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Mac Forum / General / General / July 2009Backup of bootable CD
Disk utility's help file says make an ISO of a CD, then mount the ISO and burn it to a blank CD. Says nothing about bootability. Result is not bootable--but I'm not sure whether it's the CD or the drive. Drive mounts and Finder shows files, but it won't boot. Tiger PPC. Suggestions?  SignatureWes Groleau Ruining the moment http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/WWW?itemid=61 > Disk utility's help file says make an ISO of a CD, > then mount the ISO and burn it to a blank CD. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Tiger PPC. Suggestions? Well, there's more. This CD will not boot on either of two machines. But both can mount it and the Open Firmware as well as Startup Disk show it as options. So it's obviously the CD, right? *BUT* I dug out an original retail 10.0.3 CD and it will mount on either machine, and startup disk offers it as bootable. But then it won't boot either--and the OF boot menu does not even show it. SignatureWes Groleau Fuggedaboudit ! http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/WWW?itemid=91 >> Tiger PPC. Suggestions? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > But then it won't boot either--and the OF boot menu > does not even show it. First of all, Tiger retail disks were DVD's. Tiger CD's were never sold, they were only available if you bought a retail DVD and sent it in for exchange. The price was a small shipping and handling fee, e.g. $10 in the US. The exchange program was not available in all countries. If you have an original Tiger CD, from the exchange program it would be bootable as long as that Mac boots from CD (some older Macs which had their Apple drives replaced with PC drives are not). If it is a copy, it may have been coppied incorrectly. There was a version of the Tiger CD's floating around the Internet that appeared to be correct, but were unbootable. The trick is that when you mount your original CD, diskcopy offers you a choice of copying the disk or the volume. If you copy the disk, you get a bootable copy. If you copy the volume, you don't. Copying the disk with Toast or cdrdao (a command line utility, you have to download) will produce a bootable copy. If the original can not be booted, there is AFAIK no way to make bootable, nor create a bootable CD from it. Theorecticaly you could create a bootable CD image and copy the files to it, but I think it would be difficult to get something that actually booted far enough to install it. Geoff. SignatureGeoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM > The trick is that when you mount your original CD, diskcopy offers you > a choice of copying the disk or the volume. If you copy the disk, you > get a bootable copy. If you copy the volume, you don't. That's probably it. So if I can't find the other, I have to pay Apple $35 for a replacement. Sigh. On the other hand, original CDs for OS 9 and Panther won't boot either--on two machines. Yet both machines can mount the CDs. > If the original can not be booted, there is AFAIK no way to make bootable, > nor create a bootable CD from it. Theorecticaly you could create a bootable > CD image and copy the files to it, but I think it would be difficult to get > something that actually booted far enough to install it. Worth a try.... thanks SignatureWes Groleau What kind of smiley is C:\ ? > > The trick is that when you mount your original CD, diskcopy offers you > > a choice of copying the disk or the volume. If you copy the disk, you [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > and Panther won't boot either--on two machines. Yet both machines can > mount the CDs. Did those machines ship after the original CDs were released? That would be one way to get that behavior. I can mount an OS 8.1 CD on this MBP, but it won't in any way consider booting the disk. >> That's probably it. So if I can't find the other, I have to pay Apple >> $35 for a replacement. Sigh. On the other hand, original CDs for OS 9 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I can mount an OS 8.1 CD on this MBP, but it won't in any way consider > booting the disk. Well, the machine that's fully up is a 1 GHz G4 eMac, so probably yes on that one. But the one I want to rebuild is a 400 MHz iMac, so i think it was built before I purchased 10.3 and the 9.2 that I tried. The 10.3 disk 1 that I bought then is the one I can't find, and the ISO is the 10.4. for this eMac that didn't have its CD or DVD when I bought it. I was hoping I could load 10.4 on a partition of that iMac and use that to restore 10.3 from backup. I did the restore by FireWire from this eMac and blessed it, but it still won't boot. SignatureWes Groleau Thinking it Through, Two http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/WWW?itemid=506 > Well, the machine that's fully up is a 1 GHz G4 eMac, so probably yes on > that one. But the one I want to rebuild is a 400 MHz iMac, so i think > it was built before I purchased 10.3 and the 9.2 that I tried. The 10.3 Oops! I just remembered the 9.2 is not supposed to be bootable--it's an upgrade for 9.1 SignatureWes Groleau Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before ... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -- Kurt Vonnegut > > Well, the machine that's fully up is a 1 GHz G4 eMac, so probably yes on > > that one. But the one I want to rebuild is a 400 MHz iMac, so i think > > it was built before I purchased 10.3 and the 9.2 that I tried. The 10.3 > > Oops! I just remembered the 9.2 is not supposed to be bootable--it's > an upgrade for 9.1 I assume you mean your specific CD. There was a bootable 9.2.1 CD in the box with Mac OS X 10.1, and it was a generic disk supporting all models compatible with Mac OS X (prior to that point in time). All Macs sold after the release of Mac OS 9.2 included a bootable 9.2, 9.2.1 or 9.2.2 CD specific to that model, until Apple dropped support for booting Mac OS 9 (about 2003, varies a little depending on the model). As for your various other CDs you've mentioned: Retail 10.0.3 should be able to boot any 400 MHz iMac G3, but it won't boot a 1 GHz eMac. Retail 10.3 should be able to boot all iMac G3s, but for the eMac it depends exactly which model you have. The USB 2.0 model came with Mac OS X 10.3.3 and wouldn't be supported by retail 10.3. Is your 10.3 a retail CD (black label) or model-specific (grey label)? Is your iMac G3's firmware up to date? (The firmware update must be installed using Mac OS 9.) SignatureDavid Empson dempson@actrix.gen.nz >> Oops! I just remembered the 9.2 is not supposed to be bootable--it's >> an upgrade for 9.1 [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > a generic disk supporting all models compatible with Mac OS X (prior to > that point in time). This one came in the retail box with 10.3--unless I somehow got the CDs mixed up. > Retail 10.0.3 should be able to boot any 400 MHz iMac G3, but it won't > boot a 1 GHz eMac. It is a 400 MHz iMac G3. I bought it used after I had purchased 10.3 I don't remember what version it arrived with, but I know that I put 10.3.0 on it and then updated. > Retail 10.3 should be able to boot all iMac G3s, but for the eMac it > depends exactly which model you have. The USB 2.0 model came with Mac OS > X 10.3.3 and wouldn't be supported by retail 10.3. Ouch. Info says it's PowerMac4,4 - 1 GHz G4 (3.3) Oddly, there is no version info on the USB controller. > Is your 10.3 a retail CD (black label) or model-specific (grey label)? It's blue and I purchased it as "10.3.2" but when it arrived from Apple, the box said 10.3.2 but the CDs said 10.3.0 > Is your iMac G3's firmware up to date? (The firmware update must be > installed using Mac OS 9.) Yes - unless there's something newer than 4.1f9 I see the G4 has newer, but I suppose that is not for the older machine. Here's something interesting: The system profiler says "The startup device has been selected, but .... unable to determine which ATA device it is" After the power loss, the 10.3.9 and 9 partitions had errors. Disk Utility fixed OS 9 but couldn't fix Panther. I reformatted Panther with Disk Utility, and it no longer had errors. I restored its contents with rsync and blessed it (over FireWire) but it would not boot. I have done that sort of restore before and had it remain bootable, but: - it was via Ethernet and NFS, not FireWire and TDM. - it was the rsync that came with RsyncX (-eahfs) and not the one that came with Tiger (-E) - the 'bless' was the Panther version before. I cannot find the 10.3 retail CD, but I thought maybe I could bless the folder by booting the 10.0.3 CD - it won't boot, nor will the 9.2 that came with 10.3 (I moved the CDs from the box into two double hard cases which until recently were stacked on top of each other. Someone for unknown reasons has moved disks one and two, leaving only disk three and the OS 9 disk.) I've been checking eBay and have been outbid twice on "sealed retail CDs original box." I'm hesitant to bid on others not only on the legal issue but also concerned about scratches. In desperation, I downloaded ISOs that allegedly were for bootable Tiger retail install. That would be ethical (in my opinion) for backup of this eMac that sold with Tiger, and while not licensed for the other, I figured that if I could install a bootable Tiger on the G3, then I'd be able to restore the legal Panther that it was running before. SignatureWes Groleau Methods meddling by amateurs http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/WWW?itemid=889 > >> Oops! I just remembered the 9.2 is not supposed to be bootable--it's > >> an upgrade for 9.1 [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > This one came in the retail box with 10.3--unless I somehow got the CDs > mixed up. I have a 10.3(.0) retail box. It didn't include Mac OS 9, but mine is second hand so it might have been mislaid by the original owner. The content label on the box only mentions Mac OS X and Xcode, so I'm pretty sure there was no Mac OS 9 CD in the box. (If there was, it would have been 9.2.2.) I also have a 10.1 retail box. It did include Mac OS 9.2.1 and the box says so. I don't have a retail 10.2, but I remember discussions at the time of its release that it no longer included a Mac OS 9 CD. > > Retail 10.3 should be able to boot all iMac G3s, but for the eMac it > > depends exactly which model you have. The USB 2.0 model came with Mac OS > > X 10.3.3 and wouldn't be supported by retail 10.3. > > Ouch. Info says it's PowerMac4,4 - 1 GHz G4 (3.3) Oddly, there is no > version info on the USB controller. PowerMac4,4 is one of the first three eMac generations, with USB 1.1. The first two predate the release of 10.3, and the third one came out the same month as 10.3 so I expect all of them will work with a retail 10.3 CD. The 3rd gen might have issues if Apple included a custom 10.3 build with that model rather than supporting it in the retail build. 1 GHz means you have the 2nd or 3rd gen. There is no easy way to distinguish them, except that the cheaper 3rd gen had a combo drive. If you have a superdrive it could be either generation. Some late sales of the 2nd gen (in October 2003) included 10.3 preinstalled. The serial number could narrow it down. The third character is the last digit of the year of manufacture (3 or 4) and the next two are the week of manufacture. If those digits are 344 or higher then it is definitely a 3rd gen (manufactured in Nov 2003 or later), and I expect Apple was making them at least a month or two earlier, so 336 or higher is probably a 3rd gen. The retail product codes also differ: M8590LL/A is the 1 GHz 2nd gen eMac, M8591LL/A is one of the 3rd gen models. This should be on the box if you still have it. > > Is your 10.3 a retail CD (black label) or model-specific (grey label)? > > It's blue and I purchased it as "10.3.2" but when it arrived from Apple, > the box said 10.3.2 but the CDs said 10.3.0 I've never seen blue Mac OS X CDs, at least not genuine Apple ones. > > Is your iMac G3's firmware up to date? (The firmware update must be > > installed using Mac OS 9.) > > Yes - unless there's something newer than 4.1f9 I see the G4 has newer, > but I suppose that is not for the older machine. Agreed - 4.1.9 is the latest firmware for all 400 MHz iMac G3s. I can't think why your 9.2, 10.0.3 and 10.3 won't boot on that computer, as long as they are retail versions. > Here's something interesting: The system profiler says "The startup > device has been selected, but .... unable to determine which ATA device > it is" After the power loss, the 10.3.9 and 9 partitions had errors. > Disk Utility fixed OS 9 but couldn't fix Panther. I reformatted Panther > with Disk Utility, and it no longer had errors. I restored its contents > with rsync and blessed it (over FireWire) but it would not boot. I wonder if file ownership might have been a factor. If you have an external disk mounted with "ignore ownership" selected in the Finder Get Info window on the volume, every file on the volume appears to be owned by the current user. This might prevent restoration or blessing of a viable system. SignatureDavid Empson dempson@actrix.gen.nz > I have a 10.3(.0) retail box. It didn't include Mac OS 9, but mine is > second hand so it might have been mislaid by the original owner. The > content label on the box only mentions Mac OS X and Xcode, so I'm pretty > sure there was no Mac OS 9 CD in the box. (If there was, it would have > been 9.2.2.) OK, I must be mixing things up. I got out my box and it says the same thing. But the CDs aren't in there. I transferred them to two double-CD hard cases, the first of which has walked away. And they (like the carton they came in) are black. Well, at least disk three is. > 1 GHz means you have the 2nd or 3rd gen. There is no easy way to > distinguish them, except that the cheaper 3rd gen had a combo drive. If > you have a superdrive it could be either generation. SONY DVD RW DW-U10A > The serial number could narrow it down. The third character is the last > digit of the year of manufacture (3 or 4) and the next two are the week > of manufacture. If those digits are 344 or higher then it is definitely > a 3rd gen (manufactured in Nov 2003 or later), and I expect Apple was > making them at least a month or two earlier, so 336 or higher is > probably a 3rd gen. G83281BCNLZ - probably gen 2 > The retail product codes also differ: M8590LL/A is the 1 GHz 2nd gen > eMac, M8591LL/A is one of the 3rd gen models. This should be on the box > if you still have it. eMac shipping box? I bought this used, repacked by the store that had gotten it from a school. >>> Is your 10.3 a retail CD (black label) or model-specific (grey label)? >> It's blue and I purchased it as "10.3.2" but when it arrived from Apple, >> the box said 10.3.2 but the CDs said 10.3.0 > I've never seen blue Mac OS X CDs, at least not genuine Apple ones. You're right. 10.1 is the blue one. The other is white with an orange nine, and it is 9.2.1, not 9.2.2 I thought I had a 9.2.2 CD, but maybe not. > I can't think why your 9.2, 10.0.3 and 10.3 won't boot on that computer, > as long as they are retail versions. Sigh, again I am mixed up. I grabbed the 10.1 _upgrade_ instead of the 10.0.3 full retail. and the 9.2.1 is an update, not a bootable retail. I don't have the 10.3 disks one & two. They're in the case that walked away. What won't boot is the 10.3.9 that I restored from backup by FireWire. The others were an attempt to load something bootable on it that I could then use to restore 10.3.9 with. >> Here's something interesting: The system profiler says "The startup >> device has been selected, but .... unable to determine which ATA device [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > by the current user. This might prevent restoration or blessing of a > viable system. Hmmm. I guess I should hook it up again and check that. Thanks for all the tips. SignatureWes Groleau Fossilization … to teachers. http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1476 > > The serial number could narrow it down. The third character is the last > > digit of the year of manufacture (3 or 4) and the next two are the week [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > G83281BCNLZ - probably gen 2 Agreed, but close to the end of that series. Not much difference anyway. > > I've never seen blue Mac OS X CDs, at least not genuine Apple ones. > You're right. 10.1 is the blue one. The other is white with an orange > nine, and it is 9.2.1, not 9.2.2 I thought I had a 9.2.2 CD, but maybe not. Ah, white with a blue X or orange 9 - I thought you meant the CD label was predominantly blue. > > I can't think why your 9.2, 10.0.3 and 10.3 won't boot on that computer, > > as long as they are retail versions. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I don't have the 10.3 disks one & two. They're in the case that walked > away. Hate it when that happens. I just found mine (they weren't in the box, but were in the drawer along with my other system CDs/DVDs). > What won't boot is the 10.3.9 that I restored from backup by > FireWire. The others were an attempt to load something bootable on it [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Thanks for all the tips. OK. I would like to know if you have any further success. SignatureDavid Empson dempson@actrix.gen.nz > Did those machines ship after the original CDs were released? That would > be one way to get that behavior. > I can mount an OS 8.1 CD on this MBP, but it won't in any way consider > booting the disk. Is that because they intended for it not to work on future machines, or because the CDs were designed with specific drivers for all known hardware at the time? SignatureWes Groleau Miss Universe had “lots of fun” in Guantanamo http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/russell?itemid=1537 > > Did those machines ship after the original CDs were released? That would > > be one way to get that behavior. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > or because the CDs were designed with specific drivers for all known > hardware at the time? Drivers. > The trick is that when you mount your original CD, diskcopy offers you > a choice of copying the disk or the volume. If you copy the disk, you > get a bootable copy. If you copy the volume, you don't. Changing the subject: I also have a Sun to upgrade. I downloaded the bootable ISO from Sun. Mounted it with disk utility which made two items appear. I assume the upper one is "the disk" and the lower indented on is "the volume" I selected the upper one and clicked 'burn' Machine burned and verified. Ejected, and put in Sun. It will not boot. SignatureWes Groleau On not nodding to Black people http://Ideas.Lang-Learn.us/barrett?itemid=1019 > Mounted it with disk utility which made two items appear. > I assume the upper one is "the disk" and the lower > indented on is "the volume" yes. > I selected the upper one and clicked 'burn' > > Machine burned and verified. > > Ejected, and put in Sun. It will not boot. I know this is going to sound stupid, but did you download the correct architecture? Solaris is available in x86 (Intel processors) and SPARC versions. To be honest, I've never used an Intel based Sun, although I have run x86 solaris, so I can't answer that. SPARC machines won't boot from a CD unless you hit stop A when they start up (SUN logo on the screen) and type "boot cdrom". I could write a full page (and have, so I won't repeat it here) about booting SUN computers from CDROMS, but that should be enough to start. If it isn't, contact me off line. Geoff. SignatureGeoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM > I know this is going to sound stupid, but did you download the correct > architecture? Solaris is available in x86 (Intel processors) and SPARC > versions. Yes. Took me two days to get it--I kept getting x86 and was getting rather confused because I was sure I was going for SPARC. Apparently something on Sun's site was broken, because as far as I can tell, I did the same thing today that I did the other two days. I also downloaded the x86 and installed it in VMWare at work. Anyway, it's the right one. After having the same problem with the Mac CDs, I used an RW for this one. :-) > To be honest, I've never used an Intel based Sun, although I have run > x86 solaris, so I can't answer that. SPARC machines won't boot from a > CD unless you hit stop A when they start up (SUN logo on the screen) and type > "boot cdrom". Yeah, I worked mainly on SPARC for over a decade. But this is the first time since 2003. > I could write a full page (and have, so I won't repeat it here) about booting > SUN computers from CDROMS, but that should be enough to start. If it isn't, > contact me off line. Well, since you mention it, do you know what keyboard shortcuts there are? I have to do this without a mouse. :-) SignatureWes Groleau "Grant me the serenity to accept those I cannot change; the courage to change the one I can; and the wisdom to know it's me." -- unknown > Disk utility's help file says make an ISO of a CD, > then mount the ISO and burn it to a blank CD. I sent you an email, did you get it? Reply via email, please. Geoff. SignatureGeoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel gsm@mendelson.com N3OWJ/4X1GM |
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