I'm still a holdout at 10.4.11. I recall that when Leopard came out
there were some issues. Have things settled down yet? What patch level
is Leopard at? Last I heard was 10.5.2.
The only feature I think I really would like to have is Time Machine to
replace my semi-automated rsync/hdiutil scripts. The rest seems like
fluff to me. Any other compelling reasons? Diffs in the kernel?

Signature
thepixelfreak
Gerry - 22 May 2008 20:10 GMT
> I'm still a holdout at 10.4.11. I recall that when Leopard came out
> there were some issues. Have things settled down yet? What patch level
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> replace my semi-automated rsync/hdiutil scripts. The rest seems like
> fluff to me. Any other compelling reasons? Diffs in the kernel?
I'm also at 10.4.11 and I will upgrade to Leopard eventually the main
reason would be I'm already seeing upgrades to some of my applications
needing a minimum of 10.5, when this group gets large enough I'll
upgrade.
Tom Harrington - 22 May 2008 20:46 GMT
> I'm still a holdout at 10.4.11. I recall that when Leopard came out
> there were some issues. Have things settled down yet? What patch level
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> replace my semi-automated rsync/hdiutil scripts. The rest seems like
> fluff to me. Any other compelling reasons? Diffs in the kernel?
What kind of kernel changes would actually make a difference? It's a
different kernel version, sure, but would you actually notice?
As far as I'm concerned, Time Machine is worth the price of Leopard on
its own. If you see things like Quick Look as "fluff", then you clearly
haven't had the opportunity of using them. QL is fantastic.

Signature
Tom "Tom" Harrington
Independent Mac OS X developer since 2002
http://www.atomicbird.com/
Mike Rosenberg - 22 May 2008 21:01 GMT
> As far as I'm concerned, Time Machine is worth the price of Leopard on
> its own.
My opinion, too.
> If you see things like Quick Look as "fluff", then you clearly
> haven't had the opportunity of using them. QL is fantastic.
Agreed, and there are plugins available that allow it to work with even
more file types. Just yesterday I used QL to preview several fonts.

Signature
<http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts
<http://designsbymike.net/election.shtml> Election 2008 goods.
<http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers
<http://designsbymike.net/shop/greet.cgi> Holiday cards with attitude
Michelle Steiner - 22 May 2008 21:49 GMT
> > As far as I'm concerned, Time Machine is worth the price of Leopard
> > on its own.
>
> My opinion, too.
Me three.

Signature
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
nospamatall - 22 May 2008 22:29 GMT
>> I'm still a holdout at 10.4.11. I recall that when Leopard came out
>> there were some issues. Have things settled down yet? What patch level
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> its own. If you see things like Quick Look as "fluff", then you clearly
> haven't had the opportunity of using them. QL is fantastic.
I've had 10.5 for some time now, and not really used QL, until last
week. I was doing a OS X Server course consisting of many short QT
movies. It was a pain having to close the window and then go to the list
for the next video, and I accidentally hit the spacebar. Up came the QL
window, with the video starting in it. I resized it to fill the
available space and watched the movie to the end. When it stopped I
could see through the window to the finder window beneath, in column
view. I could use the arrow keys etc to navigate and choose the next
title very easily. Amazing. I suppose this would apply to anything, not
just videos. And it's deliberate, the transparency disappears when there
is something to view.
The only other use for transparency I've found is in Terminal, where I
can see through to the 'cheat sheet' I have underneath. So now I have
two really good uses for transparency!
Andy
Gregory Weston - 22 May 2008 20:50 GMT
> I'm still a holdout at 10.4.11. I recall that when Leopard came out
> there were some issues.
As there have been with every release of and update to Mac OS for nearly
a quarter century. Most people never have a problem, but I've never seen
a release pass with absolutely no-one reporting local problems.
> Have things settled down yet?
Depends. As I noted above, most people never had a problem. It's not
completely bug free, but then neither is 10.4.11. Most of the worst UI
changes that had a lot of people complaining have been addressed.
> What patch level is Leopard at? Last I heard was 10.5.2.
Still at 10.5.2. There are rumblings that 10.5.3 is near, but as usual
there's no official announcement.
> The only feature I think I really would like to have is Time Machine to
> replace my semi-automated rsync/hdiutil scripts. The rest seems like
> fluff to me. Any other compelling reasons? Diffs in the kernel?
"Compelling" is a very subjective word. Do you use Spotlight? If you
don't, do you not use it because it's often slow for the searches you
do? Spotlight got a tremendous performance boost in 10.5.
QuickLook is also pretty cool - an extensible mechanism to peek at the
contents of a file without ever leaving Finder.
Some people find Spaces quite useful. I don't, but my wife considers it
indispensable for work.
The e-mail app got some nice new features related to task management.
Parental controls are much better if they apply to you.
<http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/>

Signature
"Harry?" Ron's voice was a mere whisper. "Do you smell something ... burning?"
- Harry Potter and the Odor of the Phoenix
Jolly Roger - 22 May 2008 21:22 GMT
> I'm still a holdout at 10.4.11. I recall that when Leopard came out
> there were some issues. Have things settled down yet? What patch level
> is Leopard at? Last I heard was 10.5.2.
There are issues with 10.4 as well - you've just learned to live with or
work around them. No software is 100% bug-free.
The point is, there are *always* issues with any release. Many, many
people (including myself and just about every Mac user I know at work
and at home) are using Leopard every day. Unless you can think of a
specific thing that doesn;t work that would dramatically affect you,
there's no reason you can't use it as well.
> The only feature I think I really would like to have is Time Machine to
> replace my semi-automated rsync/hdiutil scripts. The rest seems like
> fluff to me. Any other compelling reasons? Diffs in the kernel?
Yes, Leopard is *significantly* different under the hood. It's certainly
not all fluff. Fluff, by the way, is what you get from Apple's marketing
team, because that's what most non-technical Mac users understand most
easily. If you want a more in-depth review of what makes Leopard
different, try reading an article from a more technical source, such as
Ars Technica:
<http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/mac-os-x-10-5.ars>
I'm won't dare bother to try listing all of the ways Leopard is better
than Mac OS X 10.4 and previous releases in terms of performance,
robustness, stability, and so on. Suffice it to say, the list would be
very long - Leopard is a big improvement in many ways, across the board.

Signature
Please send all responses to the relevant news group. E-mail sent to
this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. I do not
read posts from Google Groups. Use a real news reader if you want me to
see your posts.
JR
thepixelfreak - 23 May 2008 18:08 GMT
>> The only feature I think I really would like to have is Time Machine to
>> replace my semi-automated rsync/hdiutil scripts. The rest seems like
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> robustness, stability, and so on. Suffice it to say, the list would be
> very long - Leopard is a big improvement in many ways, across the board.
Thanks for the link. Very good information.

Signature
thepixelfreak
Elijah Baley - 22 May 2008 22:39 GMT
> I'm still a holdout at 10.4.11. I recall that when Leopard came out
> there were some issues. Have things settled down yet? What patch level
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> replace my semi-automated rsync/hdiutil scripts. The rest seems like
> fluff to me. Any other compelling reasons? Diffs in the kernel?
In my personal experience Leopard 10.5.2 is vastly more stable and
reliable than Tiger 10.4.11. Not that I had any major issues with Tiger
but I did have occasional crashes (Safari, Mail, etc.) that have simply
not reoccurred in Leopard. There seem to be two parallel universes when
it comes to OS X and/or Windows, Linux and the like. In one of the
universes everything just works. This universe is populated by the vast
majority of users. In the other universe nothing works. This universe is
populated by the same people who can't get a toaster to work, the people
who are on their sixth TiVo because the others have all crapped out on
them, the people whose cars are always in the shop, and the people whose
DVD players all skip and jerk when playing a movie. Oh, and their cell
phones always drop calls too.
If you live in my universe, the first one where most people live, then
you'll be fine with Leopard.
If you live in the other universe however...

Signature
"Momma always said, "Stupid is as stupid does."" -Forest Gump
"You can't fix stupid." -Jim White, local radio personality
Michelle Steiner - 22 May 2008 22:53 GMT
> In my personal experience Leopard 10.5.2 is vastly more stable and
> reliable than Tiger 10.4.11.
But which OS does R. Daneel have?

Signature
Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.
salgud - 22 May 2008 23:09 GMT
> I'm still a holdout at 10.4.11. I recall that when Leopard came out
> there were some issues. Have things settled down yet? What patch level
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> replace my semi-automated rsync/hdiutil scripts. The rest seems like
> fluff to me. Any other compelling reasons? Diffs in the kernel?
I'm pretty new to Leopard, never used the earlier OSXs, but I am very
impressed with Leopard. Seems fast and very stable. I accidentally gave it
a stability test a few nights ago. I selected a number (at least 50) of
executable files I had brought over from my PC, and, instead of deleting
them, I accidentally double-clicked and opened them. When you open a
Windoze exe file on a Mac, you get a little window with some sort of code.
I got a bunch of them! Cascading down my screen, then starting again over
to the right, then again and again. I was waiting for the system to lock,
wouldn't have been surprised or dissappointed if it had. But nothing
happened. I had to close a lot of windows, but nothing happened. With only
1 Gb of memory. I was impressed.
And as for TM, I can honestly say that I've never before, in over 40 years
of working with computers, eagerly awaited the first time I accidentally
lose or delete a file. I am now! :)
Gerry - 22 May 2008 23:24 GMT
> I'm pretty new to Leopard, never used the earlier OSXs, but I am very
> impressed with Leopard. Seems fast and very stable. I accidentally gave it
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> happened. I had to close a lot of windows, but nothing happened. With only
> 1 Gb of memory. I was impressed.
If you had just held down the Option key when you clicked the red close
button on the active window all of the other windows would have
automatically closed by themselves.
salgud - 23 May 2008 14:42 GMT
>> I'm pretty new to Leopard, never used the earlier OSXs, but I am very
>> impressed with Leopard. Seems fast and very stable. I accidentally gave it
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> button on the active window all of the other windows would have
> automatically closed by themselves.
Thanks! I hope I remember that if it ever happens again.
Earle Jones - 30 May 2008 20:10 GMT
> I'm still a holdout at 10.4.11. I recall that when Leopard came out
> there were some issues. Have things settled down yet? What patch level
> is Leopard at? Last I heard was 10.5.2.
*
10.5.3 as of a couple of days ago.
earle
*
Dave Balderstone - 30 May 2008 22:06 GMT
> > I'm still a holdout at 10.4.11. I recall that when Leopard came out
> > there were some issues. Have things settled down yet? What patch level
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> earle
> *
You're replying to an eight day old message...

Signature
Woodworking links and more at http://www.woodenwabbits.com