ones who are now using them there is a continuing
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> is also not the forum to debate the issue. I've beat that dead horse
> enough to know that it's not a profitable debate for any involved.

If they weren't homeless and living out of garbage cans then they were
almost certainly taxpayers, either directly or indirectly.

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--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

David Coleman - 23 Aug 2005 00:13 GMT
> > Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
> > iBooks:
> >    <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050816/ap_on_re_us/computer_frenzy>
>
> What a perfect example of how people manage money that's not theirs.

My broker does a pretty good job of it. (?)

> A few minutes on Ebay could have pinpointed a fair price that would
> have netted many times the money with no need for security and crowds.

Is there an easy way to handle shipping for 1000 different iBook
winners?  Just curious.

DC
Ricky - 27 Aug 2005 07:29 GMT
> > > Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
> > > iBooks:
> > >    <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050816/ap_on_re_us/computer_frenzy>
> >
> > What a perfect example of how people manage money that's not theirs.

Totally!  We all need a little incentive.

> > A few minutes on Ebay could have pinpointed a fair price that would
> > have netted many times the money with no need for security and crowds.
>
> Is there an easy way to handle shipping for 1000 different iBook
> winners?  Just curious.

You can bet that public workers would be too lazy to find out!
Chris Baird - 27 Aug 2005 11:49 GMT
>>> A few minutes on Ebay could have pinpointed a fair price that
>>> would have netted many times the money with no need for security
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> You can bet that public workers would be too lazy to find out!

Yeah, the school board should've spent $50,000 of the school's money
to hire workers to send off the cheap iBooks to my chop-shop so I
could reauction the laptops on EBay again for a cool $150 profit
apiece. I'm certainly more deseriving than the local community that
actually paid for them. I had a whole LAN running Sniping programs all
set up too...

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Chris

Greg - 27 Aug 2005 17:26 GMT
> > > > Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
> > > > iBooks:
> > > >    <http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050816/ap_on_re_us/computer_frenzy>
> > >
> > > What a perfect example of how people manage money that's not theirs.

Then again, whose money is whose is impossible to determine.

> Totally!  We all need a little incentive.

Like, totally, Veronicaaa!    Dork.

> > > A few minutes on Ebay could have pinpointed a fair price that would
> > > have netted many times the money with no need for security and crowds.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> You can bet that public workers would be too lazy to find out!

Yeah public employees have no bosses, no oversight, no competition, no
hiring/firing process, etc.   In fact, the Henrico taxpayers didn't even
hear about this whole situation.  They were under an information
"blackout" enforced by lazy public workers, easily avoiding scrutiny by
their taxpayer employers.

You're obviously just projecting.   Just because you're so lazy and
irresponsible that you can only imagine the most base kind of incentive
doesn't mean everyone else is that way.

hope this helps,
Greg
Ricky - 29 Aug 2005 20:58 GMT
> > > > > Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50 used
> > > > > iBooks:
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
> irresponsible that you can only imagine the most base kind of incentive
> doesn't mean everyone else is that way.

Put it this way...if those were your iBooks, would you have sold them for
$50 each?  "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" puts
things into a clearer light.  Do you sell your items cheaply to help
someone get a deal that is way below the market price or do you aim for
fair market price?  I just think the taxpayer should have got fair market
price since they were the ones that originally paid for them.  And who
benefitted from this sale?  The bullies did.  The physically strongest
prevailed.  That's not exactly fair in our modern society.
J. Clarke - 29 Aug 2005 20:07 GMT
>> > > > > Looks like people went a little nuts waiting in line to buy $50
>> > > > > used iBooks:
[quoted text clipped - 29 lines]
> someone get a deal that is way below the market price or do you aim for
> fair market price?

I am not the government.  My necessities and obligations differ from theirs.

> I just think the taxpayer should have got fair market
> price since they were the ones that originally paid for them.

The taxpayer isn't going to see a cent of it no matter what the price.  The
best deal for the taxpayer would be to get those machines into the hands of
as many taxpayers as possible following procedures that get them there at
minimal cost to the rest of the taxpayers who do not receive machines.
Your proposal would have the taxpayer pay twice.

> And who
> benefitted from this sale?  The bullies did.  The physically strongest
> prevailed.  That's not exactly fair in our modern society.

The details could have been handled better, but this had nothing to do with
the price.

Signature

--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

TaliesinSoft - 27 Aug 2005 17:56 GMT
This whole Henrico Fiasco could have been handled easily with a modicum of
thought-out preparation....

a) Announce publicly the rules.

b) Take applications from interested parties.

c) Randomly choose from the applications.

d) Inform those who have been selected.

e) Distribute iBooks to those who have been selected.

As an aside, all of the "paperwork", including the random drawing, could be
handled by a simple spreadsheet.

Signature

James L. Ryan -- TaliesinSoft

 
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