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Mac Forum / Applications / Mac Applications / February 2005



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FTP and file creator attributes

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Angie_hfx - 07 Feb 2005 18:04 GMT
Hi

I am using Mac OS X (10.3.7) and the computer I'm connecting to is same

OS.

I find that transferring files using "connect to server' apple file
sharing terribly slow, but it does keep file attributes intact.

I have tried out a couple of FTP applications and they are blazingly
fast, but then I find I lose all of the type/creator attributes of most

of the files, unless lets say they are JPG files.  (for instance, I
lose pagemaker file attributes, and then the file won't open).

The files I have to transfer are more than a few, and this will be on a

regular basis.  Last night I just used a creator changer program and
went through and re-set the attributes of each file, but there's GOT to

be e better way.

I looked through the help docs in the program I tried (interarchy) and
it suggested a couple of things, like setting the transfer to
Macbinary.  That did not do it. I also tried 'captain ftp" and I've
been using Vicomsoft for a few years for compressed files.

What I'd like to know is.. either a) what am I missing or b) are there
any FTP programs that will not cause this to happen?   Oh, and I
should
mention that I am not able to ask the people on the other end to
compress the files so that I can download them.   These are shared
working files in progress - and MANY of them.

Thanks.
Angie_hfx
Tacit - 07 Feb 2005 18:13 GMT
>I have tried out a couple of FTP applications and they are blazingly
>fast, but then I find I lose all of the type/creator attributes of most

Slight correction: you lose the file attributes on all of them. It's just that
the Mac automatically restores this information when it recognizes a file
extension, such as .jpg or .tif.

This is how FTP works.

The Mac file system is quite sophisticated; Mac files have two "parts," called
a "data fork" and a "resource fork," ad other special information, called the
"Finder metadata," which contains the file association and other information.

FTP was invented in a time where files only had one part and when there was no
such thing as Finder metadata. When you use FTP to transfer a file, the
resource fork is removed and the Finder metadata is discarded. This means the
file associations are lost. It also means that Mac-specific files which rely on
the resource fork, such as programs or system files or fonts, are permanently
and irrevocably destroyed by the FTP process, beyond all hope of recovery.

FTP is an inappropriate way to send around mac files.

You have two choices:

1. Send the files using FTP, and make sure you name the files by using PC rules
for file names. For example, PageMaker 6.5 files must have a name that ends in
".p65". This will remove the file associations, but most programs can repair
the associations based n the file name. Note thattransferring Mac-specific
files like fonts or applications will still destroy them.

2. Always use Stuffit to compress the files before you send them. When you
compress a file, the resource fork and Finder metadata are preserved and
protected in a way that makes it safe to transfer the compressed file using
FTP.

3. Use MacBinary. The file will be changed into a special ".bin" file with its
resource fork and Finder metadata protected. in order to use the file after it
has been FTPd, you must decode the MacBinary file to change it back to its
original form. Stuffit Expander can do this.

Hope that helps...

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Angie_hfx - 07 Feb 2005 18:23 GMT
Hi Tacit,

Actually I did know about the data and resource forks of the mac file
system, and some of the other info you mentioned also.

I did actually try to rename the pagemaker files with extensions and
that had no effect after the transfers.  As well, I tried doing 'info'
on the file and then telling it 'open this file with Pagemaker" but I
am thinking the actual 'creator' info must be actually _damaged_ in the
transfer, even while using Macbinary.   That is, unless I am just using
the Macbinary transfer preference incorrectly. (totally possible).

I did not find that the files transferred over as .bin files at all..
so it perhaps is the case I'm setting it up wrong.   Looking at the
transcript in the ftp app, it seems to connect as 'macbinary' while
getting the directory information and then when the file transfer
starts, it goes back to 'binary'.

You know though - I had worked more than 12 hours yesterday on the
computer by the time I was doing this, so perhaps my brain needs a
fresh day to work on it.

I do appreciate your help and thank you for responding.
Axel Hammerschmidt - 07 Feb 2005 20:16 GMT
Try Kermit. Kermit should support Macbinary as a file-formatting option
and it kan run on tcp/ip.
Angie_hfx - 07 Feb 2005 20:49 GMT
I actually found a GREAT little program that works exactly for what I
wanted.  It's called iGet, by a company called five speed.  The website
is www.fivespeed.com.
I tried it out and the unregistered version only allows 2 file
transfers per execution of app, but it seemed to work great!  I'm so
happy I went right to Kagi and paid for it.  (shareware $24.95 USD)

It runs over remote login using SSH, so it requires OS X and remote
login enabled.  It has a graphical interface similar to most FTP
programs, but I read that SSH is much more secure also.

All Macintosh file creator attributes on my test transfers remained
totally intact.  The transfer speed was excellent, though it didn't
give me a report on how long, perhaps they'll add this in an upgrade
version.

For anyone looking for file transfer between macs without having to go
through appleshare services, give this one a try.  I hope it works
fairly stable but we'll see with time.

~ Angie
Paul Mitchum - 07 Feb 2005 23:42 GMT
> I did not find that the files transferred over as .bin files at all..
> so it perhaps is the case I'm setting it up wrong.   Looking at the
> transcript in the ftp app, it seems to connect as 'macbinary' while
> getting the directory information and then when the file transfer
> starts, it goes back to 'binary'.

You can explicitly set the transfer mode to MacBinary in Interarchy. I
think it's Listing -> Transfer Mode -> MacBinary.

Also, rtfm. :-)
<http://www.interarchy.com/documentation/7/reference.html#ref_transfermo
de>
Angie_hfx - 08 Feb 2005 00:07 GMT
I actually did read it, but it didn't seem to work for me.  I set
transfer mode to MacBinary.  It specifically says in the docs though
that it has to be encoded as MacBinary on the server side before
downloading or MacBinary code just isn' t there in the first place.
Perhaps someone else can confirm that?

 I was up really late last night though so I might have missed
something.  Anyway, I have my problem solved.

Thanks.
 
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