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Mac Forum / Country Specific / Australian Mac Group / May 2007



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• Mac Items For Sale, G5 manual, G3 etc

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AussieMacMan - 05 May 2007 11:02 GMT
For Sale:
From my collection of Macs (all working)...........
G3 - great for the kids or networking with other computers, loaded with OS &
software.
7300/180 with G3/300Mhz sonnet card,
7200/90,
8100/80,
6100/66,
LCIII,
books,
manuals,
software...
All going cheap!
For pictures and details, check out:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~swler
woods - 06 May 2007 02:25 GMT
> For Sale:
> From my collection of Macs (all working)...........
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> For pictures and details, check out:
> http://members.optusnet.com.au/~swler

hard rubbish collection should be coming around your neighbourhood
sometime soon. ;)
Andrew - 07 May 2007 01:49 GMT
Give the guy a go :)
The web presentation was excellent and there are a few collectors out
there.....
I sold a 266 G3 beige customised with ATX power supply, 256mb ram, 13GB HD,
zip , DVD-CDRW and 15" matching beige LCD monitor the other day..
I got a lot for it but almost wept to see it go....
It has been my workhorse (spare mac) for older stuff until recently when
replaced by a sawtooth G4 with a 1.2GHZ upgraded cpu

Andrew

On 6/5/07 11:25 AM, in article
463d2e90$0$30915$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au, "woods" <noreply@none.com>
wrote:

>> For Sale:
>> From my collection of Macs (all working)...........
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> hard rubbish collection should be coming around your neighbourhood
> sometime soon. ;)
Mike Dee - 07 May 2007 06:50 GMT
> Give the guy a go :)
> The web presentation was excellent and there are a few collectors out
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> workhorse (spare mac) for older stuff until recently when replaced by a
> sawtooth G4 with a 1.2GHZ upgraded cpu

Yeah. I still have an ex-beige 266 G3, which has been fitted into an ATX
mid-tower with an ATX PS. I keep it going because I have a 10 yrs+ old
SCSI Umax scanner which just refuses to produce a bad scan.

The day the scanner dies, I might think about retiring the G3... maybe.

Signature

dee

Rifty - 07 May 2007 12:02 GMT
> > Give the guy a go :)
> > The web presentation was excellent and there are a few collectors out
> > there.....

One person's rubbish is another person's treasure....
Anyone who's held a garage sale can verify that!  :)

> Yeah. I still have an ex-beige 266 G3, which has been fitted into an ATX
> mid-tower with an ATX PS. I keep it going because I have a 10 yrs+ old
> SCSI Umax scanner which just refuses to produce a bad scan.
 
> The day the scanner dies, I might think about retiring the G3... maybe.

Heh heh - don't be too sure it will be that way round. I keep a beige G3
on OS 8.6 for exactly the same reason, and the scanner looks like going
on forever; while the last time I fired up the G3 it made some pretty
weird noises and did not sound happy. My guess is that the SCSI scanner
won't have a computer to run it before the reverse is true!

Rifty
Signature

riftynet - put a dot after rifty

Emma Grey - 07 May 2007 14:17 GMT
> > > Give the guy a go :)
> > > The web presentation was excellent and there are a few collectors out
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> Rifty

Hey guys, I can go one better (or worse). My (seemingly eternal) SCSI
scanner runs off a 7300/200. Is anyone going to put in a claim for
hand-cranked Mac?

Sadly - for the OP - such items are give-aways now.

Emma
Mike Dee - 08 May 2007 03:54 GMT
> Hey guys, I can go one better (or worse). My (seemingly eternal) SCSI
> scanner runs off a 7300/200. Is anyone going to put in a claim for
> hand-cranked Mac?

I would if I still had one :-)

> Sadly - for the OP - such items are give-aways now.

You're not wrong. A year or so back, I bought a 7300/200 which had been
upgraded with a G3 card for $80 (I think, it may've been less,
certainly not more). The sweetener (for me) was that the person selling
was throwing in two similar aged Power Computing PowerWave towers as
part of the deal.

Having never owned a Power Computing box before I couldn't resist. I
ended up putting the G3 card into the best of the two PowerWaves and
giving the rest away.

Got these via this NG actually (from Binky) If you're still lurking
about Binky; cheers mate, your PowerWave still lives on :-)

Signature

dee

Emma Grey - 08 May 2007 16:31 GMT
> > Hey guys, I can go one better (or worse). My (seemingly eternal) SCSI
> > scanner runs off a 7300/200. Is anyone going to put in a claim for
> > hand-cranked Mac?
>
> I would if I still had one :-)
>  

... actually I have two 7300s (one can be a spare in anticipation of
the day when I need to cannibalise ... )

crApple make it so hard to keep your old stuff alive, but there's still
life in the old Pascal system. I consider it a challenge to keep the
torch burning, but I don't need any impractical motivation. I still use
the old OS for MIDI (so much easier), as well as my SCSI scanner, to
say nothing of the indomitable Word 5.1a, which still communicates with
XP Word on a PC at uni.

PLUS ... I run Tiger on a G4 PPC. It's no problem having the best of
BOTH worlds. Anyone who thinks they're so smart they don't need to is
missing out. That's my opinion.

And I have a Dual Core MacBook on order. Why not have the best of ALL
worlds?

Emma
Rifty - 09 May 2007 03:37 GMT
> to
> say nothing of the indomitable Word 5.1a, which still communicates with
> XP Word on a PC at uni.

Word 5 for the  Mac was one of the finest and tightest pieces of
word-processor programming ever devised. It can still do things that no
more 'advanced' wp program can do - or at least, can do them far more
elegantly and simply. Pity there wasn't an OSX version!

Rifty
Signature

riftynet - put a dot after rifty

Emma Grey - 09 May 2007 15:31 GMT
> > to
> > say nothing of the indomitable Word 5.1a, which still communicates with
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Rifty

Couldn't agree more, Rifty. I still use is occasionally, even to the
extent of running 'Classic', but it's a shame it looks so clunky these
days next to the elegant OSX environment. I can't say I've found an
genuine alternative. There are plenty of really good text tools, but
that Pages thing is awful, and Open Office as ugly as sin.

Ah, the imperfect world!

Emma
Rifty - 10 May 2007 08:33 GMT
> Open Office as ugly as sin.

It is, isn't it?  Why is that?  I would use Open Office and discard
Microsoft Office any time except I can't stand the look and feel of it.

Same syndrome as people who aren't comfortable with anything that isn't
Windows, I guess....  :)

We like what's familiar, and resent the rest.

I remember one of my students years ago had his assignment on disk and
needed to print it out, and all that was available was a Mac. This
normally mild-mannered, intelligent guy, practically foaming at the
mouth, nearly threw a kid's tanty on the floor when he couldn't make the
Mac file finding process work like Windows Explorer!

If that's what road rage is like, I don't want to be anywhere near
someone like him heading in his direction.

Rifty
Signature

riftynet - put a dot after rifty

Emma Grey - 10 May 2007 16:19 GMT
> > Open Office as ugly as sin.
>
> It is, isn't it?  Why is that?  I would use Open Office and discard
> Microsoft Office any time except I can't stand the look and feel of it.

As far as Open Office goes, I suppose it belongs in the unix world
which is inherently codey, rather than mousey. The Mac interface was
the object of some genuine design (a rare and intelligent moment!), and
perhaps most of the credit for that should go Xerox ­ if I remember
rightly, the WIMP idea came out of their Palo Alto labs. And I mean
Design in its widest sense, not just dreaming up pretty kitchen
cabinets: ergonomic, with the minimum of impedimenta between brain and
display. The original Mac concept was, as we remember, the extension of
that by standardising the command structure so we could all develop
nice neat neural pathways to use it without conscious effort, meaning
distraction from the real task.

I suppose Open Office is just some generic layout to be a front end to
make use of the code; that's why it's not inventive. No energy has gone
into it.

> Same syndrome as people who aren't comfortable with anything that isn't
> Windows, I guess....  :)
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> mouth, nearly threw a kid's tanty on the floor when he couldn't make the
> Mac file finding process work like Windows Explorer!

Lecturers too, tyring to get their laptops to work with the overhead
system! But then UNSW (my patch) has management peopled by Klingons.

Emma
Rifty - 11 May 2007 07:38 GMT
> As far as Open Office goes, I suppose it belongs in the unix world
> which is inherently codey, rather than mousey. The Mac interface was
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> make use of the code; that's why it's not inventive. No energy has gone
> into it.

Interesting comment, and though I never thought much about *why* I
dislike it, what you say seems to fit with my experience of it.

> Lecturers too, tyring to get their laptops to work with the overhead
> system! But then UNSW (my patch) has management peopled by Klingons.

Clearly we could have a long and cosy bitch session about management at
our respective universities but we'd each be happily reinforcing each
other's prejudices so, mercifully, I won't inflict my views on tertiary
ed bureaucrats on everyone. But in our area of the uni, the computer
that talks to the overhead system has always been Mac, and people have
got educated into just putting their flash drive into the USB port and
having things work (unless they're so naive as to believe that
absolutely anything produced on a PC should work in a Mac). But then all
that would be needed there is to open a copy of Parallels.... and have
the right software installed...

Incidentally, it's very interesting that for all the training workshops
in IT, whether for PCs or Macs, the training room houses only MacMinis,
that people can use as real computers or Win XP if they want to. Many
doing their training session are not even aware that they've been using
a Mac all along. The IT people say that virtually no maintenance on
these machines is required - even the Win tragics.

Rifty

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riftynet - put a dot after rifty

David Morrison - 13 May 2007 03:41 GMT
> > > Open Office as ugly as sin.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> nice neat neural pathways to use it without conscious effort, meaning
> distraction from the real task.

It's a shame therefore that OS X has to some extent gone backwards in this.
One example of many: In OS 9 and earlier, one click selected something, two
clicks made it do something, usually open. In OS X, in some places it is the
same (eg, Finder windows), but in others (eg, the Dock), one click makes an
icon do something.

The web hasn't helped, because mostly a single click does something, eg, it
takes you to another page.

The problem this ambiguity has caused can be seen in almost any novice
computer user. They double-click everything, often leading to strange results
that they don't understand.

Cheers

David
Anthony Lawther - 13 May 2007 10:49 GMT
> > > > Open Office as ugly as sin.
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> same (eg, Finder windows), but in others (eg, the Dock), one click makes an
> icon do something.

I take it you never encountered the Launcher under OS 9, or viewed a
Finder window in Button mode. Both of these provided the same sort of
functionality as the Dock. It's not really that OS X has gone backwards,
as OS 9 wasn't always consistent either.

In the Dock it makes sense to have a single click perform the action, if
you think of it as a row of custom buttons rather than a set of icons.
After all, you don't double-click the OK or Cancel buttons, nor do you
need to "double-click" a lift button to make it work.

Some people love the Dock, others hate it.

> The web hasn't helped, because mostly a single click does something, eg, it
> takes you to another page.

Again, it comes down to making a distinction between button-like objects
and non-button like objects. Hyperlinks are basically buttons embedded
in the body of text that are less obtrusive than an actual button
interrupting the flow of text.

> The problem this ambiguity has caused can be seen in almost any novice
> computer user. They double-click everything, often leading to strange results
> that they don't understand.

This only lingers while they learn what behaves like a button and what
doesn't.

> Cheers
>
> David

Regards,
Anthony
David Morrison - 13 May 2007 12:28 GMT
> In the Dock it makes sense to have a single click perform the action, if
> you think of it as a row of custom buttons rather than a set of icons.
> After all, you don't double-click the OK or Cancel buttons, nor do you
> need to "double-click" a lift button to make it work.

> Again, it comes down to making a distinction between button-like objects
> and non-button like objects. Hyperlinks are basically buttons embedded
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> This only lingers while they learn what behaves like a button and what
> doesn't.

Sorry, it doesn't. I'm talking about (usually) older people who do not use
computers on a daily basis. They are having enough trouble remembering which
thing they have to click without having to work out whether they click it once
or twice.

David
Emma Grey - 13 May 2007 13:32 GMT
> > In the Dock it makes sense to have a single click perform the action, if
> > you think of it as a row of custom buttons rather than a set of icons.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> David

And there are changes, like the keystrokes to make an Alias, the
multiple selection procedures, the New window commands. The longer you
used the original Standards, the worse it is to make later changes, to
rewrite those pathways, and that DOES defeat the original object. Where
new areas like the internet are concerned, it's perhaps understandable
and inevitable, but when FileMaker decided to change everything to make
it more like Windows, a great idea was turned into nonsense.

Trying to remember which system and keyboard you're on is a nightmare!
Like a lot of people, I find myself obliged to use them all. But we
Aussies should know about all that: remember the rail system, the guage
discrepancies, when you needed to change the bogies to cross the state
lines? It's the same stupidity. All in the name of competition.

As a species we'd have never developed hunting or agriculture if we'd
used that benchmark. Hell, we'd never have got the concept of a
benchmark at all!

Emma
Anthony Lawther - 13 May 2007 13:36 GMT
> > In the Dock it makes sense to have a single click perform the action, if
> > you think of it as a row of custom buttons rather than a set of icons.
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
>
> David

This doesn't agree with your original statement, as the majority of
novice computer users are actually children. Puttting any novice in
front of a computer and saying "Here's the mouse, here's the keyboard,
I'll leave you to it" is just as pointless as doing the equivalent for a
car.

Equally, if while learning to drive a car you only had one lesson a
month with an experienced driver to teach you and were on your own for
the rest of the time, you would probably never become a safe driver.

The point I'm trying to make here, is that the problem only lasts while
they learn the difference. If they never learn the difference the
problem never goes away.

Of course, removing this problem for the relative handful of users who
haven't worked it out, by making *everything* a double-click or
*everything* a single-click, would remove a great deal of functionality
that is regularly used by those who have worked it out. After all, the
double-click is just a shortcut for the default action.

If the whole double-click vs single-click thing has these people
confused, you would serve them well to not teach them to double-click,
but instead single-click and then select open from the File menu, or
what ever function is appropriate. This is the way that the program that
came with early Macs taught people how to use the interface. The long
way is always there, so you don't always have to take the shortcut.

As for the Dock, there is no point in clicking something and having
nothing happen until you double-click.

Regards,
Anthony
Steve B - 08 May 2007 01:35 GMT
> Give the guy a go :)
> The web presentation was excellent and there are a few collectors out
> there.....
> I sold a 266 G3 beige customised with ATX power supply, 256mb ram, 13GB HD,
> zip , DVD-CDRW and 15" matching beige LCD monitor the other day..
> I got a lot for it but almost wept to see it go....

Do you mind divulging how much "a lot" is?

Thanks in advance,
Steve  = : ^ )
Andrew - 09 May 2007 05:37 GMT
Well, yes, I will just get flamed

andrew

On 8/5/07 10:35 AM, in article C2660309.F302%pretty.good@everything.net.au,

>> Give the guy a go :)
>> The web presentation was excellent and there are a few collectors out
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> Thanks in advance,
> Steve  = : ^ )
Mike Dee - 10 May 2007 07:06 GMT
> Well, yes, I will just get flamed

Jason has left the building, hasn't he? ;-)

Signature

dee

Andrew - 10 May 2007 09:05 GMT
That's who I was thinking about
Yes he used to give me heaps
It was like being back at school :)
What happened to him anyway ?
Did he voluntarily enter therapy ?

Andrew

On 10/5/07 4:06 PM, in article Xns992CA3C2C9D13emteedee@85.214.62.108, "Mike
Dee" <emteedee@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>> Well, yes, I will just get flamed
>
> Jason has left the building, hasn't he? ;-)
Peter - 10 May 2007 15:56 GMT
> That's who I was thinking about
> Yes he used to give me heaps
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> >
> > Jason has left the building, hasn't he? ;-)

Haven't you been told NOT TO TOP POST today?????!!!!

He who should not be mentioned in case it draws his interest back in
this direction was last seen wandering about
alt.tv.comedy-central.daily-show in January.
 
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