Ideal setup for movie editing and burning DVDs

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stevengarcia@yahoo.com - 31 Dec 2004 06:45 GMT

I am considering purchasing an Apple iBook for the main purpose of
movie making/editing and burning to a DVD. There are several routes
that I can take and I'm seeking advice from you.

First, the only thing I currently own is a Plextor DVD +/- R/RW (model
PX-708UF), the external variety. I originally purchased this for my PC
but I have yet to burn one DVD with it.

So, I have heard that Apple iBooks are a great value as compared to the
PowerBooks. Especially since I'm not a power user, I'm leaning heavily
towards an iBook. Now the question becomes, what exactly do I need to
1) edit movies, 2) burn them to DVD?

1) This is probably a bonehead question, but is my Plextor compatible
with an iBook? I assume the hardware is, it's IEEE 1394 compliant so
it will plug into the iBook's firewire port. But I need software for
it that will work with a Mac. It comes with Easy CD & DVD Creator 6,
PhotoSuite 5 SE, Toast 5 Lite. Are these programs good/bad? What are
users experiences with these?

If I go with an iBook, I can ...

1) purchase the 12", use my Plextor, get the appropriate software for
movie editing and burning (which is?) and I'm all set. I'll probably
have to buy more RAM to bump up my iBook to at least 768MB, and
probably get more disk space (I heard firewire external harddrives are
easy to use and relatively cheap.)

2) purchase the 14" w/o super drive, use my Plextor, get software and
I'm all set. However I'm not sure what the 14" gives me over the 12",
besides a bigger viewing area. Plus the resolutions are the same so
I'm not really getting all that much. Unless someone can convince me
that a 1.33GHz is far superior than a 1.2 GHz for movie editing, I'm
not sure this is viable for me.

3) sell the Plextor, buy the 14" w/ super drive, and I have everything
I need to edit movies and burn DVDs. Again I'll probably have to get
more RAM and perhaps more disk space.

Any opinions on these different configurations?

One last thing about disk space. How much do I need, approximately
speaking, to edit 1 hour of video? I use 1 hour as a benchmark because
from what I've seen it's hard to record more than 1 hour on one
physical medium for a camcorder.

Thanks for your help, Steve

Reply to this Message

sbt - 31 Dec 2004 14:28 GMT

> I am considering purchasing an Apple iBook for the main purpose of
> movie making/editing and burning to a DVD. There are several routes
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> PhotoSuite 5 SE, Toast 5 Lite. Are these programs good/bad? What are
> users experiences with these?

A couple of those programs are for Windows and irrelevant to this
discussion. Toast 5 Lite is for Macs, but is seriously out-of-date. Buy
Toast 6 Titanium for burning CDs & DVDs.

> If I go with an iBook, I can ...
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> probably get more disk space (I heard firewire external harddrives are
> easy to use and relatively cheap.)

More RAM would definitely be a good idea. Toast 6 is the burning app,
and it will do the encoding as well, but is not real fast on the
encoding. ffmpegX (shareware) is the power-user's encoding tool under
OS X. For editing, you have iMovie -- it comes with the iBook. If you
search around the net, you can probably find the hack that lets you use
iDVD to burn to unsupported drives, such as your Plextor.

> 2) purchase the 14" w/o super drive, use my Plextor, get software and
> I'm all set. However I'm not sure what the 14" gives me over the 12",
> besides a bigger viewing area. Plus the resolutions are the same so
> I'm not really getting all that much. Unless someone can convince me
> that a 1.33GHz is far superior than a 1.2 GHz for movie editing, I'm
> not sure this is viable for me.

My recommendation is to check out the screens of both models and see
whether the pixel size on the 12" is sufficient -- some people find the
text a little harder to read in the smaller size. 1.33GHz isn't "far"
superior, but every little bit helps in the encoding phase.

> 3) sell the Plextor, buy the 14" w/ super drive, and I have everything
> I need to edit movies and burn DVDs. Again I'll probably have to get
> more RAM and perhaps more disk space.

This is a good option also, especially with more RAM. DV Stream video
(what iMovie works with) runs about 200MB/minute, so 1 hour of video is
going to be over 12GB, not counting whatever format you encode to.
Going to DVD is going to result in a total of around 16GB at
conclusion, but will require another 5GB or so during the
encoding/authoring process for temporary files.

> Any opinions on these different configurations?
>
> One last thing about disk space. How much do I need, approximately
> speaking, to edit 1 hour of video? I use 1 hour as a benchmark because
> from what I've seen it's hard to record more than 1 hour on one
> physical medium for a camcorder.

For video editing/authoring, I recommend getting as much RAM and disk
space as you can. Content expands to fill your free space with amazing
rapidity once you get hooked. 160GB external FireWire drives are
readily available for $120 or less.

> Thanks for your help, Steve

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D P Schreber - 31 Dec 2004 14:59 GMT

> I am considering purchasing an Apple iBook for the main purpose of
> movie making/editing and burning to a DVD.

Do you need portability? You're paying a lot for it, and this class of
machine isn't ideal for movie-making anyway. It makes much more sense
to get a G5 iMac unless you really need a portable machine.

> So, I have heard that Apple iBooks are a great value as compared to the
> PowerBooks.

<shrug> The PowerBooks are nicer and they cost more. Neither is a
better "value" than the other -- and neither is exactly ideal for video
work.

> towards an iBook. Now the question becomes, what exactly do I need to
> 1) edit movies

iMovie, which will come with the Mac.

> 2) burn them to DVD?

Although it's possible to use iDVD with external drives, it depends on
using an unsupported hack. If you don't get a Mac with a SuperDrive,
buy a copy of Toast (the full commercial version, not the 'lite'
version) and use that instead. Toast can burn a dvd with iMovie's
output.

> 1) purchase the 12", use my Plextor, get the appropriate software for
> movie editing and burning (which is?) and I'm all set. I'll probably
> have to buy more RAM to bump up my iBook to at least 768MB, and
> probably get more disk space

Definitely max out the ram no matter what Mac you get, and get the
largest internal drive you can. If you buy a copy of Toast, you should
be able to make your movies with this configuration, at least as long as
they're not too long.

> (I heard firewire external harddrives are
> easy to use and relatively cheap.)

An internal drive will do better in this context. Keep in mind that the
iBook has one firewire port. If you have a camera connected to it for
video capture, you can't have an external drive connected at the same
time. You can buy a firewire hub, but you'll be stressing it with that
much data. Better to capture to an internal drive if possible.

> 3) sell the Plextor, buy the 14" w/ super drive, and I have everything
> I need to edit movies and burn DVDs. Again I'll probably have to get
> more RAM and perhaps more disk space.

If you really need the portability of a laptop and you don't want to
fuss around a lot with hardware and software, this is probably your best
option. Imo the 30GB disc in the 12" isn't big enough for video. For
that reason alone, I tnink the 14" makes more sense. And once you've
gone to the the 14", you might as well get the SuperDrive.

If you don't need portability, get an iMac.

> One last thing about disk space. How much do I need, approximately
> speaking, to edit 1 hour of video?

An hour of DV uses a little over 11GB. iDVD also needs a fair amount
of free space to do its job (about the size of dvd disc image, I think).

Btw, according to the Mac rumor sites, new versions of the iLife tools
will be announced next month. These sites are wrong more often than
they're right, but if you're not in a hurry, you might as well wait a
few weeks and see what happens.

Reply to this Message

stevengarcia@yahoo.com - 31 Dec 2004 19:15 GMT

> Do you need portability? You're paying a lot for it, and this class of
> machine isn't ideal for movie-making anyway. It makes much more sense
> to get a G5 iMac unless you really need a portable machine.

Yea. I probably don't *need* portability but it is so nice to do
things from places other than your desk. So I'm going with a laptop.
If I wanted to be a serious video editor then I would get a desktop.

> <shrug> The PowerBooks are nicer and they cost more. Neither is a
> better "value" than the other -- and neither is exactly ideal for video
> work.

Well, I didn't get that out of the blue, but I can't argue one way or
the other. I'm going off an opinion of a friend whom I respect very
much when it comes down to these kinds of things. But I understand my
comment is subjective.

> > towards an iBook. Now the question becomes, what exactly do I need to
> > 1) edit movies
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> version) and use that instead. Toast can burn a dvd with iMovie's
> output.

OK, so iDVD comes with the Mac, and can use that with the Super Drive,
or go get Toast to use with the Plextor (like someone else recommended
on this thread.)

> Definitely max out the ram no matter what Mac you get, and get the
> largest internal drive you can. If you buy a copy of Toast, you should
> be able to make your movies with this configuration, at least as long as
> they're not too long.
>
> > (I heard firewire external harddrives are easy to use and

relatively

> > cheap.)
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> If you don't need portability, get an iMac.

Well I would like portability. I'll be using the iBook more for
surfing, emailing, and learning more about Unix than for video editing
in the long run. I don't have any plans in the near (4-5 years) future
to do heavy video editing, I'm going to be taking home movies.

I guess I'm leaning slighly towards getting the 14" w/ super drive,
only because I don't want the hassle of some of the other things (like
small disk space, external burner). I can imagine a scenario where my
iBook has a camcorder, the Plextor, and an external harddrive all
hooked up in one firewire port. Firewire is daisychainable, isn't it?
And it's (truly) hot pluggable so you can plug peripherals in while the
laptop is on. Still, that may not be what I'm looking for. Too much
sh.t to deal with.

Back in the day 5-8 years ago, I enjoyed the challenge of using
technology gadgets, finding hacks, and modifying computer settings for
personal gratification/edification. Now I just want things to work
with as little hassle as possible. I would really like to get an iBook
for $1,000, but that is relative to the Apple pricing scheme. If the
cheapest Apple laptop was $2,500 then I would want a laptop for that
amount. If the cheapest one was $375, then I would want to pay that.

Something just occurred to me. If I want portability, then using my
Plextor obviates the advantages of using a laptop. The whole purpose
of having a laptop is I can take videos at my parents house and then
burn them a DVD right there of it. I don't have to bring it home, burn
it, and send it off to them.

I agree with maxing out the RAM. One thing I can't stand is slow PC
performance doing (relatively) easy tasks (not that burning is
relatively easy, but anyway). I have iTunes on my Dell and when I rip
CD's my whole computer slows to a crawl (it's a PIII 700 MHz).

> > One last thing about disk space. How much do I need, approximately
> > speaking, to edit 1 hour of video?
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> they're right, but if you're not in a hurry, you might as well wait a
> few weeks and see what happens.

I assume iLife tools are the suite of movie/DVD tools, like iMovie and
iDVD?
I can wait I suppose, but not long. We are having our first child in a
few weeks so I would like to get going sooner than later. But I don't
even own a camcorder yet. So I can't do any editing until I get one of
those. :)

Thanks again, Steve

Reply to this Message

D P Schreber - 31 Dec 2004 19:57 GMT

> OK, so iDVD comes with the Mac, and can use that with the Super Drive,
> or go get Toast to use with the Plextor (like someone else recommended
> on this thread.)

That's pretty much the choice. It _is_ possible to use iDVD with an
external burner, but it's an unofficial and unsupported feature that
could disappear with the next release.

> I guess I'm leaning slighly towards getting the 14" w/ super drive,
> only because I don't want the hassle of some of the other things (like
> small disk space, external burner). I can imagine a scenario where my
> iBook has a camcorder, the Plextor, and an external harddrive all
> hooked up in one firewire port. Firewire is daisychainable, isn't it?

Yes, though some fw devices only have a single port and so would have to
be at the end of the chain. Your camera could well be one example.
iPods are another. If you have two such devices that you want to have
connected at the same time, you're out of luck unless you buy a hub.
You also need to worry a little about bandwidth in this kind of setup.
That's why it's preferable with video capture to go to an internal disc
rather than to a daisy-chained fw disc.

> Something just occurred to me. If I want portability, then using my
> Plextor obviates the advantages of using a laptop. The whole purpose
> of having a laptop is I can take videos at my parents house and then
> burn them a DVD right there of it. I don't have to bring it home, burn
> it, and send it off to them.

OK, in that case the decision is pretty easy: get an internal superdrive
and a 60GB internal disc. The 14" iBook and the 12" PowerBook are both
available in this configuration. I don't think the 12" iBook is, but
I'm not sure. The PB is of course smaller and lighter, has a
significantly better graphics card, dvi support, a nicer keyboard,
bluetooth, a line-level audio in jack, etc. It's $300 more than the 14"
iBook.

Personally I'd go for the PowerBook, in part because the iBook is big
and heavy without providing any more screen resolution (I find this
annoying) in part because I can use all the extra features: I have a dvi
display I'd want to connect it to, I often record analog audio, I
already own a bluetooth mouse etc. Obviously ymmv. For instance if your
eyes aren't comfortable with 1024x768 on a 12" screen, the 14" iBook is
a major win.

Be prepared to wait a long time for iDVD (or Toast) to encode the video.
The G5s do a lot better in this regard, especially iDVD on a G5, but
looks like there won't be a portable G5 Mac anytime soon.

> I assume iLife tools are the suite of movie/DVD tools, like iMovie and
> iDVD?

iLife is iMovie, iDVD, iPhoto, iTunes and GarageBand. You'll get iLife
with your iBook (or PowerBook).

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stevengarcia@yahoo.com - 31 Dec 2004 21:05 GMT

> OK, in that case the decision is pretty easy: get an internal superdrive
> and a 60GB internal disc. The 14" iBook and the 12" PowerBook are both
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> bluetooth, a line-level audio in jack, etc. It's $300 more than the 14"
> iBook.

I went to the Apple website and I can't find the difference between the
two 14" iBooks besides the existence of the Super Drive. Is that the
only difference?

> Personally I'd go for the PowerBook, in part because the iBook is big
> and heavy without providing any more screen resolution (I find this
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> eyes aren't comfortable with 1024x768 on a 12" screen, the 14" iBook is
> a major win.

Well, I certainly understand and appreciate your opinion. The 14"
iBook is bigger and heavier than the 15" PB? (there isn't a 14" inch
PB). What I'm realizing now is that the cost of this endeavor is
climbing steeply, with an initial price of $1,499 for the IB and
minimum $1,799 for the PB, and with a 768 MB increase in RAM (between
$200 and $300), I'm looking something close to $2K for this.

Mac world is coming around in a few weeks. Apple usually announces new
hardware and software during this exposition. Does Apple also announce
different pricing strategies for their products? Is it possible that
there might be different products for me to choose from in a matter of
weeks?

> Be prepared to wait a long time for iDVD (or Toast) to encode the video.
> The G5s do a lot better in this regard, especially iDVD on a G5, but
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> iLife is iMovie, iDVD, iPhoto, iTunes and GarageBand. You'll get iLife
> with your iBook (or PowerBook).

Reply to this Message

D P Schreber - 31 Dec 2004 22:32 GMT

> Well, I certainly understand and appreciate your opinion. The 14"
> iBook is bigger and heavier than the 15" PB?

Than the 12" powerbook, which has the same processor speed, resolution
and internal disc as the 14" iBook and is likewise available with a
superdrive for $200. That's the comparison I was making. For an extra
$300 you get a nicer machine that's significantly more portable. And
the extra memory, which you certainly need, is $40 less (see below). So
the real difference in price is more like $260. No contest imo.

If you move up to the 15" PB, that's a whole different story (short
summary: much nicer, much more money).

> PB). What I'm realizing now is that the cost of this endeavor is
> climbing steeply, with an initial price of $1,499 for the IB and
> minimum $1,799 for the PB, and with a 768 MB increase in RAM (between
> $200 and $300)

A 512 dimm (for a total of 768) for an 14" iBook is $138 from
crucial.com, an excellent source. For a 12" PB, a 512 dimm is $96 from
crucial. In general you don't want to buy memory from Apple.

But certainly the price is a lot higher if your original thought was a
12" iBook. You can go back to this if you want, given that you already
own a dvd burner. Or sacrifice portability and get a G5 iMac -- lots of
bang for the buck.

> Mac world is coming around in a few weeks. Apple usually announces new
> hardware and software during this exposition. Does Apple also announce
> different pricing strategies for their products? Is it possible that
> there might be different products for me to choose from in a matter of
> weeks?

Sure. There haven't been any rumors about new laptops, but the rumor
mill is frequently wrong, as I think I mentioned earlier in the context
of a new iLife. I would definitely wait at this point.

Reply to this Message

Shawn Hearn - 31 Dec 2004 20:17 GMT

> > Do you need portability? You're paying a lot for it, and this class
> of
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> things from places other than your desk. So I'm going with a laptop.
> If I wanted to be a serious video editor then I would get a desktop.

The problem you have is conflicting needs. Working with video, even as a
hobby requires the largest screen size you can afford and the fastest
machine you can afford. Video sucks up resources like nobody's business.
An iBook is a very poor choice for working with video. Yes, it is nice
to be able to work in different places, but not at the expense of needed
functionality. Stop by a Mac reseller such as CompUSA sometime and bring
a video you made on a DVD and see what a challenge it is to work with
that video on iMovie '04, and you will more than likely opt for an iMac.

Reply to this Message

stevengarcia@yahoo.com - 31 Dec 2004 20:06 GMT

> <shrug> The PowerBooks are nicer and they cost more. Neither is a
> better "value" than the other -- and neither is exactly ideal for video
> work.

OK, so iDVD comes with the Mac, and can use that with the Super Drive,
or go get Toast to use with the Plextor (like someone else recommended
on this thread.)

relatively

> > cheap.)
>
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
>
> If you don't need portability, get an iMac.

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Mac Forum / Applications / Mac Applications / December 2004

Ideal setup for movie editing and burning DVDs