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Mac Forum / Applications / Mac Applications / March 2005



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EndNote 8

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AES - 07 Feb 2005 16:13 GMT
Been using EndNote citation manager for a decade or more; generally been
pretty satisfied with it.  

Unfortunately, had to upgrade to EndNote 8 with OS X -- and it's lousy,
at its present stage, anyway: full of bugs (including crash-producing
ones), glitches, and dumb programming.

Latest example:  Open the Term window to edit the Term List; hit "R" key
to jump to first term beginning with R;  this term ("Radio" in my case)
appears, highlighted and selected, at the top of the term list window.

Start hitting Down Arrow key to move down from there to the term I want
(happens to be "Rays").  THE LIST INSTANTLY JUMPS BACK BACK UP TO THE
VERY TOP OF THE TERM LIST ("Active files" in my case) AND STARTS
STEPPING DOWN A LINE AT A TIME FROM THERE.

Repeat the process, except do a mouse click on "Radio" attempt to make
sure that term is well and truly selected.  SAME RESULT.

Does EndNote not have a major competitor (ProCite?) in the Mac world.  
Has anyone used it?  How does it compare?
dubujiwe@gmail.com - 03 Mar 2005 18:59 GMT
> Unfortunately, had to upgrade to EndNote 8 with OS X -- and it's lousy,
> at its present stage, anyway: full of bugs (including crash-producing

> ones), glitches, and dumb programming.
...
> Does EndNote not have a major competitor (ProCite?) in the Mac world.

> Has anyone used it?  How does it compare?

I think Bookends (also version 8 now) is supposed to be good, although
not using it myself.
Check http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/14137

Actually I was thinking about upgrading to Endnote 8 when I heard there
are some bugs in it. I am looking forward for the "unlimited database
size" as my current database is completely full in version 7.

Are the bugs so serious that I should not upgrade?

DJ
AES - 03 Mar 2005 22:33 GMT
> I think Bookends (also version 8 now) is supposed to be good, although
> not using it myself.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Are the bugs so serious that I should not upgrade?

No, I wouldn't say that -- I have encountered a few bugs that seem to be
genuine bugs (one that causes the program to quit unexpectedly), but
nothing seriously disastrous or that loses data.  

It's more in the nature of many awkward, poorly designed or poorly
thought out interface decisions, that seem to make the latest very
unnecessarily complex or hard to use.

For example, EndNote now offers 38 Reference Types (of which I only use
14, even with a diverse database of 3200 scientific references), and
each of these reference types can now potentially have 52 -- count 'em,
52! -- different data fields (of which I use fewer than 20).

That means the Reference Table now has just under 2000 re-label-able and
editable cells -- with no way to edit or even view this table as a
whole, in Excel-like fashion; no way to scan horizontally across one row
of it; and no way to even compare any two columns of it side by side.

This also means that many of the drop-down menus in the rest of the
program are 38 items or 52 items long, when they don't need to be.

I can accept that some users might genuinely need all one thousand nine
hundred and seventy six (1,976) of these reference types and field names
-- but I'd make a small bet that a "Light" option with half as many
types and fields would meet the needs (and simplify the lives) of 90+%
of EndNote users.

As a second example, the reference window (for looking at and editing a
single reference) has a new fixed format with unnecessarily large
spacings between fields such that it's impossible to see all of the
occupied fields of a given reference in the Reference Window, without
extensive vertical scrolling, especially since some of the most
important fields like Keywords, Abstract and Notes are way down in the
list of fields -- and there do not seem to be options or preferences to
minimize the fonts and spacings in the Reference Window, or a global
display option to put the Field Names and field contents in line in the
window, or to not wrap at the window width, so it's one line per field,
or maybe a global option to not display any named but empty fields in
the Reference Window.

There are many other just awkwardly or incompetently programmed little
glitches, e.g., when you tab off the bottom of the reference window it
jumps up to the top field in the window (the Author field) -- but with
the window not quite scrolled all the way to the top, so the top half of
that top field is out of sight under the menu bar, and you have to
hand-scroll the rest of the way.

There's a lot of other discussion on the EndNote mailing list.
Orac - 08 Mar 2005 00:04 GMT
> As a second example, the reference window (for looking at and editing a
> single reference) has a new fixed format with unnecessarily large
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> or maybe a global option to not display any named but empty fields in
> the Reference Window.

Here's another one that's really annoying. The program doesn't
"remember" column widths in the Library View and always reverts back to
a default that is maddening. Every time I start the application and ope
the library, I have to widen the column for the Title field, as it
always reverts back to an unusably narrow width. Then, when searching
PubMed, for some bizarre reason, the search window has the column for
the year really wide and the column for the title again unusably narrow.

Signature

Orac        |"I am not *trying* to tell you anything. I am simply not
           | interested in trying to compensate for your amazing lack
           | of observation."
           |                   http://oracknows.blogspot.com

John Decker - 04 Mar 2005 01:48 GMT
>Been using EndNote citation manager for a decade or more; generally been
>pretty satisfied with it.  
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>Does EndNote not have a major competitor (ProCite?) in the Mac world.  
>Has anyone used it?  How does it compare?
--------------------------------------------------------
Both Procite 5.0 for Mac and Endnote 8.0 for Mac are made by the same company,
therefore I am not
sure if Procite is a legitimate competitor. Furthermore, Procite 5.0 has to be
run in classic mode under
Mac OS 10.3.x. As you have expounded, Endnote 8.0 could use some improvement,
but it is the only
decent bibliography and citation software available that runs native under Mac
OS 10.3.x. Bookends is a
shareware software program that can import Endnote bibliography citations and
but it is not, as yet, a
serious competitor to Endnote. Endnote for Windows has some of the same problems
as the Mac
version and more. Life can be a wincing bitch sometime? Make the best of it and
remember 40 years
ago everyone was using notecards and spending precious time at the library
card-catalog and bitching
about that.

http://www.spacecentersystems.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/267860?re
fsrc=froogle


JD
AES - 04 Mar 2005 05:59 GMT
> Both Procite 5.0 for Mac and Endnote 8.0 for Mac are made by the same company,
> therefore I am not
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> decent bibliography and citation software available that runs native under Mac
> OS 10.3.x.

Thanks . . . looks like that's what we have to live with.

As I said (or intended to convey, anyway), EndNote 8 is not really "bad"
-- just seems to have a certain number of less than thoughtful design
decisions, implemented with less than fully meticulous programming.
turver - 04 Mar 2005 16:51 GMT
>>Both Procite 5.0 for Mac and Endnote 8.0 for Mac are made by the same company,
>>therefore I am not
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> -- just seems to have a certain number of less than thoughtful design
> decisions, implemented with less than fully meticulous programming.

A competitor would be Bibdesk (http://bibdesk.sourceforge.net/), but
that would require you to switch Word processor also... (LateX for Mac OS X)
Dubu Jiwe - 04 Mar 2005 21:52 GMT
Thanks. I have already got the Endnote v.8 now, and it seems to behave
well so far. However, I am going to check this latex-bibdesk
combination too.
Greetings
 
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