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Mac Forum / General / General / April 2008Why ctrl+cmd+d short doesn't work on my macbook?
os:mac os leopard10.5.2 ctrl+cmd+d is a shortcut for apple dictionary panel In article <3be98418-db70-4093-b020-43a28436138f@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > os:mac os leopard10.5.2 > ctrl+cmd+d is a shortcut for apple dictionary panel In what applications? It doesn't work with all applications. It doesn't work with MT Newswatcher, for instance. Try it with mail.app; it works there on my system.  SignatureSupport the troops: Bring them home ASAP. > In article > <3be98418-db70-4093-b020-43a284361...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > doesn't work with MT Newswatcher, for instance. Try it with mail.app; > it works there on my system. It doesn't work at all on any applications on my macbook, I tried the shortcut on a few MACs in Apple store, the shortcut worked fine... In article <90057f39-f0b0-4a04-83cd-63b3c7c6d652@e67g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, > It doesn't work at all on any applications on my macbook, I tried the > shortcut on a few MACs in Apple store, the shortcut worked fine... Open System Preferences. Click on Keyboard and Mouse. Then click on Keyboard Shortcuts. The second item in the list is "Look up in Dictionary" Make sure it is checked, and verify what the shortcut is. BTW, it's "Mac", not "MAC". SignatureSupport the troops: Bring them home ASAP. > In article > <90057f39-f0b0-4a04-83cd-63b3c7c6d...@e67g2000hsa.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > -- > Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP. The option was certainly checked and I've spent quite some time over the past weekend trying to get this to work, a search on Apple support discussion board yields many similar cases. I suspect it is a bug which Apple doesn't care to rectify, as, interestingly, the shortcut works on other machines. My Macbook was bought from Apple store in Cambridge MA on the 5 Jan 2008, and all the s/w should be the most up- to-date. In article <6fd5bfe1-6701-47ad-88e0-9e5de89a7281@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, > The option was certainly checked and I've spent quite some time over > the past weekend trying to get this to work, a search on Apple > support discussion board yields many similar cases. I suspect it is a > bug which Apple doesn't care to rectify, as, interestingly, the > shortcut works on other machines. When you say "other machines", do you mean other models of the Macintosh, or other Macs of the same model? (Or both?) Have you tried it with another account on your computer? Does it work when you use control-click or the trackpad equivalent of right click? SignatureSupport the troops: Bring them home ASAP. > In article > <6fd5bfe1-6701-47ad-88e0-9e5de89a7...@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > When you say "other machines", do you mean other models of the > Macintosh, or other Macs of the same model? (Or both?) I mean all the machines available in an Apple store. > Have you tried it with another account on your computer? Yes, guest account on my computer has the same problem. > Does it work when you use control-click or the trackpad equivalent of > right click? Just the shortcut doesn't work, I can still right click on a word and select the option "Look up in the dictionary", this works perfect fine but very inconvenient and more time consuming compared with using the shortcut. > -- > Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP. I take it you are aware that this works in some applications, but not in others. I believe the difference is Carbon or Cocoa. It doesn't work in Thoth, but it works in TextEdit, e.g. If that's not your problem, I suggest you have a look at the Keyboard Pane in System Preferences. Davoud Signatureusenet *at* davidillig dawt com In article <0f2ba354-bcbe-4079-8c1c-88c3549d9b62@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>, > > When you say "other machines", do you mean other models of the > > Macintosh, or other Macs of the same model? (Or both?) > > I mean all the machines available in an Apple store. OK, that includes the same model that you have. Therefore the problem is with your particular computer, and is not a system bug or a bug with that model of Macintosh. SignatureSupport the troops: Bring them home ASAP. > In article > <0f2ba354-bcbe-4079-8c1c-88c3549d9...@k1g2000prb.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > -- > Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP. http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=6889280� Topic : Dictionary shortcut doesn't work for me In article <55204d93-5b13-473f-b225-277cc710d424@s8g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=6889280� > > Topic : Dictionary shortcut doesn't work for me Maybe the last message in that thread explains it: Right you are. And funny...now after resetting the keyboard preferences to not "Use all F1, F2 as standard function keys" seems to have corrected the shortcut control-command-D's functionality. Toggling it back to use it did not change its functionality. It appears that preference automatically repairs itself when you change it. SignatureSupport the troops: Bring them home ASAP. In article <6fd5bfe1-6701-47ad-88e0-9e5de89a7281@a23g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, > The option was certainly checked and I've spent quite some time over > the past weekend trying to get this to work, a search on Apple support [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Cambridge MA on the 5 Jan 2008, and all the s/w should be the most up- > to-date. My MacBook must be the same as yours - bought around the same time - same symptoms... > In article > <3be98418-db70-4093-b020-43a28436138f@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > doesn't work with MT Newswatcher, for instance. Try it with mail.app; > it works there on my system. This is one of the technologies / features Apple has implemented where they didn't bother to get it working with Carbon applications. This is a Cocoa-only feature. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > This is one of the technologies / features Apple has implemented > where they didn't bother to get it working with Carbon applications. > This is a Cocoa-only feature. That's what I thought, but I'm not sure which apps are Cocoa and which are Carbon. I thought that TextWrangler was Carbon, but command-control-D works with it, so I'm now not sure whether it is Carbon or not. SignatureSupport the troops: Bring them home ASAP. > > This is one of the technologies / features Apple has implemented > > where they didn't bother to get it working with Carbon applications. > > This is a Cocoa-only feature. > > That's what I thought, but I'm not sure which apps are Cocoa and which > are Carbon. Sometimes it's hard to tell, but missing features like the system-wide dictionary and spell checking are the usual indicators. > I thought that TextWrangler was Carbon, but command-control-D works with > it, so I'm now not sure whether it is Carbon or not. I'm pretty sure Bare Bones specifically added a hook to TextWrangler and BBEdit to do that. In fact, they may be the first third-party developer to do so. SignaturePosted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com >>> ctrl+cmd+d is a shortcut for apple dictionary panel > This is one of the technologies / features Apple has implemented where > they didn't bother to get it working with Carbon applications. This is a > Cocoa-only feature. Somehow, I suspected that you wouldn't pass up the opportunity to point that out. Cheers, > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com I'm posting from individual.net. I still will have my supernews account until December. I've installed, but not configured, leafnode on an internal server as well. Cheers, -j SignatureJeffrey Goldberg http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/ I rarely read top-posted, over-quoting or HTML postings. http://improve-usenet.org/ > > Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > > I'm posting from individual.net. I still will have my supernews account > until December. I've installed, but not configured, leafnode on an > internal server as well. Does individual.net let you create filters that examine these headers?: Newsgroups X-Newsreader User-Agent NNTP-Posting-Host In <jollyroger-A375FE.22470207042008@70-3-168-216.area5.spcsdns.net>, Jolly...: > Does individual.net let you create filters that examine these headers?: > > Newsgroups > X-Newsreader > User-Agent > NNTP-Posting-Host Apparently not. But my testing may not have been sufficient. I'm going to set up leafnode, and I've got fiber to the house, and I only read text groups, so I'm not really fussed about grabbing whole groups or articles to be able to do my filtering. Cheers, -j SignatureJeffrey Goldberg http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/ I rarely read top-posted, over-quoting or HTML postings. http://improve-usenet.org/ > > Does individual.net let you create filters that examine these headers?: > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > read text groups, so I'm not really fussed about grabbing whole groups or > articles to be able to do my filtering. If you get that working please do report back here (in a new thread) so the rest of us know it's an option that actually works. I would set this up myself, but am just too busy right now. If I knew it actually worked, though, it'd give me extra incentive to make time for it! > Does individual.net let you create filters that examine these headers?: > > Newsgroups > X-Newsreader > User-Agent > NNTP-Posting-Host It is your NNTP client that lets you create filters but if you want to filter before the articles themselves are downloaded then you can only filter on fields that are held in the overview database of your news provider. If you telnet to news.individual.net on port 119 and then issue the "list overview.fmt" command it will display the fields in the overview database, which are: > Subject: > From: [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Lines: > Xref:full So it does not include the headers you are interested in. Ian SignatureIan Gregory http://www.zenatode.org.uk/ian/ > > Does individual.net let you create filters that examine these headers?: > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > So it does not include the headers you are interested in. I think the way it works is, if your news provider supports the XOVER command, and your client supports/uses XOVER as well (in MT-NewsWatcher, there's a check box for this in the Special > News Servers > Edit Servers dialog box under the Server Options tab), the client sends the XOVER command to get a list of the headers in the overview database. If your client has filters set that examine only headers in the overview database, then the client has all the info it needs with the XOVER command results. If your client happens to have a filter that examines headers not included in the overview database, however, the client reverts to sending the XHDR command to the server for each of those headers. Now, apparently, it's possible (but certainly not expected or mandatory) for news providers to support extra headers with the XHDR command. Some do support extra headers, and some don't. So I believe knowing what headers are indexed in the overview database will *not* tell us whether or not a given news provider supports filtering on those headers, because the server may support those headers with the XHDR command. One could, I suppose, telnet in, as you did above, and issue an XHDR command to see if that header is supported. The format of the XHDR command is shown here: <http://www.mibsoftware.com/userkt/nntpext/0023.htm> In <jollyroger-7B5D1C.10485208042008@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,...: >>> Does individual.net let you create filters that examine these headers?: >>> >>> Newsgroups >>> X-Newsreader >>> User-Agent >>> NNTP-Posting-Host > [...] the client > reverts to sending the XHDR command to the server for each of those > headers. Now, apparently, it's possible (but certainly not expected or > mandatory) for news providers to support extra headers with the XHDR > command. Some do support extra headers, and some don't. Below is the result of my news tests with XHDR. I can get User-Agent, but nothing else (but the message I tested on didn't have an X-Newsreader header, so that test was not diagnostic). And just to confirm that I got the syntax right (this time) for testing, I also tested on Subject and From. % telnet news.individual.net nntp Trying 130.133.1.4... Connected to news.individual.net. Escape character is '^]'. 200 The server welcomes n114.ewd.goldmark.org (72.64.118.114). Authorization required for reading and posting. authinfo user goldberg 381 PASS required authinfo pass XXXXXXX 281 Authentication accepted. (UID=308164) group comp.sys.mac.system 211 41137 812178 854783 comp.sys.mac.system xhdr newsgroups 854783 221 newsgroups fields follow 854783 comp.sys.mac.system . xhdr subject 854783 221 subject fields follow 854783 Re: [OT] news providers . xhdr X-Newsreader 854783 221 X-Newsreader fields follow . xhdr user-agent 854783 221 user-agent fields follow 854783 Alpine 1.10 (OSX 962 2008-03-14) . xhdr NNTP-Posting-Host 854783 221 NNTP-Posting-Host fields follow . xhdr X-Newsreader 854783 221 X-Newsreader fields follow . xhdr from 854783 221 from fields follow 854783 Jeffrey Goldberg <nobody@goldmark.org> . quit SignatureJeffrey Goldberg http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/ I rarely read top-posted, over-quoting or HTML postings. http://improve-usenet.org/ > In <jollyroger-7B5D1C.10485208042008@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,...: > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] > . > quit Thanks for the follow-up! So my hunt is still on. : ) In <jollyroger-74680E.11202708042008@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,...: > Thanks for the follow-up! So my hunt is still on. : ) Note that the message I tested with didn't have an NNTP-Posting-Host nor an X-Newreader header. And it did succeed on User-Agent. So the only thing that was really missing was Newsgroups. So here are my questions: (1) What can you do with Newsgroups that you can't do with Xref? (2) What do you need those user-agent like headers for that you can't get through what is available, including message-id? I filter googlegroups and webtv on message-id. What I really would like to filter on is number of follow-ups. That is, if there is no Followup-To header, then number of newsgroups, else number of things in followups. As far as I know there is no way of doing that without fetching the whole article. My news client can't do that. But I can do that with leafnode. Cheers, -j SignatureJeffrey Goldberg http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/ I rarely read top-posted, over-quoting or HTML postings. http://improve-usenet.org/ > In <jollyroger-74680E.11202708042008@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,...: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > (1) What can you do with Newsgroups that you can't do with Xref? Nothing as far as I can tell. I think I'd just more readily recognize filters on "newsgroups". Then again, I can learn to change, so this is not a problem. > (2) What do you need those user-agent like headers for that you can't > get through what is available, including message-id? I adjust the score of all posts whose User-Agent or X-Newsreader are Windows-based news readers. In Mac news groups, this can be enlightening. : ) Also, I have a few filters that kill based on the NNTP-Posting-Host header. If I have to do without these filters anyway, I will likely just stick with Giganews (which is free for me since my ISP outsources to them), but I would prefer not to have to live without them, if possible, and if the price is right. > Below is the result of my news tests with XHDR. I can get User-Agent, but > nothing else (but the message I tested on didn't have an X-Newsreader > header, so that test was not diagnostic). It also doesn't have the other headers that it failed on. And your test succeeded in getting Newsgroups, according to your pasted output. XHDR works on arbitrary headers on news.individual.net. Any header, all headers, Newsgroups, and anything else. SignatureJeremy Nixon | address in header is valid (formerly jeremy@exit109.com) > And your test succeeded in getting Newsgroups, according to your pasted > output. So it did! xhdr newsgroups 854783 221 newsgroups fields follow 854783 comp.sys.mac.system . OK, folks. I haven't wanted to get into various personal issues, but please don't anything I write during the next month or so too seriously. I'm going to have back surgery (laminectomy) near the beginning of May. So at any given moment, I am either distracted by pain in my legs or under the influence of pain killers (or both). So if I've been even flakier than usual, overlooking obvious things, I have an excuse. Cheers, -j SignatureJeffrey Goldberg http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/ I rarely read top-posted, over-quoting or HTML postings. http://improve-usenet.org/ > If you telnet to news.individual.net on port 119 and then issue the > "list overview.fmt" command it will display the fields in the overview [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> Lines: >> Xref:full That was the test that I ran as well. (I also tried XHDR). > So it does not include the headers you [JR] are interested in. Yep. Cheers, -j SignatureJeffrey Goldberg http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/ I rarely read top-posted, over-quoting or HTML postings. http://improve-usenet.org/ > It is your NNTP client that lets you create filters but if you want to > filter before the articles themselves are downloaded then you can only > filter on fields that are held in the overview database of your news > provider. [...] This is not correct. The type of filters you are speaking of will work if the server can retrieve them using the XHDR command. They need not be in the overview database, and they almost certainly never will be in the "list overview.fmt" output, which is almost never changed from the default value because many newsreaders can't handle different formats. You can retrieve any header in a post using XHDR on news.individual.net. SignatureJeremy Nixon | address in header is valid (formerly jeremy@exit109.com) >> It is your NNTP client that lets you create filters but if you want to >> filter before the articles themselves are downloaded then you can only [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > the "list overview.fmt" output, which is almost never changed from the > default value because many newsreaders can't handle different formats. Advice for creating slrn scorefiles: "Although the score may be based on ANY header item, it is recommended that one stick with the information found in the news overview data when scoring in slrn." <http://slrn.sourceforge.net/docs/score.txt> I agree that you can score on other headers and I was wrong to imply that it required downloading articles - it can be done by downloading article headers using XHDR (assuming it is supported by both client and server). However, it is more efficient to score on fields in overview.fmt (which is why the slrn docs give the advice they do). Some clients are presumably capable of filtering on article body text but there the article itself would need to be downloaded so that the client could scan it and decide whether to show it in the list of unread articles. Ian SignatureIan Gregory http://www.zenatode.org.uk/ian/ > I agree that you can score on other headers and I was wrong to imply > that it required downloading articles - it can be done by downloading > article headers using XHDR (assuming it is supported by both client and > server). However, it is more efficient to score on fields in > overview.fmt (which is why the slrn docs give the advice they do). You won't find a server with an overview.fmt that differs from the default. I have never seen anyone do that, and there are almost certainly clients that would be unable to deal with it. It's been said in a couple of recent posts on this subject that Supernews had extra headers in the overviews, but that is not true. Extra headers were *indexed* so that retrieving them via XHDR would be more efficient, but the overview.fmt was the same as everyone else's. There are levels of efficiency in header filtering. Filtering on headers that are actually in the overviews is the most efficient, because the client is downloading the overviews anyway, and the server is optimized to deliver them efficiently. Filtering via XHDR on non-overview headers can be made efficient by having certain extra headers indexed on the server so that retrieving them is as efficient as retrieving the overview headers -- but those headers are still not in the overviews and will not be included in the overview.fmt output. Retrieving headers via XHDR that are not indexed requires the server to actually open the article itself and extract the requested header; it is a relatively expensive operation, so many servers no longer support this operation. news.individual.net does, though. However, both "kinds" of XHDR filtering (indexed, non-indexed) are just as efficient from the client point of view. It is the server that takes the hit when you do XHDR on a non-indexed header. It is a non-trivial hit, too, so keep that in mind and try not to hit the server too hard, or else the administrators may disable the XHDR retrieval to conserve resources. SignatureJeremy Nixon | address in header is valid (formerly jeremy@exit109.com) > You won't find a server with an overview.fmt that differs from the > default. I have never seen anyone do that, and there are almost > certainly clients that would be unable to deal with it. Apparently Xref (which is in the overview.fmt on Individual.NET) is not a default field but is added by news admins as an optional field because many newsreaders work better if it is included. Any client that implements the XOVER command can return information from the overview database for specified articles and SHOULD implement the LIST OVERVIEW.FMT which can be used to determine what optional fields and in which order all the fields will be supplied by the XOVER command. I see that although the XHDR command is listed as a common NNTP extension it has actually been in the Unix reference implementation from its first release (just not documented), so I understand that XOVER (another common NNTP extension) may be less commonly implemented. However, if it has been implemented correctly it should be able to handle overview.fmt files that include optional fields. Why are you so sure that there are clients with broken XOVER implementations? Here is the index to documentation of common NNTP extensions: <http://www.mibsoftware.com/userkt/nntpext/index.html> In slrn if you base scorefile rules only on fields listed in overview.fmt (whether that is the default list or a custom one including optional fields) then no XHDR commands need be issued to calculate scores. If you need to score on other headers then presumably it uses the XHDR command to try to obtain them from the server. Ian SignatureIan Gregory http://www.zenatode.org.uk/ian/ > Apparently Xref (which is in the overview.fmt on Individual.NET) is not > a default field but is added by news admins as an optional field because > many newsreaders work better if it is included. It's "optional" in terms of the spec, but has been included in the overviews by default on server software for many years. You may find servers that don't send Xrefs in overviews, but (a) they will be rare; and (b) that will be the only variation you will see in actual practice on real servers. > Any client that implements the XOVER command can return information from > the overview database for specified articles and SHOULD implement the > LIST OVERVIEW.FMT which can be used to determine what optional fields > and in which order all the fields will be supplied by the XOVER command. That is the nice, happy theory; the practice is that varying this apart from excluding or including Xref isn't something that happens. I have *never* seen a working server that includes anything else in the overviews except as an experiment. > I see that although the XHDR command is listed as a common NNTP > extension it has actually been in the Unix reference implementation from > its first release (just not documented), so I understand that XOVER > (another common NNTP extension) may be less commonly implemented. It, too, is virtually universal. I have not seen a server that doesn't implement XOVER in a very long time. > However, if it has been implemented correctly it should be able to > handle overview.fmt files that include optional fields. Why are you so > sure that there are clients with broken XOVER implementations? People have, over decades, written code based on real-world servers, and real-world servers always send the same thing in the overviews. It is not unheard-of for a client to do XOVER without ever retrieving the overview.fmt, and to simply decide whether Xref is present by counting the number of fields in the returned data. This should, of course, never be done, but again, that's the shiny, happy theory. > Here is the index to documentation of common NNTP extensions: I'm quite familiar with them, having been in Usenet administration for well over a decade, right up until the recent buyout and orbital-nuking of Supernews. :) SignatureJeremy Nixon | address in header is valid (formerly jeremy@exit109.com) > I'm quite familiar with them, having been in Usenet administration for > well over a decade, right up until the recent buyout and orbital-nuking > of Supernews. :) Alright - finally someone who truly knows something about this! Maybe you can explain to me, why it was that Supernews was the only provider that let me filter for these headers with MT-NewsWatcher?: Newsgroups User-Agent X-Newsreader NNTP-Posting-Host Some, but definitely *not* most, providers let me filter on Newsgroups, but none of the providers I've tried since the demise of Supernews support the other headers! > Alright - finally someone who truly knows something about this! Maybe > you can explain to me, why it was that Supernews was the only provider > that let me filter for these headers with MT-NewsWatcher?: I thought I already had, but yes, I can. When you request a header using XHDR, or any similar NNTP command, if the server has the header indexed, it can retrieve the data from the index. The overview headers are always requested by clients, so those headers are always indexed. If the header you request is not indexed, the server has to open the message itself and extract the header. This is an expensive operation (in terms of server resources). So, nowadays most of the larger servers have disabled XHDR retrieval of headers that aren't indexed. At Supernews, we took the headers that users most commonly wanted to use for filtering and added them to the index so that XHDR would work on them. Most providers don't do that, and probably won't even if you ask. It makes the indexes bigger, may require rebuilding at least some of them, and takes work to implement. So when you have something that a small number of customers want, and the cost of doing it probably outweighs the money they are paying you, do you do it anyway? At Supernews, our answer was "yes". Even if there is no immediate profit in it, providing quality service has long-term benefits. Unfortunately, that kind of thinking is rare in the world of business. Given your need for this kind of filtering, individual.net seems to be a good choice for you. They support XHDR on any header at all, indexed or not. Just keep in mind that heavy use of it on non-indexed headers is a big hit on the server, and individual.net is essentially a non-profit service, so use it, but don't abuse it. :) SignatureJeremy Nixon | address in header is valid (formerly jeremy@exit109.com) > At Supernews, we took the headers that users most commonly wanted to > use for filtering and added them to the index so that XHDR would work > on them. <snip> Now that Supernews has been borged by Giganews, I wonder if that means Giganews will get their act together and get the Newsgroups: header into the index... I sure hope so, since that's who Comcast farms out newsgroups to... SignatureDon Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist, or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow" somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info > Now that Supernews has been borged by Giganews, I wonder if that means > Giganews will get their act together and get the Newsgroups: header into > the index... Holding your breath while waiting would probably be ill-advised. I've been wrong before, though. SignatureJeremy Nixon | address in header is valid (formerly jeremy@exit109.com) > > Now that Supernews has been borged by Giganews, I wonder if that means > > Giganews will get their act together and get the Newsgroups: header into > > the index... > > Holding your breath while waiting would probably be ill-advised. <heheheheheh> Unfortunately, I suspect you're right. > I've been wrong before, though. So make my day already... Be wrong this time! :) SignatureDon Bruder - dakidd@sonic.net - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist, or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow" somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... <http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd> for more info >> I've been wrong before, though. > > So make my day already... Be wrong this time! :) Unfortunately, it wasn't just a guess, it was an "informed guess". On the other hand, people in this group are not the only ones who noticed; I just happened to see these threads because I'm a Mac user, so these are the ones I read and replied to. So they do know there is a demand for it. SignatureJeremy Nixon | address in header is valid (formerly jeremy@exit109.com) > Now that Supernews has been borged by Giganews, I wonder if that means > Giganews will get their act together and get the Newsgroups: header into > the index... ROFLMAO!!!!! SignatureHelp improve usenet. Kill-file Google Groups. http://improve-usenet.org/ > > Alright - finally someone who truly knows something about this! Maybe > > you can explain to me, why it was that Supernews was the only provider > > that let me filter for these headers with MT-NewsWatcher?: > > I thought I already had, but yes, I can. Sorry - I'm just trying to understand how it really works! I really appreciate your taking the time to explain, and hope I won't wear on your patience too much! > When you request a header using XHDR, or any similar NNTP command, if the > server has the header indexed, it can retrieve the data from the index. [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > a good choice for you. They support XHDR on any header at all, indexed > or not. Ok. That makes sense - except my understanding of it was that if the header is *not* indexed and my client issues a XHDR command for that header, doesn't the news server just send an empty reply back? That seems to be what happened in Jeffrey Goldberg's test of individual.net: Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.1.10.0804081106570.819@hagrid.ewd.goldmark.org> If the server does not return a list of posts matching that header, that means a filter for that header won't work, right? Or am I misunderstanding? > Just keep in mind that heavy use of it on non-indexed headers > is a big hit on the server, and individual.net is essentially a > non-profit service, so use it, but don't abuse it. :) I have filters that look at these headers to determine whether posts made to comp.sys.mac.* are from Windows computers: X-Newsreader User-Agent And I also have a couple filters that look at the NNTP-Posting-Host header to kill posts from certain undesirables. Would either of these cases be considered abuse, in your opinion? > Ok. That makes sense - except my understanding of it was that if the > header is *not* indexed and my client issues a XHDR command for that > header, doesn't the news server just send an empty reply back? Not necessarily. The commercial providers do. The other option is for the server to actually open the message, extract the header, and return the value anyway -- that is the part that is resource-intensive on the server side. > That seems to be what happened in Jeffrey Goldberg's test of > individual.net: > > Message-ID: <alpine.OSX.1.10.0804081106570.819@hagrid.ewd.goldmark.org> No; if the message doesn't have the header you're asking for at all, it returns an empty response. His empty responses were because he was asking for headers that the message didn't have. The protocol doesn't allow for not returning the value of the header just because it's not indexed. That is a protocol violation, so there is no defined response that means "not supported". So the response in that case is identical to the response you get when the message doesn't contain the header at all. In other words, there is no way for a newsreader to tell the difference between "not supported" and "supported, but that message doesn't contain that header." > If the server does not return a list of posts matching that header, that > means a filter for that header won't work, right? Right -- if the header exists in the message but the server won't return it, then an XHDR filter will not work for that header. > I have filters that look at these headers to determine whether posts > made to comp.sys.mac.* are from Windows computers: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Would either of these cases be considered abuse, in your opinion? No. Normal newsreader usage should be fine. I would only balk at it if you were checking a huge list of headers in every group you read -- say, 15 or 20 different ones. Even then, I suspect that the number of people doing this is pretty small, so it will probably not cause any kind of problem. The reason the large servers can't support it is because they have millions of users, so pretty much anything that can be done, will be done *a lot*. Smaller servers, with smaller user populations, can handle a few users doing pretty much whatever they want. In other words, don't worry about it, just keep in mind that 10 euros per year at individual.net probably doesn't nearly cover their costs (it's run by a university basically as a public service) so just "be nice". :) SignatureJeremy Nixon | address in header is valid (formerly jeremy@exit109.com) > > Ok. That makes sense - except my understanding of it was that if the > > header is *not* indexed and my client issues a XHDR command for that [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > between "not supported" and "supported, but that message doesn't contain > that header." Ah - ok now it makes sense. Thanks for taking the time to explain. : ) > > I have filters that look at these headers to determine whether posts > > made to comp.sys.mac.* are from Windows computers: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > year at individual.net probably doesn't nearly cover their costs (it's > run by a university basically as a public service) so just "be nice". :) I understand. I think I'll lose my NNTP-Posting-Host filters since they are aging anyway. And I'll use caution creating filters for extra headers in the future. Thanks again for taking the time! > Thanks again for taking the time! No problem. It's actually quite gratifying to me that people are noticing our absence on Usenet -- and that very few of them are saying "good riddance to those w.nkers!" :) SignatureJeremy Nixon | address in header is valid (formerly jeremy@exit109.com) > > Thanks again for taking the time! > > No problem. It's actually quite gratifying to me that people are noticing > our absence on Usenet -- and that very few of them are saying "good riddance > to those w.nkers!" :) Oh anything BUT! If I could pay to have Supernews back, I'd do it in a heart beat, trust me. Supernews is sorely missed! SignaturePlease send all responses to the relevant news group. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. I do not read posts from Google Groups. Use a real news reader if you want me to see your posts. JR > > > Thanks again for taking the time! > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Oh anything BUT! If I could pay to have Supernews back, I'd do it in a > heart beat, trust me. Supernews is sorely missed! The biggest difference I'm seeing is the number of people bitching about the switch. I guess my filters are robust enough to pick up the slack. I'm not seeing any more spam than I saw before Giganews took over. The impact on my usenet experience has been virtually nil. SignatureHelp improve usenet. Kill-file Google Groups. http://improve-usenet.org/ > > > > Thanks again for taking the time! > > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > The biggest difference I'm seeing is the number of people bitching > about the switch. I'm seeing that too, of course, but I'm also seeing that filters I have no longer work, which is irritating. > I guess my filters are robust enough to pick up the slack. I'm not > seeing any more spam than I saw before Giganews took over. I recall initially seeing a bit more spam than normal, but now it's dropped back to near nothing again. > The impact on my usenet experience has been virtually nil. Same here - with the exception of filtering. : ( SignaturePlease send all responses to the relevant news group. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. I do not read posts from Google Groups. Use a real news reader if you want me to see your posts. JR > > > > > Thanks again for taking the time! > > > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > I'm seeing that too, of course, but I'm also seeing that filters I have > no longer work, which is irritating. I had to re-jig a couple, but that's it. SignatureHelp improve usenet. Kill-file Google Groups. http://improve-usenet.org/ > > Thanks again for taking the time! > > No problem. It's actually quite gratifying to me that people are noticing > our absence on Usenet -- and that very few of them are saying "good riddance > to those w.nkers!" :) Oh we've noticed all right. The amount of spam increased by about 600% for me. I'd call that pretty significant. And I was so happy with Supernews.... <sob> >> Here is the index to documentation of common NNTP extensions: > > I'm quite familiar with them, having been in Usenet administration for > well over a decade, right up until the recent buyout and orbital-nuking > of Supernews. :) Well you are clearly more knowledgeable than I. What I do know is that in "Changes since 0.9.7.0a" for slrn (I am running 0.9.8.1) item 9 is: > Use "LIST OVERVIEW.FMT" to make sure we score "inexpensively" on all > information found in the XOVER output. In order to maximise the responsiveness of slrn and minimise the load on Individual.NET I followed the slrn advice to restrict my scoring rules to ones based on information contained in the overview database. How did I know what that information included? I did the obvious thing and issued the LIST OVERVIEW.FMT command myself. Whilst I understand your point that the result of that command was almost a foregone conclusion regardless of the server I was connected to, it does not invalidate it as a method of finding out what slrn considers to be inexpensive information to score on. And if there was a server that included additional information in the overview database and correctly implemented XOVER and LIST OVERVIEW.FMT then slrn would be able to score inexpensively on that additional information. Ian SignatureIan Gregory http://www.zenatode.org.uk/ian/ > Whilst I understand your point that the result of that command was > almost a foregone conclusion regardless of the server I was connected [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > correctly implemented XOVER and LIST OVERVIEW.FMT then slrn would be > able to score inexpensively on that additional information. slrn is done right. It's the Windows newsreaders that end up breaking first. :) SignatureJeremy Nixon | address in header is valid (formerly jeremy@exit109.com) In article <3be98418-db70-4093-b020-43a28436138f@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, > os:mac os leopard10.5.2 > ctrl+cmd+d is a shortcut for apple dictionary panel It does not appear to work on some of the newer Macs- the ones without the apple on the cmd key. I tried it on a friend's new Mac- forget which one and it just plain did not work, yet it works like a charm on all the other acs I've used. I'm referring to it's use in Safari, not some other 3rd party app. Signaturem-m > In article > <3be98418-db70-4093-b020-43a284361...@d1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > -- > m-m Are you aware of any fixes for this? >Are you aware of any fixes for this? I found this forum through a Google search trying to fix this same problem. I ended up having to do an Archive and Install to resolve it. Details on how to do that are here: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107120 I also made a post walking through the entire process on my blog - 2 parts: http://www.davidalison.com/2008/04/mac-dealing-with-apple-support.html http://www.davidalison.com/2008/04/mac-fixing-command-control-d-dictionary.html I hope this helps others with the same problem. --David |
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