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Mac Forum / General / General / December 2006



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ibook OSX 10.4.4 install DVDs ---> old imac G3 400mHz update?

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edemargerie@gmail.com - 29 Dec 2006 17:00 GMT
Dear members,

I want to install OSX on an old G3 400mHz ibook (now using OS 9.2.1).

Besides firmware and RAM issues, which I heard of,
I have the much more simple problem that the old imac only reads CDs,
whereas I only have OSX 10.4.4 on two DVDs that came with my personal
ibook G4.

Will a simple copy from DVD to CD help ?
Will MacOSX for ibook work on an older imac anyway ?
If incompatibility exists, how much can OsX-for-imac-on-CD reasonnably
cost ? ;)

Hope to hear from you soon,
Thanks,

Manu (Rennes, France).
Alice Faber - 29 Dec 2006 17:07 GMT
> Dear members,
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Will a simple copy from DVD to CD help ?

No

> Will MacOSX for ibook work on an older imac anyway ?

No

> If incompatibility exists, how much can OsX-for-imac-on-CD reasonnably
> cost ? ;)

Current retail (full installation) versions of OS X come on DVD only;
you can exchange the DVD for a CD set for something like $20 (or the
equivalent in Euros). The full price at Apple is something like $149
(working from memory); in the US at any rate, there are discounts
available (educational, etc.).

Signature

AF
"Non Sequitur U has a really, really lousy debate team."
             --artyw raises the bar on rec.sport.baseball

Király - 29 Dec 2006 17:27 GMT
> Will a simple copy from DVD to CD help ?

No.  

> Will MacOSX for ibook work on an older imac anyway ?

It's doubtful, but there's a small chance it will work.  You won't know
unless you try.  And even if you can get it to work, it would only be
legal if you removed OS X from the iBook.  The licence only permits OS X
to be installed on one computer at a time.

> If incompatibility exists, how much can OsX-for-imac-on-CD reasonnably
> cost ? ;)

The cost of a retail Tiger package, plus the fee for Apple's Media
Exchange Program.

http://images.apple.com/macosx/pdf/TigerMXOrderForm.pdf

Signature

K.

Lang may your lum reek.

edemargerie@gmail.com - 29 Dec 2006 18:13 GMT
Thanks for your quick replies guys.

At last this sounds clear to me. Now I have to find some nice person
having a 10.3 or 10.4 on CDs.

Bye,

Manu.
historystamp@yahoo.com - 30 Dec 2006 05:41 GMT
> Dear members,
>
> I want to install OSX on an old G3 400mHz ibook (now using OS 9.2.1).

Here is the list of machines that run 10.4
http://www.apple.com/macosx/upgrade/requirements.html

Basically, 10.4 requires a firewire port.

MacOS 10.3 requires a USB port.

You might try a European ebay site to see if you can pick up a 10.3 or
10.2 cd.  

Robert
David Empson - 30 Dec 2006 06:49 GMT
> > I want to install OSX on an old G3 400mHz ibook (now using OS 9.2.1).
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> MacOS 10.3 requires a USB port.

I assume "400 MHz ibook" was a typo, as there was no 400 MHz iBook
model, and the subject line says iMac.

All 400 MHz iMac models have Firewire, so they are able to run 10.4. It
should be OK as long as the machine has a reasonable amount of RAM (say
512 MB or more). If you have less RAM than that, sticking to 10.3 might
be more practical.

Hard drive space is also an issue: you should have at least 10 GB free
before considering an installation of 10.4, and more would be a good
idea. The OS installation will only take about 4 GB, but you need a
reasonable amount of free space for virtual memory and general growth
after installing applications. 10.3 is a little smaller (maybe 3 GB) but
you still need a fair amount of free space after installation.

10.3 might be easier, because it comes on CDs and is less hungry for RAM
and hard drive. It will also be cheaper (second hand only), but make
sure you get a full retail install version, not a machine-specific
version, and not an "upgrade" version.

Signature

David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

edemargerie@gmail.com - 30 Dec 2006 16:43 GMT
Thanks all for the details and explanations ! ;)

and sorry for the "ibook" mistake. Of course it's a G3 400mHz iMac
(blue - indigo I think...)

I will look for a 10.3 system on CDs. Actually somebody from the group
already proposed .. what a dynamic and nice community !!

By the way, I am looking for some megs of RAM, as it seems I will need
at least 512.
For the moment there are 2 x 64mb cards. These are PC100 (322 620)
SDRAM DIMM.

I found a 512 mb card at a nice price in pixmania, but it is PC133.

http://www.pixmania.com/fr/fr/174070/art/pixmania/memoire-pc-512-mo-sdram-p.html

I went to the apple website to find information on wether my elderly
iMac would accept PC133 ...

I found that some iMac models came with PC100, and others with PC100 or
PC133.

for example :
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58474

However I was unable to determine if my release #406 iMac is one or the
other ... I'm a little bit lost among the multiple releases.

What do you think about that ? is the PC133/PC100 a real issue ?

Manu.
David Empson - 30 Dec 2006 22:25 GMT
> By the way, I am looking for some megs of RAM, as it seems I will need
> at least 512.

The maximum RAM supported in a 400 MHz iMac G3 is 1 GB (two 512 MB
PC-100 SDRAM DIMMs).

I ran about Mac OS X 10.1 on my 400 MHz iMac in 384 MB, and it was
reasonably OK. My user group still has that model, and we were running
10.3 in 256 MB, which was OK was long as we didn't run anything memory
hungry or try to run multiple applications. That wouldn't be enough for
10.4. I think we've upgraded the RAM since then but I haven't had a
close look at the computer for a while.

> For the moment there are 2 x 64mb cards. These are PC100 (322 620)
> SDRAM DIMM.

You could start by replacing one of the 64MB DIMMs with a 512MB. That
should be enough for most tasks. If the machine seems unbearably slow in
normal use and you can hear a lot of disk activity when switching
between applications, then you probably need more RAM and should
consider replacing the other 64 MB DIMM with a larger one.

There isn't much point getting 256 MB, apart from saving a few dollars.
You would probably just have to upgrade it again.

I have 768 MB in my PowerBook G4 and it used to be enough but is getting
too small as the operating system and applications keep getting larger
and wasting memory for no useful reason (lazy programming, bugs, or just
for pretty graphics).

> I found a 512 mb card at a nice price in pixmania, but it is PC133.

PC133 memory is usually compatible with PC100. The only problem is with
cheaper memory which doesn't fully comply with the standards.

DIMMs contain a "serial presence detect" EEPROM (a small amount of
non-volatile memory) which is supposed to contain information to allow
the computer to identify the speed and size of the DIMM. The Mac depends
on this information being programmed correctly, and cheaper memory
sometimes omits all or some of this data. For PC133 to work in a PC100
machine, the EEPROM on the DIMM must contain settings for both 133 and
100 MHz bus speeds.

There are also some special types of memory which might not work in a
Mac but which also use "PC100" or "PC133" as part of their description.
In particular, there are two form factors: you want a normal size DIMM,
not a SO-DIMM. Some Mac models also have physical size restrictions on
the DIMM, due to lack of space (this shouldn't apply to your iMac).

Your safest bet is to buy memory from a dealer who will guarantee that
it will work on your particular Mac model, or who will accept a return
with no questions asked (if the memory doesn't work).

One option is Other World Computing <http://www.macsales.com>, who are a
specialist Mac dealer. They are selling memory which is described as
supporting both PC133 and PC100.

> I went to the apple website to find information on wether my elderly
> iMac would accept PC133 ...
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> for example :
> http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58474

That is the specifications for either your model or the one immediately
before it, but they are almost identical. (I'm not sure whether you have
a "Slot Loading" model, which is late 1999, or a "Summer 2000" model,
which is mid 2000.)

> However I was unable to determine if my release #406 iMac is one or the
> other ... I'm a little bit lost among the multiple releases.

That "406" number is meaningless. That is the machine ID using the old
numbering system that was used on 68K and early PowerMac models, now
known as "old world". All models starting with the iMac (with built-in
USB) have the same ID number, revealing it to be a "new world"
architecture. There is a separate string which identifies the general
model, and for your iMac it would be "PowerMac2,1" or "PowerMac2,2"
depending on whether your iMac is the late 1999 or mid 2000 model. In
some cases this string isn't sufficient to identify the specific model,
and you need to look at other characteristics to narrow it down further
(e.g. processor speed or type of graphics card).

Both of those iMac models require PC100 memory. They will only work with
PC133 memory if that memory is also configured to operate at the slower
PC100 speed.

Signature

David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

edemargerie@gmail.com - 31 Dec 2006 09:26 GMT
Thanks Dave for your detailed answer.

> > For the moment there are 2 x 64mb cards. These are PC100 (322 620)
> > SDRAM DIMM.
>
> You could start by replacing one of the 64MB DIMMs with a 512MB. That
> should be enough for most tasks.

This is what I was intending to do.

> you want a normal size DIMM,
> Your safest bet is to buy memory from a dealer who will guarantee that
> it will work on your particular Mac model, or who will accept a return
> with no questions asked (if the memory doesn't work).

Ok, I will try to locate PC100 DIMMs guaranteed for 400mHz Imac (I saw
some on ldlc.fr)

> One option is Other World Computing <http://www.macsales.com>, who are a
> specialist Mac dealer. They are selling memory which is described as
> supporting both PC133 and PC100.

I will take a look there too. Thanks a lot.

Manu.
Jolly Roger - 31 Dec 2006 13:59 GMT
> Ok, I will try to locate PC100 DIMMs guaranteed for 400mHz Imac (I saw
> some on ldlc.fr)
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> I will take a look there too. Thanks a lot.

IMO, your first stop for Mac memory should always be RamSeeker:

    <http://ramseeker.com>

(Use the menu at the top-left corner of the web page to select your Mac
model - in your case it would be "iMac 300-700mhz")

Not only does RamSeeker do a pretty fine job of tracking a multitude of
online RAM merchant's Mac RAM prices, but they make deals with
merchants to give you special RamSeeker-only prices if you purchase Mac
RAM with a click through the RamSeeker web site!

It looks like "Apple-recommended" RAM for your computer sells for
$69.00 on 1.800.4.memory right now.
They also have 100% specification certified RAM for your iMac on sale
for $54.00 right now.

Anyhow, I always start with RamSeeker. I've purchased most of the RAM
for myself and family members from 1.800.4.memory.com through RamSeeker
for the past 5 or 6 years, and haven't encountered a bad RAM chip yet.
Highly recommended for their pricing and value.

Signature

JR

Michelle Steiner - 31 Dec 2006 16:29 GMT
> Not only does RamSeeker do a pretty fine job of tracking a multitude
> of online RAM merchant's Mac RAM prices, but they make deals with
> merchants to give you special RamSeeker-only prices if you purchase
> Mac RAM with a click through the RamSeeker web site!

Why are Crucial's prices so much more expensive than others?  1 Gig for
an Intel iMac ranges from $97.50 to $137 from other vendors, but they're
charging $178.50.  Smalldog, which isn't listed by RamSeeker, charges
$135.  Other World Computing charges $133, also not listed by RamSeeker.  
The Chip Merchant charges $122, not listed by RamSeeker.

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