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Mac Forum / Country Specific / UK Mac Group / October 2007Windows OEM version
I notice one can buy an OEM version of Windows XP from places like Amazon for around £60. Is it possible (and legal) to use this OEM version to instal Windows on a Mac with Boot Camp, or does one have to use the full consumer version for about 3 times this price? Are there any other snags? Googling this question gives a variety of somewhat conflicting answers.  SignatureMike Lane (UK North Yorkshire) To contact me replace invalid with mike underscore lane > I notice one can buy an OEM version of Windows XP from places like Amazon for > around £60. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Googling this question gives a variety of somewhat conflicting answers. Possible, yes. Legal, no. In order to legally use the OEM versions of Microsoft products, you have to be registered as a Microsoft System Builder. We've been having this debate round the University IT lists for a few weeks, and this was one of the clarifications that were issued. Cheers, Signaturejames dore IT Officer, New College, Oxford http://www.new.ox.ac.uk/ it-support@new.... > Possible, yes. Legal, no. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Cheers, Or buy it along with equipment to build a computer. Many traders used to specify a clause saying that you had to buy it along with a new motherboard or hard drive. Signaturehttp://www.rexx.co.uk To email me, visit the site. http://www.rexx.co.uk/runes/ - personal online rune readings > > Possible, yes. Legal, no. > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > used to specify a clause saying that you had to buy it along with a > new motherboard or hard drive. Some specify something as cheap as a mouse to make the bundle 'legal' as far as they are concerned. The OEMs installs do work though. SignatureJon B Above email address IS valid. <http://www.bramley-computers.co.uk/> Apple Laptop Repairs. > Many traders > used to specify a clause saying that you had to buy it along with a > new motherboard or hard drive. They still do. Novatech for example: "In order to comply with the terms of the [OEM] licence this software must be bought with a qualifying non-peripheral hardware component, such as a hard drive, motherboard, memory, CPU, etc. " I'll be getting a hard drive from them to run Boot Camp ;-) SignatureMike Lane (UK North Yorkshire) To contact me replace invalid with mike underscore lane >> Many traders >> used to specify a clause saying that you had to buy it along with a >> new motherboard or hard drive. > > They still do. Indeed, I upgraded my father-in-law's PC to XP last summer and it was cheaper to buy the OEM plus a HD rather than the upgrade version of XP on its own. > >> Many traders > >> used to specify a clause saying that you had to buy it along with a [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cheaper to buy the OEM plus a HD rather than the upgrade version of XP > on its own. Yes. But. This practice of selling the OEM license with any old hardware is of questionable legality, and in order to actually /use/ the OEM license (i.e. install it on a system) you need to have Microsoft System Builder status. I'm not saying it won't work, and for the purposes of Windows Genuine Advantage you have a valid serial number, but you shouldn't kid yourself that it's entirely legal. The only properly legal way to get a Microsoft OS on it's own is to buy the retail box copy. Cheers, Signaturejames dore IT Officer, New College, Oxford http://www.new.ox.ac.uk/ it-support@new.... >> Indeed, I upgraded my father-in-law's PC to XP last summer and it was >> cheaper to buy the OEM plus a HD rather than the upgrade version of XP [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > The only properly legal way to get a Microsoft OS on it's own is to buy > the retail box copy. If MS were ever to enforce that properly they are likely to piss off *a lot* of people and probably push them to look elsewhere. > >> Indeed, I upgraded my father-in-law's PC to XP last summer and it was > >> cheaper to buy the OEM plus a HD rather than the upgrade version of XP [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > If MS were ever to enforce that properly they are likely to piss off *a > lot* of people and probably push them to look elsewhere. not sure they would attaully, most folks just buy a PC while there is homebuilder market, it would be truer to say it's a home upgrader market. and as games is one of windows markets, i mean they are not going to jump to linux or mac osx if there are into games are they. roger Signaturewww.rogermerriman.com >>> The only properly legal way to get a Microsoft OS on it's own is to buy >>> the retail box copy. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > homebuilder market, it would be truer to say it's a home upgrader > market. Just because someone buys a PC with Windows on it does not mean they'll keep Windows on it exclusively or at all. Reading several Linux newsgroups and fora reveals many people *are* being pushed by MS's hardline policies and crap software to try alternatives. > and as games is one of windows markets, i mean they are not > going to jump to linux or mac osx if there are into games are they. Maybe, maybe not. Many games have been ported to Linux, but the gaming market is not the only market. There's also the home user who just wants something to do the accounts, sort the photos, surf the web, etc. > >>> The only properly legal way to get a Microsoft OS on it's own is to buy > >>> the retail box copy. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > being pushed by MS's hardline policies and crap software to try > alternatives. there are, but are but thus far seems to be vocial minority. the year of desktop linux doesn't seem to be dawning yet. > > and as games is one of windows markets, i mean they are not > > going to jump to linux or mac osx if there are into games are they. > > Maybe, maybe not. Many games have been ported to Linux, but the gaming > market is not the only market. There's also the home user who just wants > something to do the accounts, sort the photos, surf the web, etc. games isn't the only market but it is massive, very few games get ported, ID tends to port it's games over, but most games don't get ported, linux gaming last i looked linux's games is lacking even compared to mac gaming. roger Signaturewww.rogermerriman.com >games isn't the only market but it is massive, very few games get >ported, ID tends to port it's games over, but most games don't get >ported, linux gaming last i looked linux's games is lacking even >compared to mac gaming. This is changing, there are a couple of commercial "EZport" toolkits that allow games written for DirectX (Windows and Xbox) to be bumped over to OSX and Linux relatively easily. With the huge takeup of Macs by US college-age kids, one-third of whom are arriving at university with a Mac, the games market for OSX is going to grow and grow. Cheers - Jaimie SignatureHappiness, n.: An agreeable sensation arising from contemplating the misery of another. - Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary > >games isn't the only market but it is massive, very few games get > >ported, ID tends to port it's games over, but most games don't get [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > that allow games written for DirectX (Windows and Xbox) to be bumped > over to OSX and Linux relatively easily. that still means a port though doesn't it? > With the huge takeup of Macs by US college-age kids, one-third of whom > are arriving at university with a Mac, the games market for OSX is > going to grow and grow. that is good, should make the market more attractive. > Cheers - Jaimie roger Signaturewww.rogermerriman.com >> >games isn't the only market but it is massive, very few games get >> >ported, ID tends to port it's games over, but most games don't get [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >that still means a port though doesn't it? Somewhat, but it's a matter of definitions. When you're releasing a game on the Xbox360, PS3, Windows XP/Vista, and OSX - which is the primary platform and which is a port? Sometimes it's obvious, when a game is utter crap on one box and not another - this is usually a sign of the company rushing a port late on in the dev cycle. Most of the time it works pretty well. >> With the huge takeup of Macs by US college-age kids, one-third of whom >> are arriving at university with a Mac, the games market for OSX is >> going to grow and grow. >> >that is good, should make the market more attractive. Fnar? Though the last few times I've been mingling with US college age kids it's been more "get me away from these creatures!". Cheers - Jaimie Signature"The problem is not that the world is full of fools, it's that lightning isn't being distributed correctly." - Mark Twain > >> >games isn't the only market but it is massive, very few games get > >> >ported, ID tends to port it's games over, but most games don't get [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > game on the Xbox360, PS3, Windows XP/Vista, and OSX - which is the > primary platform and which is a port? well yes but thus far they are rare, ID and blizzard do but most don't, maybe they will in time. > Sometimes it's obvious, when a game is utter crap on one box and not > another - this is usually a sign of the company rushing a port late on > in the dev cycle. Most of the time it works pretty well. some times goes the other way, got a few games that are better than the pc ones, as for various reasons had more time spent on them. > >> With the huge takeup of Macs by US college-age kids, one-third of whom > >> are arriving at university with a Mac, the games market for OSX is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Fnar? Though the last few times I've been mingling with US college age > kids it's been more "get me away from these creatures!". i was thinking more money than phoar, does remind one as one gets older doesn't it. > Cheers - Jaimie roger Signaturewww.rogermerriman.com >> If MS were ever to enforce that properly they are likely to piss off *a >> lot* of people and probably push them to look elsewhere. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >market. and as games is one of windows markets, i mean they are not >going to jump to linux or mac osx if there are into games are they. Good points Roger and further, I offer once you have a box good enough for playing a decent game then the same box would easily also do all the everyday stuff and probably be pretty good a rendering a video or two? I just put together a Quad Core PC for a mate for doing just that (video rendering). It was all nice stuff and came to a touch over 700 quid (and the bits weren't bought from the cheapest sources). He gave it a quick go the other day and seemed very impressed the way he couldn't outrun it when inserting big video segments and transitions etc (like he could his old and very miss used P4 single core box). I was hoping he'd let me install one of my more machine testing games on it .. ;-) All the best .. T i m > >> If MS were ever to enforce that properly they are likely to piss off *a > >> lot* of people and probably push them to look elsewhere. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > the everyday stuff and probably be pretty good a rendering a video or > two? it should be yes. though most come at a cost of space and noise. > I just put together a Quad Core PC for a mate for doing just that > (video rendering). It was all nice stuff and came to a touch over 700 > quid (and the bits weren't bought from the cheapest sources). > He gave it a quick go the other day and seemed very impressed the way > he couldn't outrun it when inserting big video segments and [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > T i m roger Signaturewww.rogermerriman.com >> Good points Roger and further, I offer once you have a box good enough >> for playing a decent game then the same box would easily also do all >> the everyday stuff and probably be pretty good a rendering a video or >> two? >> >it should be yes. though most come at a cost of space and noise. True, but the 'space' often means flexibility / modularity / standardisation and the noise can be dealt with via re some suitably chosen (often cheap) components and good design (or re-design if you are me).. We generally have two PC's on in this room and you would be hard pressed to hear either was running. I'm really looking forward to the moment when Jenny tries to use her Mini, finds it's out of memory or disk space to give me the excuse to open it up and upgrade it (into the second year + cover from JL now so less of a risk as I see it). All the best .. T i m > >> Good points Roger and further, I offer once you have a box good enough > >> for playing a decent game then the same box would easily also do all [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > chosen (often cheap) components and good design (or re-design if you > are me).. up to a point, then you start getting into new mother board, new CPU etc. for me, and judging by sales i'm not that uncommon the expandblity of desktop wich is nice is off set by size etc, which is why i've been sold on laptops, i still use my old powerbook, which is 4 1/2 years old. there are faster machines in the house, but none as useful to me. > We generally have two PC's on in this room and you would be hard > pressed to hear either was running. i would ;-) with ease. > I'm really looking forward to the moment when Jenny tries to use her > Mini, finds it's out of memory or disk space to give me the excuse to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > T i m roger Signaturewww.rogermerriman.com > I notice one can buy an OEM version of Windows XP from places like Amazon for > around £60. > > Is it possible Yes > (and legal) use by a consumer would be a violation of the license. "This product is intended for system builders and small OEMs (Original Equipment Manufacturers) who manufacture computer systems and preinstall Microsoft OEM system builder software onto those systems. Its use is subject to the OEM System Builder License Agreement that is affixed to the side of all OEM system builder software packs. The system builder who installs the individual software license and distributes hardware units must provide end-user support on terms at least as favourable as the terms under which the system builder provides end-user support for any fully assembled computer system. The system builder must place its support phone number in a noticeable location in the fully assembled computer system help files or end-user documentation. The full documentation on Microsoft OEM System Builder licence is at http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/English_SB_License.pdf." You want to read that file. You really, really, REALLY want to read that file. > to use this OEM version to instal Windows on a Mac > with Boot Camp, or does one have to use the full consumer version for about 3 > times this price? Are there any other snags? If you buy and use the OEM version you are in violation of Mickeysoft's license. Among other things you don't get Mickeysoft support; the system builder who bought the OEM version is supposed to provide that. > Googling this question gives a variety of somewhat conflicting answers. Let's just say that Mickeysoft cannot stop you, though they wish they could. However, just because they can't stop you doesn't mean that they must help you. They won't. Use at your own risk. Signatureemail to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com. >Use at your own risk. Thats true of almost all software. -- Richard Signature"Consideration shall be given to the need for as many as 32 characters in some alphabets" - X3.4, 1963. >If you buy and use the OEM version you are in violation of Mickeysoft's >license. Among other things you don't get Mickeysoft support; the system [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Use at your own risk. Out of interest, who has ever called M$ for support? I'm not saying people don't just didn't know who they were? I've been installing / using M$ Server / Workstation / Mail / Gateway software for 20+ years and only called them once [1](so far)? All the best .. T i m [1] For an issue between an MSMail <> ccMail gateway and it ended up with their dev team. >> If you buy and use the OEM version you are in violation of Mickeysoft's >> license. Among other things you don't get Mickeysoft support; the system [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Out of interest, who has ever called M$ for support? I have. I've also used their email support. On some occasions they've been quite helpful. On other occasions, not so. > I'm not saying > people don't just didn't know who they were? > > I've been installing / using M$ Server / Workstation / Mail / Gateway > software for 20+ years and only called them once [1](so far)? I don't call them unless I can't find the answer in Technet. > All the best .. > > T i m > > [1] For an issue between an MSMail <> ccMail gateway and it ended up > with their dev team. I've had brewed-up Exchange servers and strange DNS and DHCP problems with Server 2000 and 2003, and GP problems, and numerous problems with Office 97, 98, 2000, 2001, 2003, and 2004. (In particular, Thou Shalt Not use Office 97 with W2K and a user who does not have admin access, unless thou wish to have Very Strange Errors.) There was also the Great HP LJ 4000 Won't Print From WinNT Clients But Will From W2K Clients problem. Signatureemail to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com. >> Out of interest, who has ever called M$ for support? > >I have. I've also used their email support. On some occasions they've been >quite helpful. On other occasions, not so. Ok .. >> I'm not saying >> people don't just didn't know who they were? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >I don't call them unless I can't find the answer in Technet. Good plan. >> All the best .. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >I've had brewed-up Exchange servers and strange DNS and DHCP problems with >Server 2000 and 2003, and GP problems, Ok and were M$ with any of those? >and numerous problems with Office 97, >98, 2000, 2001, 2003, and 2004. (In particular, Thou Shalt Not use Office 97 >with W2K and a user who does not have admin access, unless thou wish to have >Very Strange Errors.) There was also the Great HP LJ 4000 Won't Print From >WinNT Clients But Will From W2K Clients problem. Meh ... apps / user problems .. ;-) All the best .. T i m > Out of interest, who has ever called M$ for support? I'm not saying > people don't just didn't know who they were? > > I've been installing / using M$ Server / Workstation / Mail / Gateway > software for 20+ years and only called them once [1](so far)? Because after 20+ years installing you ended up in a nuthouse and were allowed one last telephone call? Signaturemarco >> Out of interest, who has ever called M$ for support? I'm not saying >> people don't just didn't know who they were? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >Because after 20+ years installing you ended up in a nuthouse and were >allowed one last telephone call? LOL Far from it Marco. What's put me closer to a nuthouse is trying to 'cope' with both Linux and the Mac OS's after being familiar with Windows. But I guess it's the same as the RE Bullet 350 (motorbike) I had for a while after riding Japanese / German bikes all my life .. I could easily deal with the reversed foot controls when everything was going sweetly but the when stuff hits the fan you are generally more competent with systems you are more familiar with? All the best .. T i m > >If you buy and use the OEM version you are in violation of Mickeysoft's > >license. Among other things you don't get Mickeysoft support; the system [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Out of interest, who has ever called M$ for support? Me. > I'm not saying > people don't just didn't know who they were? Me. > I've been installing / using M$ Server / Workstation / Mail / Gateway > software for 20+ years and only called them once [1](so far)? So you as well. SignatureWoody www.alienrat.com >> >If you buy and use the OEM version you are in violation of Mickeysoft's >> >license. Among other things you don't get Mickeysoft support; the system [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > >Me. Thought you might have. Did the reboot help? ;-) >> I'm not saying >> people don't just didn't know who they were? > >Me. So you said ... >> I've been installing / using M$ Server / Workstation / Mail / Gateway >> software for 20+ years and only called them once [1](so far)? > >So you as well. Yep, and I knew why I had ... ;-) All the best .. T i m > >> >If you buy and use the OEM version you are in violation of Mickeysoft's > >> >license. Among other things you don't get Mickeysoft support; the system [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thought you might have. Did the reboot help? ;-) No reboot. They were pretty helpful. > >> I'm not saying > >> people don't just didn't know who they were? > > > >Me. > > So you said ... As was I. > >> I've been installing / using M$ Server / Workstation / Mail / Gateway > >> software for 20+ years and only called them once [1](so far)? > > > >So you as well. > > Yep, and I knew why I had ... ;-) I hope so - otherwise it would be concerning. SignatureWoody Alienrat Design Ltd >> >> I've been installing / using M$ Server / Workstation / Mail / Gateway >> >> software for 20+ years and only called them once [1](so far)? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >I hope so - otherwise it would be concerning. Awww, thanks Woody. ;-) All the best .. T i m > Out of interest, who has ever called M$ for support? I'm not saying > people don't just didn't know who they were? To get some hotfixes, yes. (One didn't fix the problem). Tim SignatureTim Gowen >> Out of interest, who has ever called M$ for support? I'm not saying >> people don't just didn't know who they were? > >To get some hotfixes, yes. (One didn't fix the problem). Ok ta Tim. All the best .. T i m > >If you buy and use the OEM version you are in violation of Mickeysoft's > >license. Among other things you don't get Mickeysoft support; the system [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Out of interest, who has ever called M$ for support? I'm not saying > people don't just didn't know who they were? Me, to find out why our Campus Agreement license codes wouldn't let me license our Win2k3 Terminal Server. "Oops. Because we sent you a code with a typo." Cheers, Signaturejames dore IT Officer, New College, Oxford http://www.new.ox.ac.uk/ it-support@new.... > Me, to find out why our Campus Agreement license codes wouldn't let me > license our Win2k3 Terminal Server. > > "Oops. Because we sent you a code with a typo." Microsoft uses codes with groups of 4 characters in, doesn't it? Reminds me of <http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/posts/Random/RASN2-Swears-2007-10-16-15-00.html> Cheers, Chris > > Me, to find out why our Campus Agreement license codes wouldn't let me > > license our Win2k3 Terminal Server. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > <http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/posts/Random/RASN2-Swears-2007-10-16-15-00 > .html> Sadly they use five character sets, but that's a sweet link :-> Signaturejames dore IT Officer, New College, Oxford http://www.new.ox.ac.uk/ it-support@new.... >> Out of interest, who has ever called M$ for support? I'm not saying >> people don't just didn't know who they were? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >"Oops. Because we sent you a code with a typo." Ooops indeed! It amazes me how with things so important people don't double / triple check they have got it right .. like printing a flyer x 10,000 and putting the wrong phone number or email address on it ... All the best .. T i m > It amazes me how with things so important people don't double / triple > check they have got it right .. like printing a flyer x 10,000 and > putting the wrong phone number or email address on it ... It's incredibly easy to do. I once made a 'Horizon' on global warming. On the Sunday morning before transmission, I felt that there was *something* wrong somewhere, so I sad down with a VHS copy of the finished programme to go through it for the Nth time (where 'N' is a number large enough to be really, really boring). There was a glaring spelling mistake in one of the captions- 'univeristy' for 'unversity'. People would have been writing in for months- they do... I was able to get it fixed that morning. But at least five of us had sat in VT the day before, watching as we typed that in, and then reviewed the show at least three times; once for content, then a tech review and finally a copying session where we watched it *again*. 10,000 copies... That one was seen on transmission by at least a million and a half people. SignaturePeter >> It amazes me how with things so important people don't double / triple >> check they have got it right .. like printing a flyer x 10,000 and [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] >10,000 copies... That one was seen on transmission by at least a million >and a half people. Ouch! I take your point re the above example and at least *you* had a gut feeling that something wasn't right and not seeing spelling mistakes / typos is something I can do very easily. The missus though is a stickler for such details (but wouldn't 'feel' a soft tyre on the car for example) and they rely on her at work to ensure 'easily checkable' stuff like phone numbers / email addresses and simple spelling / typos don't slip through (and get printed annually in two lorry loads of catalogues)! Some people are better at such than others .. our daughter has been frustrated by some books (to the point where she will stop reading them) and most of the flyers produced by her old school / anyone re how many errors they contained (like mother like daughter), I will generally just read through the errors ..? All the best .. T i m > The full documentation on Microsoft OEM System > Builder licence is at > http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/English_SB_License.pdf." > > You want to read that file. You really, really, REALLY want to read that > file. Why? My understanding is that no software manufacturer has ever tried to enforce its licence in a court of law. Cheers, Luke SignatureRed Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk> >> The full documentation on Microsoft OEM System >> Builder licence is at [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > My understanding is that no software manufacturer has ever tried to > enforce its licence in a court of law. Would you _really_ like to be the test case? Signatureemail to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com. >>> The full documentation on Microsoft OEM System >>> Builder licence is at [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > >Would you _really_ like to be the test case? It's not going to happen. The software publishers have legal departments who draft these things specifically to try and scare folks into not doing stuff, while knowing full well that they can't possibly take it to court because it'll be thrown out. They seem to have succeeded, eh? Cheers - Jaimie Signature"It's people like that who make you realize how little you've accomplished. It is a sobering thought, for example, that when Mozart was my age, he had been dead for two years" - Tom Lehrer >>>> The full documentation on Microsoft OEM System >>>> Builder licence is at [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > into not doing stuff, while knowing full well that they can't possibly > take it to court because it'll be thrown out. You have more confidence in Monkey Boy Ballmer's intelligence and sense than I do. > They seem to have succeeded, eh? Personally, at home I use Education License WinStuff. US$7.50 for WinXP Pro, US$12.50 for Office 2003, US$20 each for Vista Business and Office 2008. I'm legal... and for a whole lot less than OEM pricing. Due to the way the licenses are written, I can't get more than four copies if I want to stay legal, but that means that I could get two more licenses for XP, and three each for Office 2003, Office 2008, and Vista. And, frankly, the twenty bucks for Vista was about 25 too much. If I'd spent full price for it I'd be _really_ pissed. Signatureemail to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com. >>>>> The full documentation on Microsoft OEM System >>>>> Builder licence is at [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >You have more confidence in Monkey Boy Ballmer's intelligence and sense than >I do. None at all. However, if they don't give two sh.ts about fully-fledged piracy: http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=452150&mode=threaded they're not going to care about domestic license breakers. Plus twenty years of empirical evidence. Cheers - Jaimie SignatureIf you can't beat your computer at chess, try kickboxing > None at all. However, if they don't give two sh.ts about fully-fledged > piracy: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Plus twenty years of empirical evidence. M$ didn't get where it is today by discouraging piracy did they. SignatureDavid Kennedy http://www.anindianinexile.com > > My understanding is that no software manufacturer has ever tried to > > enforce its licence in a court of law. > > Would you _really_ like to be the test case? Frankly, that's irrelevant. MS would have to find me first. Cheers, Luke SignatureRed Rose Ramblings, the diary of an Essex boy in exile in Lancashire <http://www.shrimper.org.uk> > > Would you _really_ like to be the test case? > > Frankly, that's irrelevant. MS would have to find me first. And here we've been talking about ninjas abseiling from black helicopters. Didn't you realise that's what it was about? SignaturePeter >>> Would you _really_ like to be the test case? >> >> Frankly, that's irrelevant. MS would have to find me first. > > And here we've been talking about ninjas abseiling from black > helicopters. Didn't you realise that's what it was about? Attack lawyers are more likely. Signatureemail to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com. > > And here we've been talking about ninjas abseiling from black > > helicopters. Didn't you realise that's what it was about? > > Attack lawyers are more likely. They take on all forms- nobody expects Ninjas. SignaturePeter > > > And here we've been talking about ninjas abseiling from black > > > helicopters. Didn't you realise that's what it was about? > > > > Attack lawyers are more likely. > > They take on all forms- nobody expects Ninjas. No, Nobody expects the Spa + + + NO CARRIER + + + > > > Attack lawyers are more likely. > > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > + + + NO CARRIER + + + Well they do use comfy black helicopters. SignaturePeter > > > And here we've been talking about ninjas abseiling from black > > > helicopters. Didn't you realise that's what it was about? > > > > Attack lawyers are more likely. > > They take on all forms- nobody expects Ninjas. Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm expecting naked ninjas. -z- SignatureNo 3G. Fewer megapixels than an N95. Lame. > Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm expecting naked ninjas. Smoking or non smnoking? SignaturePeter >> Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm expecting naked ninjas. > > Smoking or non smnoking? Surely that depends on the relevant activity... SignatureDavid Kennedy http://www.anindianinexile.com > > Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm expecting naked ninjas. > > Smoking or non smnoking? Non smoking preferred. -z- SignatureNo 3G. Fewer megapixels than an N95. Lame. >>> My understanding is that no software manufacturer has ever tried to >>> enforce its licence in a court of law. >> >> Would you _really_ like to be the test case? > > Frankly, that's irrelevant. MS would have to find me first. Windoze phones home unless you turn off the updater service. And even if you do that, you still need to run Windoze Genuine Spyware if you want to update the bug-ridden thing so that it can _pretend_ to be secure. Genuine Spyware will let Mickeysoft know all kinds of things about your system. If Monkey Boy wants to know where you are, he can find out. Signatureemail to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com. > Let's just say that Mickeysoft cannot stop you, though they wish they could. > However, just because they can't stop you doesn't mean that they must help > you. They won't. > > Use at your own risk. Well if Microsoft support (or lack of it) is the only problem I can't say it seems much risk to me. I would only be using it to run one or perhaps two applications. Why would I need any support? SignatureMike Lane (UK North Yorkshire) To contact me replace invalid with mike underscore lane > Is it possible (and legal) to use this OEM version to instal Windows on a Mac > with Boot Camp, or does one have to use the full consumer version for about 3 > times this price? Are there any other snags? The licensing issues have been dealt with elsewhere in this thread, The major snag with the OEM version is that it tracks hardware changes once installed. If you make enough changes to the system it will need to be reactivated to get it working again. The algorithm for detecting hardware changes weights components differently, with the amount of memory and type of video adaptor weighted lowly, and the network adaptor weighted highly. The system does allow you to re-install the system over and over again as long as the hardware is the same as that when initially activated, and can cope with some components such as a video adaptor being constantly swapped. I believe that even the processor serial number is tracked. Motherboard swaps, or moving the hard drive from one machine to another usually can't be done unless the hardware is very similar. The corporate volume licensed version of XP doesn't have these problems. You don't even need to activate it to get it working, but just need to supply a valid 25-character activation key. >The major snag with the OEM version is that it tracks hardware changes >once installed. If you make enough changes to the system it will need [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >The corporate volume licensed version of XP doesn't have these >problems. Why are they 'problems' Paul, aren't they just how M$ do their licensing? I must have installed XP 100's of times and it's never 'not worked', all be it sometimes I've had to make a simple (if not instant) free phone call to their automated registration bot (as you mentioned). And this includes installing a generic OEM copy of XP on pre registered machines (where the owner has lost their CD's etc) and where it has been a completely new machine and the only bit carried over was the licence sticker (that can be peeled and replaced on the new PC with the aid of a hairdryer). AFAIC, as long as there is a licence sticker somewhere and the OS isn't installed on another machine it's cocha. ;-) All the best .. T i m p.s. Did I understand that you can change major rated components as long as you do them after one month of other major changes? FWIW, outside of a complete rebuild / re-install I can't remember the last time I had to re-register after swapping something out or upgrading. >> Is it possible (and legal) to use this OEM version to instal Windows on a Mac >> with Boot Camp, or does one have to use the full consumer version for about 3 [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >once installed. If you make enough changes to the system it will need >to be reactivated to get it working again. Innerestingly, both VMware and Parallels can run a Bootcamp XP in a virtual machine *without* triggering reactivation - despite changing everything except the CPU type, in effect. One wonders how they do that, and also if installing eg VMware Tools on a non-VM machine would give immunity from tripping over hardware changes. Cheers - Jaimie Signature"The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man." - George Bernard Shaw > I notice one can buy an OEM version of Windows XP from places like Amazon for > around £60. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Mike Lane (UK North Yorkshire) > To contact me replace invalid with mike underscore lane Useful artical about buying OEM Windows on Arstechnica: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070130-8730.html There are (or were) some restrictions with which versions of Vista could be used with a virtual machine. Bootcamp isn't really a virtual machine though is it? > There are (or were) some restrictions with which versions of Vista > could be used with a virtual machine. Bootcamp isn't really a virtual > machine though is it? BootCamp isn't a virtual machine *at all*. Cheers, Chris > > There are (or were) some restrictions with which versions of Vista > > could be used with a virtual machine. Bootcamp isn't really a virtual [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Chris That's what I thought. Being a PowerBook user, I haven't experienced Bootcamp at all, so know little about it, other than what I read on the net. >> > There are (or were) some restrictions with which versions of Vista >> > could be used with a virtual machine. Bootcamp isn't really a virtual [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Bootcamp at all, so know little about it, other than what I read on >the net. It's just a tool to repartition a disk and fake enough of a BIOS to get Windows to install on it, plus a set of Windows drivers. The BIOS bit might be down to the EFI firmware actually, I'm not sure. The only point of confusion is that both VMware and Parallels can run a Bootcamp installed Windows in a virtual machine (with some restrictions which a pure VM wouldn't have). So it's a floor wax *and* a desert topping. The limitation that you can't pause the Bootcamp'ed machine and close the VM software is due to the VM not trusting you. You *might* reboot into the paused machine, which would confuse things mightily when you tried to unpause it later, as the VM'ed OS would be all wrong about the disk contents etc. But I wish there was a checkbox saying "Honest, I'll take responsibility for my own stupidity". Cheers - Jaimie SignatureThere are no normal people--only people you don't know very much about. -- Nancy Lebovitz, rasfw > The limitation that you can't pause the Bootcamp'ed machine and close > the VM software is due to the VM not trusting you. You *might* reboot > into the paused machine, which would confuse things mightily when you > tried to unpause it later, as the VM'ed OS would be all wrong about > the disk contents etc. But I wish there was a checkbox saying "Honest, > I'll take responsibility for my own stupidity". There's supposedly some changes in Leopard which will make rebooting into Boot Camp suspend Leopard to disk first and unsuspend it afterwards, which would be a bit better (faster?) than a plain reboot. Cheers, Chris >> The limitation that you can't pause the Bootcamp'ed machine and close >> the VM software is due to the VM not trusting you. You *might* reboot [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >into Boot Camp suspend Leopard to disk first and unsuspend it >afterwards, which would be a bit better (faster?) than a plain reboot. Neat, but no use for my usage pattern. I have a bootcamped partition on my MacBook to do latency-sensitive stuff (updating the firmware on my mobile phones, mostly!) and play the odd Windows game while out travelling, but mostly to run my newsreader in under VMWare like wot I am now. Cheers - Jaimie Signature"What happens if a big asteroid hits Earth? Judging from realistic simulations involving a sledgehammer and a common laboratory frog, we can assume it will be pretty bad." - Dave Barry |
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