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Mac Forum / General / Hardware / May 2008Macbook v. Macbook Pro
Hi everyone, My job is giving me ~$2000 to spend on a Mac laptop. With that amount of money, I can buy either a souped-up, top-of-the-line Macbook or a bottom-of-the-line Macbook Pro. I'm seeking advice about which choice makes more sense. Specifically, aside from the larger display size, is there a major advantage to the Macbook Pro? I don't know enough to find the answer to this question myself from the specs. The top-of-the line Macbook (the black one) and the low-level Macbook Pro both have the same processor as far as I can tell (2.4 Intel Core 2 Duo) and the same amount of memory (2 GBs), and the black Macbook actually has a larger hard drive (250 to 200 GB). Yet the Macbook Pro costs about $450 more. In short, my question is this: why does the Macbook Pro cost so much more? Any thoughts on whether it's worth so much more? Thanks very much for any help!  Signatureez > In short, my question is this: why does the Macbook Pro cost so much > more? Any thoughts on whether it's worth so much more? Main differences are that the MBP has more ports (including Firewire 800 and ExpressCard, not available on the MB), separate graphics card with its own memory (unlike the MB's), which can also drive higher-res external displays than the MB's, matte screen option, and illuminated keyboard. 15" MBP also has LED backlit display (brighter, more even, longer battery life), I forget if that technology has made it to the MBs yet. Whether those features are worth the extra money to you, only you can decide... > > In short, my question is this: why does the Macbook Pro cost so much > > more? Any thoughts on whether it's worth so much more? i have had the same question and it depends on how you are going to use the laptop. Since my primary machine is a 24-inch iMac I would go with the smaller screen Mac Book. The primary reason is the large displays are a PITA on airplanes. I will miss the lighted keys but can live with that. If the new laptop is going to be your primary machine, go with the Pro > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Thanks very much for any help! The most expensive part of the laptop computer is the screen, so going from 13.3 to a 15.4" screen is where most of the difference comes in. If you are being given the money I would always go for the larger screen, even then you'll likely wish the screen was larger. I have a 15" PowerBook and when I see someone with a 13" screen they seem very very small. > The most expensive part of the laptop computer is the screen, so going > from 13.3 to a 15.4" screen is where most of the difference comes in. I use a white MacBook with 2 GiB RAM, DVD burner and a 320 GB internal harddisk. 2 GHz [it is a year old]. But most of the time I have it in a dock: <http://www.bookendzdocks.com/Docking_Stations-Docking_Station_for_13_Ma cBook_White.html> with a 23" Apple Cinema Screen attached to it. Plus keyboard, mouse, Gigabit ethernet and a 500 GB FW-harddisk for TimeMachine. Etc. Of course it is better to have a larger screen when working 'outside the house' but the laptop will then not only be dearer. It will also be larger and heavier during transport. BTW, if you want to use a 30" external screen you will need a MBP. SignaturePer Erik Rønne http://www.RQNNE.dk > My job is giving me ~$2000 to spend on a Mac laptop. With that amount > of money, I can buy either a souped-up, top-of-the-line Macbook or a > bottom-of-the-line Macbook Pro. I'm seeking advice about which choice > makes more sense. What will you use it for? SignatureWoodworking links and more at http://www.woodenwabbits.com >> My job is giving me ~$2000 to spend on a Mac laptop. With that amount >> of money, I can buy either a souped-up, top-of-the-line Macbook or a >> bottom-of-the-line Macbook Pro. I'm seeking advice about which choice >> makes more sense. > > What will you use it for? First of all, thanks everyone for the advice and questions! It'll be my everyday computer at home, and I'll be using for some special work-related projects. They're buying it for me with the expectation that I'll find interesting ways to use it that connect to my work (I'm a college professor). I'm taking a course over the next few weeks on ways to incorporate technology into the classroom, so my hope is to find inventive uses for it. In short, while I don't have any immediate plans to do video editing, I might do some in the next year or two. This helped me a lot, and I did decide to go with the Macbook Pro. I do have one more question. I'm now in the market for an external display (20 to 24 inches). Does anyone recommend a really good one? It doesn't need to be top of the line or anything--just good performance for a relatively good price. Thanks again for the help. Signatureez > This helped me a lot, and I did decide to go with the Macbook Pro. > > I do have one more question. I'm now in the market for an external > display (20 to 24 inches). Does anyone recommend a really good one? It > doesn't need to be top of the line or anything--just good performance > for a relatively good price. 'A really good one' that 'doesn't need to be top of the line' is a bit of a contradiction. However, NEC makes some of the best flat panels around. They have some less expensive units in various sizes. As always, try to sit down in front of whatever you contemplate buying before you actually purchase it, if at all possible. Here's the best one they have (which you probably don't want, $3300): <http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Product/?product=6eec56b3-7ee7-4487-9 e3f-9dd308215618> And here's a much more reasonably priced one, $535: <http://www.necdisplay.com/Products/Series/?series=b4182df4-de1d-44fd-832 4-6b40006a3d0d> Their website has lots of info, though I find it a bit confusing as to organization. If you dig a little, I'm sure you can find what you want. The prices shown are list, so you can probably get a better deal elsewhere. --Fred >> This helped me a lot, and I did decide to go with the Macbook Pro. >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > 'A really good one' that 'doesn't need to be top of the line' is a bit > of a contradiction. Good point. I didn't ask that question very well. Thanks for the suggestions! Signatureez > I do have one more question. I'm now in the market for an external > display (20 to 24 inches). Does anyone recommend a really good one? It > doesn't need to be top of the line or anything--just good performance > for a relatively good price. I've had good bang for the buck from both Acer and NEC 22 inch displays, bought when on sale. Last time I shopped 24" was still a BIG price jump over 22". While they are virtually all made in China, those seemed like a better bet than some of the low-end brands (companies that didn't exist last year, and my not exist next year, so the 3 year warrantee might not be worth much...) On a fairly small sample size, I've had no dead/stuck pixels with those. That seemed to be a very common complaint about the off-brand ones in published reviews. SignatureCats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by >> I do have one more question. I'm now in the market for an external >> display (20 to 24 inches). Does anyone recommend a really good one? It >> doesn't need to be top of the line or anything--just good performance >> for a relatively good price. > I've had good bang for the buck from both Acer and NEC 22 inch displays, > bought when on sale. Last time I shopped 24" was still a BIG price jump > over 22". But most 22" are 1680x1050, same as the 20". This means that they look worse than the 20" because the pixels are simply blow-up. IME, 22" LCDs look like crap compared to 20" LCDs. Signature...in the long run there's still time to change the road you're on > I do have one more question. I'm now in the market for an external > display (20 to 24 inches). Does anyone recommend a really good one? It > doesn't need to be top of the line or anything--just good performance > for a relatively good price. Apple has three good displays at 20", 23" and 30": <http://store.apple.com/us/product/M9177LL/A?fnode=home/shop_mac/mac_acc essories/displays&mco=MTI1NzI> <http://store.apple.com/us/product/M9178LL/A?fnode=home/shop_mac/mac_acc essories/displays&mco=MTI1Njg> <http://store.apple.com/us/product/M9179LL/A?fnode=home/shop_mac/mac_acc essories/displays&mco=MTI1NzM> I have the middle one with 23" [1900*1200 pixels] - in reality it is 24. It was the largest option for me since I bought a MacBook. With a MacBook Pro you can even use the 30" display though personally, I think it is to large. All displays can easily be mounted on the wall, and even be made rotatable so that you can change between landscape and portrait mode. I have mounted my 23" display in that way. SignaturePer Erik Rønne http://www.RQNNE.dk >> I do have one more question. I'm now in the market for an external >> display (20 to 24 inches). Does anyone recommend a really good one? It >> doesn't need to be top of the line or anything--just good performance >> for a relatively good price. > > Apple has three good displays at 20", 23" and 30": Thanks for the suggestion. I didn't ask the question very clearly. The Apple displays look great, but they cost a bit more than I'd like to spend. I will probably be looking for a 20 or 22" inch display that's functional and reliable. Thanks again. Signatureez > >> I do have one more question. I'm now in the market for an external > >> display (20 to 24 inches). Does anyone recommend a really good one? It [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Thanks again. I have no complaints about the Dell-branded 23" widescreen I've been using for the last 2.5 years or so. It's got a built-in USB hub and rotates. Has 4 inputs (but they're in 2 pairs...as far as I know you can only have 2 machines connected concurrently). Does not have built-in FireWire hub or speakers, if that matters to you. Dell displays can usually be found on sale in my observation. Signature"Harry?" Ron's voice was a mere whisper. "Do you smell something ... burning?" - Harry Potter and the Odor of the Phoenix >I have no complaints about the Dell-branded 23" widescreen I've been >using for the last 2.5 years or so. It's got a built-in USB hub and >rotates. Has 4 inputs (but they're in 2 pairs...as far as I know you can >only have 2 machines connected concurrently). Does not have built-in >FireWire hub or speakers, if that matters to you. Dell displays can >usually be found on sale in my observation. I like hubs on monitors and/or keyboards - except that I haven't seen them powered. I can't plug my iPod into the my keyboard along with my mouse - not enough power for them all. If I need a powered hub on my desktop anyway, then having an unpowered hub on my monitor doesn't do much for me. > >I have no complaints about the Dell-branded 23" widescreen I've been > >using for the last 2.5 years or so. It's got a built-in USB hub and [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > If I need a powered hub on my desktop anyway, then having an unpowered > hub on my monitor doesn't do much for me. I've never seen a powered keyboard hub, but I've never seen an unpowered hub in a display. I'd consider such a thing downright goofy. Signature"Harry?" Ron's voice was a mere whisper. "Do you smell something ... burning?" - Harry Potter and the Odor of the Phoenix >I've never seen a powered keyboard hub, but I've never seen an unpowered >hub in a display. I'd consider such a thing downright goofy. What's the difference between the two? Wouldn't it be handy to plug an iPod into the other side of the keyboard that your mouse is plugged into? Or even better, to buy a keyboard that had an iPod dock and plug in your camera to the other side from your mouse - with enough power to use them all? > >I've never seen a powered keyboard hub, but I've never seen an unpowered > >hub in a display. I'd consider such a thing downright goofy. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > your camera to the other side from your mouse - with enough power to > use them all? A display will always need to be separately powered. A keyboard can be powered from the computer's usb-port. SignaturePer Erik Rønne http://www.RQNNE.dk >>I have no complaints about the Dell-branded 23" widescreen I've been >>using for the last 2.5 years or so. It's got a built-in USB hub and >>rotates. Has 4 inputs (but they're in 2 pairs...as far as I know you can >>only have 2 machines connected concurrently). Does not have built-in >>FireWire hub or speakers, if that matters to you. Dell displays can >>usually be found on sale in my observation. > I like hubs on monitors and/or keyboards - except that I haven't seen > them powered. I can't plug my iPod into the my keyboard along with > my mouse - not enough power for them all. > If I need a powered hub on my desktop anyway, then having an unpowered > hub on my monitor doesn't do much for me. I've never had an issue plugging an iPod into any of my Dell 20" LCDs. Signature"Why do you wear that stupid bunny suit?" "Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?" >> If I need a powered hub on my desktop anyway, then having an unpowered >> hub on my monitor doesn't do much for me. > >I've never had an issue plugging an iPod into any of my Dell 20" LCDs. What else were plugged into your monitor's USB ports? > >> If I need a powered hub on my desktop anyway, then having an unpowered > >> hub on my monitor doesn't do much for me. > > > >I've never had an issue plugging an iPod into any of my Dell 20" LCDs. > > What else were plugged into your monitor's USB ports? Shouldn't matter. I don't know what model(s) Lewis has, but my Dell LCD gives the full-spec 5V, 500mA to each port. As Per noted in another branch, the difference is that displays are self-powered. They're already drawing directly from the house so an extra few watts is just an extra few watts. Keyboards, being bus-powered, can't promise to any downstream devices anything more than the 2.5W they're getting minus what they need for themselves. G Signature"Harry?" Ron's voice was a mere whisper. "Do you smell something ... burning?" - Harry Potter and the Odor of the Phoenix >> What else were plugged into your monitor's USB ports? > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >downstream devices anything more than the 2.5W they're getting minus >what they need for themselves. It only matters for non-powered hubs. When you said: >I've never had an issue plugging an iPod into any of my Dell 20" LCDs. I assumed you were providing your evidence that your monitor had a powered hub, which evidence wasn't as convincing as it might be. Now it appears that you have other evidence (the monitor's manual?). I'd be willing to pay more to have a keyboard with its own power cord, iPod dock, and powered USB ports. Otherwise I need to clutter up my desk with a powered USB hub with its iPod dock. My iMac has insufficient number of USB ports - on the back of the computer. > >> What else were plugged into your monitor's USB ports? > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > >I've never had an issue plugging an iPod into any of my Dell 20" LCDs. Just for clarification, I didn't say that. Lewis did. The only iPod I own is FireWire only. But... > I assumed you were providing your evidence that your monitor had a > powered hub, which evidence wasn't as convincing as it might be. Now > it appears that you have other evidence (the monitor's manual?). Yes. The documentation for my display specifies that it acts as a self-powered hub. As I had noted earlier I've never seen a display with an unpowered USB hub in it and would consider such a beast strange. More likely to be broken than working as designed. There's really no point to making one on purpose. > I'd be willing to pay more to have a keyboard with its own power cord, > iPod dock, and powered USB ports. Otherwise I need to clutter up my > desk with a powered USB hub with its iPod dock. My iMac has > insufficient number of USB ports - on the back of the computer. I understand. My wife's work machine is an Intel iMac. Connected to it is one of Apple's flat displays *and* a newer miniStack and she's out of USB ports. I take that back; she's just recently regained one because she updated her handheld from one that need a cradle to one that could synch over Bluetooth. That said, as I also noted previously I've never heard of a self-powered keyboard. I think you're stuck with a freestanding hub. Signature"Harry?" Ron's voice was a mere whisper. "Do you smell something ... burning?" - Harry Potter and the Odor of the Phoenix >Yes. The documentation for my display specifies that it acts as a >self-powered hub. As I had noted earlier I've never seen a display with >an unpowered USB hub in it and would consider such a beast strange. More >likely to be broken than working as designed. There's really no point to >making one on purpose. Many companies will save a couple of dollars if they think they can get away with it. > >Yes. The documentation for my display specifies that it acts as a > >self-powered hub. As I had noted earlier I've never seen a display with [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Many companies will save a couple of dollars if they think they can > get away with it. But it won't save them a couple of dollars. It'd save them a fraction of cent per unit, invisibly passed on to consumers. On the other hand, not providing a full-power hub so puts them at a disadvantage against every other vendor. Signature"Harry?" Ron's voice was a mere whisper. "Do you smell something ... burning?" - Harry Potter and the Odor of the Phoenix > That said, as I also noted previously I've never heard of a self-powered > keyboard. I think you're stuck with a freestanding hub. Matias sell a keyboard <http://www.matias.ca/usb2keyboard/index.php> with a powered USB 2 port but it is a bit of a hack IMO - it uses 2 USB connections from your Mac to get the extra power :-( But still, keyboards which can recharge iPods do exist. Cheers, Chris > Matias sell a keyboard <http://www.matias.ca/usb2keyboard/index.php> > with a powered USB 2 port but it is a bit of a hack IMO - it uses 2 USB > connections from your Mac to get the extra power :-( I bought seven of those as keyboard/mouse spares. The mice are apparently OK. The keyboards are crap. One was totally dead right out of the box (no typey - system profiler sees the hub in the keyboard, but not the keyboard) and another spends various 5 minute periods typing, not typing, typing, not typing.... I've put out exactly 3, so that means I have exactly one that appears to work as it should - and the dual-cable design is annoying, was not obvious in catalog description of the place I bought it, and is not a "powered hub" - it's an unpowered (USB-1.1) hub with the keyboard (if that's working) and two ports at the back, plus an extension cable (the second cable just moves a port from the back of your computer to the top of your keyboard - that's the "USB-2" connection). Keyboard layout is also non-standard, or non-US-standard (company is Canadian) - shift lock in wrong place, etc. Either don't waste your money, or make me an offer for the 4 I have in unopened boxes, which I'd be inclined to let go cheap. Obviously I could not guarantee that they would work, based on my experience with the 3 I've opened. You'd get exactly the same functionality with a real keyboard and an extension cable. SignatureCats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by >> Matias sell a keyboard <http://www.matias.ca/usb2keyboard/index.php> >> with a powered USB 2 port but it is a bit of a hack IMO - it uses 2 USB [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > keyboard) and another spends various 5 minute periods typing, not > typing, typing, not typing.... Even when they work, they apparently have huge issues with phantom keys. Cheers, Chris >>> If I need a powered hub on my desktop anyway, then having an unpowered >>> hub on my monitor doesn't do much for me. >> >>I've never had an issue plugging an iPod into any of my Dell 20" LCDs. > What else were plugged into your monitor's USB ports? I generally use the ports on the LCDs to connect transient devices like card readers, ipods, and cameras. But I have had four iPods connected at the same time to a single 20" without noticing any trouble (a nano, a 3G, a 5G, and a 'stick' Shuffle). Signature"The person, be it gentleman or lady, who has not pleasure in a good novel, must be intolerably stupid". > >> I do have one more question. I'm now in the market for an external > >> display (20 to 24 inches). Does anyone recommend a really good one? It [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Thanks again. A friend of mine is very happy with a 23-inch (or maybe 22) HP monitor that she got for her MacBook Pro because her budget couldn't accommodate an Apple monitor. I saw it and agreed that the colors are excellent and it's nice and bright. It has height adjustment, which the Apple ones do not. I don't know the exact model # but if you want it I can ask my friend. RE: << Thanks for the suggestion. I didn't ask the question very clearly. The Apple displays look great, but they cost a bit more than I'd like to spend. I will probably be looking for a 20 or 22" inch display that's functional and reliable. >> Dell displays (the higher-end "ultrasharp" models) provide some of the best bang-for-the-buck. Also keep an eye on dealmac.com for display bargains. I also like HP and Gateway displays, but my Dell 1905FP is the best monitor I've ever owned - even beats the iMac 24". - John > >> I do have one more question. I'm now in the market for an external > >> display (20 to 24 inches). Does anyone recommend a really good one? It [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > spend. I will probably be looking for a 20 or 22" inch display that's > functional and reliable. At least here in Denmark, Apple Displays aren't dearer than their competitors when talking about displays with similar resolutions. Of course, I don't include CRT displays here ... SignaturePer Erik Rønne http://www.RQNNE.dk > This helped me a lot, and I did decide to go with the Macbook Pro. If it's not too late, pitch in a few of your own dollars and get the high-end one. Think in terms of what you'll have 3-5 years from now, what the state of the art will be (it will have moved on ;), what will be common software, downloads, etc. (can't predict, but it'll be bigger, take more space, require more CPU, etc.) and how little your couple-hundred-dollars spread over 3-5 years really is. Put another way, what calibur of computer will become your "hand me down" in 3-5 years, and is that what you want your daughter/friend/favorite student to have? ;) SignaturePlease take off your pants or I won't read your e-mail. I will not, no matter how "good" the deal, patronise any business which sends unsolicited commercial e-mail or that advertises in discussion newsgroups. > Hi everyone, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > Thanks very much for any help! Whether it's worth "so much more" depends on how much you value the things that are different. The bigger screen is a big issue for some people. You're getting more than 25% more real estate. The MBP also offers the option of a non-glossy screen, about which some people feel very strongly. Continuing the video differences, the MBP has a more powerful video subsystem and has dedicated video memory instead of stealing a chunk of system RAM. The MBP has an ExpressCard/34 slot. Those are the big differences. Signature"Harry?" Ron's voice was a mere whisper. "Do you smell something ... burning?" - Harry Potter and the Odor of the Phoenix > My job is giving me ~$2000 to spend on a Mac laptop. With that amount of > money, I can buy either a souped-up, top-of-the-line Macbook or a > bottom-of-the-line Macbook Pro. I'm seeking advice about which choice > makes more sense. Make sure you can stand the glossy screen on the Macbook. This was the deal killer for us when we got a new computer for my SO. Also, if you intend to do more intense graphics stuff, the Pro simply has more grunt and memory available to do those sorts of things. Signatureclvrmnky <mailto:spamtrap@clevermonkey.org> Direct replies to this address will be blacklisted. Replace "spamtrap" with my name to contact me directly. > Hi everyone, > My job is giving me ~$2000 to spend on a Mac laptop. With that amount > of money, I can buy either a souped-up, top-of-the-line Macbook or a > bottom-of-the-line Macbook Pro. I'm seeking advice about which choice > makes more sense. > Specifically, aside from the larger display size, is there a major > advantage to the Macbook Pro? I don't know enough to find the answer to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > memory (2 GBs), and the black Macbook actually has a larger hard drive > (250 to 200 GB). Yet the Macbook Pro costs about $450 more. The Pro has areal video card. Is it worth it? Well, that depends entirely on you. Signature"I don't care if Bill Gates is the world's biggest philanthropist. The pain he has inflicted on the world in the past 20 years through lousy products easily outweighs any good he has done.... Apple is as arrogant as Microsoft but at least its stuff works as advertised" -- Graem Philipson > My job is giving me ~$2000 to spend on a Mac laptop. With that amount > of money, I can buy either a souped-up, top-of-the-line Macbook or a > bottom-of-the-line Macbook Pro. I'm seeking advice about which choice > makes more sense. Buy a macbook and use the surplus money for an external display ... Cheers ! > > My job is giving me ~$2000 to spend on a Mac laptop. With that amount > > of money, I can buy either a souped-up, top-of-the-line Macbook or a > > bottom-of-the-line Macbook Pro. I'm seeking advice about which choice > > makes more sense. > > Buy a macbook and use the surplus money for an external display ... Yep, a white MacBook with a 23" Apple Cinema Display ... SignaturePer Erik Rønne http://www.RQNNE.dk |
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