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Mac Forum / Country Specific / UK Mac Group / January 2008Upgrading to OSX 10.3.9 to 10.4.8 ppc?
Hi Chums I have a new shiny 8gb iPod Nano (hurrah), but I have just found out I have to upgrade to 0SX 10.4.8 (waaaaaa) So... Given that I have a G5 iMac ppc, can I just buy an old copy of Tiger from ebay, or do I need to look out for a "ppc" version rather than an "Intel" version? Or did Tiger 0SX 10.4 just come as one version, with the ppc and intel flavours on the same discs? - Sorry for being out of the ppc/intel loop Thanks in advance Sw3 > I have a new shiny 8gb iPod Nano (hurrah), but I have just found out I > have to upgrade to 0SX 10.4.8 (waaaaaa) You might still be able to buy 10.4.6 from an Apple store. It is listed on the NZ version of the online store. You could also consider 10.5 if you want to jump two versions and skip 10.4 completely. > So... Given that I have a G5 iMac ppc, can I just buy an old copy of > Tiger from ebay, or do I need to look out for a "ppc" version rather > than an "Intel" version? You need a standard retail edition of Tiger, not a "model specific" edition. The two types of DVDs are quite distinctive: the retail edition has a black background with a big white or grey X on it, while the model-specific edition is mostly grey with the computer model printed on the left side. The retail edition of Tiger only works on PowerPC models, so you are fine there. An "upgrade" edition might work, but it is a violation of the licence agreement for anyone to sell this separately from the computer for which it was obtained. The upgrade edition looks like the retail edition but says "Upgrade" (or possibly "CPU Drop-in DVD") instead of "Install" on the left side. It is also less convenient than the standard retail edition, because you can't use it to install the OS on a bare hard drive, only on top of a current installation of 10.3. You might be able to use a model-specific edition for a PowerMac G5, depending on whether the DVD for later models still included code to support earlier PowerMac G5 models. It is also a violation of the licence agreement to sell these model-specific DVDs separately from the computer they came with, because they are sold by Apple as part of the computer system. (It is arguably OK to buy one of these to replace your original set which were lost, but definitely not to upgrade to a newer OS version.) There are some variants of the standard retail product: - I've seen retail DVDs which are versions 10.4, 10.4.3 and 10.4.6. The 10.4.3 and 10.4.6 ones have one benefit: they can be installed on any PowerPC Mac model, as the last models were supplied with 10.4.2. Minor benefits are that they have updated utility software on the DVD and installation will require slightly fewer updates to catch up with the current system version. - A "Family pack" will work fine, but will probably cost more because it can be installed on up to five computers (original price was US$199 instead of US$129). - Tiger was available as a set of CDs as well as single DVD (if you did a trade in with Apple). There should be six CDs in this set, two of which are the developer tools which are of less interest (and out of date compared to what you can download from Apple). The DVD edition will be much more convenient if you have a choice between them. The CD edition might also cost more because it is rare. - Avoid anything mentioning "Mac OS X Server". You want the standard (client) edition of Tiger, not the Server edition. > Or did Tiger 0SX 10.4 just come as one version, with the ppc and intel > flavours on the same discs? That is true for Leopard (10.5). Leopard is universal, and if set up correctly, a single hard drive can boot either PowerPC or Intel Macs. For 10.4, PowerPC and Intel versions are completely separate. The only way to get 10.4 for an Intel Mac was to buy a computer which came with it. (The first Intel Macs were released around the time 10.4.4 was current.) 10.4 for Intel was never sold as a retail product (except for the Server edition).  SignatureDavid Empson dempson@actrix.gen.nz > You might still be able to buy 10.4.6 from an Apple store. It is listed > on the NZ version of the online store. You could also consider 10.5 if > you want to jump two versions and skip 10.4 completely. I'm just after a cheap fix here. The UK apple store don't appear to sell Tiger anymore, can anybody suggest a cheap source (I live in Sheffield btw) Thanks again > Minor > benefits are that they have updated utility software on the DVD and > installation will require slightly fewer updates to catch up with the > current system version. Isn't there a combi updater to 10.4.11? Presumably, once the earlier 10.4 is installed, Software Update will offer the combi? SignaturePeter >> Minor >> benefits are that they have updated utility software on the DVD and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >Isn't there a combi updater to 10.4.11? Presumably, once the earlier >10.4 is installed, Software Update will offer the combi? No, as far as I'm aware Software Update always uses the "from here to there" model rather than the "release .0 to there" combi. Which is why I always update the OS version using the combi, manually downloading it. Cheers - Jaimie Signature"Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future" - Niels Bohr > >> Minor > >> benefits are that they have updated utility software on the DVD and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > No, as far as I'm aware Software Update always uses the "from here to > there" model rather than the "release .0 to there" combi. Only if you are one version behind. If you are at least two minor versions behind, Software Update offers you the combo. Some examples: If you are running 10.4.10, you will be offered the 10.4.11 delta update (relatively small). There are variants of these delta updates according to exactly which 10.4.10 build you are running - recently released models get a different (smaller) update than older ones which had previously been updated to 10.4.10. The delta update you can download manually covers all of these variations. If you are running 10.4.0 through 10.4.9, you will be offered the 10.4.11 combo update (large, and identical to the one you can download manually, except for how it is packaged for distribution). (There are also both Intel and PowerPC builds for 10.4.x, of course.) Apple doesn't make delta updates that go up more than one minor version, with one exception: 10.0.2 had a serious bug, and they rapidly released 10.0.3. The 10.0.3 delta update worked on both 10.0.2 and 10.0.1, but not 10.0.0. SignatureDavid Empson dempson@actrix.gen.nz >> >Isn't there a combi updater to 10.4.11? Presumably, once the earlier >> >10.4 is installed, Software Update will offer the combi? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Only if you are one version behind. If you are at least two minor >versions behind, Software Update offers you the combo. That's good. I never noticed, but it's pretty rare that I have to do a fresh install on a machine with an install disk that's old enough for this to show up. Thanks - J Signature"When you read the speech where the phonetic-spelling dyslexic is transcribing his conversation with the giant lisping sloths, you realize that here is a writer that wakes up in the morning without the slightest shred of self doubt." - Sean Stewart, rasfw, about Iain M Banks Daft thought occurs: can one go to an OS-X dealer, hand over an OS-X bare-machine-install set of disks and some upgrade $$$ and walk out with the latest bare-machine-install set of disks? It seems to me that'd be the tidiest solution. Having to keep two sets of disks (bare + upgrade) feels like seeking trouble. SignatureAndrew Stephenson > Daft thought occurs: can one go to an OS-X dealer, hand over an > OS-X bare-machine-install set of disks and some upgrade $$$ and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > -- > Andrew Stephenson Errrr to add to the confusion.. can I buy a OSx10.5 upgrade and go from 10.3.9 - to the latest version in one go? Thanks (I have a ppc G5 imac with load sof RAM) >> Daft thought occurs: can one go to an OS-X dealer, hand over an >> OS-X bare-machine-install set of disks and some upgrade $$$ and [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Errrr to add to the confusion.. can I buy a OSx10.5 upgrade and go >from 10.3.9 - to the latest version in one go? You can buy 10.5 *full* and go that way. The only current Leopard upgrade disks are those that come in the box with a Mac which has Tiger preinstalled. Cheers - Jaimie SignatureNote that despite substantial evidence to the contrary, it is in fact possible to delete files copied to the desktop, and you don't need to throw away the computer and get a new one once the desktop is full. -- Peter Corlett, ASR > >Errrr to add to the confusion.. can I buy a OSx10.5 upgrade and go > >from 10.3.9 - to the latest version in one go? > > You can buy 10.5 *full* and go that way. The only current Leopard > upgrade disks are those that come in the box with a Mac which has > Tiger preinstalled. Is there a seperate version for PPC and Intel macs? Ta >> >Errrr to add to the confusion.. can I buy a OSx10.5 upgrade and go >> >from 10.3.9 - to the latest version in one go? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Is there a seperate version for PPC and Intel macs? No, there's just the one retail version that covers both. Apple do a reasonable job of avoiding unnecessary pit-traps for the purchaser. Cheers - Jaimie Signature"You know how dumb the average person is? Well, by definition, half of 'em are dumber than THAT." - J.R. "Bob" Dobbs >>>> Errrr to add to the confusion.. can I buy a OSx10.5 upgrade and go >>>> from 10.3.9 - to the latest version in one go? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > No, there's just the one retail version that covers both. Apple do a > reasonable job of avoiding unnecessary pit-traps for the purchaser. There was no need to do an Intel retail version of 10.4, because the only Intel Macs came with 10.4 discs already. IIRC the 10.5 retail discs are Universal, so again no special PPC or Intel versions are required. They Just Work. Cheers, Chris > Daft thought occurs: can one go to an OS-X dealer, hand over an > OS-X bare-machine-install set of disks and some upgrade $$$ and > walk out with the latest bare-machine-install set of disks? No. If they did that, it would kill retail sales of the operating system, and iLife. They would have to charge the same amount as buying the new OS version PLUS iLife. AppleCare might have some way to replace lost or damaged system CDs/DVDs, but they aren't likely to upgrade you in the process. (I've never needed such a service, and haven't heard of anyone else getting replacement CDs/DVDs in this manner.) > It seems to me that'd be the tidiest solution. Having to keep two sets of > disks (bare + upgrade) feels like seeking trouble. I have original system CD or DVD sets for the six Macs I currently own (oldest one purchased in 1996), plus developer or retail editions of every Mac OS version from 7.5.3 up to 10.5. I don't see much problem having one extra DVD which needs to be kept safe along with the original set that came with your computer. SignatureDavid Empson dempson@actrix.gen.nz > > Minor benefits are that they have updated utility software on the DVD > > and installation will require slightly fewer updates to catch up with > > the current system version. > > Isn't there a combi updater to 10.4.11? Presumably, once the earlier > 10.4 is installed, Software Update will offer the combi? Yes, that covers the basic operating system, and the same combo updater would be downloaded if you were starting from any of 10.4, 10.4.3 or 10.4.6, so you don't save any download time on the single biggest update. It is some of the other updaters which you can avoid by starting with 10.4.6. I don't recall exactly which ones, but there are several Airport and Java updates which have to be installed in the right order, some of which require restarts, and some of them are already included in 10.4.6. SignatureDavid Empson dempson@actrix.gen.nz [snip] > An "upgrade" edition might work, but it is a violation of the licence > agreement for anyone to sell this separately from the computer for which > it was obtained. As I understand it, such terms are not enforceable. As I understand it, no software licence agreement can be enforced under UK law at all unless you agree to it before purchase (and probably also under NZ law and pretty much anywhere with contract law originating in UK law), and I've read a legal opinion that in UK law, once you've bought something like a CD of software, it's yours to sell or otherwise dispose of as you wish no matter what. [snip] Rowland. SignatureRemove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking > [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > you agree to it before purchase (and probably also under NZ law and > pretty much anywhere with contract law originating in UK law), The order form for the Mac OS X Up to Date programme covers this. It says the software is only for use with the computer which qualified for it, and you have to send Apple this form in order to get the "Upgrade" DVD. That seems to completely satisfy all legal restrictions about agreeing to the licence before purchase. The situation is less clear with the CPU drop-in DVD. It will be covered by the licence agreement with a new computer (all software bundled with the computer is part of that computer and can't be sold separately). You don't get to see that licence agreement before buying the computer. SignatureDavid Empson dempson@actrix.gen.nz I ve seen a Leopard upgrade on ebay, but when I asked the seller if t would upgrade from 10.3.9 to 10.5, he said "I think it only does 10.4 > 10.5 Could this be right? Thanks >I ve seen a Leopard upgrade on ebay, but when I asked the seller if t >would upgrade from 10.3.9 to 10.5, he said "I think it only does 10.4 >> 10.5 > >Could this be right? No. Cheers - Jaimie Signature"The problem is not that the world is full of fools, it's that lightning isn't being distributed correctly." - Mark Twain > >I ve seen a Leopard upgrade on ebay, but when I asked the seller if t > >would upgrade from 10.3.9 to 10.5, he said "I think it only does 10.4 [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Cheers - Jaimie > -- Some of the ebay sellers sugget that you need to buy the tiger upgrade 1st, then buy the upgrade to leopard with another updater (ie Tiger>leopard) indeed, some of "Buy both at the same time" offers So is this a complete fib? >> >I ve seen a Leopard upgrade on ebay, but when I asked the seller if t >> >would upgrade from 10.3.9 to 10.5, he said "I think it only does 10.4 [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >So is this a complete fib? Yep. A full retail version of Leopard will update from any prior version, on all supported hardware (which is something like a G3 at >800MHz, I assume you've already checked your machine is Leopardable). Any further conditionals from the seller strongly suggest that the seller is trying to sell off a non-retail disk that came with a Mac, which will by and large only install on that model of Mac. Cheers - Jaimie Signature"Choose the Dark Side... now why would I do a thing like that?" -- Obi-Wan Renton > <rob_mur...@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> >I ve seen a Leopard upgrade on ebay, but when I asked the seller if t [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Cheers - Jaimie Thanks Jamie, the Apple store does the full Mac OS X v10.5.1 Leopard malarky for £85 with free P&P I don't want to buy a pig in a poke (so to speak) So, unless anybody can post me a link to a cheaper deal, I'm going for the "better safe than sorry" applestore route Ta Rob >>>> I ve seen a Leopard upgrade on ebay, but when I asked the seller if t >>>> would upgrade from 10.3.9 to 10.5, he said "I think it only does 10.4 [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > version, on all supported hardware (which is something like a G3 at > 800MHz, I assume you've already checked your machine is Leopardable). Provided it is a full retail version. You should avoid the upgrade discs which tend to be machine specific and go for the full retail versions. A full version won't care what system you have been using. SignatureDavid Kennedy http://www.anindianinexile.com >I ve seen a Leopard upgrade on ebay, but when I asked the seller if t >would upgrade from 10.3.9 to 10.5, he said "I think it only does 10.4 >> 10.5 > >Could this be right? I'll put a condition on that no. Remember that you there is no separate "upgrade" version, just the full version of 10.5 which will do a fresh install or an upgrade install. If something is being sold specifically as an "upgrade disk" it may be a drop-in 10.5 DVD that came with a Mac that has 10.4 factory installed. This disk is product specific so will almost certainly refuse to install on your hardware, and won't be licensed. Cheers - Jaimie >So, what do *you* do for a living? I sit in a chair pressing small plastic rectangles with my fingers while peering at many tiny, colored dots. -- Peter Manders >> I ve seen a Leopard upgrade on ebay, but when I asked the seller if t >> would upgrade from 10.3.9 to 10.5, he said "I think it only does 10.4 [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > installed. This disk is product specific so will almost certainly > refuse to install on your hardware, and won't be licensed. If you did want to continue with that dodgy-sounding-seller, I'd ask them to specify the Apple product code of what they're selling, as that will tell you (via google) if they're selling you the retail version or something else. I'm not sure what you'd then do if you received something different from the seller... Cheers, Chris > > [snip] > > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > it, and you have to send Apple this form in order to get the "Upgrade" > DVD. Hmm... >That seems to completely satisfy all legal restrictions about > agreeing to the licence before purchase. Not /all/ such requirements: in the case of UK consumer contracts, they have to be fair. And I bet that sort of restriction would be considered unfair. > The situation is less clear with the CPU drop-in DVD. It will be covered > by the licence agreement with a new computer (all software bundled with > the computer is part of that computer and can't be sold separately). You > don't get to see that licence agreement before buying the computer. Which means it cannot have any legal force - perfectly clear, I'd've thought. Rowland. SignatureRemove the animal for email address: rowland.mcdonnell@dog.physics.org Sorry - the spam got to me http://www.mag-uk.org http://www.bmf.co.uk UK biker? Join MAG and the BMF and stop the Eurocrats banning biking |
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