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Mac Forum / Country Specific / Australian Mac Group / July 2005What is OS X for?
What is the real purpose of this operating system? Its sure as fvck isn't for the user... some ppl must have a sick sense of humour out there, that's for sure. After a few months of daily use, I actually reached the point this morning where I *almost* considered throwing this G4 out the window, if only for the temporary relief it would bring. Seriously. I only wish I had noted all of the frustrations I have come across in these past few months, but there has been so many that it's been overwhelming. Many times I wanted to ask questions (here for example), but frankly some were so basic it was a tad embarrassing. More often though, I'd already lost too much time and needed to *get things done*, and so went back to my Linux and windows machines. I can't get /anything/ worthwhile done on a Mac! I realise that many of you can get things done... so what is the secret?????? Look, I know what many of you reading this must be thinking, but honestly I am reasonably competent behind a computer. I spend cumulatively most of every day behind one, and have done for many many years. I have no real problems with Windows or Linux... so I *must* be missing some fundamental point with this operating system. I don't know what it is though :\ I'm ready to give it away... I've spent quite a bit on this gear but I'm not seeing any benefit. In fact, just the opposite. Its got to the point where it's staring to really get to me... the most (to me) basic operations almost always get thwarted at every turn. -------- Okay, here is what finally made me post this rant: I have a bunch of jpgs on the desktop (not that I wanted them there in the first place, I'd rather they'd be in a folder. But thats another story). So, what I wanted to do is *move* them to a folder I created on another drive. Can I find a simple way to select them all in one hit? Nooooo.... of course not. So, instead I select everything on the desktop, and deselect the few icons I don't want moved. This doesn't work, to say the least... Anyway, I want to move them. Can I do this? Nope... the option to move them apparently isn't there. WTF?? Why is this option not in the context menu???????? Is this such an exotic concept? Okay, I'll COPY them and then go through the whole process again, except this time I'll delete the originals, so I think... (haha, yeah sure mate :) Problem: the files seemingly copy (about 60 files) but then suddenly it is copying THOUSANDS of files... system files etc. I eventually discover that there was about 30 or so jpgs all stacked precisely on top of a drive icon on the desktop... bloody hell. I have NO idea why. Anyway, I try to 'arrange' the desktop items, so as to avoid this (why the HELL they were all stacked up like that in the first place is another matter). Does this work? Nooooo... any jpg I move off the drive icon gets replaced by another... I guess this is some 'feature' I am not aware of? Then I get the idea of deleting, sorry, "move to trash", then maybe copy move or otherwise beg OSX to put the files into a folder I made on another drive. Yeah, right... "The items on the clipboard cannot be pasted to this location" f.cking unbelievable... I got another, similar msg when later trying to move them from the desktop to another folder as well. This is only the start, but you get the picture. Oh, and delete key doesn't even do anything! And why cant I have more than one directory window open?! Anyway... Maybe there is someone here willing to explain a few of these basics to me, without being a smart-arse about it? I couldn't care less about the PC vs Mac bullshit, I'm an enthusiast, which is why I run multiple platforms... but man, I don't know WHAT it is about Macs, but they have me STUMPED. I admit it. I've never posted anything like this before, I've persevered with various flavours of Linux and Windows and prevailed. But not with OS X - the only OS that I cannot figure out. So, can anyone explain to me how I can *move* a bunch of files from one place, to another place? I cannot believe I am asking such a question :\ Thanks for listening to my (incoherent) rant, and a big thanks to anyone who is silly enough to want to help me ;)  Signature/J/ > Can I find a simple way to select them all in one hit? Nooooo.... of > course not. So, instead I select everything on the desktop, and deselect > the few icons I don't want moved. This doesn't work, to say the least... Open a new Finder window, select "Desktop" from the sidebar, switch to the "List" view, sort by file type (click the "Kind" colum header), then select the appropriate range. > Anyway, I want to move them. Can I do this? Nope... the option to move > them apparently isn't there. WTF?? Why is this option not in the context > menu???????? Is this such an exotic concept? Moving, if memory serves, involves holding down command or control while dragging. Don't actually remember which, because typically *I'd* do this sort of operation by opening a terminal window and then using 'mv'. Matt > Moving, if memory serves, involves holding down command or control > while dragging. Don't actually remember which, because typically > *I'd* do this sort of operation by opening a terminal window and > then using 'mv'. No, moving something just requires dragging it (fairly obvious really). If you want to copy it, hold down option. MK. PS: The original poster fails to mention how he might achieve these tasks more easily in Windows or Linux that can't be done in OS X. For instance, where should icons be put when there are more than the screen can hold? >> Moving, if memory serves, involves holding down command or control >> while dragging. Don't actually remember which, because typically [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > No, moving something just requires dragging it (fairly obvious really). > If you want to copy it, hold down option. Yeah, but isn't the default action when the destination is on another volume copy rather than move? I'd assumed that was what was causing this chap's problem. > PS: The original poster fails to mention how he might achieve these > tasks more easily in Windows or Linux that can't be done in OS X. For > instance, where should icons be put when there are more than the screen > can hold? Choosing move/copy/alias on Windows can be done by right-dragging the icons to the destination. When the mouse button has been released a context-sensitive menu pops up. That trick doesn't work on OS X -- the moment you right-click to start the drag the context menu pops up. The too-many-icons thing would be resolved in the same way as it is on the Mac -- bring up a Finder/Explorer window in list/detail view showing the desktop, sort by kind/type. Matt > >> Moving, if memory serves, involves holding down command or control > >> while dragging. Don't actually remember which, because typically [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > another volume copy rather than move? I'd assumed that was what > was causing this chap's problem. I used to be - these days it merely gives you an alias. I love OSX but this that is one little nugget that dows drive me mad. SignatureSara iChat: sarakirk (AIM) So, what are you going to do? Sucker me to death? > I used to be - these days it merely gives you an alias. I love OSX but > this that is one little nugget that dows drive me mad. Huh? When I copy files onto my flash disk, I just drag them there and they copy. This is under 10.4.2. MK. >>>> Moving, if memory serves, involves holding down command or control >>>> while dragging. Don't actually remember which, because typically [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > I used to be - these days it merely gives you an alias. I love OSX but > this that is one little nugget that dows drive me mad. Hi, Copying is dragging to that folder or volume and when you see a "green cross" next to it as you drag you know that is copying that file/s Moving file/s involves holding down command key as you drag (no green cross will be seen) Works for me Loveee OSX GOOD LOOKING! STABLE! NO PROBS STARTING UP OR SHUTTING DOWN! EASY TO DELETE FILES! 10.3.9 here 1.5 GB ram DP 1.8 :) >>Moving, if memory serves, involves holding down command or control >>while dragging. Don't actually remember which, because typically >>*I'd* do this sort of operation by opening a terminal window and >>then using 'mv'. > > No, moving something just requires dragging it (fairly obvious really). Indeed. So why doesn't it work on this machine? > If you want to copy it, hold down option. Copying in of itself has not been a problem. > MK. > > PS: The original poster fails to mention how he might achieve these > tasks more easily in Windows or Linux that can't be done in OS X. Probably because this is not a problem for me with Win or Lin? And only encourages a Mac vs everything else argument with those simple minded enough to focus on such things... which is not something I'm interested in, as I have already mentioned. > instance, where should icons be put when there are more than the screen > can hold? I don't know. But why not just tell me that there were too many icons on the desktop? That never occurred to me. I'll get back to the other helpful replies later asap, thanks. Signature/J/ > >>Moving, if memory serves, involves holding down command or control > >>while dragging. Don't actually remember which, because typically [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Indeed. So why doesn't it work on this machine? "...what I wanted to do is *move* them to a folder I created on another drive." You're trying to move something from one disk to another; the default behaviour in Mac OS is to copy the file, as it is in Windows. Otherwise every time you copied a document to a flash drive you would lose your original. " Anyway, I try to 'arrange' the desktop items, so as to avoid this (why the HELL they were all stacked up like that in the first place is another matter). Does this work? Nooooo... any jpg I move off the drive icon gets replaced by another... I guess this is some 'feature' I am not aware of?" Yes, you have an auto-arrange option turned on for the desktop. Same as Windows behaviour IIRC. If you don't want it, either command-drag the item or turn the option off. "Then I get the idea of deleting, sorry, "move to trash", then maybe copy move or otherwise beg OSX to put the files into a folder I made on another drive. Yeah, right... "The items on the clipboard cannot be pasted to this location" f.cking unbelievable..." So a Windows shortcut doesn't work in the Mac OS. "Pasting" to the trash isn't intuitive unless you're used to it; it's a difference between the operating systems. You can press the "delete" key if you want something to go to the trash, perhaps more intuitive. > > If you want to copy it, hold down option. > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Probably because this is not a problem for me with Win or Lin? Yes, but why? You say the UI is terrible because you couldn't do those things, and say it's not a problem on the other systems without specifying how. How do you do it on a Win or Lin system that the Mac fails to do? For instance, is there some way to select all the JPEGs on the desktop in Windows? I don't know of one. And if you want to use mv and wildcards, Linux style, the Terminal is a click away. > And only encourages a Mac vs everything else argument with those simple > minded enough to focus on such things... which is not something I'm > interested in, as I have already mentioned. The focus is determined by the questions you asked, or should we be addressing some topic you didn't mention? Or some operating system we don't know about, instead of focusing on the ones you mentioned? > > instance, where should icons be put when there are more than the screen > > can hold? > > I don't know. But why not just tell me that there were too many icons on > the desktop? That never occurred to me. Do Win or Lin do that? > I'll get back to the other helpful replies later asap, thanks. Mate, if you want help, soft pedalling the attitude will help. If you wade into a Mac newsgroup and tell them the OS is crap because you don't know how to use it, you're going to irritate people. The help you've been offered is tribute to the community spirit of Mac users. My advice would be to get over yourself, accept that you have a few things to learn, and figure them out using as much external help as necessary. Your initial post set the tone of the exchange. MK. > So a Windows shortcut doesn't work in the Mac OS. "Pasting" to the > trash isn't intuitive unless you're used to it; it's a difference > between the operating systems. You can press the "delete" key if you > want something to go to the trash, perhaps more intuitive. Commmand-delete moves selected files to the Trash. (I used to like OS 7 which allowed you to rename it to Rubbish!) Dale Signaturedstanbro@spam.o.matic.bigpond.net.au > What is the real purpose of this operating system? <snip> I'm reading this ATM: http://www.peachpit.com/articles/article.asp?p=30243&rl=1 I still thinks it's absurd that I need to read an article, or ask for help on what should be intuitively simple operations... did those responsible for OS X decide to do things differently just for the sake of being different? Seems to be the case. Anyone know a good url that covers handy keystroke combinations? Signature/J/ > I still thinks it's absurd that I need to read an article, or ask for > help on what should be intuitively simple operations... did those > responsible for OS X decide to do things differently just for the sake > of being different? Seems to be the case. The select-via-GUI thing is the same on Windows, more or less. If you've got lots of crap on the desktop then the only safe way to select only the ones you want is to bring the desktop folder up in an Explorer window and poke about. For info on keyboard shortcuts, how about reading the Mac Help thingo? Help->Mac Help, select "Look up topics easily", select "K", "Key combinations", "Shortcuts for the Finder". You could probably just enter that last bit of text in the search field and go straight there. It says to use option-drag to copy rather than move (move is the default action when the files stay on the same disk). I don't have a second disk on this machine so I can't confirm it for sure, but it seems reasonable that option-drag would work for move-instead-of- copy when copy is the default. Matt > > What is the real purpose of this operating system? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Anyone know a good url that covers handy keystroke combinations? I think your brain has been damaged by too many years using Microsoft's sh.t :D May I suggest you login to oz.org with x-chat and join #apple, and chat live with helpful people :) Signature"Bill Gates is just a monocle and a Persian Cat away from being one of the bad guys in a James Bond movie." -- Dennis Miller > > What is the real purpose of this operating system? > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > responsible for OS X decide to do things differently just for the sake > of being different? Seems to be the case. It's hard to know what ones you are complaining about. Mac OS X (for the most part) continued the key combinations from OS 9 and before. Perhaps you should complain about the Windows and Linux who didn't follow the mac, and changed them just for the sake of being different. Windows and the '\' to separate directories is a good example. Why didn't they just use '/' like Unix did at the time? Dale Signaturedstanbro@spam.o.matic.bigpond.net.au >It's hard to know what ones you are complaining about. Mac OS X >(for the most part) continued the key combinations from OS 9 and >before. I think this is what the original poster would be referring to except that he hadn't used <OS9, and I do agree it takes getting used to in OSX. >Perhaps you should complain about the Windows and Linux who didn't >follow the mac, and changed them just for the sake of being different. OSX is the odd one out of {Irix, Solaris, Linux & even windows). Having said all this, the original poster should read the manual, it's all there...the fact that it is done differently does not make OSX useless (as the subject line would imply). Cheers On 24/7/05 9:28 AM, in article dbujqt$kgi$1@bunyip2.cc.uq.edu.au, "barefoot" <pphamUNDIES@uqUNDIES.netUNDIES.au> wrote: >> It's hard to know what ones you are complaining about. Mac OS X >> (for the most part) continued the key combinations from OS 9 and [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Cheers Hi, What the hell are people complaining about? OSX is the most stable , good looking OS I have used. Windows works, but not good looking, stable..mmm not like OSX Linux is good , but sit down and do a lot of reading, and try and figure out how to install files etc... >Hi, >What the hell are people complaining about? Read his post. >OSX is the most stable , good looking OS I have used. Your opinion, and like wise I think Irix is the most stable Unix on earth (hence its use in nuclear industries), and it's also the most elegant, but then it makes no difference as to what the OP thinks. >Windows works, but not good looking, stable..mmm not like OSX IMHO, each and every OSes/platform out there has its plus and minuses, I like the start button more than the dock for instance, and a scroll mouse with right click context instead of a single button mouse ... I also prefer responsiveness (say of Irix) instead of eye candy (in OSX..) >Linux is good , but sit down and do a lot of reading, and try and figure out >how to install files etc... I also like Linux for all the 'free'apps available (in binaries), and am not sure what you mean with reading...If anything Linux has actually helped with the transition from OS9 to OSX for me. What am I trying to say? Every OS has its place, to the OP, read up and get yourself a two button mouse for a more familiar experience ... Cheers > > What is the real purpose of this operating system? > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Anyone know a good url that covers handy keystroke combinations? I think the Mac is intuative it has been for me and I didn't take up computing until late in my 50s,I think it's more to do with you being used to Windows. If you aren't too proud the help window on the Mac is quite useful for those simple things that confound. The Apple site itself has handy info for those switching over as you are,if you must throw you're G4 out throw it my way will you? ;-). Signatureannieb A. Top Posters Q. What's the most annoying thing on the usenet? > Maybe there is someone here willing to explain a few of these basics to > me, without being a smart-arse about it? You have a rant dripping with sarcasm, and then ask for no one to post a smart arse reply? A tall order. Dale Signaturedstanbro@spam.o.matic.bigpond.net.au <snip> > I have a bunch of jpgs on the desktop (not that I wanted them there in > the first place, I'd rather they'd be in a folder. But thats another > story). will have a stab at why/how they ended up on the desktop safari will download to the desktop by default, you can set the download via preferences (Apple + ,) inside safari, the download location is set from the general options. > So, what I wanted to do is *move* them to a folder I created on another > drive. > > Can I find a simple way to select them all in one hit? Nooooo.... of > course not. So, instead I select everything on the desktop, and deselect > the few icons I don't want moved. This doesn't work, to say the least... selecting single files or groups of files, use (apple + click) on the filename which works just the same as windoze selection does (or did, its been years since I saw that thing) > Anyway, I want to move them. Can I do this? Nope... the option to move > them apparently isn't there. WTF?? Why is this option not in the context > menu???????? Is this such an exotic concept? very likely its the product of the same person who thinks a single button mouse is a good idea this is one of the things that drives me nuts with finder, and another reason to open a terminal session and use mv > Okay, I'll COPY them and then go through the whole process again, except > this time I'll delete the originals, so I think... (haha, yeah sure mate :) [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Does this work? Nooooo... any jpg I move off the drive icon gets > replaced by another... I guess this is some 'feature' I am not aware of? not a feature, its a sign of far too many files on the desktop, set the finder display mode to list which will let you see whats where > Then I get the idea of deleting, sorry, "move to trash", then maybe copy > move or otherwise beg OSX to put the files into a folder I made on > another drive. Yeah, right... "The items on the clipboard cannot be > pasted to this location" > f.cking unbelievable... this other drive, what is it? physical drive? network share? > I got another, similar msg when later trying to move them from the > desktop to another folder as well. > > This is only the start, but you get the picture. > Oh, and delete key doesn't even do anything! deleting files from finder is (apple + delete) > And why cant I have more than one directory window open?! open finder, then use (apple + n) which will open another finder window > Anyway... > > Maybe there is someone here willing to explain a few of these basics to > me, without being a smart-arse about it? post your question here, no question is too simple > I couldn't care less about the PC vs Mac bullshit, I'm an enthusiast, > which is why I run multiple platforms... but man, I don't know WHAT it > is about Macs, but they have me STUMPED. ask for help when you get the problems, their are many people around here who can help you > I admit it. I've never posted anything like this before, I've persevered > with various flavours of Linux and Windows and prevailed. > But not with OS X - the only OS that I cannot figure out. > > So, can anyone explain to me how I can *move* a bunch of files from one > place, to another place? I cannot believe I am asking such a question :\ to be honest, I tend to do just about all file maintenance from the command line you can find all your mounted volumes under /Volumes with your home directory being /Users/username (cd ~ works). Your desktop is ~/Desktop > Thanks for listening to my (incoherent) rant, and a big thanks to anyone > who is silly enough to want to help me ;) been where you are, its not fun, just count your self lucky your not trying OS9 (sorry classic fans, but its a pet hate) i have administrated quite a few systems and don't understand why osx needs you to press 2 keys to delete something... shouldn't they rename the "Delete" key to "Backspace"? Still, a minor issue... once you know the key combination, and it's kinda intuitive. If in doubt, I always try APPLE + Key, just to see what happens. Another funny thing is when you select a file and press Enter, OSX lets you rename the file, whereas Windows Opens the file. There are inconsistencies in every interface, that's why it's fun. If you want to see what OS X is good for, go get Quicksilver.... it's bliss. > i have administrated quite a few systems and don't understand why osx > needs you to press 2 keys to delete something... Possibly because it is less likely to hit two keys at the same time ....by accident? > shouldn't they rename the "Delete" key to "Backspace"? Possibly but then someone will say .....'If I select a block of text, and press 'Backspace' it deletes it! shouldn't they rename the "Backspace" key to "Delete"? ;=) > Still, a minor issue... once you know the key combination, and it's > kinda intuitive. If in doubt, I always try APPLE + Key, just to see > what happens. Me too! > Another funny thing is when you select a file and press Enter, OSX lets > you rename the file, whereas Windows Opens the file. > > There are inconsistencies in every interface, that's why it's fun. Just a small point, why do you consider it an inconsistency that OS X doesn't act in exactly the same way as Windows in the example that you gave, couldn't it simply be that OS X got it right? ;=) > What is the real purpose of this operating system? It is there to irritate Jeßus into a troll! Haha... Good try, not a single bit of relevant actual usage problem to support those claims. Nice waste of 15mins of Jeßus' infinite life span... -- > What is the real purpose of this operating system? > Its sure as fvck isn't for the user... some ppl must have a sick sense > of humour out there, that's for sure. It is just different, that is all. After 16 months of using OS X (Unix and Windows background) I've finally stopped trying to do things the Windows way. That mostly seemed to be to look for a more complicated method. > After a few months of daily use, I actually reached the point this > morning where I *almost* considered throwing this G4 out the window, if > only for the temporary relief it would bring. Seriously. I can relate to that, having moved to a Mac after coming very close to putting an axe through an IBM Thinkpad. > I can't get /anything/ worthwhile done on a Mac! > I realise that many of you can get things done... so what is the > secret?????? I took mine as my only computer on a 10 week drive around Australia. With no choice, I eventually learned to get along with it. > I have a bunch of jpgs on the desktop (not that I wanted them there in > the first place, I'd rather they'd be in a folder. But thats another story). I believe someone has mentioned using Safari, Preferences, General to set your download area to a folder that works better for you than Desktop. I am assuming here the photos came via Safari. > So, what I wanted to do is *move* them to a folder I created on another > drive. By default OS X moves files only on the same drive. It copies by default to another drive. Not always what you want, but I can see the logic of it. Did you try holding the Command key when you dragged them? >Can I find a simple way to select them all in one hit? Do it in Finder. Change Finder to List view by clicking the little list icon (or use View as List, or Command 2). In View Options (or Command J) bring up the view manager. That lets you decide which parts of the file details are shown in columns in list view, either on that Window or on all of them. Tick Type of file. In List view, click the top of the Type of file column, and this will sort your files by type. It is now easy to select all the jpgs or whatever. > Problem: the files seemingly copy (about 60 files) but then suddenly it > is copying THOUSANDS of files... system files etc. Did you discover in Finder, Edit, the command Undo? (Command Z) > And why cant I have more than one directory window open?! Don't understand this. You can have whatever number you like open. I have 5 open at the moment. As far as I can tell, the only way to learn the Mac stuff is to sit and play around with it. Just with it. Do not return to Windows or Linux to get this or that done. It took me about three months at least before I stopped trying to do things the hard way, and just started clicking on things (and using every meta key, just in case an extra command was hidden there). Signaturehttp://www.ericlindsay.com I'm betting you failed to RTFI's as the Mac is the easiest to use of them all. Once you learn how to use it you'll kick yourself in the a.s for every having used anything else. > Thanks for listening to my (incoherent) rant, and a big thanks to > anyone who is silly enough to want to help me ;) Go buy a PC .... you'll be much happier putting it back together every week after some virus or another has go in amongst it and destroyed everything ... for the pics ... click on the first one and then hold the Command button down ... the one with the picture of an apple on it ... and then click on whatever other pics you want ... when you have selected what you want let the button go and drag the lot to where ever you want 'em .... have fun .... Muz > > Thanks for listening to my (incoherent) rant, and a big thanks to > > anyone who is silly enough to want to help me ;) [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > selected what you want let the button go and drag the lot to where ever > you want 'em .... have fun .... Muz I find it interesting, the number of people only talking about holding down the Command key. On the desktop itself it makes no difference whether you use Command or Shift. In list or column views it makes a significant difference. Many people have advocated list view, ignoring column view (which I find quite useful). I think this is one of the strengths of OSX, but also one of its weaknesses: Just like English, it is very versatile and can be a powerful tool for an experienced user, but can also be hard to learn for someone who is used to a different "tongue" and is looking for "consistency" or similarity to what they already know. I'm sure many similar "rants" can be heard from people learning English as a second ( or third...) language. The OP just needs to approach this OS as if they were learning a new language and assume nothing is the same as what they already know. Getting a two button scroll mouse if that's what they're used to wouldn't hurt though... ;-) Cheers, Anthony ---------------- Just Bill Gates wife why he is known as Mr MicroSoft |
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