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Mac Forum / General / Networking / November 20042 routers on 1 dsl line
My guess is that you cannot put 2 routers on a single dsl line. Anyone know how to do this if it is possible? > My guess is that you cannot put 2 routers on a single dsl line. Anyone > know how to do this if it is possible? Depends on why you want 2 routers. If it because you really want 2 WiFi base stations, then it is best to just disable one of the router's DHCP & NAT services (also sometimes called "Distribute IP Addresses"). Cascading 2 routers can work, but there may be undesirable side effects, like Rendezvous not being passed across a router, or having difficulty setting up file sharing between 2 systems separated by a router. But there are sometimes real reasons for having 2 routers at home, such as intentionally isolating computers behind the 2nd router which might have strict security needs. But on the whole, most homes only need one active router, and if a 2nd devices that offers some other services and also happens to be a router is present, the 2nd router should just have DHCP and NAT services disabled and then use the devices other services/features. Bob Harris Let me thank Bob, Bev and Fetch for responding. I have two computers behind a router and I would like to play a game, Command and Conquer, over the internet with both computers. The problem is that a router can only do port forwarding on one computer and not both. Consequently, one computer is left out. I am thinking that if I can use two routers, each router will open the ports for separate computers. Here is what I have tried. I tried connecting one router into the port of the other router. The network status shows that both computers are connected to the internet but the computer connected tothe second router cannot access my ISP. I then tried used an ethernet hub with no router using one computer as a server for the other computer. I was able to get both computer access to my ISP but both computers still could not join in the game at the same time. I then connected the hub to the first router and the second router to the hub. As before, the second computer cannot access my ISP. I tried changing IP address, router addresses in TCP/IP but nothing works. I also turned DMZ off one computer but you still cannot get both computers to join the game. You would think that would have solved the problem of port forwarding. My suspicion is that there could be something in the game that is preventing this. I emailed Aspyr who ported the game to Mac and they could not help. The odd thing is that I can play Raven Shield with two computers at once. I called my ISP and they said I could not connect 2 routers to one DSL line. Question to Bob. When you say disable DHCP and NAT for the second router, what do you mean? How is that done? If you do that, can the second router still do port forwarding? Question Bev. Can you provide a set up that you think will work? Question to Fetch. I do not think a switch will work in connecting to the internet because it does not have an uplink on it. That is why I used an ethernet hub. Any thoughts? > > My guess is that you cannot put 2 routers on a single dsl line. Anyone > > know how to do this if it is possible? [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Bob Harris > Let me thank Bob, Bev and Fetch for responding. I have two computers > behind a router and I would like to play a game, Command and Conquer, over > the internet with both computers. The problem is that a router can only > do port forwarding on one computer and not both. Consequently, one > computer is left out. I am thinking that if I can use two routers, each > router will open the ports for separate computers. Hi - your limitation is not routers, but in public IP addresses. If you have two public IP addresses, it will not be difficult to port map each of them to a specific computer. > Question Bev. Can you provide a set up that you think will work? The only way I see this working is with two public IP addresses. Beverly  SignatureMany a smale maketh a grate -- Geoffrey Chaucer > Question to Fetch. I do not think a switch will work in connecting to the > internet because it does not have an uplink on it. That is why I used an > ethernet hub. Any thoughts? >> Bob Harris you *do* need a single router - this does the NATing (you will need this) and DHCP (if you want). The switch allows traffic to multiple computers on your side of the network to be handled in a "smart" manner rather than broadcast to every computer. And, yes, the switch would plug into the router. If you are running Macs (or at least one Mac) place it/them in the Router's DMZ this should avoid having to do port fowarding to one computer. I would NOT suggest this with any PC. > Let me thank Bob, Bev and Fetch for responding. I have two computers > behind a router and I would like to play a game, Command and Conquer, over [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > internet because it does not have an uplink on it. That is why I used an > ethernet hub. Any thoughts? How about asking your ISP for a second Static IP Address. Some actually provide multiple IP address's via DHCP directly from the modem. My wife's DSL modem will supply three IP address's via DHCP on it's LAN Port. This would solve all the problems that your having, as you could just have your PC's naked on the network, or you could add a second SOHO type router to you netwotk and have it connect just like the first one, but use a different Subnet on its LAN Port. This would provide some firewall, and NAT support for your second computer. Bruce in alaska Signatureadd a <2> before @ > Let me thank Bob, Bev and Fetch for responding. I have two computers > behind a router and I would like to play a game, Command and Conquer, over > the internet with both computers. The problem is that a router can only > do port forwarding on one computer and not both. Consequently, one > computer is left out. I am thinking that if I can use two routers, each > router will open the ports for separate computers. > Here is what I have tried. I tried connecting one router into the port of > the other router. The network status shows that both computers are [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > access my ISP. I tried changing IP address, router addresses in TCP/IP but > nothing works. You either need to have two separate IP addresses assigned to your computers by your ISP, or need support in the games to use different ports on one IP. An example of a game that provides this support is Blizzard's Warcraft 3. As part of the game configuration you can set which port each of your computers will use, so the two do not try to use the same port when connecting to the Battlenet servers. The other games from Blizzard which were written earlier do not provide support for specifying ports, so only one computer behind a router can play on Battlenet at a time in Diablo 2 or Starcraft. > I also turned DMZ off one computer but you still cannot get both computers > to join the game. You would think that would have solved the problem of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > with two computers at once. I called my ISP and they said I could not > connect 2 routers to one DSL line. Setting one computer to be a DMZ host is essentially forwarding all ports to it. The other computer still has to have NAT and port address translation done for it, and if the port it wants to connect on is already being used by the first that can not happen. Unless the game has a place to set it to use a different port, then both can not play online at the same time. Joe > Question to Bob. When you say disable DHCP and NAT for the second router, > what do you mean? How is that done? If you do that, can the second > router still do port forwarding? > Question Bev. Can you provide a set up that you think will work? > Question to Fetch. I do not think a switch will work in connecting to the > internet because it does not have an uplink on it. That is why I used an > ethernet hub. Any thoughts? >> > My guess is that you cannot put 2 routers on a single dsl line. Anyone >> > know how to do this if it is possible? [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >> >> Bob Harris Well, looks like I need another IP address - dang it! Thanks all for your help. > Well, looks like I need another IP address - dang it! Thanks all > for your help. Eh? That wasn't what I took away from this discussion. ISP | | IP Address from ISP e.g., 214.156.189.233 (router 1 does IP masquerading) Internal LAN IP Address e.g., 10.0.0.1 / \ / \ Computer(s) router 2 10.0.0.x 10.0.0.2 | | More Computer(s) 10.0.0.x+1 etc Your ISP just sees your router using the IP address assigned to it either dynamically or statically. The second router really just acts as a hub for the computers linked to it, whether by Ethernet or wirelessly. You can set the second router to assign IP addresses, but it'd be simpler not to do this and just have it uses the one IP address facing both sides of its network. Of course, it's vastly simpler to have one router and a simple unmanaged Ethernet switch: ISP | | IP Address from ISP e.g., 214.156.189.233 (router 1 does IP masquerading) Internal LAN IP Address e.g., 10.0.0.1 | | Ethernet switch / | \ / | \ Computer Computer Computer If the router has wireless capability, then wireless computers can access it directly rather than through the Ethernet switch. >> Well, looks like I need another IP address - dang it! Thanks all >> for your help. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Internal LAN IP Address > e.g., 10.0.0.1 He has a situation where the same port has to be simultaneously redirected to two internal IP addresses. There's no way to do this with a single external IP address. Beverly SignatureMany a smale maketh a grate -- Geoffrey Chaucer >>> Well, looks like I need another IP address - dang it! Thanks all >>> for your help. >> >> Eh? That wasn't what I took away from this discussion. <snip lame ASCII art> > He has a situation where the same port has to be simultaneously > redirected to two internal IP addresses. > > There's no way to do this with a single external IP address. Wow, I must have missed quite a few articles in this thread. I never saw that part... As Emily Letilla said, "never mind." > My guess is that you cannot put 2 routers on a single dsl line. Anyone > know how to do this if it is possible? Perhaps if you told us what you wanted to do with two routers, someone could help you. However, in principle, as long as you are using private networks attached to a DSL line with a single public IP address, you should be able to use multiple routers. Beverly SignatureMany a smale maketh a grate -- Geoffrey Chaucer > My guess is that you cannot put 2 routers on a single dsl line. Anyone > know how to do this if it is possible? if your reason for 2 routers is to expand your available ports - get a switch and connect it to one port of the router. > My guess is that you cannot put 2 routers on a single dsl line. Anyone > know how to do this if it is possible? you can, however it's not really needed... you can create a 'open' network with a wireless router as your first device and then attach a router to that router for your 'secure' network. also, if your DSL uses pppoe you can hookup 2 routers into a hub/switch off the DSL modem and they'll both be able to get a pppoe session going and might be able to get 2 different IPs off the same username depending on your ISP. if not most ISPs will offer you a second IP address for a minimal cost. Signature-justin |
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