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Mac Forum / Programming / Perl / May 2006Storable problem on Intel Mac Mini
Hi all - I just installed an Intel Mac Mini as a replacement for a dual 1.8 GHz G5 at my colocation place a couple days ago. All seems to be going fine with one exception so far. This error is showing up in my web error logs: [Thu May 11 19:21:18 2006] [error] [client 67.155.17.98] Byte order is not compatible at blib/lib/Storable.pm (autosplit into blib/lib/auto/Storable/_retrieve.al) line 331, <DATA> line 4, at /Library/Tenon/WebServer/WebSites/blosxom/plugins/calendar line 322, referer: http://www.customvisuals.com/ This is from the blosxom weblog program, so it was a simple matter of just turning off the calendar function for now. However, the issue with Storable.pm still remains. Has anyone run into this? Mike Schienle Yeah, any time you use Storable to move data from a big-endian machine to a little-endian machine, or vice versa, you need to use "network" format, i.e. the nstore() or nstore_fd() functions. The only way I know of to convert the existing files you've got is to find a G5 or another "old-world" mac and do a retrieve() & nstore() cycle on the data. -Ken > Hi all - > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Mike Schienle > Yeah, any time you use Storable to move data from a big-endian > machine to a little-endian machine, or vice versa, you need to use [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > find a G5 or another "old-world" mac and do a retrieve() & nstore() > cycle on the data. Thanks, Ken. I've got a couple of those hanging around and will check it out. Much appreciated. >> Hi all - >> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >> >> Mike Schienle Mike Schienle > Hi all - > > I just installed an Intel Mac Mini as a replacement for a dual 1.8 GHz > G5 at > my colocation place a couple days ago. Can I ask a silly question in public, or would off-list be more appropriate? Am 12.05.2006 um 13:05 schrieb Joel Rees: >> Hi all - >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Can I ask a silly question in public, or would off-list be more > appropriate? There are no silly questions only stupid answeres. ;) Manfred > > I just installed an Intel Mac Mini as a replacement for a dual 1.8 > > GHz G5 at my colocation place a couple days ago. > > Can I ask a silly question in public, or would off-list be more > appropriate? Onlist, please -- if your question is my question, we might both be fascinated by the answer... :-)  SignatureChris Devers DO NOT LEAVE IT IS NOT REAL >> Hi all - >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Can I ask a silly question in public, or would off-list be more > appropriate? I thought that would raise an eyebrow :-) The G5 began having stability problems. It would stop authenticating users (email, ftp, logins, etc. would fail, but web server would continue) after anywhere from 2 to 24 hours. I have two internal disks, 80 GB for OS and 250 GB for DB and web sites, and two external disks that are essentially backups for the internals (all 7200 RPM). I ran disk checks on all of them. I cloned internals to externals one at a time and had the exact same issues. After many attempts to hunt down the root cause (from launchd to securityd and a few other areas), it was time for stabs in the dark. I replaced the OS on the external, which was an upgrade from 10.3.x to a fresh install of 10.4. That actually made things worse, it went from failing to authenticate to complete lockups within a few minutes, so back to the original setup thanks to being able to shuffle things around with the spare disks. The next attempt was to start swapping/rotating RAM modules (I had recently gone from 1.25 GB to 4 GB), to see if one was flaky. No change. The current guess is a problem with the power supply. At this point I just needed to put something stable in place and fix the problem behind the scenes. As soon as that happens I expect to put the G5 back. I'm definitely happy with the Intel (dual core) Mac Mini so far. Database access is about 15% slower for a couple long queries (20+ minutes), which I'm assuming is because they went from a FW800 attachment to FW400, though it might be because of the internal Mac Mini disk being a 5400 RPM laptop drive. The mysql executable is on the internal drive, but the data lives on the external drive. I'd appreciate some thoughts on that. The Mini has 2 GB RAM, the G5 had 4 GB, though the speed of the long queries was the same with 1.25 GB, 2 GB or 4 GB on the G5. I don't have any real benchmarks other than the long DB queries. Overall, it feels faster than the G5. It serves up CGI's and pages, processes files, runs programs, etc. as fast as the G5. Mike Schienle >>> Hi all - >>> [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > The mysql executable is on the internal drive, but the data lives on the > external drive. Actually, the data was on the internal 250 GB disk on the G5, rather than the external FW800 drive. Now it's on the external 250 GB disk attached via FW400. The query uses about 30 fields from 8 joined tables to pull out 200 KB from 19 GB. Mike Schienle >>>> Hi all - >>>> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> >> I thought that would raise an eyebrow :-) Heh. Some trolls, at any rate, are not evil. >> The G5 began having stability problems. It would stop authenticating >> users >> (email, ftp, logins, etc. would fail, but web server would continue) >> after >> anywhere from 2 to 24 hours. My instant reaction to that would have been putting a stripped-down whitebox running OpenBSD as a logging firewall between the G5 and the 'net, to check for attacks on the mail and ftp subsystems. Attempts to install a trojan for the wrong processor might have been causing DOS on the attacked services? (I should check whether OpenBSD has drivers for IP over firewire or for the USB to ethernet converters. If so, a Mini might do as well as a whitebox with two NICs.) >> I have two internal disks, 80 GB for OS and 250 >> GB for DB and web sites, and two external disks that are essentially [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >> being >> able to shuffle things around with the spare disks. Could be an unrelated problem? >> The next attempt was to start swapping/rotating RAM modules (I had >> recently [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> soon as >> that happens I expect to put the G5 back. And here I was thinking that someone in your organization had requested the G5 for the art department. ;:-/ Another swag might be the CPU or the heat sink? >> I'm definitely happy with the Intel (dual core) Mac Mini so far. >> Database [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >> the >> external drive. Yeah, the notebook grade disk will slow the thing down, about 15% would not be unexpected. RAM reduction will tend to have more drastic effects when it has effects. I'm not familiar enough with FW400 to hazard a guess, although I have a gut feeling the difference is not that big unless there's constant bulk (>100MB) raw data motion. 20 minutes is a long query, indeed. I'd be tempted, once you have the G5 back up, to keep the Mini on-line and run the DB on the one and the web server on the other. > Actually, the data was on the internal 250 GB disk on the G5, rather > than the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Mike Schienle One reason I was interested, if you were planning to keep the Mini on line, I'd be interested in what strategies you have for wear and tear, my experience being that notebook-grade disks running full-time tend to burn out after about a year. I have my personal web site on my old clamshell iBook, and it runs a dynamic DNS client every ten minutes via cron. That basically keeps the disk spinning constantly. Burned out a drive last year, and I'm worried it will burn out a drive this year. So I'm thinking of putting the client on a RAM disk, although, since I wrote the client in perl, I suspect that I'd then have to copy perl itself to the RAM disk as well. Another thought would be, since I really don't need it to run exactly at a specific time, to simply keep the client process running in a sleep loop. > My instant reaction to that would have been putting a stripped-down > whitebox running OpenBSD as a logging firewall between the G5 and > the 'net, to check for attacks on the mail and ftp subsystems. Can you tell me what a whitebox is? > I have my personal web site on my old clamshell iBook, and it runs > a dynamic DNS client every ten minutes via cron. That basically [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > client in perl, I suspect that I'd then have to copy perl itself to > the RAM disk as well. RAM disks are so cheap now. I saw a 64MB USB on google for $8.97. Joe. > > My instant reaction to that would have been putting a stripped-down > > whitebox running OpenBSD as a logging firewall between the G5 and > > the 'net, to check for attacks on the mail and ftp subsystems. > > Can you tell me what a whitebox is? Generic cheapo x86 computer. Possibly home-built from scrap parts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitebox_computer > > I have my personal web site on my old clamshell iBook, and it runs a > > dynamic DNS client every ten minutes via cron. That basically keeps [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > RAM disks are so cheap now. I saw a 64MB USB on google for $8.97. Tht's a flash RAM devive, not a RAM disk. Different thing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAM_drive SignatureChris Devers DO NOT LEAVE IT IS NOT REAL >>> I have my personal web site on my old clamshell iBook, and it runs a >>> dynamic DNS client every ten minutes via cron. That basically keeps [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Tht's a flash RAM devive, not a RAM disk. Different thing. Hi Chris, Why wouldn't it work to put the client code and perl on the USB keydrive and then every ten minutes, your system will get it from there instead of from your hard drive? I realize the USB keydrive is slower to load, but does that matter here? Joe. > Why wouldn't it work to put the client code and perl on the USB > keydrive and then every ten minutes, your system will get it from > there instead of from your hard drive? I realize the USB keydrive is > slower to load, but does that matter here? I don't see any reason at all that one couldn't do this. I was only pointing out that a RAM drive is a different thing :-) SignatureChris Devers DO NOT LEAVE IT IS NOT REAL >>>> I have my personal web site on my old clamshell iBook, and it runs a >>>> dynamic DNS client every ten minutes via cron. That basically keeps [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > there instead of from your hard drive? I realize the USB keydrive is > slower to load, but does that matter here? Definitely a thought. I only write the log and the file that keeps the actual when the IP actually gets updated, so that wouldn't mess with anything. Unfortunately, this is one of the models that only has one USB port and no firewire, so the USB port is also where I hang the drive I back up to. If I'm going to buy a USB hub for this rig, I think I'd rather splurge and pick up a full complement of RAM. Powering the USB hub would add another wall wart, three more physical points of favor. Japanese apartments at rent I can afford do not offer much space that is protected, so I'm not just being paranoid. On the other hand, personal web servers can go off line for long enough to slip a hub in and then off line again to slip the hub out when the backup is done, without the world coming to a stop, Definitely a thought. >> Hi Chris, >> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > do not offer much space that is protected, so I'm not just being > paranoid. I have an old USB 1.1 1 to 4 hub that doesn't need power. I bought it for $4 about 2 years ago and never used it. It's yours if you want it, though I'm not going to ship it to Japan. > On the other hand, personal web servers can go off line for long > enough to slip a hub in and then off line again to slip the hub out > when the backup is done, without the world coming to a stop, > > Definitely a thought. >>>>> Hi all - >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > install a trojan for the wrong processor might have been causing DOS on > the attacked services? I can't rule anything out since I haven't nailed the solution yet. There were the occasional attempts at breaking in, but nothing concerted and none of the attempts succeeded or corresponded to the problem times. One thing that seems odd to me is that if I did a lot of things either interactively or via cron that continued to authenticate, such as ssh and ftp, it would typically stay up longer than if I let it just idle. It wasn't consistent though. It could stay up for 24 hours, an hour, or anywhere in between, but it tended toward the longer time frame. I'm not completely convinced this is a hardware issue, but the colocation guys and a couple other folks who play with hardware and systems often enough have said that it appears to be RAM or PSU. We eliminated the RAM issue last week. > (I should check whether OpenBSD has drivers for IP over firewire or for > the USB to ethernet converters. If so, a Mini might do as well as a > whitebox with two NICs.) >>> That >>> actually made things worse, it went from failing to authenticate to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Could be an unrelated problem? A definite maybe. My wife is a massage therapist and has "gifted" hands. She's cured a couple printers and some bike computers in her time, not to mention several hundred backs and shoulders. Unfortunately, the G5 went from the colo in Dallas, flew home to Chicago, and is now with me in Maine after a couple days of driving, without ever getting out of the box for her to lay hands on it. I have a new gig here in Maine starting Monday, the original message in this thread was from an undisclosed/unknown location in Ohio. >>> As >>> soon as >>> that happens I expect to put the G5 back. > > And here I was thinking that someone in your organization had requested > the G5 for the art department. ;:-/ Well, the organization consists of my wife and I. No recent requests have come through, other than "replace that POS with something we don't have to worry about." This was after a week or so of wondering what the hell was going on and a couple weeks of actively trying to solve it. I feel like I bet the farm when I picked up the Mini. That could have gone wrong so many different ways, but has worked out fine so far. > Another swag might be the CPU or the heat sink? Thanks. I'll add those to the dart board. > Yeah, the notebook grade disk will slow the thing down, about 15% would > not be unexpected. RAM reduction will tend to have more drastic effects [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > G5 back up, to keep the Mini on-line and run the DB on the one and the > web server on the other. One of the things that squelches that temptation is the colocation fee for a 2nd system, but yeah, that would be nice. Regarding the query length, I've done what I can with setting up indexes, but I haven't studied MySQL's plan for it. The application finished up about the same time this problem showed up (the authentication problem still occurs whether this program runs or not, and predates the program by a couple weeks). I'm sure I'll find a couple things in there to speed it up, hopefully in a big way. At the moment, it just gets kicked off at dawn, so there's no real time rush, but it's always nice to have an optimal solution. > One reason I was interested, if you were planning to keep the Mini on > line, I'd be interested in what strategies you have for wear and tear, > my experience being that notebook-grade disks running full-time tend to > burn out after about a year. Without really giving it much thought, I just considered the Mini "not a server" and didn't want to leave it there indefinitely. As far as the disk life is concerned, the only strategy I have is keeping the external 80 GB disk there as a backup if the internal should go tango uniform. The external 250 GB has no local backup, but does get Retrospect'ed every night across the net. I should hedge the shipping expenses by investing in FedEx this year. I can give the colo folks another giggle and send out my 40 GB iPod Photo as a backup drive. > I have my personal web site on my old clamshell iBook, and it runs a > dynamic DNS client every ten minutes via cron. That basically keeps the [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > at a specific time, to simply keep the client process running in a > sleep loop. Sounds entertaining. My old Pismo burned out a drive about two years ago. I had purchased a 60 GB drive to replace the original 12 GB one. I got just under three years out of it, which was the warranty length, so I got a new one. A couple months later I gave the Pismo to the local school district. I tossed the 12 GB disk back in and it worked fine. The 60 GB disk lives on in a portable enclosure on my G4 Powerbook. I basically keep the iLife stuff on it, since that's not a major use for me, but takes up a lot of disk space. Oh yeah, we have a G4/800 iMac that lost its drive about the same time all of the server stuff was happening. I still need to get a drive for it. Maybe on the next trip back home. Mike Schienle >> Hi all - >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Can I ask a silly question in public, or would off-list be more > appropriate? Apparently you can! =) -Ken |
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