So many portables -need help to choose!

Thread view:

Enable EMail Alerts

Start New Thread

Thread rating:

Hallvard Tangeraas - 28 Apr 2004 14:41 GMT

I've decided that I want a portable computer (Mac to be exact) as I've
had it with my bulky,heavy Macs with big,bulky monitors, loads of
wires and bits and pieces cluttering up my desk (and actually needing
a desk on its own). I'm in for the minimalist way!

But as I haven't kept in touch with what's been going on in the
computer world I find it very confusing to decide which one to go for
as there are so many versions and models with seemingly the same names
(i.e. different speeds but the same name such as "Powerbook G4").

I understand that I need a pretty powerful machine as I will be using
it for video editing, and perhaps even making music (MIDI and audio).
It will probably be outdated in a year or less, but the current G4
models should do, right? (and about outdated gear: as long as *I* can
do what I want my computer to do it really doesn't matter if it will
be "old" a few years from now. I'm not the kind of person who spends a
fortune every little while just to get the latest computer gear. It's
just a tool for me).

So, regarding what's currently available there are the iBooks and the
Powerbooks, and they all come in 3 screen sizes and at least the
Powerbooks can be ordered with or without the CD/DVD writers
("Superdrive"), so which one to go for?

Should I forget about the iBooks? Are they just expensive toys? I've
been told that the Powerbooks are much more "pro" and better suited
for video editing and music, but I personally have no experience in
this and wouldn't know.

And about the screen sizes. The 12" models are of course the cheapest
of the lot,but is a 12" screen on a portable too small? A 12" external
monitor is very small indeed, but I guess it's different with a
portable since you're closer to the screen.
I could of course connect an external monitor to it later (I assume
that's possible: a "normal" PC monitor or a special Mac-only monitor),
but that sort of defeats part of the purpose of buying a portable
machine, because I don't want too many bits and pieces.

And I'm under the impression that there are some other differences
between the different sizes as well, such as the ability to upgrade
less memory to the 12" than the 15" and 17" models, and a different
graphic processor card as well.
Will any of this be of importance to me?

And about the "Superdrive"...I like the idea about having a CD and DVD
reader as well as a CD and DVD writer as part of the machine!! But
I've been told that it only accepts a few DVDs for writing and that it
doesn't work as well as you'd hope it would. Is this true? What kind
of problems?

The reason for a DVD writer will be to finalize my home videos so I
can let other people watch them on a regular DVD player.

If the Superdrive doesn't work as well as advertized, would a better
option be to buy a Powermac with just the standard CD-ROM drive, then
replace it with a 3rd party CD/DVD writer (are they available in that
small size which will fit inside the machine?), or an external CD/DVD
writer? Again, I wouldlike to avoid too many external things as that
would again clutter my desktop,add lots of extra wires etc. But if
there's no way around it, well....

Another thing.... a bigger or additional hard drive. The little I've
read about the subject of video editing I've heard that it's highly
recommendable to use a separate drive just for this.
Would that mean an external drive, or could I fit a second drive
inside the machine, or just buy a HUGE drive to put inside the machine
and partition it so that the video editing stuff uses a partition for
itself?

If I am to use an external drive, what should I be looking for when it
comes to size, speed etc. And what kind of connection would it be
having? USB? Furewire= SCSI?

ANything else? Oh,an additional mouse....
I haven't used laptops that much, but I find it very hard to control
the mouse pointer, so a normal mouse might just be the thing (but it
would be nice to avoid as it would once again clutter the desktop). Is
the "mouse" thingy (forgot the name of it) on the Powerbook something
that's perfectly usable once you get used to it, or really nothing to
be used in the long run?

Anything else I've left out here that I should keep in mind?
I'd like to spend as little money on all of this as I can, but still
end up with something that I can use as a good tool.

Hallvard

Reply to this Message

John Johnson - 28 Apr 2004 15:33 GMT

> I've decided that I want a portable computer (Mac to be exact) as I've
> had it with my bulky,heavy Macs with big,bulky monitors, loads of
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> as there are so many versions and models with seemingly the same names
> (i.e. different speeds but the same name such as "Powerbook G4").

It would be a good idea to head over to Apple's website and look at the
tech specs for the PowerBook and iBook lines. Apple has both detailed
specifications for each machine, and a handy grid that allows comparison
between different models.

> I understand that I need a pretty powerful machine as I will be using
> it for video editing, and perhaps even making music (MIDI and audio).
> It will probably be outdated in a year or less, but the current G4
> models should do, right?

Any of the current partable models are better than the PowerBooks
availble when FCP was released. Whether a given model will do or not
depends on whether you've got income riding on it (get the fastest
possible machine, it will pay for itself), and how big of a machine you
are willing to live with. Obviously, any portable computer is a
compromise.

> So, regarding what's currently available there are the iBooks and the
> Powerbooks, and they all come in 3 screen sizes and at least the
> Powerbooks can be ordered with or without the CD/DVD writers
> ("Superdrive"), so which one to go for?

iBooks only come in two screen sizes: 12" and 14" Both screens have the
same maximum resolution (which is lower than that of a PB), so the 14"
just makes things bigger. This can be a real benefit.

> Should I forget about the iBooks? Are they just expensive toys? I've
> been told that the Powerbooks are much more "pro" and better suited
> for video editing and music, but I personally have no experience in
> this and wouldn't know.

If you look at the specifications, you will see that the PowerBooks have
features that the iBooks lack, but that doesn't mean that the iBooks are
useless. You pay significantly more for the PowerBooks, and whether that
money is worth spending depends greatly on what you do. Again, if you're
video editing, faster machines will make things faster (in contrast to
word-processing, where you may not notice the extra speed).

> And about the screen sizes. The 12" models are of course the cheapest
> of the lot,but is a 12" screen on a portable too small? A 12" external
> monitor is very small indeed, but I guess it's different with a
> portable since you're closer to the screen.

You will run out of space very quickly on a 12" screen, especially if
you need many open windows at a time. Of course, you may hook up an
external monitor (but only the PowerBooks allow monitor spanning-there
is a software hack to enable this on the iBook, but all that I know
about it is that it's likely to void your warrantee), and the
specifications will tell you what video-out ports each computer has, as
well as which adapters are supplied.

> And I'm under the impression that there are some other differences
> between the different sizes as well, such as the ability to upgrade
> less memory to the 12" than the 15" and 17" models, and a different
> graphic processor card as well.
> Will any of this be of importance to me?

For video editing, the performance of the graphics card could be quite
important. You might look for reviews/opinions of the graphics cards in
each model; it could help you decide between computers.

> And about the "Superdrive"...I like the idea about having a CD and DVD
> reader as well as a CD and DVD writer as part of the machine!! But
> I've been told that it only accepts a few DVDs for writing and that it
> doesn't work as well as you'd hope it would. Is this true? What kind
> of problems?

The problems that I've seen here (I don't own a superdrive) are often
people wishing to read/write DVD+R. The superdrive only supports DVD-R
(and all of the various CD formats).

> The reason for a DVD writer will be to finalize my home videos so I
> can let other people watch them on a regular DVD player.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> small size which will fit inside the machine?), or an external CD/DVD
> writer?

I assume that you mean buying a PowerBook and attempting to swap drives.
Don't. Getting into a PowerBook takes patience and some skill, and is
best avoided if possible.

> Another thing.... a bigger or additional hard drive. The little I've
> read about the subject of video editing I've heard that it's highly
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> and partition it so that the video editing stuff uses a partition for
> itself?

You're better off with an external drive, not just different logical
partitions. This doesn't mean that you don't have to worry about the
size of your internal drive, nor does it mean that you absolutely have
to use the external drive when editing video. I'm sure that others can
comment on this subject with more direct experience.

> If I am to use an external drive, what should I be looking for when it
> comes to size, speed etc. And what kind of connection would it be
> having? USB? Furewire= SCSI?

Get a FireWire drive. If you choose well, the external case might have
both USB and FireWire ports, but almost all Macs with USB have FireWire,
so it's not usually so important.

> ANything else? Oh,an additional mouse....
> I haven't used laptops that much, but I find it very hard to control
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> that's perfectly usable once you get used to it, or really nothing to
> be used in the long run?

I find my trackpad to be perfectly usable. I've run into some situations
when I would have preferred a mouse, but not many. I think that you'll
just have to try it out and see how you feel about it. Many people who
get an external mouse do so in part so that they can have extra buttons
and a scroll wheel. No Apple mouse has more than one button.

HTH

Reply to this Message

Thomas Reed - 28 Apr 2004 15:53 GMT

> I understand that I need a pretty powerful machine as I will be using
> it for video editing, and perhaps even making music (MIDI and audio).

For this sort of thing, you'll need to get the fastest machine you can
afford.

Well, really, you need to evaluate the specs for each one and either
eliminate it from the running (for example, if it doesn't have built-in
AirPort and you want wireless, you can eliminate it) or rank it based
on features you want. But I'll answer some of your other questions.

> And about the screen sizes. The 12" models are of course the cheapest
> of the lot,but is a 12" screen on a portable too small?

It would be for me, but others have different feelings. What's the
smallest screen you've ever used? Did it feel good, or were you
feeling "cramped" the whole time?

> A 12" external
> monitor is very small indeed, but I guess it's different with a
> portable since you're closer to the screen.

Not necessarily. If it's on your lap, you may even be further away,
depending on how close you usually sit to your monitor.

Possibly, hard to say. I'm not sure about the memory thing, but for
video and audio editing, you probably want lots of memory, so don't
limit yourself too much. Check out the specs to make sure. Keep in
mind that OS X is very memory-hungry. I'd say, for what you're doing,
512 MB would be a minimum.

Yes, this is true, but if you get good advice early on, you won't have
trouble.

First -- there are several kinds of DVD. There are rewritable DVDs,
but I don't think you can use those (not 100% sure, as I haven't tried
any, but I believe Apple says you can't rewrite DVDs). Among
write-once DVDs, there are two types: DVD-R and DVD+R. Yes, the only
difference is the - vs +, and that difference is actually meaningful!
You can read a DVD+R in your superdrive, but you'll never write to one.
You need DVD-R.

Second, DVD writing is much more sensitive to media than CD writing.
For an example, I bought a bunch of Verbatim DVD-Rs, knowing that
Verbatim CD-Rs are good. I wrote some DVDs with digital video, and
discovered my DVD player wouldn't read them. My computer would, but
not my player. Talking to someone at an Apple Store, I discovered that
only Apple or maybe Memorex media are any good for making DVDs that
work in a wide variety of hardware. I bought some Apple DVD-Rs, burned
one, and it works like a charm in my DVD player.

So, bottom line -- buy DVD-Rs, preferably Apple DVD-Rs.

Also, note that burning a DVD is time-consuming. It took me 4+ hours
to burn a 90-minute video DVD. I don't know if this is due to iDVD or
if it's just inherent in the process of producing a DVD.

> If the Superdrive doesn't work as well as advertized, would a better
> option be to buy a Powermac with just the standard CD-ROM drive, then
> replace it with a 3rd party CD/DVD writer

I don't think third-party drives work with iDVD. You're probably best
off with the Apple drive. It works fine, once you've learned the
quirks of DVDs (which appear to be more related more to the relative
youth of the process).

> Another thing.... a bigger or additional hard drive. The little I've
> read about the subject of video editing I've heard that it's highly
> recommendable to use a separate drive just for this.

Yes indeed. I've got 23-minutes of digital video sitting on my hard
drive right now, and it takes up 4.7 GB. I bought an external 160 GB
hard drive to store my video.

You cannot fit a second drive into a PowerBook. You could probably put
in a larger drive. That's up to you. I think, though, that I prefer
not to have *all* my digital video sitting on the hard drive in my
laptop. It's safer on a hard drive sitting securely on a shelf. I
don't have to worry about losing it or dropping it, and backing this
stuff up is hard without yet another large drive for backups.

> ANything else? Oh,an additional mouse....
> [...] Is
> the "mouse" thingy (forgot the name of it) on the Powerbook something
> that's perfectly usable once you get used to it, or really nothing to
> be used in the long run?

I use it every day, and like it better than a regular mouse. I don't
have to keep an area on my desk clear to wave a mouse around. But
different people like different things, so you'll just have to try it.

If you buy an external mouse, one option you could consider is a
wireless Bluetooth mouse, which should work with any of the laptops
that support Bluetooth. I don't have any experience with such mice,
but the idea of no wires is pretty darn cool.

Signature

-Thomas

<http://www.bitjuggler.com/>

Reply to this Message

Elliott Roper - 28 Apr 2004 16:48 GMT

With very similar criteria to yours, I chose a Powerbook 12" with
superdrive.
Best portability of all of them.. I 'downgraded' from a 15" TiBook. It
was too much hassle to lug about.

I don't get bitten by screen size. At my desk(s) I have second
monitors. Two screens and a television monitor is plenty for Final Cut
Pro. You don't need a special graphics card for editing DV on FCP. Most
of the real time video processing is done by the camera or deck when
previewing on TV.

I second the idea of one or more external firewire disks for video
editing. I use a Wiebetech drive dock to plug in any old disk drive.
Great for avoiding recapture of assets. Bare disks are nearly as cheap
as DV tape.

My one concern for you is music editing. I don't do that. I have been
told that a very quickly rotating disk is important. Maybe a 10,000 rpm
on firewire will do. Don't even think of changing the drive inside your
Powerbook. Not because it is impossible, more like there is no point.
You don't get many more GB, you can't afford the loss of bettery life
and the heat build-up with a quick one in there

The superdrive is nice to have built-in for shipping the home movies.

The 12" Powerbook only has 400Mbit/sec firewire. It works fine for DV,
which is 25Mbit/sec.

Get as much memory as you can afford.

If portability is really important to you, get the airport card. Now
there are plenty of hotspots, it is great to pull the thing out and
just use it. I use the built-in bluetooth with my phone when all else
fails. It is great to grab your mail without wires, or even taking the
phone out of your packet.

Finally, I'm happy to use the trackpad when I have to, but the
bluetooth mouse is utterly ace. It is amazing how a lack of wire makes
everything less hassle to carry and use.

Hope that helps you decide.

Signature

I thought I would be the last on earth to mangle my e-mail address.
fsnospam$elliott$$

Reply to this Message

Davoud - 28 Apr 2004 18:32 GMT

Hallvard Tangeraas:

> I've decided that I want a portable computer (Mac to be exact)

> I understand that I need a pretty powerful machine as I will be using
> it for video editing, and perhaps even making music (MIDI and audio).

You need a 1.5 GHz PowerBook with 17" monitor, 128MB VRAM, and not less
than 1GB of RAM.

> It will probably be outdated in a year or less...

No, it won't. I am still able to use my old PowerBook Titanium
G4/667/1GB <http://www.davidillig.com/cinema.shtml> for video editing
with Final Cut Pro.

> ...Powerbooks can be ordered with or without the CD/DVD writers
> ("Superdrive"), so which one to go for?

As above -- for video editing, the 17" and definitely a Superdrive.

> Should I forget about the iBooks?

For your purposes, yes.

> And about the screen sizes. The 12" models are of course the cheapest
> of the lot,but is a 12" screen on a portable too small?

For your purposes, yes. You need screen space for video and audio
editing.

> I could of course connect an external monitor to it later (I assume
> that's possible: a "normal" PC monitor or a special Mac-only monitor),
> but that sort of defeats part of the purpose of buying a portable
> machine, because I don't want too many bits and pieces.

Not necessarily. See the above URL. The PowerBook serves nicely as both
a desktop and a portable.

The SuperDrive works as well as I would hope. I haven't had any
problems. I use Apple-branded DVD-R's and they are of high quality and
none has failed to play in a set-top DVD player.

> If the Superdrive doesn't work as well as advertized...

It works as well as advertized.

> If I am to use an external drive, what should I be looking for when it
> comes to size, speed etc. And what kind of connection would it be
> having? USB? Furewire= SCSI?

There are no "huge" drives available for the PowerBooks. I use two
120-GB external FireWire drives (soon to be replaced by two larger
drives, 250GB or larger.) Make sure you get 7200RPM drives. I like the
OWC Mercury Elite series because I've been using them for several years
without a problem.
<http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_Page.cfm?Parent=681&Title=&Template=1>
.

> ANything else? Oh,an additional mouse....
> I haven't used laptops that much, but I find it very hard to control
> the mouse pointer

Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer, wired or wireless.

> Anything else I've left out here that I should keep in mind?
> I'd like to spend as little money on all of this as I can, but still
> end up with something that I can use as a good tool.

You're going to have to spend a considerable amount of money for the
machine that you have described. A quick look at the Apple Store shows
$3,428 for a 17"/1.5GHz/1GB RAM/128MB VRAM/80GB 5400 RPM HD/Extra
Battery. Add Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro, and the external drive(s)
and you're now at $5,000.00. You've also got quite a few pieces that
you may not have wanted -- some of the stuff that would be inside a
tower is now attached to your PowerBook externally.

My view? Worth every penny.

Davoud

Signature

usenet *at* davidillig dawt com

Reply to this Message

John Biltz - 29 Apr 2004 01:26 GMT

> Hallvard Tangeraas:
>> I've decided that I want a portable computer (Mac to be exact)
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> You need a 1.5 GHz PowerBook with 17" monitor, 128MB VRAM, and not less
> than 1GB of RAM.

How much video editing do you do? If you are a professional video editor
whose living is derived from it, I agree. If you make videos once in
awhile that is serious overkill. Any ibook will do video editing, the
more you spend the faster it will do it. That is the bottom line, no
getting around it. Like anything else there is a performance to dollar
curve. To get that last 10% of performance it is going to cost you a lot
more than 10% more. But any computer will do it, just slower.

>> It will probably be outdated in a year or less...
>
> No, it won't. I am still able to use my old PowerBook Titanium
> G4/667/1GB <http://www.davidillig.com/cinema.shtml> for video editing
> with Final Cut Pro.

I don't see the G5 Powerbooks coming out soon. I would have guessed this
summer but IBM is having production problems and Apple can't fill orders
now so I don't see them using it in a new product until it can.

>> ...Powerbooks can be ordered with or without the CD/DVD writers
>> ("Superdrive"), so which one to go for?
>
> As above -- for video editing, the 17" and definitely a Superdrive.

I agree, if your going to be doing video editing you need the Superdrive.

>> Should I forget about the iBooks?
>
> For your purposes, yes.

I disagree. Two weeks ago I would have agreed but those upgrades to the
ibook line makes them an inexpensive alternative for the casual editor. I
have not seen performance numbers yet but I think the high end ibooks are
going to be pretty close to the low end Powerbook. The old numbers are
not as different as you think. When the Powerbooks switched to the AL
from the Ti going to 512 cache and 1.25 there was a 25% boost in
performance. I think we may see that here too.

http://macspeedzone.com/html/hardware/machine/comparison/portable/powerboo
k/index.shtml#Processor

>> And about the screen sizes. The 12" models are of course the cheapest
>> of the lot,but is a 12" screen on a portable too small?
>
> For your purposes, yes. You need screen space for video and audio
> editing.

Depends on your eyes, high resolution small screens means trouble to me
but I wear bifocals. For me bigger is better. You really need to look at
them side by side. The thing with the 12" is it is meant to be portable
and sacrifices for that goal. Look at the Apple Powerbook page and in the
side by side comparison you lose gigabyte ethernet, video out
connections, firewire 800 and have a different video card. And that is
just the highlights.

>> I could of course connect an external monitor to it later (I assume
>> that's possible: a "normal" PC monitor or a special Mac-only monitor),
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Not necessarily. See the above URL. The PowerBook serves nicely as both
> a desktop and a portable.

Yes, they do.

>> Another thing.... a bigger or additional hard drive. The little I've
>> read about the subject of video editing I've heard that it's highly
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> without a problem.
> <http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_Page.cfm?Parent=681&Title=&Template=1>

I have 60GB on my Ti and it is something I have to keep on top of. I
don't think I've seen a larger laptop drive than 80Gb for any laptop,
Windows or Mac. If you are doing video editing your going to need empty
space on the hard drive so the computer has room to work with the movie
on the drive.

Tons of choices for external drives. I have an older USB 2.0 80Gb that I
have filled and am looking for a 160GB now. I can move around a GB every
3 minutes at a sustained rate. For video editing a firewire 800 would
probably be best. Certainly it would be fastest. External Hard drives are
sort of tricky to buy. Small ones seem to cost almost as much as medium
ones and the price starts going back up at the big end. 160GB seems to
be the middle right now. I figure GB/$. The thing is you can have as
many as you want and the prices keep dropping.

>> ANything else? Oh,an additional mouse....
>> I haven't used laptops that much, but I find it very hard to control
>> the mouse pointer
>
> Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer, wired or wireless.

I like to use a trackball. Never understood why mice are more popular.
The best track pad is not as easy to use as a mouse. If they were you
would see them sitting beside desktops and you don't. Most laptops users
get used to using the track pad because they carry it and don't want to
carry a mouse as well.

>> Anything else I've left out here that I should keep in mind?
>> I'd like to spend as little money on all of this as I can, but still
>> end up with something that I can use as a good tool.

The connectors in the back. What do you need for the audio editing? I
have no idea. A USB may be fine.

> You're going to have to spend a considerable amount of money for the
> machine that you have described. A quick look at the Apple Store shows
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> you may not have wanted -- some of the stuff that would be inside a
> tower is now attached to your PowerBook externally.

I don't think he described money is no object for performance, I want the
best system money can buy.

Low end alternative, 14" ibook with Superdrive and 768 ram, $1,800 You
could buy two of these for that Powerbook. Have on to use while the other
one takes the extra time to render and have an extra 40GB combined hard
drive space.

Middle alternative, 15" Powerbook, 1.5Ghz/1GB RAM/64mb VRAM/80GB 5400 RPM
HD $2,950. Pay the $50 for the faster 5400 HD its worth it. You can save
a little buying the ram somewhere else. Your saving $500 for a smaller
screen and a slower video card.

I would really like to some performance numbers for the updated system. I
really don't think the Powerbooks are going to come out well on dollars
for performance. If it was me, I don't think I would buy a powerbook
right now and I like Powerbooks.

Reply to this Message

Bob Harris - 28 Apr 2004 23:49 GMT

> I've decided that I want a portable computer (Mac to be exact) as I've
> had it with my bulky,heavy Macs with big,bulky monitors, loads of
[quoted text clipped - 82 lines]
>
> Hallvard

I'm not going to go point for point, but here are a few things to
consider.

iBooks are great machines, but for serious video editing, I suspect it
would be under powered (I own a 14" G4/1GHz iBook, and like it very
much, but I do very little graphics editing, so the few times I mung a
picture the speed doesn't really bother me). But for what you say you
want to do, I think you want a Powerbook which gives faster CPUs, faster
memory bus, more memory capacity, faster disks, more pixels on the
screen, larger screens, etc...

If you just want this to be an around the house portable, then size is
less of an issue. Get the 15" or 17".

If at all possible, get to an Apple Store (or Apple Dealer) and
physically handle them. If the 17" is too awkward for you, then go for
the 15".

If you are going to be a "Road Warrior" with this thing, then weight and
size may be important, and then look at the 12" Powerbook or the 15". I
suspect that for a road warrior the 17" might be just a bit too large.
Again, being able to physically play with them can make a huge
difference.

Video editing wants lots of memory. Get as much as you can.

Get the faster RPM disk drive. The default 4200 RPM disks take longer
to read and write large files. You will benefit from having the faster
RPM drives.

Firewire or USB 2 external disks (huge disks) for extra storage.

Regarless of whether you are going to be a road warrior or a stay at
home user, get the Airport Extreme card, and an 802.11g compatible base
station. This will allow you to take your system to the couch, the
porch, the bedroom, etc... Maybe most of the time you will work at your
desk, but there are days when you just want to be somewhere else, and
being wireless will let you do that.

One thing to consider. If your existing desktop system supports huge
disks, or attaching firewire disks, then you might consider keeping it,
just putting it out of they, and using it as a file server that you
access via the wireless network. You might not want to use network
attached disks as an work area, as your transfer speeds over the
wireless network may not be as fast as you like, but it could be used to
archive files that you copy to your laptop disk when you need to work on
them, and then copy them back. It might be a way to allow you to remain
less tethered to one location.

One final idea, and this one will really cost you :-) If video editing
is important to your livelyhood, then you might consider getting a high
end G5 tower, with lots of disk, and up to 8GB of memory to do your
editing, _BUT_ stick that in the corner, and _ALSO_ get a nice laptop as
your display device. Then use Timbuktoo, or Chicken-of-the-VNC and
OSXvnc to control the G5 remotely over your home wireless network. This
gives you maximum editing power, but untethered roaming ability in your
home. Of course you will have now spent a ton more money then just
getting a laptop, but what a way to go :-)

Enjoy.

Bob Harris

Reply to this Message

Pete Verdon - 28 Apr 2004 23:43 GMT

>> I've decided that I want a portable computer (Mac to be exact) as I've

> I'm not going to go point for point,

Perhaps you might have considered snipping some of Hallvard's post, then?

> One final idea, and this one will really cost you :-) If video editing
> is important to your livelyhood, then you might consider getting a high
> end G5 tower, with lots of disk, and up to 8GB of memory to do your
> editing, _BUT_ stick that in the corner, and _ALSO_ get a nice laptop as
> your display device. Then use Timbuktoo, or Chicken-of-the-VNC and
> OSXvnc to control the G5 remotely over your home wireless network.

Nice idea! I suspect I'm going to end up doing something like that with my
new Powerbook, since I don't know that I'm ready to stop using my trusty
Linux desktop just yet but I'm stealing its monitor for use with the PB. Of
course, with Linux the remote working options are more varied - remote X
allows you to have an otherwise normal-looking window on the screen, which
just happens to belong to a program running on another machine, as well as
the desktop-in-a-window of VNC. Or there's command-line stuff via SSH.

I've actually got the necessary hardware to use a good old serial terminal
for access, but I haven't used this for some time!

Pete

Reply to this Message

Hallvard Tangeraas - 29 Apr 2004 15:51 GMT

> If you just want this to be an around the house portable, then size is
> less of an issue. Get the 15" or 17".
>
> If at all possible, get to an Apple Store (or Apple Dealer) and
> physically handle them. If the 17" is too awkward for you, then go for
> the 15".

Good idea.
I don't have any plans on lugging a computer around. It's more for
"simplifying" my life as I've had it with "computer rooms" where there
are tons of cables, huge monitors, external boxes etc.
I like the idea of having one small box with everything (more or less)
built in, and now with the Superdrive I'll even have the CD and DVD
writer inside the same machine!

And if it's a nice day outside and I'd like to work on something but
not waste the day staying inside I can do both with a portable!

Apart from the screen sizes I've noticed that there are some other
technical differences between the 12" and the 15/17" models. Do these
specs matter?
Or are they basically just different graphic cards because the bigger
screens will need them?

I might consider the 15", but not the 17".It's too big, and I'm
already stretching it money wise.

> Video editing wants lots of memory. Get as much as you can.
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> Firewire or USB 2 external disks (huge disks) for extra storage.

I'm a little confused about the hard drives as I'ma bit stuck in the
stone age when it comes to these things. I'm used to SCSI.

Are Firewire and USB drives actually some very special, new drives, or
is it just the *interface* that's USB or Firewire while the drive
mechanism is just plain old SCSI or IDE?

I've seen external drive boxes for sale (neat,small metal boxes) here
in Japan (saw them in Hong Kong as well). Could I just buy one of
those and eventually buy the drive mechanism at home when I can afford
it? Does the external case need a power supply as well, or is power
provided through the Firewire or USB cable itself, from the Powerbook?

> One final idea, and this one will really cost you :-) If video editing
> is important to your livelyhood, then you might consider getting a high
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> home. Of course you will have now spent a ton more money then just
> getting a laptop, but what a way to go :-)

Hehe... well, I do want a computer that I can use as a tool to edit
videos, and it's not something that I *have to have*, but it's for
editing my own home videos (I've been travelling a lot, as I am right
now).
I probably won't be able to afford everything right away anyway, but
seeing that computers are cheaper in some of the countries I'm in I
think I'd be better off buying one there.

Hallvard

Reply to this Message

John Johnson - 29 Apr 2004 16:03 GMT

[snip]

> > Get the faster RPM disk drive. The default 4200 RPM disks take longer
> > to read and write large files. You will benefit from having the faster
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> is it just the *interface* that's USB or Firewire while the drive
> mechanism is just plain old SCSI or IDE?

FW and USB are "just interfaces" at this point. These cases contain a
standard ATA HD and a bridge chip (Oxford 911 and 922 chips are often
considered the best) that interprets the commands from the ATA set to
the USB or FW command set. There is nothing preventing someone from
making a FW hard disk, but AFAIK, nobody's doing it. Note that both FW
and USB now come in more than one speed. Make sure that the case that
you purchase has the capabilities that you expect.

> I've seen external drive boxes for sale (neat,small metal boxes) here
> in Japan (saw them in Hong Kong as well). Could I just buy one of
> those and eventually buy the drive mechanism at home when I can afford
> it? Does the external case need a power supply as well, or is power
> provided through the Firewire or USB cable itself, from the Powerbook?

You may indeed just buy the box, then purchase the drive of your choice
later. Some boxes are easier to assemble than others, of course, and
different brands use different chips for the bridge. I did this when I
got my external case (WiebeTech). I bought an IBM 20GB drive to replace
the OEM 6GB drive in my Pismo, then put the 6GB drive into the external
case. It's pretty handy to have it around.

Reply to this Message

Bob Harris - 30 Apr 2004 00:27 GMT

> > If you just want this to be an around the house portable, then size is
> > less of an issue. Get the 15" or 17".
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> built in, and now with the Superdrive I'll even have the CD and DVD
> writer inside the same machine!

While I have unplugged so to speak, the problem is, instead of cleaning
out the back bedroom of all the desktop computer junk, I just closed the
door. My wife wants me to clean it out :-)

> And if it's a nice day outside and I'd like to work on something but
> not waste the day staying inside I can do both with a portable!

As I type this on my screened in porch,
I couldn't agree with you more :-)

> Apart from the screen sizes I've noticed that there are some other
> technical differences between the 12" and the 15/17" models. Do these
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> I might consider the 15", but not the 17".It's too big, and I'm
> already stretching it money wise.

The most important thing about screen size, is how many pixels on the
screen. That mostly determines how much junk you can see at once and
how crisp it is. I would not worry too much about how much video RAM
the different systems have, as most of them are reasonably good.

> > Video editing wants lots of memory. Get as much as you can.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> I'm a little confused about the hard drives as I'ma bit stuck in the
> stone age when it comes to these things. I'm used to SCSI.

I have some more bad news then. Punch Paper Tape and 80 Column Card
Reader/Punch devices are _NOT_ commonly available for the Mac. I know
this will come as a shock to you as it did to me, but life has to move
on :-)

> Are Firewire and USB drives actually some very special, new drives, or
> is it just the *interface* that's USB or Firewire while the drive
> mechanism is just plain old SCSI or IDE?

Firewire is a high speed interface. Its 2 largest uses are for external
disk drives, and for transferring video from Digital Video cameras.
Depending on which Mac laptop you get, you will have either 400
megabit/second Firewire capable ports or 800 megabit/second ports. You
can get Firewire disks that support either speed.

USB was originally used to attach slow and medium speed devices, like
your keyboard, mouse, printer, scanner, digital cameras, floppy and ZIP
disks, etc... The original interface was also used to attach external
disks, but the original transfer speed was way too slow for anything

USB 2, is 480 megabits/second, and all current Mac laptops include USB 2
ports. USB 2 external disks are a reasonable choice for external
storage.

However, I might still want to choose Firewire for the disks, because at
your desk, you might have a mouse and keyboard attached to the USB
ports, and your Firewire ports would be available for disks. If you
also need to attach the Digital Video camera to import movies, most
Firewire drives have daisy chain Firewire connectors so even if you have
a disk attached, you should still be able to plug in your DV camera.

As far as I know, all the Firewire and USB external disks, contain IDE
(EIDE) disks inside. SCSI disks are typically much more expensive to
manufacture (the SCSI logic often adds $100'ish to the price). And SCSI
disks typically do not come in the huge sizes that EIDE disks come in.

About the only advantage of the SCSI disks today, is that they tend to
be manufactured with higher RPM rates and are generally used in server
environments, or very high end workstation uses where speed is King.
And even that is starting to fade away as Serial ATA (SATA) is starting
to make in roads into the server and high end market.

But for most consumers, good old EIDE disks are more than good enough
and provide huge amounts of storage for very reasonable prices.

I have 3 external Firewire disks that I put together just this way. I
have a 48GB 2.5" in a small 2.5" Firewire enclosure. The disk was
originally an upgrade to my old Powerbook G3/500MHz (year 2000) laptop,
but when it died and I sold its as parts for $350, I put the original
20GB disk back in it, and kept the 48GB disk.

I have two 3.5" EIDE disks in different non-matching, not very pretty
external Firewire enclosures. One is a 100GB EIDE disk and the other is
a 120GB EIDE disk. I got them at different times when there were sales
at either BestBuy or CircuitCity.

I use them as backup devices for my laptop and my wife's laptop.

> > One final idea, and this one will really cost you :-) If video editing
> > is important to your livelyhood, then you might consider getting a high
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> Hallvard

Since you have clarified that video editing of for home videos, I am
going to agree with another post, you can consider the iBooks, as long
as video editing is a hobby and not your livelyhood. You can save a lot
of money by choosing a consumer iBook. Just _MAKE_ _SURE_ it has all
the bells and whistles you want. Otherwise think about a lower end
Aluminum 15" Powerbook, again to save money, but only if it has the
features you really want.

I'm not saying you should get an iBook, or a low end Powerbook, I'm just
suggesting that if a model satisfies your needs, it might be a way to
save money (which is half the reason I choose my 14" iBook G4/1GHz; the
other reason being long battery life).

As for RAM, again for home video editing, you still want a lot, but you
can live with 640MB (128MB on board, and 512MB card) or 768MB (256MB on
board, and 512MB card). That should be enough for typical use, should
hep with video editing, but will not break the bank (you can save money
by going to http://dealram.com and get the 512MB expansion card from a
reliable 3rd party.

And back to your desire to be free of the desktop and wires. I've been
wireless for about 4 years, and I had a friend that had been advocating
going to a laptop for several years. All I can say is, I should have
listened to him sooner. I much prefer sitting on the porch typing this,
than being in the house on a day like today.

Bob Harris

Reply to this Message

Pete Verdon - 30 Apr 2004 00:58 GMT

> I have some more bad news then. Punch Paper Tape and 80 Column Card
> Reader/Punch devices are _NOT_ commonly available for the Mac. I know
> this will come as a shock to you as it did to me, but life has to move
> on :-)

Of course, being a BSD system, if you could figure out a way to physically
connect the devices to your Mac, you'd probably find that they worked.

Pete

Reply to this Message

Mac Forum / General / Portable Macs / April 2004

So many portables -need help to choose!