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Mac Forum / General / Hardware / January 2006Need More Hard Drive Space, Advice Please!
In order to transfer video (analog converted to digital) to Toast to burn it to DVD, I need enough space to do two hours of video at a time. This is how much space I have now: Hard Drive Info Kind: Volume Format: Mac OS Extended Capacity: 57.26 GB Available: 36.32 GB Used: 20.94 GB on disk (22,486,904,832 bytes) Barely enough, if that, as it is. I also have to upgrade my system (from Mac OSX 10.2.8 to 10.3.9), install one new browser, update another, upgrade Toast from 6 to 7, and update at least Quicktime if not iDVD and iMovie, all of which will take up space! What kinds of internal and external drives are available, and how much space will they give me? I'd love an internal one as I have devices connected to every USB and FireWire port as it is and of course have had to make spaces for all those devices, but if an external drive is really better for some reason I am open to that as well. Thanks for any advice. Cori > In order to transfer video (analog converted to digital) to Toast to > burn it to DVD, I need enough space to do two hours of video at a time. [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Thanks for any advice. What kind of Mac do you have? I believe you can get external drives of at least 1 TB, or more now, which should be plenty big. I don't know what internal drives are available. However, my iMac G5 has a 250 GB internal drive, and my PM Dualie 2.0 has 160 GB. Your mileage may vary, depending on which Mac you own.  SignatureDave Fritzinger Honolulu, HI > What kind of Mac do you have? I believe you can get external drives of > at least 1 TB, or more now, which should be plenty big. I don't know [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Dave Fritzinger > Honolulu, HI It's a Power Mac G4. People recommended I buy an external FireWire drive, but every USB and FireWire port on it now has a device connected, and much of the space around it is taken up with housing these devices, so if I could get an internal drive which would be just as good as an external I'd appreciate it, but if an external has vast advantages I'll bite the bullet and get the external, thanks. Cori >> What kind of Mac do you have? I believe you can get external drives of >> at least 1 TB, or more now, which should be plenty big. I don't know [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >as good as an external I'd appreciate it, but if an external has vast >advantages I'll bite the bullet and get the external, thanks. You can run out of ports with USB as each has to have it's own connection. However with firewire you can usually just chain them together so you can have many FW devices with only one connector on the computer. All the FW peripherals I have do have two connectors so you can daisy chain them. Check your devices and if you have some with pass-thru and others with just one connector put the single connector device at the end of the chain. Bill SignatureBill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com > You can run out of ports with USB as each has to have it's own connection. I'm puzzled in that I have a Belkin USB 2 hub with seven USB devices attached and everything is working just fine. SignatureJames L. Ryan -- TaliesinSoft > > You can run out of ports with USB as each has to have it's own connection. > > I'm puzzled in that I have a Belkin USB 2 hub with seven USB devices attached > and everything is working just fine. You can also daisy chain hubs. I have 6 devices on 2 powered hubs. Signature"All music is folk music. I ain't never heard no horse sing a song." - Louis Armstrong > You can run out of ports with USB as each has to have it's own > connection. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Bill That works, and they don't run slower or short out or anything? How scary! Cori >> You can run out of ports with USB as each has to have it's own >> connection. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> Bill >That works, and they don't run slower or short out or anything? How >scary! Because that's the way Firewire was designed. You can connect up to 16 devices in a row [per node] with a limit of 63 devices over four nodes. In USB you can chain hubs to together and have up to 127 devices but you'll need power supplies for each hub. The Firewire comes in two style of connectors - 6 pin and 4 pin. The 6 pin has power and control and the 4 pin is simpler - such as that used in video cameras and digital cameras. FW will always run at 400Mbs [or the new 800Mbs] so your speed is guaranteed to be constant. Firewire is also known as IEEE-1394 - which is the true specification name. In Sony devices it's called I-link. USB power from the PC is a maximum of 500 milli-amps while Firewire delivers up to 1.5 amps [ or 1500 milli-amps for direct comparison]. The USB has a maximum transfer of 480Mbs and while it's raw speed is faster than FW it takes more computer power. And FW devices can talk to each other without having to have the computer do any work. The latter is sort of like what SCSI was >supposed< to do, but I've never seen implemented. However not all FW ports that >are built on motherboards< work as they should so you are better of with a separate card, or have a built in FW as I have on my fairly high-end SoundBlaster. If you do a lot of video and/or attached hard drives you should have fewer problems with FW - and the operative word there is 'should'. Bill Bill SignatureBill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com > In order to transfer video (analog converted to digital) to Toast to > burn it to DVD, I need enough space to do two hours of video at a time. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Available: 36.32 GB > Used: 20.94 GB on disk (22,486,904,832 bytes) Two hours of video takes up about 9 GB of space. Since you have 36 GB of space available, it's difficult for me to see your problem. SignatureArt, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html Nanohazard, Geek shirts, and more: http://www.villaintees.com > > In order to transfer video (analog converted to digital) to Toast to > > burn it to DVD, I need enough space to do two hours of video at a time. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Two hours of video takes up about 9 GB of space. Since you have 36 GB of > space available, it's difficult for me to see your problem. Tacit, Your math is a bit off. DV Stream video takes up approximately 200MB/minute -- two hours will consume over 24GB. SignatureSpenser >> > In order to transfer video (analog converted to digital) to Toast to >> > burn it to DVD, I need enough space to do two hours of video at a time. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >Your math is a bit off. DV Stream video takes up approximately >200MB/minute -- two hours will consume over 24GB. And the DVI output from home video cameras is a bit under that - and my ADVC 300 runs about to about 9GB per-hour a bit under the regular DV but still a lot. With the OPs 36GB space he can capture, but when it comes to editing and building DVD images he is going to run out of space before he gets too far. I added a 160GB drive that I use only for video capture, editing and DVD building - and I have to keep up and make sure I clean often. Even at regular DVD sizes I suck up about 14GB doing work. Take the 4+GB for the orginal data that is read in from a DVD source [such as my DVR], another 4GB in the editing mode that builds an .mpg file, and at least that much [sometimes more] for building the ISO image. Bill SignatureBill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com > > In order to transfer video (analog converted to digital) to Toast to > > burn it to DVD, I need enough space to do two hours of video at a time. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Two hours of video takes up about 9 GB of space. Since you have 36 GB of > space available, it's difficult for me to see your problem. Sure, AFTER its been converted from the original DV capture into compressed MPEG-2 during the DVD authoring process. Though I would add a note of caution on externals I needed more space on my pc. Bought an extern WD firewire/usb. Thing crashed taking some project files with it. Could not turn on for a while. Then could get it to spin but the pc could not see it. After a couple days started working again. Wanted to use it to take my rough edits to editor. Problem: can't plug ntfs into mac. Can plug into network but the studio's network transfer rate was slower than real time. Editor bought a external hard drive. (It's a after hours project at a major post house in Seattle.-, so he can't leave footage on machine. Against my advice, the editor was using the external as the project drive. You guessed it. It crashed, taking two days work with it. Bottom line for me: externals are ng for pc/mac transfers. And they should only be used for backup storage. External is going back to New Egg. Buying a Seagate internal. I've had pretty good luck with externals so far, but my personal favorite is my SCSI raid array. I think you can get "firewire" and/or USB systems now (mine is old). I have it set up with 4 200gigs in a Raid 5 configuration. You only get 3 drives worth of space because of the redundancy scheme, but it is self repairing. If a drive fails, it will beep at you, and try to rebuild itself. If the drive has gone terminal, then you just yank out the bad one out and put a new one in and it will rebuild itself. If you let 2 drives fail you are screwed though. Some Raid arrays even let you hot swap the drives so there is no down time. You can continue to use the array while it is rebuilding. David >Though I would add a note of caution on externals >I needed more space on my pc. Bought an extern WD firewire/usb. Thing >crashed taking some project files with it. Could not turn on for a >while. Then could get it to spin but the pc could not see it. After a >couple days started working again. >Wanted to use it to take my rough edits to editor. Problem: can't plug >ntfs into mac. Can plug into network but the studio's network transfer >rate was slower than real time. Then you had to be using USB and it probably defaulted to the 1.x mode. Firewire works quite well in realtime. It's 400Mb/sec which is faster than the DV transfer rate. >Editor bought a external hard drive. (It's a after hours project at a >major post house in Seattle.-, so he can't leave footage on machine. >Against my advice, the editor was using the external as the project >drive. You guessed it. It crashed, taking two days work with it. >Bottom line for me: externals are ng for pc/mac transfers. And they >should only be used for backup storage. >External is going back to New Egg. Buying a Seagate internal. You didn't mention was the internal drive was inside the enclosure you got from New Egg. Drives vary just as do automobiles - some are fast some are slow - with prices to match. Bill SignatureBill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com >>Though I would add a note of caution on externals >>I needed more space on my pc. Bought an extern WD firewire/usb. Thing [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >mode. Firewire works quite well in realtime. It's 400Mb/sec >which is faster than the DV transfer rate. I know. Way faster. My understanding was that the bottleneck was the network itself, not the interface. >>Editor bought a external hard drive. (It's a after hours project at a >>major post house in Seattle.-, so he can't leave footage on machine. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >You didn't mention was the internal drive was inside the enclosure >you got from New Egg. Huh? I bought an WD external USB + Firewire from newegg. Going to replace it with a Seagate internal. >Drives vary just as do automobiles - some are fast some are slow - >with prices to match. Sure, I can believe that. But externals have made my life hell for the last week. Not enthusiastic about them. >>Drives vary just as do automobiles - some are fast some are slow - >>with prices to match. > > Sure, I can believe that. But externals have made my life hell for the > last week. Not enthusiastic about them. One thing I might add is that drives intended to be used as internal drives can be very fragile. I broke one by dropping it about 3/4", and that was with one edge already resting on the table. I also had a CompUSA external enclosure go flaky after traveling with it, but the drive was still fine. I have not diagnosed it yet, so I don't know what failed. David > Though I would add a note of caution on externals > I needed more space on my pc. Bought an extern WD firewire/usb. Thing [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ntfs into mac. Can plug into network but the studio's network transfer > rate was slower than real time. HEY! Do I need to know this/do this for my proposed project (burning a two-hour DVDs using Toast 7?) Please tell me NOW before I get halfway through, need to know something else I don't, then find out what I got won't do it! > Editor bought a external hard drive. (It's a after hours project at a > major post house in Seattle.-, so he can't leave footage on machine. > Against my advice, the editor was using the external as the project > drive. You guessed it. It crashed, taking two days work with it. Now, maybe I misunderstood--please, PLEASE tell me I didn't--but if I did, I want to know NOW, not later, certainly not too late. As I understood, I needed the extra/external Hard Drive space only WHILE the project was going through (from whatever form it is going in to whatever form it has to take to become the DVD) and then the DVD was the finished product. That authoring and producing the DVD would take a reasonable amount of time, the DVD would be the finished product, and I would NOT have to leave work sitting around in the external Hard Drive! If I got this wrong, please tell me BEFORE I spend another $100-$200 on an external Hard Drive and then screw something up! > Bottom line for me: externals are ng for pc/mac transfers. And they > should only be used for backup storage. > > External is going back to New Egg. Buying a Seagate internal. Thanks for all the scary stories, though. It shows you're taking the subject seriously. Cori > What kinds of internal and external drives are available Depending on what kind of internal interface you have, I would recommend the fastest hard drive you can afford - 10,000 rpm preferably - and SATA if possible. This should give you the best possible performance for video work, or this is how I understand it anyway. Should be able to get a 72GB pretty cheap. My computer is a Mac G4 and this is what my System Profiler says about it: Hardware Overview: +----------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | Machine speed : 867 MHz | | Bus speed : 133 MHz | | Number of processors : 2 | | L2 cache size : 256K (times 2) | | L3 cache size : 1MB (times 2) | | Machine model : Power Mac G4 (version = 2.1) | | Boot ROM info : 4.4.6f2 Cori Not to put a fine edge on the problem, but you do not seem to understand that the more storage space you have on your computer (read hard drive) the better off you are when handling video. Get thee to a computer store and see if you can get a 250 - 300 gig hard drive that will work in/with your G4. If you persist in asking silly questions like "do I need more hard drive space" on this news group, the hard core experts will eat you for lunch. Regards, Marv > My computer is a Mac G4 and this is what my System Profiler says about > it: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > > Cori I took his question as not does he need more (not enough info to answer that anyway, if anyone could for another) but how best to add HDD space. I'd go with some sort of external firewire drive (e.g., the 300 GB unit I have on my desktop for mass storage). > Not to put a fine edge on the problem, but you do not seem to understand > that the more storage space you have on your computer (read hard drive) [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >> >> Cori > I took his question as not does he need more (not enough info to answer > that anyway, if anyone could for another) but how best to add HDD space. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > > > Marv Go to the head of the class, Phil! My question was not "Do I need more hard drive space?" but, I ABSOLUTELY need more! Short of buying a new computer, MUST it come in the form of an external drive, and if so HOW do I connect it without disconnecting something else every time I want to use it? (Thanks to you guys I now know that if I end up ordering an external FireWire drive to also order some type of unit or hub to connect more than one device at a time.) I'd like to go internal so as not to have one more device hooked up, but I don't want to mess up my existing Hard Drive, so external may be best. Cori > I'd like to go internal so as not to have one more device hooked up, > but I don't want to mess up my existing Hard Drive, so external may be > best. > > Cori you wont mess up your main drive with an inernal drive the ide controller will take care of that . if you are uncomfortable with opening the case up find a mac dealer or even a reputable pc dealer can install and format using your disc utility and pay them for their time it shouldn't be much and some may do it at no charge if you purchase the hd from them . dan On 1/17/2006, cmashieldscapting@hotmail.com managed to type: >> I took his question as not does he need more (not enough info to answer >> that anyway, if anyone could for another) but how best to add HDD space. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > Cori From your many, many posts, I have come to believe that this whole thing has been stressing you too much. I am considering advising you to give up video as a hobby, and to take up a simpler hobby, such as learning to play the uillean pipes... HTH, Gino SignatureGene E. Bloch (Gino) letters617blochg3251 (replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom") > From your many, many posts, I have come to believe that this whole > thing has been stressing you too much. I am considering advising you to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > HTH, > Gino Hmmm, wise guy, eh? (I should tell him I'm already expert level in that and looking for a challenge...I shoulda said...I shoulda said....) Cori On 1/18/2006, cmashieldscapting@hotmail.com managed to type: >> From your many, many posts, I have come to believe that this whole >> thing has been stressing you too much. I am considering advising you to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Cori If you can play the uillean pipes you are far more talented and skilled than I am - I can barely play a recorder (wooden flute, not tape machine...). Yeah, I am a wise guy, but I sincerely do think you're pretty stressed about this, and was trying to give not 100% unreasonable advice in my warped manner :-) HTH, Gino SignatureGene E. Bloch (Gino) letters617blochg3251 (replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom") > On 1/18/2006, cmashieldscapting@hotmail.com managed to type: > > Hmmm, wise guy, eh? (I should tell him I'm already expert level in > > that and looking for a challenge...I shoulda said...I shoulda said....) [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > HTH, > Gino Gino, nooo! Why would staring at a computer screen 4-6 hours a day, staying up till 4 a.m., then lying awake staring into the dark for another hour before I can sleep, for weeks on end, make me stressed? I come from pioneer stock. We are made of much sterner stuff than this! Actually, you're one of the wisest guys around here! Cori On 1/19/2006, cmashieldscapting@hotmail.com managed to type: >> On 1/18/2006, cmashieldscapting@hotmail.com managed to type: > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Cori Oh, oh. Now you're being sarcastic! I think... Even pioneer stock could be stressed by all this, n'est-ce pas? Now I have to figure out whether you mean I am wise as in exercising judgment, or wise as in wise-a.s :-) I'm now retired from a career of sorts in computer programming or software engineering, and I found there was plenty of stress in that career. I usually solved the problem at hand, but I didn't always know up front that I would. I'll reiterate my support of the idea of getting an expert to sit down with you to work on this. By now, I don't know which of several long threads that idea was in or who proposed it, but anyway, that seems to me the best plan to resolve your situation. Gino SignatureGene E. Bloch (Gino) letters617blochg3251 (replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom") > On 1/19/2006, cmashieldscapting@hotmail.com managed to type: > [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > Gino not just the stress is at issue here!!! If Cori would bother to simply open the G4s side door and look at the hard drive bays he'll notice right next to his hard drive are cables for power and data sitting there waiting for a second hard drive. He could buy a 250 gig (most recommended for the G4) and plug her in and boot and the system will see the new hard drive and prompt him right through formatting. Presto!!! No harm no foul. > If Cori would bother to simply open the G4s side door and look at the > hard drive bays he'll notice right next to his hard drive are cables for [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > boot and the system will see the new hard drive and prompt him right > through formatting. I think Cori's a female. She takes 10, no, 20 lines to say what a male can say in 1 line. > > If Cori would bother to simply open the G4s side door and look at the > > hard drive bays he'll notice right next to his hard drive are cables for [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I think Cori's a female. She takes 10, no, 20 lines to say what a male > can say in 1 line. What, me mess with that big, shiny, scary-lookin' thing? The only door I've ever gotten to open is the disk drive--by pressing the little arrow key in the uppermost left hand corner, it pops open to insert a CD or DVD. I'd have no IDEA how to open anything else! Finally got hold of the guy I originally tried to contact and he said an 8 MB buffer was okay. MacMall listed lots of good choices of internal hard drives with 8 MB buffers. I called them, and it's a good thing I DID call rather than just ordering online as most or all were out of stock! The MacMall sales rep was real nice and directed me to order at ecost.com. I had two other things to buy (Toast 7, for one, and for another I decided to go with Tiger 10.4.3 after all and get it over with, since I can have it installed at the same time as the hard drive. STILL haven't heard from the seller from whom I was buying Tiger 3.0 and it hasn't arrived yet, but will continue to pursue getting my money back.) Well, ecost was selling Tiger for about $20 more than MacMall was, but the Toast was about $20 less so I think I came out about even and they say they can have it here in time (by Thursday morning, to do me some good)! Cori > What, me mess with that big, shiny, scary-lookin' thing? The only door > I've ever gotten to open is the disk drive--by pressing the little [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > came out about even and they say they can have it here in time (by > Thursday morning, to do me some good)! Cori, can we hire you to write our Family Christmas Letter next year? But ... what's this "Tiger 3.0" of which you speak? What have you bought without consulting us? The current Mac OS is called "X" and sometimes pronounced "Ten." The Big Cat names are just kindly code names given to the major revisions, and it all started with 10.0, which (you don't need to know this but) was just a direct port of NeXtStep, which was never pronounced "NeTenStep" but I digress. Next Major Revision was 10.1, I believe code-named Puma, then 10.2, code-named Jaguar and then 10.3, code-named Panther and now 10.4, which is our Tiger. The next one will be 10.5, or Leopard, we're told, and will only run on a dual-core Cray or something. The "minor revision" is after the 2nd dot -- 10.2.8 or 10.3.9 or 10.4.4, like that. But there was never a Tiger 3.0, so I would ask for your money back or you'll sue. Meanwhile, it's been a very good year. Kaylee has been discharged with a full bill of health, and the prosecutor says that Dylan's case will probably never come to trial!! SignatureW. Oates Teal'c: He is concealing something. O'Neil: What is it? Teal'c: I do not know, he is concealing it. > Cori, can we hire you to write our Family Christmas Letter next year? Now, there's something I might be good at! > But ... what's this "Tiger 3.0" of which you speak? What have you bought > without consulting us? So...now I can't tell a Panther from a Tiger? More likely I was rushed and a lot more worried about the seller's refunds policy than big cat names. All I heard from the seller is, "Don't worry, it's been shipped"--nothing yet about being able to return it due to its arriving way late and changing my mind in the meantime. What I ended up getting was a Western Digital 250GB Caviar RE 7200 RPM Enhanced IDE Hard Drive "Designed and manufactured to enterprise-class standards, WD Caviar RE drives provide enhanced reliability in a 24x7, continuous duty cycle environment." I told the Mac experts at the computer place specifically for what purposes I wanted it and they said it would work. Cori In article <1138215891.653216.181270@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>, > What I ended up getting was a Western Digital 250GB Caviar RE 7200 RPM > Enhanced IDE Hard Drive [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Cori I hope it is ok to pray aloud here? God, in your Infinite Wisdom, please help the staff at that computer place if it does not work... Signaturedorayme > I hope it is ok to pray aloud here? > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > -- > dorayme Hey, how about helping ME? It will all be installed on Thursday--IF it arrives as promised. It's cost way way WAAAY more than just buying a digital camera would have, but there's SO much more I can do with this setup! Cori > (Thanks to you guys I now know that if I end up ordering an external > FireWire drive to also order some type of unit or hub to connect more [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > but I don't want to mess up my existing Hard Drive, so external may be > best No, look, _Firewire_ is the best, and you can "chain" the devices together, so you _don't_ need a hub, and you can boot your Mac from Firewire but not always from USB2 and we don't know if you have USB2 on your machine or not. And _you_ should have an external drive because because we don't want you to go trying to install a new HD inside your Mac ... If you can afford it, get a "dual" external, i.e. one that has both USB2 and Firewire connections, suspenders and a belt, that way you can use it on your Windows machine when you move to the dark side. Firewire is also called IEEE-1394 and if you have a Sony DV camera you'll probably see it called iLink. SignatureW. Oates "I thought I was the last son of Krypton, but you people keep popping up." -- Clark Kent > > (Thanks to you guys I now know that if I end up ordering an external > > FireWire drive to also order some type of unit or hub to connect more [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > No, look, _Firewire_ is the best, and you can "chain" the devices > together, so you _don't_ need a hub, Well, I've been here shifting from one foot to another waiting for someone to SAY it instead of just *suggesting* it. > and you can boot your Mac from > Firewire but not always from USB2 and we don't know if you have USB2 on > your machine or not. As for the USB2, do we need to know? If we don't, let's just keep it that way; if we do, let me know how to determine it and I'll look. This is probably a stupid question which will get me into all kinds of trouble, (but what else is new?) Will an external hard drive be anything like a Mac, if not a G4 exactly then a smaller, less sophisticated Mac? That is, as far as having enough memory to put an OS, applications, and so on on it, and connect it directly to the monitor, keyboard, and mouse if needs be? The reason I ask is that if anything should go wrong with the main Mac and it should need to be taken for repair, could the external hard drive be made into a temporary Mac, or is it just an accessory lacking the basic capacities of a real Mac? (Of course, the Mac has been taken in for repair only twice; once they took the monitor, the other time they didn't.) (Right now my only backup should everything go down is a Web TV, and it doesn't even work, for one because I'm changing ISPs on Monday and will no longer have the service, for another the keyboard got sorta wrecked when a whole lotta water spilled on it, so I'd need a new keyboard even to make it work. So even a tiny temporary backup beats having to run to the public library!) > And _you_ should have an external drive because > because we don't want you to go trying to install a new HD inside your > Mac ... Okay, THAT I understand! Don't wanna short its little brains out, I have too much time, money, and work invested in it! I've been in this HUUUGE quandary, afraid to even ASK a seller about hard drives because "what if I get the wrong thing?" Okay, I chose the video camera for three reasons: 1. It was cheap, and 2. My sister had (the earlier model of) an identical camera on which I'd already shot a dozen 8mm cassettes and why change systems? and 3. I don't trust those digital doohickies anyway! Suppose they freeze up or skip and decide to lose all my data for me? Now, tape, I'm used to, been using it in various forms for over twenty years. So, on the one hand, the camera I chose was the WRONG thing because it not only isn't digital but doesn't interface both ways even with a converter. On the other hand, it was RIGHT because not only am I more comfortable with it, but to do this project I had to buy this equipment which will enable me to do ALL SORTS of other projects! > If you can afford it, get a "dual" external, i.e. one that has both USB2 > and Firewire connections, suspenders and a belt, that way you can use it > on your Windows machine when you move to the dark side. They'll never get meeee! Nooooooo! > Firewire is also called IEEE-1394 and if you have a Sony DV camera > you'll probably see it called iLink. > -- > W. Oates > "I thought I was the last son of Krypton, > but you people keep popping up." -- Clark Kent Thanks for all the help and advice! Cori > Will an external hard drive be > anything like a Mac, if not a G4 exactly then a smaller, less [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > of a real Mac? (Of course, the Mac has been taken in for repair only > twice; once they took the monitor, the other time they didn't.) Is this some kind of psychology experiment? SignatureW. Oates Teal'c: He is concealing something. O'Neil: What is it? Teal'c: I do not know, he is concealing it. > > Will an external hard drive be > > anything like a Mac, if not a G4 exactly then a smaller, less [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > O'Neil: What is it? > Teal'c: I do not know, he is concealing it. Naturally if it worked that way, they'd probably tell you, but I thought what the heck, I'd ask. So if the main machine has a nervous breakdown, the external hard drive has to just sit there till it's fixed? As it can't be used apart from the main Mac? Is that how it works? These are the items I looked at *just* from the catalog. Never mind what-all else may be on the website and when I call describing my needs they may sell me something else entirely that no one ever even heard of: FireWire Only: http://www.macmall.com/macmall/search/search.asp?search=241751&NavID_Search=fals e&submit1.x=12&submit1.y=10&CurDSN=simple&calledfrom=1&incimage=on http://www.macmall.com/macmall/search/search.asp?search=267261&NavID_Search=fals e&submit1.x=15&submit1.y=12&CurDSN=simple&calledfrom=1&incimage=on (This one is by LaCie, the same company that made my DVD burner, if that makes a difference.) http://www.macmall.com/macmall/search/search.asp?search=525367&NavID_Search=fals e&submit1.x=18&submit1.y=12&CurDSN=simple&calledfrom=1&incimage=on (Supposed to be specially made for the needs of video and audio pros--is this a good or a bad thing? Does it limit the drive too much to only specific uses and should I go for something more versatile?) FireWire and USB: http://www.macmall.com/macmall/search/search.asp?search=598221&NavID_Search=fals e&submit1.x=15&submit1.y=10&CurDSN=simple&calledfrom=1&incimage=on http://www.macmall.com/macmall/search/search.asp?search=262214&NavID_Search=fals e&submit1.x=12&submit1.y=11&CurDSN=simple&calledfrom=1&incimage=on (For some reason this costs significantly more) Triple Interface: http://www.macmall.com/macmall/search/search.asp?search=496877&NavID_Search=fals e&submit1.x=15&submit1.y=10&CurDSN=simple&calledfrom=1&incimage=on http://www.macmall.com/macmall/search/search.asp?search=605781&NavID_Search=fals e&submit1.x=17&submit1.y=13&CurDSN=simple&calledfrom=1&incimage=on (LaCie Extreme Triple Interface) I am BOGGLED by choices! Cori > > Will an external hard drive be > > anything like a Mac, if not a G4 exactly then a smaller, less [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Is this some kind of psychology experiment? "Any sufficiently clueless poster is indistinguishable from a troll." In article <1137632527.056073.324350@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, > Will an external hard drive be > anything like a Mac No. An external hard drive is like a reporters notebook. It is nothing like the reporter herself. Signaturedorayme > In article > <1137632527.056073.324350@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > -- > dorayme Thanks for the nice answer, and as for the others which are no doubt coming, since I'm sure plenty of people will be in line to jump on me after seeing my question, I will at least attempt to explain my thinking when I posted it. (My real question, of course, is what should I buy to make the situation better rather than worse, but other questions arise just trying to understand what I'm looking at.) I can't help observing that my Mac G4 has a capacity of only 57.26 GB. The external Hard Drives at which I am looking START at 120 GB, most of them at 160 GB, and go up from there. Perhaps wondering "why" is in the end futile and useless, but I can't help wondering, how can the "little, supplemental" thing have not only more, but way, WAY more capacity than the "big, main" thing? Not asking for an answer, as my tiny tiny brain would doubtless be far too small to comprehend it and waste the time of the great minds here, but without knowing I *suppose* 1. My Mac G4 was built several years ago when everything had less memory. 2. "If it only had a brain": So much memory is used up programming where to put everything a Mac needs to run it only has so much space left, that's why you need the supplemental hard drive, which has all kinds of space as it doesn't have a brain. 3. They don't make the supplemental hard drive to function as a computer to save as much memory as possible for other purposes, also to save putting in ports for the keyboard, the mouse, the monitor, and so on, not to mention so the user will eventually have to buy another Mac. I *assume* at *least* one of these guesses is *about* right. Just couldn't help looking at the numbers and wondering, but then I suppose people wonder every day why entertainers are more highly paid than the leaders of the free world. Maybe it's just part of how life *is* and you're supposed to accept and not question. I'm a little nervous about giving up the Web TV. Sure, I haven't used it in a year or two, since the last time the Mac was in the shop, but of course Murphy's Law, the day I give up on it, the next day the Mac will have a problem. (If it does, I'll go on a public computer and post from there just to let you know.) Again, life is just one big accident waiting to happen! Cori In article <1137660404.758212.7600@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, > > In article > > <1137632527.056073.324350@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Thanks for the nice answer... > I can't help observing that my Mac G4 has a capacity of only 57.26 GB. > The external Hard Drives at which I am looking START at 120 GB, most of > them at 160 GB, and go up from there. Perhaps wondering "why" is in > the end futile and useless, but I can't help wondering, how can the > "little, supplemental" thing have not only more, but way, WAY more > capacity than the "big, main" thing? A reporter that starts a job might be given a notebook. She might find she needs a bigger one. She is way way bigger than both her first "come-with-her-job" notebook and also the big fancy ones she can buy as replacement or extra. The big big notebooks are twice as big and more because some reporters get very busy and are not only much bigger than their notebooks but their needs outgrow the smaller ones they started with... they get more interested in their jobs and want to report on more and more things. > Not asking for an answer, as my tiny tiny brain would doubtless be far > too small to comprehend it and waste the time of the great minds here, > but without knowing I *suppose* > 1. My Mac G4 was built several years ago when everything had less > memory. Ah, memory. Now this is like something in the reporters head, it can be very little if she is a bad bad bad girl and drinks or smokes very naughty bad naughty yucky horrible things too much or is very very very very old. In fact, the older and smaller her memory, the bigger her notebooks need to be. We could call this "notebook memory" or "pretend memory" or "substitute memory". > 2. "If it only had a brain": So much memory is used up programming > where to put everything a Mac needs to run it only has so much space > left, that's why you need the supplemental hard drive, which has all > kinds of space as it doesn't have a brain. When our reporter was young and on the ball, she could remember so much! But even she could not remember huge detailed things for months on end, year after year. That is where her notebooks come in. > I'm a little nervous about giving up the Web TV. Sure, I haven't used > it in a year or two, since the last time the Mac was in the shop, but > of course Murphy's Law, the day I give up on it, the next day the Mac > will have a problem. (If it does, I'll go on a public computer and > post from there just to let you know.) Again, life is just one big > accident waiting to happen! I think Cori, you should also keep the ordinary TV because it is nice to watch and you will see very nice things on it and not have to worry about anything. Watch out for a movie called Superman, there is a nice reporter in it... > Cori Signaturedorayme >> In article >> <1137632527.056073.324350@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> -- >> dorayme >Thanks for the nice answer, and as for the others which are no doubt >coming, since I'm sure plenty of people will be in line to jump on me >after seeing my question, I will at least attempt to explain my >(My real question, of course, is what should I buy to make the >situation better rather than worse, but other questions arise just >trying to understand what I'm looking at.) >I can't help observing that my Mac G4 has a capacity of only 57.26 GB. >The external Hard Drives at which I am looking START at 120 GB, most of >them at 160 GB, and go up from there. Perhaps wondering "why" is in >the end futile and useless, but I can't help wondering, how can the >"little, supplemental" thing have not only more, but way, WAY more >capacity than the "big, main" thing? >Not asking for an answer, as my tiny tiny brain would doubtless be far >too small to comprehend it and waste the time of the great minds here, >but without knowing I *suppose* ... Cori. Since it appears you aren't fully technically knowledgable about the internal workings of you Mac, let me make this suggestion. Find a local experienced Mac user and have them see exactly what you have. Explainning things to the millions of us on the 'net is probably going to confuse you more. And as I recall from my G4 [which I use occaisionally] you will probable have to look at some IDs in the ROMs on your machine to determine what you can put in there. One old G4 isn't the same as another. And the as the saying goes 'the devil is in the details'. I really really do think you'll be a lot better off to have someone local [not a dealer unless you can find one you can really really trust to tell you the truth and not just sell you things] take a look and find out exactly what you have, and go from there. Bill SignatureBill Vermillion - bv @ wjv . com On 1/19/2006, Bill Vermillion managed to type: >>> In article >>> <1137632527.056073.324350@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > > Bill Let me concur *strongly* with your advice. Cori, sometimes being at the scene can be much easier than the slow feedback, unanswered questions, misinterpreted remarks, and such, that happen here on Usenet... The on-site person can sometimes see in a few seconds what never was figured out in a (currently) 37-post thread. Gino SignatureGene E. Bloch (Gino) letters617blochg3251 (replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom") > Will an external hard drive be > anything like a Mac? And she wants to do video editing? > > Will an external hard drive be > > anything like a Mac? > > And she wants to do video editing? Sure, they scoff NOW...but several years down the road when this is standard practice, I'll be HAILED as a VISIONARY! When Ray Bradbury wrote "Fahrenheit 451," nobody thought a listening device could be portable in a pocket, let alone hearable to only the listener, but people read the book, and lo and behold, the Walkman, and now, the iPod! This revelation will obviously gain me nothing in monetary recompense as I won't have a patent, but at least I'll be able to say I thought of it! Who'll be laughing *then*? Cori > Sure, they scoff NOW...but several years down the road when this is > standard practice, I'll be HAILED as a VISIONARY! When Ray Bradbury [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > recompense as I won't have a patent, but at least I'll be able to say I > thought of it! Who'll be laughing *then*? There are already smart drives like that, with an ethernet or wireless port, some kind of embedded OS, you can log in and store and retrieve files from them. I don't think that's what you need. SignatureW. Oates Teal'c: He is concealing something. O'Neil: What is it? Teal'c: I do not know, he is concealing it. > > Sure, they scoff NOW...but several years down the road when this is > > standard practice, I'll be HAILED as a VISIONARY! When Ray Bradbury [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > -- > W. Oates Oh, darn, someone already thought of it, but oh, good, I wasn't so far off in conjecturing there could be such a thing. Cori On 1/18/2006, dorayme managed to type: > In article > <1137632527.056073.324350@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > No. An external hard drive is like a reporters notebook. It is > nothing like the reporter herself. This is a very neat analogy, and I like the way you expanded it in your later post to explain further! Gino SignatureGene E. Bloch (Gino) letters617blochg3251 (replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom") > On 1/18/2006, dorayme managed to type: > > In article [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Gino Why... blush... thank you Gino! Signaturedorayme > > On 1/18/2006, dorayme managed to type: > > > In article [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > -- > dorayme I actually appreciated everything except the sarcasm (although it was kinda funny.) I already mostly understood the concept without the patronization. I ALSO *know* a Web TV will get you online but NOT perform the intricate functions of a Mac, and I NEVER meant to imply it did or ever will, before everyone starts jumping all over me about THAT! (And while you're at it, you might add that learning "Do-Re-Mi" won't write you Beethoven's Fifth symphony. And I can't really play the uillean pipes either though I sorta know what they are, but that's beside the point of what I'm trying to accomplish here.) The reason I dragged the Web TV into it at all is just my own anxiety that all this extra stuff might end up crashing the Mac, but since I ordered the high speed internet service in order to be able to download the programs I need for all this, I won't have the dialup anymore which enabled the Web TV service and then won't even be able to get online, and will end up worse off than when I started. (If I don't crash long before the Mac!) I realize that my question should have been not so much, "Will it work this way?" (if this or that is done to it) but more "WHY won't it work this way?" (if the external hard drive has so many more GB than the Mac--you'd think that would make it smarter, but nooo--) but, as I said, that would result in a lot of explanations of things which won't answer my main question which is REALLY WHAT THE HELL SHOULD I BUY TO SALVAGE THIS SITUATION before people waiting for copies of the project start thinking I've died or something? The first two pieces of equipment I bought to even get me this far HAD to be bought not in person but through a catalog phone order, because local stores don't carry such equipment--I checked every store in driving distance which might sell anything like it and they had nothing that would help me. I feel as if I have to go ahead with ordering the next thing the same way, in this case through MacMall as they've always been satisfactory in the past, but even with a general description, you see how many choices turned up in JUST THE CATALOG, and the website sells things not in the catalog, and the sales rep on the phone sold me one thing not even on the website! Now I have a *little* clearer idea of what to tell them I'm after, to end up getting something which will prove of use...I *think*.... Cori In article <1137721552.359749.150230@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>, > > > >> Will an external hard drive be > > > >> anything like a Mac [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > kinda funny.) I already mostly understood the concept without the > patronization. Just take it in good humour, pulling your chain a bit, I know, quite disgracefully! But you might forgive me? I must say you had a funny way of showing understanding... Signaturedorayme On 1/19/2006, cmashieldscapting@hotmail.com managed to type: >>> On 1/18/2006, dorayme managed to type: >>>> In article [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > I actually appreciated everything except the sarcasm (although it was > kinda funny.) I was sarcastic, but Dorayme wasn't. His analogy is very appropriate; unfortunately you don't seem to understand it. > I already mostly understood the concept without the > patronization. I don't think you understood it...see below. > I ALSO *know* a Web TV will get you online but NOT > perform the intricate functions of a Mac, and I NEVER meant to imply it [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the uillean pipes either though I sorta know what they are, but that's > beside the point of what I'm trying to accomplish here.) The uillean pipe thing *was* a bit sarcastic. They are Irish bagpipes with several pipes, played with a pump instead of the player's breathing, and besides that, they have keys and such (like flutes or clarinets). I have read that it takes a person 21 years to learn to play them :-) That was my sarcasm: take up something simple like the uillean pipes. > The reason I > dragged the Web TV into it at all is just my own anxiety that all this [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > up worse off than when I started. (If I don't crash long before the > Mac!) If an external drive crashes your Mac, your Mac has other problems. That is an informational remark. > I realize that my question should have been not so much, "Will it work > this way?" (if this or that is done to it) but more "WHY won't it work > this way?" (if the external hard drive has so many more GB than the > Mac--you'd think that would make it smarter, but nooo--) And here is part of why I don't think you understand Dorayme's reporter + notebook analogy or the whole problem you're dealing with. Adding external storage won't make a computer smarter any more than buying more notebooks will make a reporter smarter. I don't see any sign that you understand that. This is not sarcasm, it is merely expressing what I perceive. HTH, Gino <SNIP> > Cori SignatureGene E. Bloch (Gino) letters617blochg3251 (replace the numbers by "at" and "dotcom") |
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