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Mac Forum / General / Networking / February 2006Airport Extreme or Airport Express?
As I understand it, the differences between the Airport Extreme base station and Airport Express, other than size and weight, are: Extreme has two ethernet ports; Express has only one. Extreme has a built-in modem. Extreme has an antenna jack. Express has audio out. This means that I can't connect a ethernet printer to Airport Express, but can to Airport Extreme. However, I can connect a USB printer to either of them. The Extreme's modem is a non-issue for me unless it can be used as a FAX modem. Nor is the antenna jack; the distances are such that I won't need it. Are there any other differences between the two that I need to know? Is there any reason to spend the extra money for the Airport Extreme instead of buying the Airport Express?  SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. > This means that I can't connect a ethernet printer to Airport Express, > but can to Airport Extreme. However, I can connect a USB printer to > either of them. Yep. Although if you already have a wired router, you can plug the ethernet printer and the Airport Express into it. I'd suggest disabling the DHCP server on the Express, and letting the wired router do the addresses. > The Extreme's modem is a non-issue for me unless it can be used as a FAX > modem. My understanding is that it *can't* be used as a fax server. Pity; that would have been a really neat feature to include. > Is there any reason to spend the extra money for the Airport Extreme > instead of buying the Airport Express? The Express is (according to Apple, anyway) limited to 10 simultaneous clients, while the Extreme can handle 50. My household usually tops out at 2, so it's not really an issue for me. I own an Airport Express and an inexpensive Motorola 802.11g router with 4 wired ports. (It cost me $8 after rebates from CompUSA, and has give me no issues. [It replaced a D-Link DI-514, which was a piece of garbage.]) I use the Motorola as my main router, and have the Express plugged into my stereo, set to "Join" my existing wireless network to stream music. When I want to go on the road, I just switch the Express back to being a base station, and bring it with me. That way, it doesn't disturb my existing network at all. Honestly, if I didn't want a portable base station nor iTunes music streaming, I wouldn't have gotten the Apple base station, simply because of the price. But if you *do* use the music streaming, as I do, it's wonderful being able to send it across the room without wires. It makes iTunes that much more useful, as your music and other sounds come out of completely separate audio sources. Very neat. SignatureGarner R. Miller Clifton Park, NY =USA= http://www.garnermiller.com/ > > This means that I can't connect a ethernet printer to Airport > > Express, but can to Airport Extreme. However, I can connect a USB [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > disabling the DHCP server on the Express, and letting the wired > router do the addresses. I do have one, but if I do get a wireless router, I'd take the wired router off line. > The Express is (according to Apple, anyway) limited to 10 > simultaneous clients, while the Extreme can handle 50. My household > usually tops out at 2, so it's not really an issue for me. Ditto. I'll have to look into the Motorola (and maybe some other brands as well) router if I decide to go wireless. Both of us just got new iMacs with built-in Airport, so I was thinking about reducing the clutter of wires in the house--and being able to let house guests use the wireless as well if they have their laptops with them. My printer can be connected via USB or ethernet; right now, it's using an ethernet connector so we can both access it without having to use one of the computers as a print server. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. [...] > if I do get a wireless router, I'd take the wired > router off line. [...] > I'll have to look into the Motorola (and maybe some other brands as > well) router if I decide to go wireless. An issue to watch out for with third-party routers is that usually you access their configuration interface through a Web browser and they tend to build those Web pages like real Web pages: without regards for relevant standards. They may work (as in "be usable") with other browsers, but vendors don't seem to think it's important to build robust standards-compliant Web interfaces for these things. (My solution for that is to only buy one after the shop has guaranteed that I can return it if it doesn't work with Safari.) Having said that, I recently configured a LinkSys WRT54G with iCab 3.0 without any problem. [...] > My printer can be connected via USB or ethernet; right now, it's using > an ethernet connector so we can both access it without having to use one > of the computers as a print server. You can continue to do that if you keep your wired router and use the AirportExpress as a bridge (have it not do NAT). SignatureSander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/~tekelenb/> Mac user: "Macs only have 40 viruses, tops!" PC user: "SEE! Not even the virus writers support Macs!" > An issue to watch out for with third-party routers is that usually you > access their configuration interface through a Web browser and they tend [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Having said that, I recently configured a LinkSys WRT54G with iCab 3.0 > without any problem. Probably because of the disenchantment with Internet Explorer, wireless manufacturers have made sure that the web servers in their products are compatible with other web browsers. AFAIK, all the current consumer wireless routers can be configured and flashed with an up-to-date Mac web browser. > Both of us just got new iMacs with built-in Airport, so I was thinking > about reducing the clutter of wires in the house--and being able to let > house guests use the wireless as well if they have their laptops with > them. Once you've done it, you will love it -- you'll never understand how you lived without it. We paid big bucks to run Cat 5 all through our house, just before we got IBooks with built-in Airport. Now the wiring sits unused. Of course, not everyone wants to take their laptop to the family dinner table -- or sit in the living room evenings, mother, father, daughter, each on their own laptop (though it's certainly better than all of us sitting there watching TV). > > Both of us just got new iMacs with built-in Airport, so I was > > thinking about reducing the clutter of wires in the house--and [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > daughter, each on their own laptop (though it's certainly better than > all of us sitting there watching TV). Well, both of our computers are desktops--Intel iMacs. But we periodically have house guests who bring their laptops with them. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. > > > Both of us just got new iMacs with built-in Airport, so I was > > > thinking about reducing the clutter of wires in the house--and [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Well, both of our computers are desktops--Intel iMacs. But we > periodically have house guests who bring their laptops with them. Looks like a match made in Hades. > > Well, both of our computers are desktops--Intel iMacs. But we > > periodically have house guests who bring their laptops with them. > > Looks like a match made in Hades. I'm sure that you are well acquainted with Hades. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. > I'll have to look into the Motorola (and maybe some other brands as > well) router if I decide to go wireless. Michelle, I have a LInksys WRT54GC wireless and it works like a charm throughout my house, routinely serving two Macs. It is about the size of a pack of cigarettes and cost around $75. Jim SignatureJames L. Ryan -- TaliesinSoft > I have a LInksys WRT54GC wireless and it works like a charm throughout my > house, routinely serving two Macs. It is about the size of a pack of > cigarettes and cost around $75. For portable use, I have a WTR54GS Travel Router from LinkSys, which has all the usual stuff and can create a new network from an unencrypted 802.11b/g feed. In addition, it has both an ethernet WAN port and an ethernet LAN port, so I can create a wireless lan bubble whereever there's a PC with an ethernet port using the builtin NAT and DHCP server. Finally, this puppy is about the size of a pack of cigarettes, and has a slide swich which causes 110v prongs to appear for power. It has all the usual LinkSys stuff (including enterprise WPA2), as well as SpeedBooster (which I don't and can't use). Strictly for portable use only - not much of an antenna and it gets warm in operation. > > The Extreme's modem is a non-issue for me unless it can be used as a FAX > > modem. > > My understanding is that it *can't* be used as a fax server. Pity; > that would have been a really neat feature to include. And why didn't Apple do it? Why is fax capability not a standard on the latest Mac machines? Why drive users to other companies' hardware and software? That doesn't make sense to me. > > My understanding is that [the Airport Extreme] *can't* be used as a > > fax server. Pity; that would have been a really neat feature to > > include. > > > And why didn't Apple do it? A better question is, why are you digging up messages over a month old, just to take jabs at Apple? To answer your question, they didn't do it because there's very little market for it. When you have a specific R&D budget, you use it on things lots of people will actually want to do. If it's the choice between giving the Airport WPA2 security or a fax server, I'm glad they chose to spend their effort on security -- something worthwhile. > Why is fax capability not a standard on the latest Mac machines? See above. Modems were dropped in favor of faster Ethernet the same way that floppy disks were dropped in favor of CD burners. Fax is a dead technology in all but a few niche applications, and for that, you can buy an add-on modem. I have a ~4-year old iMac G4, and I haven't used the modem in it for *anything*. I receive the occasional fax through my *free* efax.com account, and I do my internet through broadband. All it's doing is taking up space that would be better used for another USB port, frankly. SignatureGarner R. Miller Clifton Park, NY =USA= http://www.garnermiller.com/ >>> My understanding is that [the Airport Extreme] *can't* be used as a >>> fax server. Pity; that would have been a really neat feature to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > A better question is, why are you digging up messages over a month old, > just to take jabs at Apple? Because he's John Wolf hiding behind a free server in Denmark. Look at the threads he's replying to, and who he's attacking. Signatureemail to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com. > Because he's John Wolf hiding behind a free server in Denmark. Look at the > threads he's replying to, and who he's attacking. AHHHHH! I should know better by now... Thanks for the reality check. :D > > Because he's John Wolf hiding behind a free server in Denmark. Look at the > > threads he's replying to, and who he's attacking. > > AHHHHH! I should know better by now... Thanks for the reality check. > :D Hey, butthead, who is John Wolf anyway? If you're going to diss my reality check posts by accusing me of being someone I'm not, at least let me know who he is - oh, I get it, check the archives? >>> Because he's John Wolf hiding behind a free server in Denmark. Look at the >>> threads he's replying to, and who he's attacking. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > reality check posts by accusing me of being someone I'm not, at least > let me know who he is - oh, I get it, check the archives? He is you. Signatureemail to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com. > >>> Because he's John Wolf hiding behind a free server in Denmark. Look at > >>> the [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > He is you. I'm getting a big kick out of your misinformation. I wouldn't keep responding to you if I were he, but, if he is an "idiot" as you say, maybe that's exactly what he would do. > Hey, butthead, who is John Wolf anyway? If you're going to diss my > reality check posts by accusing me of being someone I'm not, at least > let me know who he is - oh, I get it, check the archives? Yes, do a Google Groups search, but since he's posted under 50+ combinations of names and addresses, you'll need this handy guide: http://macconsult.com/identities/ SignatureMike Rosenberg <http://www.macconsult.com> Macintosh consulting services for NE Florida <http://www.cafepress.com/macconsult,macconsult4> Mac-themed T-shirts <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart > http://macconsult.com/identities/ Thanks, Mike, you've been most helpful and this is even beginning to be a little bit of fun. > > Hey, butthead, who is John Wolf anyway? If you're going to diss my > > reality check posts by accusing me of being someone I'm not, at least [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > http://macconsult.com/identities/ Or, perhaps, I should be alarmed that "Big Brother" is watching us, even using a Macintosh! Although, I re-emphasize that I am not the Wolf man. > Although, I re-emphasize that I am not the Wolf man. You'll notice that you're _not_ on that list. SignatureMike Rosenberg <http://www.macconsult.com> Macintosh consulting services for NE Florida <http://www.cafepress.com/macconsult,macconsult4> Mac-themed T-shirts <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart >> Although, I re-emphasize that I am not the Wolf man. > > You'll notice that you're _not_ on that list. He seems to be slightly smarter than John-boy. Maybe he isn't the Floppy King. Maybe. I've made mistakes before, this could be another one. I _still_ want to see what was 'anti-Christian' about my post. Signatureemail to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com. > >>> My understanding is that [the Airport Extreme] *can't* be used as a > >>> fax server. Pity; that would have been a really neat feature to [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Because he's John Wolf hiding behind a free server in Denmark. Look at the > threads he's replying to, and who he's attacking. I'm not John Wolf and I don't even know who he is. I came here with a legitimate problem, made some posts and began to be attacked because I was an idiot who dared to question the motives and the choices being made by "the Big Apple," because I live in the boonies and because I still use a 56K and a dialup line. Affluent elitist technocrats who have to have the latest technology have a bias against those who don't have it, can't afford it or don't want it. Apple supports this mind set and is influencing the "younger generation" of users to adopt it. >>>>> My understanding is that [the Airport Extreme] *can't* be used as a >>>>> fax server. Pity; that would have been a really neat feature to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I'm not John Wolf and I don't even know who he is. Bullshit. > I came here with a > legitimate problem, made some posts and began to be attacked because I Bullshit. For example, the very first post from 'hep me' which I ever read was message id <hepme-AD7EAF.17415724022006@sunsite.dk> in which you, out of a clear blue sky, attacked me. > was an idiot who dared to question the motives and the choices being > made by "the Big Apple," because I live in the boonies and because I > still use a 56K and a dialup line. Affluent elitist technocrats who have > to have the latest technology have a bias against those who don't have > it, can't afford it or don't want it. Apple supports this mind set and > is influencing the "younger generation" of users to adopt it. Cool. Sell your Mac. Signatureemail to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com. > Bullshit. For example, the very first post from 'hep me' which I ever read > was message id <hepme-AD7EAF.17415724022006@sunsite.dk> in which you, out of > a clear blue sky, attacked me. You haven't read all my posts - look back before you make false accusations out of paranoia. >> Bullshit. For example, the very first post from 'hep me' which I ever read >> was message id <hepme-AD7EAF.17415724022006@sunsite.dk> in which you, out [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You haven't read all my posts - look back before you make false > accusations out of paranoia. Yeah. Right. The same way you deduced 'anti-Christian bias' from out of a clear blue sky, eh? Bite me, fundie. Signatureemail to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com. > Bite me, fundie. I smell a bumper sticker! > > Bite me, fundie. > > I smell a bumper sticker! Oh, what does it smell like? Cinnamon? Garlic? Incense? SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. > > > Bite me, fundie. > > > > I smell a bumper sticker! > > Oh, what does it smell like? Cinnamon? Garlic? Incense? Napalm? >>>Bite me, fundie. >> >>I smell a bumper sticker! > > Oh, what does it smell like? Cinnamon? Garlic? Incense? Burning wool and hair. Or brimstone. \ \ SignatureJohn McWilliams > I'm not John Wolf and I don't even know who he is. I came here with > a legitimate problem, made some posts and began to be attacked > because I was an idiot who dared to question the motives and the > choices being made by "the Big Apple," because I live in the boonies > and because I still use a 56K and a dialup line. Bullshit! You came here with a problem, and received polite answers. You didn't like those answers, and got abusive. People around here don't put up with sh.t like yours, so they reacted accordingly. So now you're playing the victim, just like most other two-bit bullies. We'll you're not in the schoolyard any more, and you're out of your league. "Whaahh! Mommy, they're hitting me back. Make them stop!!!" SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. > I came here with a legitimate problem Okay, we agree up to this point. Now, why exactly is it that don't deal directly with that problem by bringing the modem back to the store and having them exchange it or test it on another Mac? SignatureMike Rosenberg <http://www.macconsult.com> Macintosh consulting services for NE Florida <http://www.cafepress.com/macconsult,macconsult4> Mac-themed T-shirts <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart > > I came here with a legitimate problem > > Okay, we agree up to this point. Now, why exactly is it that don't deal > directly with that problem by bringing the modem back to the store and > having them exchange it or test it on another Mac? This is on the list - the store is in another town some miles away; Rome was not built in a day; I have other things to do including coming to csmc attempting to find solutions or others with similar problems. I have found that to be mostly a waste of time, although I have enjoyed the witty repartee and learned a few things about airport in the process! > > Okay, we agree up to this point. Now, why exactly is it that don't > > deal directly with that problem by bringing the modem back to the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > coming to csmc attempting to find solutions or others with similar > problems. Well, the general opinion on the newsgroup (technically, it's not a list--and I wouldn't be surprised if some people flame you for calling it a list) is that you have a faulty product--probably the modem, but possibly the computer itself--and that the best recourse right now is to take them into the store so they can check them out. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. >>> Okay, we agree up to this point. Now, why exactly is it that don't >>> deal directly with that problem by bringing the modem back to the [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > possibly the computer itself--and that the best recourse right now is to > take them into the store so they can check them out. Actually, hep_me more than probably meant that "bringing the modem into the store" is "on the list", e.g. "his list of things to do", not that this newsgroup is a "list", rather than a "Usenet newsgroup". At least that was the understanding I got from my parsing of his grammar. SignatureDonald L McDaniel Please reply to the original thread, so that the thread may remain intact ========================================== > Actually, hep_me more than probably meant that "bringing the modem > into the store" is "on the list", e.g. "his list of things to do", > not that this newsgroup is a "list", rather than a "Usenet > newsgroup". At least that was the understanding I got from my > parsing of his grammar. I didn't read it that way, but in rereading it, I think that you're right about that. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. > A better question is, why are you digging up messages over a month old, > just to take jabs at Apple? My tech call took place yesterday dealing with the same problems, so the issue still exists. It has not been resolved and probably will not be. > To answer your question, they didn't do it because there's very little > market for it. When you have a specific R&D budget, you use it on > things lots of people will actually want to do. If it's the choice > between giving the Airport WPA2 security or a fax server, I'm glad they > chose to spend their effort on security -- something worthwhile. Worthwhile for you - many others are having problems and they are being left behind by Apple and other companies who are dropping the technology and the support for it. Fax is a > dead technology in all but a few niche applications, and for that, you > can buy an add-on modem. Fax is not dead to users who employ it regularly - and the focus of the problem is that the add-on modems available for the new Macs are not working and are causing system problems. > I have a ~4-year old iMac G4, and I haven't used the modem in it for > *anything*. I receive the occasional fax through my *free* efax.com > account, and I do my internet through broadband. All it's doing is > taking up space that would be better used for another USB port, > frankly. Good for efax.com, I'll look into it while they're still around. Great that you can afford and that you are in an area where broadband service is available. >> A better question is, why are you digging up messages over a month old, >> just to take jabs at Apple? [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > that you can afford and that you are in an area where broadband service > is available. I disabled my internal modem in the last PC I had sometime ago (I haven't used a dial-up connection since 1998), since I never used it anyway. I have yet to use the internal modem in my PowerMac G5. Probably, I should remove it and free up a slot. My brother and I both live in an EXTREMELY rural area (the closest country store/gas station is a minimum of 5 miles away). And the closest ATM is at least 7 miles away. The closest main road (a County Road) is almost a half-mile away. It isn't even black-top, but crushed rock. The driveway to my brother's house is almost 1500 feet long. It opens on to a dirt road which leads to the main road. We have a septic tank and get our water from a well, though because of Universal Electrification we do have power. Because a dial-up is totally inadequate for a two user household, my brother (with a service-connected disability) sprang for a Satellite connection (1.5mb), including all the necessary hardware (the Dish, installation, and Satellite modem). We both pay an equal share of the monthly user fee. (which amounts to about $65US/month for each of us.) About 15 miles from here, they do have local Cable (including Internet connectivity of around 3 MB/sec). However, speaking to Cable company employees out here about when the Cable will come to us has resulted in "Cable out there? Never. There are just not enough customers where you are to make it financially feasible to bring the Cable to you." DSL is, of course, totally out of the question, unless they build a Local DSLAM within 12,000 feet. ( I doubt that this will ever happen.) We are just too far from the nearest large metropolis. Heck, even the nearest small town is a minimum of 18 miles away. And that town is another 15 miles away from the nearest large metropolis. We do our shopping twice a month, in the metropolis 33 miles away. We are lucky, however, to get a trash pickup twice a month. So it really isn't hard to get broadband out here in the Boondocks, if one is committed to it. The initial outlay for the equipment and installation is the highest expense. But I personally believe that it pays dividends for us both. Currently, we use Skycasters Satellite Internet, but have every intention of changing providers as soon as our current contract runs out (maybe this summer). Skycasters contracts with Dish Network for its satellite service. Personally, I recommend Wild Blue (http://www.wildblue.com) SignatureDonald L McDaniel Please reply to the original thread, so that the thread may remain intact ========================================== ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.mac.comm.] > Extreme has two ethernet ports; Express has only one. Extreme has a > built-in modem. Extreme has an antenna jack. Express has audio out. As another poster mentioned, the Extreme also supports more connected machines. But that's unlikely to be an issue on a home network. > This means that I can't connect a ethernet printer to Airport Express, > but can to Airport Extreme. However, I can connect a USB printer to > either of them. You can certainly connect a usb printer to both, and you can't connect an ethernet printer directly to an Express. I assume you can connect an ethernet printer to an Extreme though I've never done it myself. > Nor is the antenna jack; the distances are such that I won't > need it. Keep in mind that distance isn't the only issue here. If there are, say, intervening walls, a stronger signal can also be very helpful. > Is there any reason to spend the extra money for the Airport Extreme > instead of buying the Airport Express? Not really. Otoh if you don't need AirTunes, you probably shouldn't buy an Apple wireless router/access-point at all. There are _much_ cheaper alternatives that work just as well. > ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.mac.comm.] >> Extreme has two ethernet ports; Express has only one. Extreme has a [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > an Apple wireless router/access-point at all. There are _much_ cheaper > alternatives that work just as well. I agree with DP... I recently bought a wireless router from Futureshop for 20$ after rebates. The router is a Dlink DI524. Works great, has many important features that Apple has yet implemented into their networking products. I can set up a firewall, schedule internet use, and the list goes on. I mean, why isn't Apple implementing all those features as well? Finally, their routers cost what... 5x as much ? This makes no sense to me... Just my two cents.. Sam --- Sam Arseneau iChat AV : macaddict192 [AIM] E-mail : sammy@spymac.com "What's an Intel chip doing in a Mac? A whole lot more than it's ever done in a PC". > This means that I can't connect a ethernet printer to Airport > Express, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You can certainly connect a usb printer to both, and you can't > connect an ethernet printer directly to an Express. Yup; that's what I said. Thanks for confirming it. > I assume you can connect an ethernet printer to an Extreme though > I've never done it myself. I don't see why it can't be done. > > Nor is the antenna jack; the distances are such that I won't need > > it. > > Keep in mind that distance isn't the only issue here. If there are, > say, intervening walls, a stronger signal can also be very helpful. According to Apple's spec sheets, they both have the same signal strength. > > Is there any reason to spend the extra money for the Airport > > Extreme instead of buying the Airport Express? > > Not really. Otoh if you don't need AirTunes, you probably shouldn't > buy an Apple wireless router/access-point at all. There are _much_ > cheaper alternatives that work just as well. True, but from everything I've seen and read, Airport is very reliable, and the included software makes it very easy to configure and maintain. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. >> Keep in mind that distance isn't the only issue here. If there are, >> say, intervening walls, a stronger signal can also be very helpful. > > According to Apple's spec sheets, they both have the same signal > strength. I was referring to the difference made by the added antenna on the Extreme. If an Extreme with an antenna does no better than an Express, something is definitely wrong. >> Not really. Otoh if you don't need AirTunes, you probably shouldn't >> buy an Apple wireless router/access-point at all. There are _much_ >> cheaper alternatives that work just as well. > > True, but from everything I've seen and read, Airport is very reliable, In my experience (I have two Expresses) the reliability is average. The cheap SMC that acts as my router and wireless access point is certainly more robust. > and the included software makes it very easy to configure and maintain. Matter of taste, I guess. I _much_ prefer the web-based configuration tool that runs in my SMC. Remote configuration with Airport Admin Utility is a pain in the neck imo. > > This means that I can't connect a ethernet printer to Airport > > Express, [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Yup; that's what I said. Thanks for confirming it. What a "smart-a.s!" > > > This means that I can't connect a ethernet printer to Airport > > > Express, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > What a "smart-a.s!" Better than a dumb a.s like you. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. > > > > This means that I can't connect a ethernet printer to Airport > > > > Express, [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Better than a dumb a.s like you. My IQ is 138 and I graduated summa cum laude, so your point has been refuted. > > Better than a dumb a.s like you. > > My IQ is 138 and I graduated summa cum laude, so your point has been > refuted. IQ and graduation standings do not determine whether one is a dumb a.s or not. But I wouldn't expect an elitist snob like you to understand that. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. >> Better than a dumb a.s like you. > > My IQ is 138 and I graduated summa cum laude, so your point has been > refuted. QED AC SignatureEmail: echo 142322093203359315271794620168064975321554275890186P | dc > As I understand it, the differences between the Airport Extreme base > station and Airport Express, other than size and weight, are: [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > modem. Nor is the antenna jack; the distances are such that I won't > need it. Michelle- Except for one detail, your assumptions appear to be correct. There are two versions of the Extreme: with and without the antenna jack. I have the Extreme with the jack but have never used an external antenna with it. I also have the Express. Both work as advertised, but I was disappointed to find that the Express could not be used in a client mode. Perhaps it can in WDS mode, but I haven't been able to figure out how. After playing with the Extreme and needing a second unit as a WDS client, I decided to try a much less expensive Buffalo Wireless Router. It was a discontinued model WBR-G54 on clearance. After installing the latest firmware upgrade, it seems to work perfectly with the Extreme, either as the base station or as the WDS client. It isn't as easy to configure as the Extreme, but works. The only advantage either Apple unit has for me is the USB printer port. (I tried two printers using a USB hub, but only one is recognized.) There are other brands that may work for you, all less expensive than the Apple. I chose the Buffalo because I need AppleTalk, and most other brands I tried would not pass it. Fred > Except for one detail, your assumptions appear to be correct. There > are two versions of the Extreme: with and without the antenna jack. Originally the extreme came in two models; one with the jack and modem, and one without either of them. They discontinued the one without jack and modem, though. There is another model that gets its power from ethernet, but it is available only to educational institutions. Thanks for the rest of your input. What is client mode? Is that a bridge, a range extender, or what? I wouldn't need either of those, though. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. > Thanks for the rest of your input. What is client mode? Is that a > bridge, a range extender, or what? I wouldn't need either of those, > though. Michelle- I suppose it isn't the common terminology. I think "bridge" is closest. I have three older computers with Ethernet ports but no hope of adding internal wireless cards. By client, I mean it can be connected via Ethernet and provide network connectivity. This would also apply to a USB adapter, except these older machines can't be adapted for that either. Fred ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.mac.comm.] >> Thanks for the rest of your input. What is client mode? Is that a >> bridge, a range extender, or what? I wouldn't need either of those, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I suppose it isn't the common terminology. I think "bridge" is closest. No, bridging is different. In client mode the Express is just another node on the network, no different from a laptop or desktop computer. You would use an Express in client mode if its only purpose is AirTunes and/or print server. > ["Followup-To:" header set to comp.sys.mac.comm.] > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > You would use an Express in client mode if its only purpose is AirTunes > and/or print server. D.P.- To me, the Express can act as a bridge between an existing wireless network and a printer or music system, but NOT between the wireless network and the Ethernet port on a computer. In this context, client-mode and bridge appear to mean the same thing. The printer and music system are clients being bridged to the network. I'm somewhat ignorant of the terminology, but have spent a lot of time and effort trying to find a way to provide wireless access from older machines with Ethernet ports but no hope of adding a wireless or USB card. That was the reason I bought the Airport Express, and was so disappointed to find it couldn't be made to work that way. A bridge may be the answer, but there are very few to be found in the local stores. What I do find, are game adapters. Someone else mentioned an "Aeropad Mini" that is supposed to be Macintosh compatible. I hesitate to go any further, because these adapters typically run around $100 each, regardless of brand. (Not to mention that the newer machines are not compatible with the old AppleShare!) Fred > What I do find, are game adapters. Someone else mentioned an "Aeropad > Mini" that is supposed to be Macintosh compatible. I hesitate to go any > further, because these adapters typically run around $100 each, regardless > of brand. (Not to mention that the newer machines are not compatible with > the old AppleShare!) This approach has worked well for me. I've got two of the 802.11b version of this product <http://www.dlink.com/products/?sec=1&pid=333> and I've had no troubles whatsoever; one is actually connected (through a switch) to three separate computers, and we have had no glitches. You should be able to find it for less than $100. That one I link to above goes for $54.99 (after $10 rebate) at PCMall. <http://www.pcmall.com/pcmall/shop/detail.asp?dpno=461981&adcampaign=em ail,PWBCHNINTDLINK&wt.mc_id=PWBCHNINTDLINK> I don't know about Appleshare compatibility, though. - geoff > > What I do find, are game adapters. Someone else mentioned an "Aeropad > > Mini" that is supposed to be Macintosh compatible. I hesitate to go any [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > (through a switch) to three separate computers, and we have had no > glitches. Watch out with game adapters. Most of the recent ones only bridge a single Ethernet device (one MAC address) to a wireless network. You'll find discussion of this (and of the confusing use of the term "bridge") in Google's alt.internet.wireless archives. Never assume that a non-Apple wireless device will pass AppleTalk unless you've got it in writing from the manufacturer or confirmation from reliable user reports. Unless you're using an old (pre-9) OS version on one of your networked Macs, you don't need AppleTalk for file sharing. > Never assume that a non-Apple wireless device will pass AppleTalk unless > you've got it in writing from the manufacturer or confirmation from > reliable user reports. Unless you're using an old (pre-9) OS version on > one of your networked Macs, you don't need AppleTalk for file sharing. Neill- I'm using an LC III with 32 bit addressing turned off in order to use some old software. As time has past, the need for old AppleShare has gone away because the new machines won't work with it. I'm stuck with using a floppy or Zip disk to transfer data out of the LC III, but can read CDs going the other way. I'm still using AppleTalk for printing, which is still supported under Intel 10.4.4. Another machine that does not use AppleTalk, is an IBM 486. I haven't looked into getting a wireless card for it. I don't know if any cards were made for its older bus. Fred >> > I suppose it isn't the common terminology. I think "bridge" is closest. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > To me, the Express can act as a bridge between an existing wireless > network and a printer or music system In casual English, that makes sense. But "bridge" has a specific meaning in the context of networking devices, which is after all what an Express is. An Express can be a true bridge -- but not when it's in client mode. So it's very confusing and misleading to use "bridge" for an Express that's running in client mode for AirTunes or print-serving. Like it or not, ordinary English words like "bridge" and "route" have been taken over in the networking arena. The casual meanings don't apply there. > I have the Extreme with the jack but have never used an external antenna > with it. I also have the Express. Both work as advertised, but I was > disappointed to find that the Express could not be used in a client mode. > Perhaps it can in WDS mode, but I haven't been able to figure out how. The Express' client mode only works for audio streaming (AirTunes) and USB printing. I cannot be used to connect an Ethernet device to an existing wireless network. To do that, you would have to use WDS mode, which limits you to wireless networks created by an AirPort or a few other compatible brands of base stations. > After playing with the Extreme and needing a second unit as a WDS client, > I decided to try a much less expensive Buffalo Wireless Router. It was a [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Apple. I chose the Buffalo because I need AppleTalk, and most other > brands I tried would not pass it. Note that Buffalo's current MIMO and Turbo G wireless products are no longer based on Broadcom chips like those Apple uses and will probably not do WDS with an AirPort base station. I don't now whether the current Buffalo gear passes AppleTalk. > Note that Buffalo's current MIMO and Turbo G wireless products are no > longer based on Broadcom chips like those Apple uses and will probably > not do WDS with an AirPort base station. I don't now whether the current > Buffalo gear passes AppleTalk. Neill- Your are probably right, but isn't WDS part of the 802.11g standard? If so, it should work with other chip sets as well. To get my Buffalo units to work with others in WDS mode, all the other MAC addresses had to be entered into the base station, and the base station's MAC address into the remote Buffalo units. It was definitely not as easy as setting up an Airport system! Fred > Your are probably right, but isn't WDS part of the 802.11g standard? No, it's not part of the IEEE standard. That's why it rarely works between different brands. > As I understand it, the differences between the Airport Extreme base > station and Airport Express, other than size and weight, are: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > but can to Airport Extreme. However, I can connect a USB printer to > either of them. In my experience, the Airport Extreme makes for a DHCP server. So unless you have exactly one device to add to an otherwise wireless network, you'll probably be plugging the Extreme into some other router anyway. This is a pretty good argument for getting a third party router, except none of the ones I tried were reliable. > Are there any other differences between the two that I need to know? AirTunes, which is probably useless to you. :) > Is there any reason to spend the extra money for the Airport Extreme > instead of buying the Airport Express? I have one of each, and I regret purchasing the Extreme. However, at least it was more usable than the various third party routers I tried and (mostly) returned. The Express, on the other hand, is cheap, small and (so far) flawless. SignatureSteven Fisher; sdfisher@spamcop.net > In my experience, the Airport Extreme makes for a DHCP server. So unless Whoops. Insert "lousy" between "makes for a" and "DHCP server." :) SignatureSteven Fisher; sdfisher@spamcop.net > > In my experience, the Airport Extreme makes for a DHCP server. So > > unless > > Whoops. Insert "lousy" between "makes for a" and "DHCP server." :) Why is it lousy? SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. > > > In my experience, the Airport Extreme makes for a DHCP server. So > > > unless > > > > Whoops. Insert "lousy" between "makes for a" and "DHCP server." :) > > Why is it lousy? My house network was pure chaos until I put my old Linksys up from the AirPort Extreme for the wired clients and the VoIP router. Now it's rock solid. (It's possible that was fixed with a firmware update; since my telephone relies on it, I haven't experimented with the latest firmware updates.) So in the end, I could have just got the Airport Express. SignatureSteven Fisher; sdfisher@spamcop.net > > > > In my experience, the Airport Extreme makes for a DHCP server. So > > > > unless [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > My house network was pure chaos That just raises the next question ;) SignatureSander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/~tekelenb/> Mac user: "Macs only have 40 viruses, tops!" PC user: "SEE! Not even the virus writers support Macs!" > In my experience, the Airport Extreme makes for a DHCP server. So > unless you have exactly one device to add to an otherwise wireless > network, you'll probably be plugging the Extreme into some other > router anyway. I thought they were both DHCP servers; if I were to get one, it would replace the wired router I now have. > > Are there any other differences between the two that I need to know? > > AirTunes, which is probably useless to you. :) Yeah, unless I wanted to put the printer in the AV room. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. > > > Are there any other differences between the two that I need to know? > > > > AirTunes, which is probably useless to you. :) > > Yeah, unless I wanted to put the printer in the AV room. Yes, having the AE share the printer and connect to the sound system implies the printer and sound system are together. I was fortunate in that the layout of my apartment allowed me to put the printer in my office and push the audio cable through the wall to my sound system, which happens to be on the other side of the same wall. SignatureJohn S. Heaney I don't train in Aikido to protect myself from the world, but to protect the world from me. > Yes, having the AE share the printer and connect to the sound system > implies the printer and sound system are together. I was fortunate in > that the layout of my apartment allowed me to put the printer in my > office and push the audio cable through the wall to my sound system, > which happens to be on the other side of the same wall. My AV room is on the other side of the foyer from the computer room. I could snake a wire across the attic, but that's way too much trouble. If I want to play anything from the computer in there, I'll cut a CD. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. > Extreme has two ethernet ports; Express has only one. Extreme has a > built-in modem. Extreme has an antenna jack. Express has audio out. I have both the Apple units, however unless I had a special need for one of them, I would buy a cheaper third party unit with more functions. I use a Netgear DG834g. That gives you the ADSL modem Apple lacks. Four port Ethernet hub for wired connections, plus the Wireless Access Point. Plus I think the Netgear was easier to configure (via its built in web server). It does not however have a printer connection. There are a heap of DSL/Cable modem, router, Ethernet hub, wireless access point boxes around, often at very low prices in the USA. Just check that Mac people have used the one you can most easily get, in case it has some quirks with Mac. If you are only trying to cover a confined area (I am in a small apartment) rather than a sprawling house, lack of wireless network extension provided by Airport Extreme isn't a factor. Number of connections would not normally be a factor either. Although I can see in a few years we may want to use lots more IP addresses. For instance, IP addressed cameras are getting more common, and other security devices are also starting to be IP addressed. I got the Apple Extreme back in the days when I only had a dial-up connection. So I used wifi to get dial-up. It was the only modem to wireless access point device I could find on the market (there were a few others, but no-one ever stocked them). The Airport Express was mainly for the AirTunes music connection, and for when a hotel had Ethernet in the room but not wifi (I was doing a lot of travel at the time). Signaturehttp://www.ericlindsay.com > I have both the Apple units, however unless I had a special need for > one of them, I would buy a cheaper third party unit with more > functions. I use a Netgear DG834g. That gives you the ADSL modem > Apple lacks. An ADSL modem won't do me any good; I have a cable modem connection. For some reason our sub division doesn't have DSL service. But I think that I'm going to just keep my current wired setup; both computers and the printer are in the same room, and the room itself is wired for ethernet, so all we have to do is connect those three devices with a short ethernet cable to wall jacks. (We have a 4th jack, so if a house guest wants to connect her computer, it's available for her.) SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. > (We have a 4th jack, so if a house guest wants to connect her computer, > it's available for her.) And you never ever have a "he" house guest? ;-) Sorry, couldn't resist! SignatureJames L. Ryan -- TaliesinSoft > > (We have a 4th jack, so if a house guest wants to connect her computer, > > it's available for her.) > > And you never ever have a "he" house guest? ;-) > > Sorry, couldn't resist! *chuckle* Well, in the four years we've been in the house, we've had only one male house guest--and his girlfriend was with him. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. > > I have both the Apple units, however unless I had a special need for > > one of them, I would buy a cheaper third party unit with more [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > An ADSL modem won't do me any good; I have a cable modem connection. > For some reason our sub division doesn't have DSL service. Pretty much all the companies that make ADSL boxes also a highly similar model for cable. I forgot to mention them because I don't have cable in this area. > But I think that I'm going to just keep my current wired setup; both > computers and the printer are in the same room, and the room itself is > wired for ethernet, so all we have to do is connect those three devices > with a short ethernet cable to wall jacks. (We have a 4th jack, so if a > house guest wants to connect her computer, it's available for her.) OK, so you will already have a cable modem, which either includes a router and NAT, or feeds into a router and NAT box that has Ethernet ports. That works fine. If you get either of the Apple models, you just need to set them up so they are not trying to do routing, and plug into one of your Ethernet ports. Since the Express is cheaper, and you don't really need two Ethernet ports with your setup, I'd go for the Express. If you need to expand your Ethernet cabling (for guests), you can get 4 port hubs for almost nothing. Or, if you don't need the AirTunes or the USB printer port, instead of the Express, pretty much any brand of wireless access point that other Apple users say works for them (they will be cheaper - in the USA, with discounts, really cheap). Just remember that the new wireless access point must not try to do routing (because you are already taking care of that with your existing stuff). They will all come with instructions on turning off routing. Good luck. I think you will enjoy wireless networking. Signaturehttp://www.ericlindsay.com > > But I think that I'm going to just keep my current wired setup; > > both computers and the printer are in the same room, and the room [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > router and NAT, or feeds into a router and NAT box that has Ethernet > ports. I have the latter. > That works fine. If you get either of the Apple models, you just > need to set them up so they are not trying to do routing, and plug > into one of your Ethernet ports. I'd replace the wired router completely and set up the WiFi router to handle NAT and DHCP. > Since the Express is cheaper, and you don't really need two Ethernet > ports with your setup, I'd go for the Express. The only reason I might need two Ethernet ports is to keep the printer on ethernet. The alternative is to connect the printer to the Airport's (or other brand WiFi router) USB port. I'm not sure of what tradeoffs there are between the two. > If you need to expand your Ethernet cabling (for guests), you can get > 4 port hubs for almost nothing. No need for that; any guests who bring a laptop with them will most likely have WiFi capabilities in their computer. > Or, if you don't need the AirTunes or the USB printer port, instead > of the Express, pretty much any brand of wireless access point that > other Apple users say works for them (they will be cheaper - in the > USA, with discounts, really cheap). I'll need either a second Ethernet port or a USB printer port. If I'm going to get a Wireless router, I'll be getting rid of the wired one. Otherwise, why bother with the wireless? And these new iMacs are light enough that we can move them around the house if we wish (so long as they're near an electrical outlet). > Good luck. I think you will enjoy wireless networking. Thanks. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. > But I think that I'm going to just keep my current wired setup; both > computers and the printer are in the same room, and the room itself is > wired for ethernet, so all we have to do is connect those three devices > with a short ethernet cable to wall jacks. (We have a 4th jack, so if a > house guest wants to connect her computer, it's available for her.) Are all of your guests women or do you just apply the feminist-approved female pronoun? Who cares about your elitist lifestyle and how your computer system fits the decor? And no one of any intelligence cares about your political opinions so obviously blared out on your icon and signature. Make no mistake, I'm an independent, not a demo or a repub. A man without a party. > > But I think that I'm going to just keep my current wired setup; > > both computers and the printer are in the same room, and the room [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Are all of your guests women or do you just apply the > feminist-approved female pronoun? Well, to date, not that it's really any of your business, all our overnight guests have been women. > Who cares about your elitist lifestyle and how your computer system > fits the decor? And no one of any intelligence cares about your > political opinions so obviously blared out on your icon and > signature. Make no mistake, I'm an independent, not a demo or a > repub. A man without a party. You're a jerk and a troll. But I like feeding trolls; it makes them explode. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. > > > But I think that I'm going to just keep my current wired setup; > > > both computers and the printer are in the same room, and the room [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > You're a jerk and a troll. But I like feeding trolls; it makes them > explode. And I like baiting elitist liberals like you - it makes them furious! > > You're a jerk and a troll. But I like feeding trolls; it makes > > them explode. > > And I like baiting elitist liberals like you - it makes them furious! LOL. Keep trying, troll boy. You're bush league. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. > > > You're a jerk and a troll. But I like feeding trolls; it makes > > > them explode. > > > > And I like baiting elitist liberals like you - it makes them furious! > > LOL. Keep trying, troll boy. You're bush league. I'll admit that - country living has made me mellow. > As I understand it, the differences between the Airport Extreme base > station and Airport Express, other than size and weight, are: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > but can to Airport Extreme. However, I can connect a USB printer to > either of them. When the USB port of an Airport Express is used with a mutltfunction printer does an Airport Express support the multifunction's scanner and Fax capability or is printing the only supported capbility? Howard > Stop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. > When the USB port of an Airport Express is used with a mutltfunction > printer does an Airport Express support the multifunction's scanner and > Fax capability or is printing the only supported capbility? Printing only. For more information: <http://www.efelix.co.uk/tech/1013.html> <http://discussions.apple.com/forum.jspa?forumID=1016> In article <siegman-31EA1B.17044823012006@news.stanford.edu>, AES <siegman@stanford.edu> wrote: > In article <michelle-23669C.14372723012006@news.west.cox.net>, > Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > each on their own laptop (though it's certainly better than all of us > sitting there watching TV). What an unbelievably selfish, affluent American view of decadent life. The family all sitting around, self-absorbed in their own little laptop machines radiating heat and radio-frequency energy into their legs and crotches - and TV often offers better fare, at a longer distance, so less radiation. Beware, this elitist user requires an email as well as a usenet reply if you wish the privelege of responding to her posts! |
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