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Mac Forum / Country Specific / UK Mac Group / May 2008Comparing the contents of two discs?
Go on, how do I do it? I'm sure there must be some straightforward free/shareware software around to `just give me a straightforward list of what's different on each disc'. But can I find any? Nope. Anyone got any hints or clues? (it's like this: I've got a HDD and a disc image taken from it some time ago - I want to check the differences between the two. Just don't ask what I've been playing at, okay? It'd take a long, tedious, pointless, involved explanation which'd be unhelpful and probably make me seem madder than usual) Rowland.  SignatureRemove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking In article <1ih8wxw.x68vn51jpu7gyN%real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet>, Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet> wrote: > Go on, how do I do it? > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > involved explanation which'd be unhelpful and probably make me seem > madder than usual) Depends on what kind of differences. File name compare? Judicious use of ls and spdiff File content compare? md5 A bit of each? scary variations of rsync with --compare switches (rather you than me on that one) A unix bit god will be along in a minute. ... SignatureTo de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 > In article > <1ih8wxw.x68vn51jpu7gyN%real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet>, Rowland [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > A unix bit god will be along in a minute. (S)he's coming along in a minute, but in the meantime... In Terminal, a straight-forward: diff -q dir1 dir2 Will tell you which files exist only in dir1 or dir2 and also which files differ (by content), plus all the subdirs as well. It'll take a long time on a whole a partition and is pretty verbose, but will give you the info you want (I think). > >> (it's like this: I've got a HDD and a disc image taken from it some time > >> ago - I want to check the differences between the two. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > scary variations of rsync with --compare switches > > (rather you than me on that one) A basic `Have these two directory trees got contents that are the same as far as filename and file sizes go, also directory names and contents by name' (IYSWIM) would be fine by me. > > A unix bit god will be along in a minute. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > long time on a whole a partition and is pretty verbose, but will give > you the info you want (I think). Just what I needed. :-) I've just thrown: diff -q /Volumes/Methedrine/ /Volumes/Methedrine\ 1/ > ~/Methedrine.diff at beastie, which looks alarming[1], and caused two external disc boxes to start thrashing away. Since the beastie in question is the 1GHz G4 iLamp with its single CPU 'cos the 4G5 is boxed up ready to be collected for repair, it's all got a bit sluggish. And now it's finished - all in less than the time it took me to type the above! Coo. And I've seen the trick the OS plays to permit me to have two discs of the same name mounted (drag'n'drop got me the paths to the volumes I wanted to compare). You know what? The output's dead easy to deal with. No significant differences is the answer - stripping out the lines telling me of common directories, what I'm left with is: Files /Volumes/Methedrine/.DS_Store and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/.DS_Store differ Only in /Volumes/Methedrine/: Desktop (Mac OS 9) Files /Volumes/Methedrine/Desktop DB and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/Desktop DB differ Only in /Volumes/Methedrine/: TheVolumeSettingsFolder Only in /Volumes/Methedrine/: automount Only in /Volumes/Methedrine/: mach Only in /Volumes/Methedrine/: mach.sym So it seems I've got a disc drive I can use for something else now. Thanks to all for your suggestions. Rowland. [1] I've always liked whimsical disc names. I decided that naming the 2G4 `Jota' (fast gypsy dance in `triple time' (3/4), or fast 3 cylinder Italian motorcycle) with an internal disc (fast when new) called Methedrine might have been *why* it died - so the replacement Mac got called Hattie (as in Jacques - solid and reliable looking, yes?) with discs called Herdwick (as in the sheep - also robust) and Avebury ('cos the henge has been there a *very* long time). Unfortunately, while the 2G4 worked until it died, the 4G5 has been sent back for repairs once already and needs to go again. Seems that superstition has failed to work once more. SignatureRemove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking > > In article > > <1ih8wxw.x68vn51jpu7gyN%real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet>, Rowland [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > long time on a whole a partition and is pretty verbose, but will give > you the info you want (I think). Cool. ...But my apropos isn't. Well I said "apropos differences" and it neglected diff but gave me sdiff I have a love hate relationship with unix doco. ....err I have a love hate relationship with unix services too diff was hopeless at spotting a backup and current aperture vault were different. I got a complacent list of common subdirectories and that was it. Where is the diff switch to let me burrow down the directory tree inside a library? ls -lR proves that the whole directory tree inside an Aperture vault is visible to the unix-ness, yet diff does not appear to look. I really really hate it. It promises so much, yet fails to deliver in a way you can trust. SignatureTo de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 Elliott Roper <nospam@yrl.co.uk>: [...] > ...But my apropos isn't. > Well I said "apropos differences" and it neglected diff but gave me > sdiff > > I have a love hate relationship with unix doco. apropos (or man -k) only searches the short descriptions of man pages. The short description of diff is: compare files line by line And sdiff: side-by-side merge of file differences So clearly `apropos differences' would, and should, list the man page for `sdiff' but not for `diff'. There is also `man -K' (*not* `man -k') which searches man pages in their entirety, not just descriptions in the whatis database, but this is much, much slower. b. Signature<bas@bas.me.uk> <URL:http://bas.me.uk/> `The rapidity that the motion that the wing that the hummingbird has has has is remarkable.' -- Steven Pinker, _The Language Instinct_ > There is also `man -K' (*not* `man -k') which searches man pages in their > entirety, not just descriptions in the whatis database, but this is much, > much slower. It'd be a nice hack to make man -k and -K use Spotlight. Cheers, Chris > > There is also `man -K' (*not* `man -k') which searches man pages in their > > entirety, not just descriptions in the whatis database, but this is much, > > much slower. > > It'd be a nice hack to make man -k and -K use Spotlight. It would. Thanks to both of you. I did read the diff man more carefully and found the -r ..then it did the job I wanted it to. Coming back to the file compare again, is there a way to to discover duplicate files regardless of their position in a directory tree or even regardless of their name? I looked a bit at rsync, which seems to keep a database of hashes of each file, which is some way there. Is there something which makes a listing of files by MD5 hash, which could be sorted to discover duplicates? It looks like a relatively simple Python project for a newbie if there is not one already. (Nobody is saying it won't take forever to compute the hash of every file on a machine) SignatureTo de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 > > In article > > <1ih8wxw.x68vn51jpu7gyN%real-address-in-...@flur.bltigibbet>, Rowland [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > long time on a whole a partition and is pretty verbose, but will give > you the info you want (I think).- Hide quoted text - You're working too hard: rsync -avn src dest will give you a list of new and changed files on src WRT dest. >> In Terminal, a straight-forward: >> diff -q dir1 dir2 [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > will give you a list of new and changed files on src WRT dest. So it will. I'm not as familiar with rsync. Would it be any faster than diff? > So it will. I'm not as familiar with rsync. Would it be any faster than > diff? Lots. I use it for backup of user documents and it's impressively fast whether it is used as a backup or to perform a "dry-run" to see what differences exist between source and destination. > > So it will. I'm not as familiar with rsync. Would it be any faster than > > diff? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > it is used as a backup or to perform a "dry-run" to see what differences > exist between source and destination. I have been trying to make that work as a result of this rather interesting thread, and I'm buggered if I can see how get it to provide anything useful. I give it two directories of mostly identical files and it comes up with no matches. Even though the files have the same names and the same create dates and the same MD5 hashes. I tried RsyncX, and it kind-of syncs OK, but its script generation is completely bobbins. That seems to be because its installation lies about replacing the geriatric version 2.6.3 that does not understand HFS+ volumes. The rsync.samba.org site thinks 3.0.2 is a current release number and they should know. It has a zillion features that look like they would cook in OS X. Can somebody point me at a comprehensible recipe for making a version of rsync that actually works? Perhaps with an excuse for why Mac OS X ships with a non HFS+ compatible version from September 2004? Why oh why is there so much goat sacrifice required to make anything at all work on the command line? Why oh why couldn't Apple have made a sexy GUI on top of VMS instead of this rat's nest? SignatureTo de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 > I have been trying to make that work as a result of this rather > interesting thread, and I'm buggered if I can see how get it to provide > anything useful. I give it two directories of mostly identical files > and it comes up with no matches. Even though the files have the same > names and the same create dates and the same MD5 hashes. I suspect that you are omitting the trailing slashes from the directory names. rsync -avn /opt/ /opt2 will result in a match if the contents of opt and opt2 are identical, i.e. nothing will be identified as "different". This is because you are declaring that you wish to check the contents of the directory opt with the contents of the directory opt2. rsync -avn /opt /opt2 will result in a list of every file in /opt even if opt and opt2 are identical. This is because rsync will look to synchronise a folder named "opt" inside opt2 and will not find it. > Why oh why couldn't Apple have made a sexy GUI on top of VMS instead of > this rat's nest? I'd find that less satisfactory. VMS is a complete pile of arse. The problem is mostly one of what you are used to, I suspect. If you spend a little time learning the basics then it won't be quite as frustrating. Neither VMS nor UN*X are intuitive. > > I have been trying to make that work as a result of this rather > > interesting thread, and I'm buggered if I can see how get it to provide [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > rsync -avn /opt /opt2 Where are those slashes in the synopsis revealed by man rsync? My first attempt was: EPro:bin elliott$ rsync -avvn /Users/elliott/Desktop/testrs2 /Users/elliott/Desktop/testrs1 ..and it listed every file in testrs2 even though the two directories contain the same files in every respect. I stuck in your slashes like this EPro:bin elliott$ rsync -avvn //Users/elliott/Desktop/testrs2 //Users/elliott/Desktop/testrs1 (ignore the wrap in both cases) .. and I get the same result e.g. "no matches" > will result in a list of every file in /opt even if opt and opt2 are > identical. This is because rsync will look to synchronise a folder named [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > spend a little time learning the basics then it won't be quite as > frustrating. Neither VMS nor UN*X are intuitive. I agree that unix is not intuitive. VMS at least has a usable help system. SignatureTo de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 > > > I have been trying to make that work as a result of this rather > > > interesting thread, and I'm buggered if I can see how get it to provide [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > I agree that unix is not intuitive. > VMS at least has a usable help system. And useable donkey-mentation. > I stuck in your slashes like this > EPro:bin elliott$ rsync -avvn //Users/elliott/Desktop/testrs2 > //Users/elliott/Desktop/testrs1 You put the slashes are in the wrong place. rsync -avvn /Users/elliott/Desktop/testrs2/ /Users/elliott/Desktop/testrs1 Try that. BTW, do you really mean you want to compare testrs2 to testrs1 and not the other way round? > I agree that unix is not intuitive. Neither is VMS. > VMS at least has a usable help system. You mean you're used to VMS, it's a pile of poo if one isn't used to it. > > I stuck in your slashes like this > > EPro:bin elliott$ rsync -avvn //Users/elliott/Desktop/testrs2 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Try that. Thanks. It worked more or less as expected. It listed the files in the source that were not in the destination. However, I'm surprised that the report said among other things total: matches=0 when there were 40 odd files common to both. > BTW, do you really mean you want to compare testrs2 to testrs1 and not > the other way round? Yep. I had been playing about trying to bounce missing files back and forth. > > I agree that unix is not intuitive. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > You mean you're used to VMS, it's a pile of poo if one isn't used to it. Me? Heavens no! I'm *always* unbiased and logical. I've only used VMS for the last 30 years, so I'm not used to it yet. I've banged against unix off and on (mostly off) for nearly as long, but with nothing like the same number of man-hours. Nothing like! I'm slowly getting there, but all it takes is a few seconds of vi and I'm a gibbering wreck pp..pleading for my teco back. (I'll readily admit that VMS's TPU/EVE is worse than vi. It is worse than *anything*. An over engineered inconsistent pile I hate with a passion) I'm building up unix immunity with gently increasing doses of emacs and help from you bit gods. Thanks for you help on rsync. I think if I can crack that, I'm ready for our unix overlords. Now where did I put that pile of slash characters? SignatureTo de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 On 21/05/2008 19:23, in article 210520081923325543%nospam@yrl.co.uk, > Can somebody point me at a comprehensible recipe for making a version > of rsync that actually works? Perhaps with an excuse for why Mac OS X > ships with a non HFS+ compatible version from September 2004? No excuse forthcoming, I'm afraid, but Carbon Copy Cloner now use rsync (3.0.x) under the hood. SignatureRegards, Steve "...which means he created the heaven and the earth... in the DARK! How good is that?" > On 21/05/2008 19:23, in article 210520081923325543%nospam@yrl.co.uk, > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > No excuse forthcoming, I'm afraid, but Carbon Copy Cloner now use rsync > (3.0.x) under the hood. And also, although the version of rsync that ships with MacOSX is 2.6.3 from way back when, it does support(*) extended attributes, it's just a different argument (E) from version 3.whatever... It's always worth looking at <http://www.bombich.com/mactips/image.html>, which incantations I've found invaluable over the years. Kind regards, Dave (*) qualification of the support is that incremental backups always flag resource fork as modified, so all files with resource forks get copied each time... > > On 21/05/2008 19:23, in article 210520081923325543%nospam@yrl.co.uk, > > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > resource fork as modified, so all files with resource forks get copied > each time... Thanks David. Saved and bookmarked! SignatureTo de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 > (*) qualification of the support is that incremental backups always flag > resource fork as modified, so all files with resource forks get copied > each time... There is a patch available, but it doesn't fix this particular problem. http://www.lartmaker.nl/rsync/ > Can somebody point me at a comprehensible recipe for making a version > of rsync that actually works? Perhaps with an excuse for why Mac OS X > ships with a non HFS+ compatible version from September 2004? I went through all that a couple of years ago, when I was casting about for backup software. Rsync seemed the obvious choice, but I got so pissed off trying to reconcile the many opinions about which version had which bugs, that I bought SuperDuper instead. Nothing like as powerful, of course, but it did allow me to get on with my life. SignatureTimH pull tooth to reply by email > I went through all that a couple of years ago, when I was casting about > for backup software. Rsync seemed the obvious choice, but I got so [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Nothing like as powerful, of course, but it did allow me to get on with > my life. I think SD uses rsync to do the real work (or rather a perl script called psync that sits on top of rsync). Anyway, I thought the point of the exercise was to get a listing of changed files rather than doing the backup itself. For the latter, I'd just use SD or CCC. > > I went through all that a couple of years ago, when I was casting about > > for backup software. Rsync seemed the obvious choice, but I got so [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > of the exercise was to get a listing of changed files rather than > doing the backup itself. For the latter, I'd just use SD or CCC. Yes, I was just commenting on the headaches involved (for people like me, anyway) in setting up a reliable rsync installation on OS X. Though I suppose the sorts of bugs I was talking about aren't really an issue in this case. SignatureTimH pull tooth to reply by email [snip] > Why oh why couldn't Apple have made a sexy GUI on top of VMS instead of > this rat's nest? Didn't MS try that first - sort of - with WinNT? Rowland. SignatureRemove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking > [snip] > > > Why oh why couldn't Apple have made a sexy GUI on top of VMS instead of > > this rat's nest? > > Didn't MS try that first - sort of - with WinNT? Short answer: no. They shared Dave Cutler and that's about it. <http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/Windows-NT_is_VMS_re-implemented. html> (warning: Comic Sans used) Jim Signature'Cloverfield' in nine words: "What is it?!" "We're gonna die!" BOOM! Roll credits. http://www.ursaminorbeta.co.uk http://twitter.com/greyareauk > <http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/Windows-NT_is_VMS_re-implemented. > html> Neil Rieck is very well respected in the VMS community, but that web link is a very small part of the story. There are many similarities between VMS and NT, but there are just as many differences in philosophy. Much of what is common was what was swimming in the minds of OS writers everywhere at the time. NT has no logical names, no clustering, no event flags, no RMS, a hopeless file system, no proper separation of user privilege classes and a god-awful registry. Calling NT a development of VMS is a travesty. On top of that, NT is thread scheduled. VMS did not get thread scheduling for many years after NT. Cutler did take 30 of his Prism team with him to Microsoft. Neither he nor they were VMS OS developers at the time. Many years elapsed between Cutler cutting his ties with VMS and joining Microsoft (basically all he did in VMS was port some of his I/O structure from RSX to VMS version 1. He left the VMS team when V1 went final in 1977 or so) Later he led development in Hardware (MicroVAX I) and a real time operating system (VAXeln) and then more hardware (Prism). NT owes as much to VAXeln as it does to VMS. Especially the thread scheduling system. Unsurprisingly, Cutler's greatest influence on NT was the I/O system. Especially the separation of I/O from the rest of the kernel and userland. Although MS ripped most of that out for NT4 so that olde stylee games would execute smartly. A very strong rumour says that Cutler spat his dummy out and spent a year away going motor racing. As NT development ramped up, while DEC was dying, a lot of excellent VMS OS developers moved to Microsoft. By then, the design of NT was fixed to the point that more recent VMS stuff had little chance of taking hold, although having a lot of very experienced proper OS developers surely did it no harm. Many of those guys were/are my 'heroes', as is Cutler. I learned more about OS design by reading Dave's source code of RSX11-M than I have from anywhere else. And I have nicked tons of his ideas over the years. All in all, there is only a small grain of truth in the NT is VMS myth. By the way, NT was not originally 'New Technology'. That is a backronym. It originally stood for N Ten - an Intel Processor that never saw the light of day that once was the 'not IA32' target for the new MS operating system. SignatureTo de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 [snip] > Many of those guys were/are my 'heroes', as is Cutler. I learned more > about OS design by reading Dave's source code of RSX11-M than I have > from anywhere else. And I have nicked tons of his ideas over the years. > > All in all, there is only a small grain of truth in the NT is VMS myth. I didn't say that it was, exactly - I'd heard that NT was built with ideas from the VMS camp, hence the `sort of' in my post on the topic. > By the way, NT was not originally 'New Technology'. That is a > backronym. It originally stood for N Ten - an Intel Processor that > never saw the light of day that once was the 'not IA32' target for the > new MS operating system. Ah. Rowland. SignatureRemove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking > They shared Dave Cutler and that's about it. > > <http://www3.sympatico.ca/n.rieck/docs/Windows-NT_is_VMS_re-implemented. > html> (warning: Comic Sans used) From that page: "Read Dave Cutler's forward to the book "Inside Microsoft NT" (bottom of this page)" One of the regrettable effects of the internet, and computers generally, is that people repeatedly experience reading grammatical and spelling errors displayed in nice authoritative type. At least in this instance, the Comic Sans presentation should negate any authority the words might otherwise carry. If you read "your all a bunch of loosers" scrawled in barely intelligible handwriting, I'm sure your brain attaches very little authority to the grammar and spelling used therein, but when it's in Times or Helvetica, or any font that suggests the words have been proofread or at least written by someone vaguely literate, then the brain adds that instance to the corpus and sooner or later you'll see a book published with "Forward by <famous person>". This will have slipped past proofreaders, editors, typesetters and any number of people who should know better. Sigh. SignaturePd proof-reader n. A malefactor who atones for making your writing nonsense by permitting the compositor to make it unintelligible. > This will have slipped past proofreaders, editors, typesetters and any > number of people who should know better. And it's so bloody easy. For me, the great elephant trap was lower screen captions on TV. They would be written by me, transcribed to an Aston machine by an operator, who would also be looking out for the spelling, then inserted to the final tape at the end of the VT session, when I would see them again, along with my film editor and the VT editor; we would all read the caption out aloud, to check the sense and the timing in situ. And after all that, I damn nearly transmitted 'Dr Mick Kelly, Univeristy of East Anglia'. I had to go in on Sunday morning and beg some time in VT to make the change... A few hours later, on 'Horizon', it (the correct version thank Ghodd) was seen by over a MILLYUN people. SignaturePeter > I damn nearly transmitted 'Dr Mick Kelly, Univeristy > of East Anglia' That would have been a disaster, his name is Rick. > > I damn nearly transmitted 'Dr Mick Kelly, Univeristy > > of East Anglia' > > That would have been a disaster, his name is Rick. But who'd have known? Except for his mum, and anyway she *knows* it's Mick. But 'Univeristy' is one of those typos that small boys write in about for years and years... SignaturePeter >> This will have slipped past proofreaders, editors, typesetters and any >> number of people who should know better. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > VT to make the change... A few hours later, on 'Horizon', it (the > correct version thank Ghodd) was seen by over a MILLYUN people. I missed a turning a few weeks ago because I was so aghast at the typography (the letter p was particularly bad) on a hospital sign. Cheers, Chris [snip] > I missed a turning a few weeks ago because I was so aghast at the > typography (the letter p was particularly bad) on a hospital sign. Dodgy typography on signs doesn't wind me up too much. It's the illiterate signs with faulty spelling and painfully mangled grammar that give me an urge to come back with explosives. Rowland. SignatureRemove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > illiterate signs with faulty spelling and painfully mangled grammar that > give me an urge to come back with explosives. I've noticed our local supermarket has taken down the "five items or less" signs and replaced them with "up to five items". -z- Signature"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." - Charles Darwin >> [snip] >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I've noticed our local supermarket has taken down the "five items or > less" signs and replaced them with "up to five items". Must be a dodgy supermarket if it said "5 items or less" as any fule kno it's "5 items or fewer"... Stew >> I've noticed our local supermarket has taken down the "five items or >> less" signs and replaced them with "up to five items". > > Must be a dodgy supermarket if it said "5 items or less" as any fule kno > it's "5 items or fewer"... Which is exactly what you were trying to say. Ignore me... Stew > >> I've noticed our local supermarket has taken down the "five items or > >> less" signs and replaced them with "up to five items". [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Which is exactly what you were trying to say. Ignore me... Heh ;) -z- Signature"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge." - Charles Darwin >>>> I've noticed our local supermarket has taken down the "five items or >>>> less" signs and replaced them with "up to five items". >>> >>> Must be a dodgy supermarket if it said "5 items or less" as any fule kno >>> it's "5 items or fewer"... In Waitrose the equivalent sign has always said "5 items or fewer". Ian. -- > In Waitrose the equivalent sign has always said "5 items or fewer". But you'd expect that. Waitrose goes for quality. SignaturePeter On Sat, 24 May 2008 08:58:33 +0100, Peter Ceresole wrote >> In Waitrose the equivalent sign has always said "5 items or fewer". > > But you'd expect that. Waitrose goes for quality. Someone famous (or infamous) was once quoted as saying that they supported the opening of a controversial new Tesco in their town as it would keep the riff-raff out of Waitrose :-) > Someone famous (or infamous) was once quoted as saying that they supported > the opening of a controversial new Tesco in their town as it would keep the > riff-raff out of Waitrose :-) Not a joke; just the truth. SignaturePeter > > Someone famous (or infamous) was once quoted as saying that they supported > > the opening of a controversial new Tesco in their town as it would keep the > > riff-raff out of Waitrose :-) > > Not a joke; just the truth. Of course it's a joke. Waitrose is /crap/. But: wasn't that Francis Wheen on the Newsquiz? Or maybe Alan Coren (RIP)? One of t'other, ISTR. And Sainsbury's, not Tesco. [Tesco is for riff-raff in any case - one step up from Asda on the social ladder, but much more unpleasant customers and staff on the whole (that might just be Birkenhead vs. Bebington, though - that is, my local Tesco is nearer Liverpool, while Asda is nearer Chester). The Adsa crowd are indeed the great unwashed as becomes distressingly obvious to my nose at least at this time of year, but the Tesco crowd are /scum/.] Rowland. SignatureRemove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking > On Sat, 24 May 2008 08:58:33 +0100, Peter Ceresole wrote >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > the opening of a controversial new Tesco in their town as it would keep the > riff-raff out of Waitrose :-) I'm sure I've heard Alan Coren say something similar on the News Quiz about Sainburys rather than Tesco. Stewart On Mon, 26 May 2008 09:06:56 +0100, Stewart Smith wrote >>> But you'd expect that. Waitrose goes for quality. >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I'm sure I've heard Alan Coren say something similar on the News Quiz > about Sainburys rather than Tesco. I suspect that's what I was thinking of, thanks > Waitrose goes for quality. Largely a fallacy. Waitrose sells much the same tat as the plebermarkets at slightly higher prices. In the categories of food that I know extremely well, pasta, olive oil, salumi, cheese and pestati, Waitrose offerings are the stuff that gets sold at motorway service stations in Italy. There's next to nothing that could be counted as "quality". If the ranges that I know well are poorly represented, I consider it evidence that the rest of the stock is also selected on the same criteria. A bit like BBC News. Whenever they have an article in my area of expertise it is obvious that some journalist has failed to understand the story. Hence one must assume that the rest of their output is similarly subject to a journalist's failure to understand the subject matter. On Sat, 24 May 2008 13:12:36 +0100, Steve Firth wrote >> Waitrose goes for quality. > > Largely a fallacy. Waitrose sells much the same tat as the plebermarkets > at slightly higher prices. But, as with trains and planes, it's worth paying the extra merely to avoid the paups > > Waitrose goes for quality. > > Largely a fallacy. Nonsense. We shop there, and elsewhere. Obviously the branded stuff in bottles or packages (the kind of thing you mentioned) is the same as elsewhere. But in general, for things like meat and vegetables, their stuff is better. SignaturePeter > > > Waitrose goes for quality. > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > packages (the kind of thing you mentioned) is the same as elsewhere. But > in general, for things like meat and vegetables, their stuff is better. I've shopped in Waitrose and I must say that I do not find that to be the case. And I am fussy about the quality of my food - well, I did grow up eating the freshest possible fruit+veg in season, and I know that because I was often the one who picked it minutes before it was eaten. Baby bro wsan't expected to go out in the dark and wet. I bloody well was and he wasn't that much of a baby, the smug, smirking sod. When you're used to breakfasting on strawberries that haven't been off the plant for more than five minutes, you don't have much time for commercial strawberries (but I did once, in Galway, meet commercial strawberries that were as good - a good variety, picked locally that afternoon. I wanted to emigrate on the spot, they were that good) All supermarket meat and veg is sub-standard these days - and I can't say that I'm any more impressed with Waitrose than I am with what they now stock in Asda (Asda fresh fruit+veg used to be crappier than crap, but it's got better since Walmart took over. It's possible to buy edible meat in Asda too). There is very little supermarket fresh stuff that's good quality these days as far as I can tell - and the good stuff is the same in all the shops, no difference that I can tell. They all stock inedible courgettes, and they all stock okay onions. Etc. The only way out is farmers' markets or growing it yourself or farm shops (etc). Unless you happen to live near New Covent Garden Market or similar, that is. Rowland. SignatureRemove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking > > In Waitrose the equivalent sign has always said "5 items or fewer". > > But you'd expect that. Waitrose goes for quality. No, it goes for an aura of quality so it can rip off customers with a lack of discernment. Rowland. SignatureRemove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking [snip] > Must be a dodgy supermarket if it said "5 items or less" as any fule kno > it's "5 items or fewer"... Yeah, but even M&S got that one wrong until it heard the screams from its customers. Rowland. SignatureRemove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking > > This will have slipped past proofreaders, editors, typesetters and any > > number of people who should know better. > > And it's so bloody easy. Run the spelling checker (if the technology permits), and then if you're really wanting the best check possible, proof read for spelling mistakes and the like in reverse. That sort of thing is best left to sub-editors, but I never had one, let alone a room full. Only did it a few times. Mindless tedium and very slow especially when you know that you've got another 2000 words to write that day... > For me, the great elephant trap was lower screen captions on TV. They > would be written by me, transcribed to an Aston machine by an operator, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > VT to make the change... A few hours later, on 'Horizon', it (the > correct version thank Ghodd) was seen by over a MILLYUN people. I met a lot of people in publishing, on the editorial side, who couldn't see any serious problem in letting the occasional howler like that through. Okay, none of them had a Horizon-sized audience, or the BBC name attached to their work, but still. Arts graduates, almost all of them. One of them couldn't even understand the problem of comparing the sizes of the USA and USSR using Mercator projections. I /always/ ran the spelling checker, and any time I came across anyone at a pre-press house who preferred to re-type from the printed version rather than cut and paste from the text file on disc, he got a flea in his ear from me about reliability and accuracy. Rowland. SignatureRemove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking > Even though the files have the same > names and the same create dates and the same MD5 hashes. Then the files are the same, and nothing needs to be copied. The version of rsync that comes with 10.4.x should work for you. I'd be wary of anything you find on the net: the changes to support HFS will have been made by Apple, and I don't know if these changes have been integrated into the main source tree. In article <757037d6-98cb-4691-add5-ac041c65df47@m3g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>, Sak Wathanasin <sw@nan.co.uk> wrote: > > Even though the files have the same > > names and the same create dates and the same MD5 hashes. > > Then the files are the same, and nothing needs to be copied. Yebut yebut. Whay did it say "matches=0"? there were about 40 matching files > The version of rsync that comes with 10.4.x should work for you. I'd > be wary of anything you find on the net: the changes to support HFS > will have been made by Apple, and I don't know if these changes have > been integrated into the main source tree. If you read the rsyncX folks' doco it would seem otherwise. Their scripts inject some switches for hfs that the OS X version does not recognise. I binned rsyncX because of that. So it is just a rhetorical question. But how can you tell whether your resource fork stuff will make it across from looking at rsync's doco as distributed by Apple. (I will run an experiment shortly, so that too is a rhetorical question) A proper operating system would have complete and readable doco. when rsync starts off with "it does what rcp does only better" and trails off without further overview, I do get to feel a little lost, a little too early. SignatureTo de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 > Yebut yebut. Whay did it say "matches=0"? > there were about 40 matching files Maybe it meant it had 0 files to copy to make "dest" the same as "src". > If you read the rsyncX folks' doco it would seem otherwise. Dunno - rsyncX has never darkened my disk. > But how can you tell whether your resource fork stuff will make it > across from looking at rsync's doco as distributed by Apple. (I will > run an experiment shortly, so that too is a rhetorical question) ls -l xxx/rsrc > A proper operating system would have complete and readable doco. > when rsync starts off with "it does what rcp does only better" and > trails off without further overview, I do get to feel a little lost, a > little too early. rsync is user-contributed software; you shoud take it up with rsync's author. In article <817e9d4f-bf2c-4aac-9cad-04411d26afc2@8g2000hse.googlegroups.com>, Sak Wathanasin <sw@nan.co.uk> wrote: > > Yebut yebut. Whay did it say "matches=0"? > > there were about 40 matching files > > Maybe it meant it had 0 files to copy to make "dest" the same as > "src". maybe. Unclear is the operative word. I will try harder. <snip> > > A proper operating system would have complete and readable doco. > > when rsync starts off with "it does what rcp does only better" and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > rsync is user-contributed software; you shoud take it up with rsync's > author. Tridge right? Last time I saw him he was making mincemeat of a swarm of Microsoft's $$$$$ lawyers in the Court of First Instance in Luxembourg. I wouldn't be game till I was *really* sure of my facts. ;-) SignatureTo de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 [snip] > A proper operating system would have complete and readable doco. That makes CP/M more of a proper OS than most modern OSes, if you ask me. > when rsync starts off with "it does what rcp does only better" and > trails off without further overview, I do get to feel a little lost, a > little too early. Unix documentation is meant to exclude those who are not already Unix experts. That attitude seems to have infected Mac-land. So we have a situation where documentation is unneccessary since the user can allegedly intuit usage from the UI, and any documentation that is supplied is meant to be inaccessible to anyone who actually needs to read it. I've noticed recently that most software documentation no longer explains properly what the software is meant to do. You get instructions on how to operate each control - which is pointless, since that's almost always obvious from the UI. What you don't get is an explanation of what the controls do and how to use them intelligently. I've looked at a lot of software in recent years that I've binned because I simply couldn't work out what the hell it was *for*. And once upon a time, you could always find that out from a short description in the brochure (or whatever). Rowland. SignatureRemove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking In article <1ihcq2e.1knhv5bol5vjpN%real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet>, Rowland McDonnell <real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet> wrote: > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > upon a time, you could always find that out from a short description in > the brochure (or whatever). In a radical departure from normal operating procedure Rowland, I don't have an argument with any of that. ;-) SignatureTo de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$ PGP Fingerprint: 1A96 3CF7 637F 896B C810 E199 7E5C A9E4 8E59 E248 > In a radical departure from normal operating procedure Rowland, I don't > have an argument with any of that. ;-) I just wish it were true. However if one gets past the first paragraph the rsync man page gives a full, concise and clear English explanation of what rsync does. > > In a radical departure from normal operating procedure Rowland, I don't > > have an argument with any of that. ;-) > > I just wish it were true. However if one gets past the first paragraph > the rsync man page gives a full, concise and clear English explanation > of what rsync does. `Concise' includes the concept `full' - you're repeating yourself. I've never met a Unix man page that was anything other than impossible to understand in full due to it missing out vital information in the search for conciseness. The rsync man page I've just looked at certainly does not provide a *full* explanation of what it does, since it refers the reader to another information source. I'll admit that the rsync man page is better than most - it's a workable reference for a Unix expert, certainly. But you've got to know all the background to the stuff that rsync works with to be able to use that reference properly intelligently. So my point still stands and I really shouldn't ever reply to that Firth creature, should I? Rowland. SignatureRemove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking > `Concise' includes the concept `full' No it doesn't, it includes comorehensive, but not full. > - you're repeating yourself. And you're a tedious prick. In article <1ihd5kr.umuc7b1vwg4ywN%real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet>, > > > In a radical departure from normal operating procedure Rowland, I don't > > > have an argument with any of that. ;-) [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > reference properly intelligently. So my point still stands and I really > shouldn't ever reply to that Firth creature, should I? I'll go for gold here... For what we've being trying to do here, the 'easy' incantation with rsync includes the option '-a'. This implies, inter alia, the option '-D'. Option '-D' says "preserve devices". Anyone have the first idea what these devices that we might be preserving are? Here's hoping, Dave > I'll go for gold here... > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Here's hoping, If you look further down the man page you should see: > -D, --devices > This option causes rsync to transfer character and block device information to the remote system to recreate these devices. This option is only > available to the super-user. Paul > > I'll go for gold here... > > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > devices. This option is only > > available to the super-user. Precisely, and I can't for the life of me think of any character device or block device that I would want to preserve in my backup, as I thought these were named pipes or the sort of beasts that live in /dev and all that sort of stuff? After all, it could take a wee while to backup /dev/random... > Precisely, and I can't for the life of me think of any character device > or block device that I would want to preserve in my backup, as I thought > these were named pipes or the sort of beasts that live in /dev and all > that sort of stuff? > > After all, it could take a wee while to backup /dev/random... I would hope it just attempts to preserve the device entry, not the contents of the device :-) Cheers, Chris > > Precisely, and I can't for the life of me think of any character device > > or block device that I would want to preserve in my backup, as I thought [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I would hope it just attempts to preserve the device entry, not the > contents of the device :-) Yes, but can you think of any device entries that I would need to preserve? So far as I understand it, nothing in /dev, and I wouldn't think of anything anywhere else, so why is the option there in rsync? Kind regards, Dave > Yes, but can you think of any device entries that I would need to > preserve? > > So far as I understand it, nothing in /dev, and I wouldn't think of > anything anywhere else, so why is the option there in rsync? Most entries under /dev are created dynamically by OS X as far as I know, so this option is more or less useless for OS X. On older Unix-like systems though, it makes more sense - don't forget rsync is for them too. Cheers, Chris > In article <69nialF32uo0...@mid.individual.net>, > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > these were named pipes or the sort of beasts that live in /dev and all > that sort of stuff? Yup; you'd only want to do that if you were trying to clone the root disk (partition). > After all, it could take a wee while to backup /dev/random... It doesn't attempt to copy the contents, it sends the info needed to re-create the device on the target disk. > > In article > > <1ih8wxw.x68vn51jpu7gyN%real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet>, Rowland [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > long time on a whole a partition and is pretty verbose, but will give > you the info you want (I think). It failed to perform as advertised. Which is a shame, because I've trusted it up until now and have thrown away a lot of data that it now turns out might not have been a mere duplicate of something else. I've just tried diff on a pair of disc images that are similar but not identical. It failed to tell me that one of them had a directory /Applications/Utilities/ATI Utilities which is entirely not there on the other[1]. Any suggestions on what might work? Rowland. [1] This is what I got in response to: diff -q /Volumes/Methedrine/ /Volumes/Methedrine\ 1/ > ~/methedrineImages.diff The claim `Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/Applications and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/Applications' is untrue: eyeball confirmed a folder containing 9.1MB in four files thus /Applications/Utilities/ATI Utilities on one of 'em. Only two discs called Methedrine are mounted at the moment. No user error involved here, I think. Files /Volumes/Methedrine/.DS_Store and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/.DS_Store differ Only in /Volumes/Methedrine 1/: .Spotlight-V100 Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/.TemporaryItems and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/.TemporaryItems Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/.Trashes and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/.Trashes Files /Volumes/Methedrine/.hotfiles.btree and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/.hotfiles.btree differ Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/2006-11-24 backups and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/2006-11-24 backups Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/Applications and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/Applications Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/Applications (Mac OS 9) and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/Applications (Mac OS 9) Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/Desktop and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/Desktop Files /Volumes/Methedrine/Desktop DB and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/Desktop DB differ Files /Volumes/Methedrine/Desktop DF and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/Desktop DF differ Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/Desktop Folder and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/Desktop Folder Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/Developer and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/Developer Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/Documents and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/Documents Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/Library and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/Library Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/Network and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/Network Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/System and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/System Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/System Folder and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/System Folder Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/Users and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/Users Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/Volumes and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/Volumes Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/bin and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/bin Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/cores and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/cores Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/dev and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/dev Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/etc and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/etc Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/private and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/private Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/sbin and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/sbin Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/tmp and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/tmp Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/usr and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/usr Common subdirectories: /Volumes/Methedrine/var and /Volumes/Methedrine 1/var SignatureRemove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking > > > In article > > > <1ih8wxw.x68vn51jpu7gyN%real-address-in-sig@flur.bltigibbet>, Rowland [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Any suggestions on what might work? Have you tried the demo of araxis merge, or do you want to play around with the terminal stuff? It should be enough for what you want (the demo - the product certainly is). I did an evaluation a few years back of comparison tools, and after a few weeks ended up with a short list of 1. It isn't cheap, but nothing else can touch it. I still look at others from time to time, and have spent a few years digging them to get a mac version, so am pretty keen they did! I am sure you may be able to do the same with the command line tools, but I don't have the patience (or trust) for that. SignatureWoody www.alienrat.com [snip] > Have you tried the demo of araxis merge, or do you want to play around > with the terminal stuff? I want to not spend any more cash at all on rip-off bastards flogging GUI versions of command line stuff, that's what. The reason being is that I have paid for quite a few of them in the past - and had very bad experiences in all cases. *All* cases, no exceptions. Rip off bastards, the people who flog that sort of stuff, the lot of 'em (well, the ones I've paid so far have all been). Bastards. And that word has been sanctified by the nearest thing to a nice PM I've ever known, so it's okay. Mind you, he thought shagging Edwina Curry was a good idea: proof his judgement's dodgy. > It should be enough for what you want (the demo - the product certainly > is). I did an evaluation a few years back of comparison tools, and after > a few weeks ended up with a short list of 1. It isn't cheap, but nothing > else can touch it. I still look at others from time to time, and have > spent a few years digging them to get a mac version, so am pretty keen > they did! Just a list of differences is all I want - how hard can that be to do with a command line tool? Give me a BBC Micro[1] and I could easily write a program to do the deed - but I wouldn't want to try to interface it to a modern Mac to perform the necessary. If nothing else comes up, I'll look at the GUI stuff, but I'm loathe to do so. > I am sure you may be able to do the same with the command line tools, > but I don't have the patience (or trust) for that. I don't trust the GUI stuff or anything much. I tend to trust command line stuff more - but of course, I was having to trust someone else's report of what it did rather than my own research. Rowland. [1] Actually, give me a monitor for a BBC Micro. I've got Beebs, just no displays at all. Not even a telly in the house, y'see. SignatureRemove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I want to not spend any more cash at all on rip-off bastards flogging > GUI versions of command line stuff, that's what. There is no command line version. It was just a suggestion > Just a list of differences is all I want - how hard can that be to do > with a command line tool? Give me a BBC Micro[1] and I could easily > write a program to do the deed - but I wouldn't want to try to interface > it to a modern Mac to perform the necessary. ok, I assumed the task was more complicated (I diidn't look), but if a BBC can do it, it probably isn't. > If nothing else comes up, I'll look at the GUI stuff, but I'm loathe to > do so. As I said, it was just a suggestion. SignatureWoody www.alienrat.com > > [snip] > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > There is no command line version. It was just a suggestion The job I want to do can be done from the command line; if that's a GUI app to do that job, then it's a GUI version of a command line something or other, one way or another. And I know it was just a suggestion - and you asked me about it, so I just gave you my answer to your question in the usual way of a polite ordinary person engaging in conversation. > > Just a list of differences is all I want - how hard can that be to do > > with a command line tool? Give me a BBC Micro[1] and I could easily [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ok, I assumed the task was more complicated (I diidn't look), but if a > BBC can do it, it probably isn't. Don't be daft. A BBC Micro is a general purpose microcomputer, and so is capable of arbitrary complexity within the limits of the storage it has available, which can be arbitrarily large if you hook it up to the right gear. It'll just be very very slow at some jobs compared to modern computers. Faster at others, mind - boot up time, for example. > > If nothing else comes up, I'll look at the GUI stuff, but I'm loathe to > > do so. > > As I said, it was just a suggestion. Yes, I know. And you asked me what I thought about it and I just answered your question. I'm not sure why you keep writing `it was just a suggestion' as if that point were not obvious. Rowland. SignatureRemove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking > > > [snip] > > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > app to do that job, then it's a GUI version of a command line something > or other, one way or another. Only if it does the equivilent job, and from what I see it doesn't appear to. You would have had it done by now with a reasonable tool. > And I know it was just a suggestion - and you asked me about it, so I > just gave you my answer to your question in the usual way of a polite > ordinary person engaging in conversation. I realise that. > > > Just a list of differences is all I want - how hard can that be to do > > > with a command line tool? Give me a BBC Micro[1] and I could easily [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > has available, which can be arbitrarily large if you hook it up to the > right gear. Within the bounds of what is reasonable. I don't think it is reasonable to be able to scan thousands of large files on a bbc without a large engineering effort, though it is obviously possible. It is also possible to print out all the files and compare them, but equally unuseable! > It'll just be very very slow at some jobs compared to modern computers. > Faster at others, mind - boot up time, for example. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > answered your question. I'm not sure why you keep writing `it was just > a suggestion' as if that point were not obvious. I was saying I wasn't arguing about GUIs, if you don't want to use them. And I said it twice. SignatureWoody www.alienrat.com > > > > [snip] > > > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Only if it does the equivilent job, and from what I see it doesn't > appear to. You would have had it done by now with a reasonable tool. <puzzled> But no tools are reasonable that are available, since they all have crappy documentation that makes them hard to use as far as I'm aware. Since the documentation is the sticking point, I don't get your point at all: you like badly documented software, while I don't. You think that badly documented software is better than well documented software if the badly documented stuff has a more powerful potential. I don't think that's sensible. Since my only interest in software is what it permits me to do, good documentation is part of the package as far as I'm concerned. Diff has crappy documentation - it's therefore a crappy tool. But it did the job for me very neatly once I'd found out how to do the needful. It would have taken me much longer to find out how to do the job with something else, I reckon. With diff it was a case of `Spot the incantation I'd been given was wrong, write a post asking what to do, read the man page before waiting for an answer, find the answer, job done'. <shrug> Pretty quick and easy, once I'd spotted that there was a problem due to me having been given defective advice. [snip] > > Don't be daft. A BBC Micro is a general purpose microcomputer, and so > > is capable of arbitrary complexity within the limits of the storage it [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > to be able to scan thousands of large files on a bbc without a large > engineering effort, Don't be ridiculous. It's a very very easy job to do, just likely to be very very slow. The only significant challenge is interfacing the Beeb to a modern Mac - the latter having no RS232/422/423 ports. > though it is obviously possible. It is also possible > to print out all the files and compare them, but equally unuseable! I don't see why you make that judgement. You'd just get a big tape full of data out the end, surely? Or maybe multiple tapes (unless a 100K floppy holds more - I forget). Hardly any different to what I'm using here. > > It'll just be very very slow at some jobs compared to modern computers. > > Faster at others, mind - boot up time, for example. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I was saying I wasn't arguing about GUIs, if you don't want to use them. > And I said it twice. I know. And I'm still not sure why you're making points like that - as I've pointed out more than once. Rowland. 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