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Mac Forum / General / Networking / October 2007



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Bad modem?

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Homer Brewer - 15 May 2004 20:23 GMT
I have a Starmax with OS 8.6.  For years I've been running an external
GV Teleport upgraded to V90.  It almost always negotiates a speed above
50k.

In the last week or so, I have often lost connections as I logged on, or
I log on at a low speed.  If the negotiated speed is low, I know I'll
lose the connection in a minute or so.

If I have trouble and keep redialing, I will be able to log on at 50k or
better.  If I do that. I'll be able to stay on indefinitely with no
dropped connection or loss of speed.

I wonder if my ISP has a bad modem.  They say my modem is bad.  If my
modem or phone line were bad, could I get such solid, fast connections
by redialing?
Clark Martin - 16 May 2004 19:42 GMT
> I have a Starmax with OS 8.6.  For years I've been running an external
> GV Teleport upgraded to V90.  It almost always negotiates a speed above
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> modem or phone line were bad, could I get such solid, fast connections
> by redialing?

It's difficult for you to tell in this situation whether it's your modem
or the phone line.  It's likely not the ISP's modem as that changes
every time you connect.  Unless the ISP has a lot of bad modems which
would be unlikely you would only intermittently experience a problem.

First step is to simply listen on the phone line (computer not logged
in).  Press a button on the phone to get rid of the dial tone.  If it's
noisy then that at least is a problem, but not necessarily the only one.

Most new or upgraded phone connections (in the US) have a demarc
(demarcation) box where the phone line comes into the house.  One
feature of this box is a phone jack with a cable plugged into it.  If
you unplug this cable it disconnects the house wiring.  You can then
plug a phone into it to test the connection.  If problems go away with
this test the problem is in the house.  If they persist (and the phone
is good) then the problem is with the phone line and the phone company
has to deal with it.  Try connecting the computer at this demarc box if
there is one.

The best thing you could do is to get another modem and try it on your
line.  Alternatively try connecting on another line.

And if you haven't done it already make sure you power cycle the modem
(turn it off, wait 5 seconds and then turn it on again).

Signature

Clark Martin
Redwood City, CA, USA               Macintosh / Internet Consulting

"I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway"

Homer Brewer - 20 May 2004 20:27 GMT
> > I have a Starmax with OS 8.6.  For years I've been running an external
> > GV Teleport upgraded to V90.  It almost always negotiates a speed above
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> every time you connect.  Unless the ISP has a lot of bad modems which
> would be unlikely you would only intermittently experience a problem.

Occasionally in the past I have gotten busy signals at certain times,
such as lunch hour, 4 PM, and early evening.  That suggests to me that
the modem bank is near capacity at peak times.  It's at peak times that
I have been experiencing trouble.  It could be at peak times that only
the bad modem is available, unless I keep dialing until a good one is
free.

The problem disappeared a few days ago.  I think the ISP replaced the
bad modem.

> First step is to simply listen on the phone line (computer not logged
> in).  Press a button on the phone to get rid of the dial tone.  If it's
> noisy then that at least is a problem, but not necessarily the only one.

It's quiet.  I prefer to talk with a headset, which means I would
probably notice intermittent noise.

> Most new or upgraded phone connections (in the US) have a demarc
> (demarcation) box where the phone line comes into the house.  One
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> has to deal with it.  Try connecting the computer at this demarc box if
> there is one.

There's no jack, but unscrewing the wires allows me to check voltage and
current from the phone company as well as resistance and leakage of my
own wiring.

> The best thing you could do is to get another modem and try it on your
> line.  Alternatively try connecting on another line.

I wish I had a spare 56k modem.  Mine is the obsolete kind that plugs
into a serial port.  As redialing would get me a good connection, I
didn't hunt for my 28k modem.

> And if you haven't done it already make sure you power cycle the modem
> (turn it off, wait 5 seconds and then turn it on again).

Thanks.
Minnie - 19 May 2004 12:41 GMT
> I have a Starmax with OS 8.6.  For years I've been running an external
> GV Teleport upgraded to V90.  It almost always negotiates a speed above
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> modem or phone line were bad, could I get such solid, fast connections
> by redialing?
Do you have an extension? Maybe it is too long!
Do you own an answering machine? If so it could be the answer. Perhaps
you've recently changed your answering message. That could make a world
of difference!
Unplug all your extras.
Don't leave a hands free near the modem.

Minnie
nosredna - 19 May 2004 16:11 GMT
> > I have a Starmax with OS 8.6.  For years I've been running an external
> > GV Teleport upgraded to V90.  It almost always negotiates a speed above
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> Minnie

Yes, it could be the wiring. Years go when I was still on dial-up, my
50k Apple internal modem's speed slowed down to 39k. I got some good,
twisted pair phone wiring from Radio Shack and hooked it directly into
the jack coming into the house. The modem shot back up to 44-49k. The
old wiring had been literally baking because some of it ran from the
jack along the side of the house and into the basement window.
Minnie - 19 May 2004 17:09 GMT
> > > I have a Starmax with OS 8.6.  For years I've been running an external
> > > GV Teleport upgraded to V90.  It almost always negotiates a speed above
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> old wiring had been literally baking because some of it ran from the
> jack along the side of the house and into the basement window.

Yes! Wiring probably, maybe he squashed it or perhaps Homer has a screw
loose!
As Homer seems to be up and down I suspect too many people online at
once. Perhaps he could go online at quiet times instead of peak or he
should give up dial up and go for Broadband.
Homer Brewer - 20 May 2004 20:40 GMT
> > > > I have a Starmax with OS 8.6.  For years I've been running an external
> > > > GV Teleport upgraded to V90.  It almost always negotiates a speed above
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
> Yes! Wiring probably, maybe he squashed it or perhaps Homer has a screw
> loose!

My BIL installed a new jack, then called the phone company because of
noise.  They said it was inside.  I found that he'd squashed his wire
with a staple.  Years earlier, he had taken phone service to another
room by connecting several extension cords in series.  He called the
phone company several times to complain of noise, until I discovered
corrosion in one of his connectors.

I had a slight decline in modem performance and intermittent noise on
the telephone until I discovered a few ohms of resistance in the patina
of a spade connector.  I keep track of it by checking the voltage and
current at the phone connector of my modem.

> As Homer seems to be up and down I suspect too many people online at
> once. Perhaps he could go online at quiet times instead of peak or he
> should give up dial up and go for Broadband.

Broadband... was that the name of the hot movie with Tony Curtis, Jack
Lemmon, and Marilyn Monroe?

I think too many people online was the problem.  Only the bad modem was
available.  I've had no trouble in several days.

Homer
Minnie - 20 May 2004 21:32 GMT
> In article <MPG.1b159711f6a6fd52989683@news.individual.net>,
>> Minnie <minnie@none.com> wrote:

> My BIL installed a new jack, then called the phone company because of
> noise.  They said it was inside.  I found that he'd squashed his wire
> with a staple.  Years earlier, he had taken phone service to another
> room by connecting several extension cords in series.  He called the
> phone company several times to complain of noise, until I discovered
>corrosion in one of his connectors.

As your BIL is not so capable as you he may be better off with a wireless
phone jack system.

>I had a slight decline in modem performance and intermittent noise on
>the telephone until I discovered a few ohms of resistance in the patina
>of a spade connector.

Ah gardening!

>> As Homer seems to be up and down I suspect too many people online at
>> once. Perhaps he could go online at quiet times instead of peak or he
>> should give up dial up and go for Broadband.

>Broadband... was that the name of the hot movie with Tony Curtis, Jack
>Lemmon, and Marilyn Monroe?

sugar..... you got it!

>I think too many people online was the problem.  Only the bad modem was
>available.  I've had no trouble in several days.

It's always bad news when you're last in the queue and get the left
overs.
Don't upset your ISP or they may keep that bad one just for you!
Glad you got sorted Homer.
Minnie
Mark Conrad - 09 Oct 2007 15:07 GMT
> I have a Starmax with OS 8.6.  For years I've been running an external
> GV Teleport upgraded to V90.  It almost always negotiates a speed above
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> modem or phone line were bad, could I get such solid, fast connections
> by redialing?

You describe EXACTLY the same symptoms I have been living with for years.

In my case, the problem is with the rural phone company itself.

For a brief while, one day or so, my phone connection worked great.

I commented to the phone company technician about my good fortune.

He told me that tech's had replaced a relay in a switching box near my
rural location.

Unfortunately, a few days later things reverted to just as bad as usual,
I often had to dial 4 times just to get a stable connection.

At times, even my regular telephone voice connection sounded "scratchy",
so I redial and it clears up.

Computer data connections are a lot more fussy than regular voice
connections, especially when making initial contact.

ALL my six Macs have trouble with the bad phone connection.

When I physically transport the same Macs to the nearest city, they
never have problems connecting from there, on well-maintained city phone
lines.

I would venture to say that if you could somehow "uproot" your mac and
transport it to a friends house, a friend who used an entirely different
phone company, that then your Mac would work just fine.

With a large desktop computer, that move is more or less impossible to
do of course.

Also, it does not work to complain to your phone company.

I have been doing that for years, it does no good whatever.

You will just have to live with the constant redialing, as I do.

Bummer.  :(

Mark-
magdalena - 09 Oct 2007 15:13 GMT
In article
<noneof-728D11.07070309102007@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,

> > I have a Starmax with OS 8.6.  For years I've been running an external
> > GV Teleport upgraded to V90.  It almost always negotiates a speed above
[quoted text clipped - 54 lines]
>
> Mark-

This might be a long shot, but has your weather been very hot, and are
any of your phone wires outside of the house? When I was still on
dial-up, I had connection problems during a long stretch of sweltering
weather. I replaced the cable with a high-quality twisted-pair cable and
the problem was fixed. (A large section of my old cable was actually
going out a window and was tacked onto the house for about 20 feet, to
the phone company's box. It was literally baking in the sun.)
Mark Conrad - 09 Oct 2007 17:00 GMT
In article
<magdalenabung-6960EE.10132109102007@comcast.dca.giganews.com>,

> This might be a long shot, but has your weather been very hot, and are
> any of your phone wires outside of the house? When I was still on
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> going out a window and was tacked onto the house for about 20 feet, to
> the phone company's box. It was literally baking in the sun.)

Nope, problem persists, summer and winter during the snow season.

Phone company tech's have been out here many times, even hooking up
their test gear inside my house.

They claim everything is okay.

The clincher, in my estimation, is that when they replaced a relay at a
switching box a few blocks away from my house, the connection was okay
for a day or so, on all six of my Macs.

Stupid phone company does not realize that cheap relay contacts are
subject to oxidation.

Good relays have platinum contacts, which do  _not_  oxidize readily.

Gold contacts are sometimes used, but unless the gold is thick, it tends
to wear off the contact surfaces, too soft a metal.

I worked in the electronics industry for 34 years, part of my
responsibility was to troubleshoot faulty electronics.

Many times there would be an open circuit on a semi-sealed relay.

I would cut the plastic housing away from the relay contacts.

Looking at the contact surfaces by eye, you would swear up and down that
they were shiny bright copper, in excellent shape.

Looking at the same contact surfaces under a microscope, you could see
scattered tiny raised "pads" of oxidation, which were sufficient to
break electrical contact.

Mark-
 
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