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Mac Forum / Applications / Mac Applications / February 2010What is wrong with Mail?
Can someone help with this problem, that is driving me nuts. I recently switched from Eudora to Mail, and it has been working fine from my office, both sending and receiving mail. (Using 10.4.11). Now I am on the road, and stuck in DC in this snowstorm, and I am connected to AT&T's Wayport. I can open and get mail, and I can send a message to myself from my account. However, I cannot send a message to anyone else - I get this dumb "check SMTP..." message. This is the same outgoing mail server setting that I have been using for years with Eudora (on the road and at home), and which works fine from my office. What the hell is up with this piece of crap called Mail? I wish to God I had stayed with Eudora, but how do I get this damn Mail thing to work as it should? Any help appreciated. In article <clark-6B77BD.18472506022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > Can someone help with this problem, that is driving me nuts. I recently > switched from Eudora to Mail, and it has been working fine from my [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Any help appreciated. AT&T changed their preferred settings for their email service a while ago, so if you're still using very old settings it's time to check the newer and more secure AT&T settings. > Now I am on the road, and stuck in DC in this snowstorm, and I am > connected to AT&T's Wayport. I can open and get mail, and I can send a [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > had stayed with Eudora, but how do I get this damn Mail thing to work as > it should? You don't really give enough data to tell, but as a wild guess, I'd suspect that the wayport is likely blocking the default smtp port (25). Blocking that port as a spam preventative has become common in recent years. None of the data you reported is inconsistent with this. Yes, that kind of thing does change over time. Even if you had used the same wayport some time ago, that doesn't mean it isn't the problem. The best fix for things like that is often to switch to using a different port, most commonly... I think it is port 587 for SSL connections. That assumes that the mail server supports such; most these days do. This would have nothing in particular to do with Mail.app versus Eudora. Might not be your problem, but its the best I can guess from the very limitted data given. In spite of the limitted data, I'd place a modest amount of money (figurative;y speaking) on the guess, though only a modest amount.  SignatureRichard Maine | Good judgment comes from experience; email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment. domain: summertriangle | -- Mark Twain In article <clark-6B77BD.18472506022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > What the hell is up with this piece of crap called Mail? I wish to God I > had stayed with Eudora, but how do I get this damn Mail thing to work as > it should? > > Any help appreciated. Once you stop calling names I am sure you will get help with solving your problem. Mail works reliably, at least for me, and has done so for years and thousands of messages. Eudora was ok good at the time, but when it left out encryption and signing etc, it was time to abandon. While I am at it: SpamSieve might help you against spam, and works well with Mail. HTH Marc Signatureremove bye and from mercial to get valid e-mail <http://www.heusser.com> In article <marc.heusser-83F0A4.12203007022010@news.uzh.ch>, Marc Heusser <marc.heusser@byeheusser.commercialspammers.invalid> wrote: > In article > <clark-6B77BD.18472506022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Once you stop calling names I am sure you will get help with solving > your problem. Don't be so patronizing - this is nonsense that Mail won't do what Eudora has done seamlessly for years. > Mail works reliably, at least for me, and has done so for years and > thousands of messages. Well, bully for you - for me it's currently a crock on the road, which is why I was asking for advice, not lectures. > Eudora was ok good at the time, but when it left out encryption and > signing etc, it was time to abandon. Which is why I moved to Mail. Seems like a big mistake now. > While I am at it: SpamSieve might help you against spam, and works well > with Mail. We have spam filters all over the place on the servers. Spam is not the problem. Thanks so much for the help. > In article <marc.heusser-83F0A4.12203007022010@news.uzh.ch>, > Marc Heusser <marc.heusser@byeheusser.commercialspammers.invalid> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Don't be so patronizing - this is nonsense that Mail won't do what > Eudora has done seamlessly for years. I'd say he was being accurate instead of patronizing. You have jumped to the conclusion that Mail must be at fault and so are bitching about Mail. Odds are high that your conclusion is incorrect and that the problem has nothing to do with Mail. Your bitching about Mail is just a distraction from getting the problem solved - just like calling names is typically a distraction from constructive work. I have several decades of experience in helping people debug various computer problems. A very common theme throughout it all is that people draw a wrong conclusion about what their problem is and thus can't solve it because they are looking in the wrong place. They will then ask for help with what they think their problem is rather than with the real problem. Your data in another post about the behavior observed when you changed ports just reinforces the theory that the problem lies with AT&T blocking port 25. You probably need to add authorization when switching to port 587. SignatureRichard Maine | Good judgment comes from experience; email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment. domain: summertriangle | -- Mark Twain > > In article <marc.heusser-83F0A4.12203007022010@news.uzh.ch>, > > Marc Heusser <marc.heusser@byeheusser.commercialspammers.invalid> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > blocking port 25. You probably need to add authorization when switching > to port 587. I have switched to 587, but it makes no difference. What is it about 587 that makes preferable over 25? In article <clark-108C68.15035407022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > > > In article <marc.heusser-83F0A4.12203007022010@news.uzh.ch>, > > > Marc Heusser <marc.heusser@byeheusser.commercialspammers.invalid> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > I have switched to 587, but it makes no difference. What is it about 587 > that makes preferable over 25? Port 25 is a "known port" (google that) for sendmail, the mail transfer agent widely used on the Internet to send mail between computers (except Windows machines). It's not really "protected" very well and lots of ISP block it on their own servers and on customer's systems to prevent transfer of spam and other malicious program. There are a variety of other ports that can be used with both mail servers (SMTP) or mail clients to connect to an ISP's mail server. Here's a list http://www.mostlygeek.com/tech/smtp-on-port-587/comment-page-1/ SignatureDeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee... [I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically by ignored] On 2/7/10 8:13 AM, "William Clark" <clark@nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote: > In article <marc.heusser-83F0A4.12203007022010@news.uzh.ch>, > Marc Heusser <marc.heusser@byeheusser.commercialspammers.invalid> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Don't be so patronizing - this is nonsense that Mail won't do what > Eudora has done seamlessly for years. I don't see Marc's comments as being patronizing. If anything,he went easy on you. If you want help from people who are knowledgeable about a specific tool, calling it a piece of crap is not a good way to open the discussion. >> Mail works reliably, at least for me, and has done so for years and >> thousands of messages. > > Well, bully for you - for me it's currently a crock on the road, which > is why I was asking for advice, not lectures. Which is why we need more information to begin to help. Just saying that it doesn't work is not enough to go on. There are many users of Mail with many different mail servers that have managed to get it to work smoothly. We should focus on what is different for you. I am not familiar with AT&T 's set up, but have had similar issues with Comcast when they switch configurations. >> Eudora was ok good at the time, but when it left out encryption and >> signing etc, it was time to abandon. > > Which is why I moved to Mail. Seems like a big mistake now. You haven't convinced me that the problem is with Mail and not with the configuration. A valid criticism of Mail may be that it is not providing error messages that help you understand the problem. But the errors returned by mail servers are rather cryptic themselves so Mail may not have much to go on. How about you post the settings that you have for you mail account? There have been a couple of suggestions about port numbers and authentication. Let's work together to see if we can help you. > On 2/7/10 8:13 AM, "William Clark" <clark@nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > If you want help from people who are knowledgeable about a specific tool, > calling it a piece of crap is not a good way to open the discussion. Yes, well if you are stuck in DC in this storm, and can't even send e-mail from the connection you are paying $11 per day for, then you would probably get a little terse, too. I apologize, but that's the reason, and I don't need someone coming on like Aunt Mary - keep that for PC nutters :-) > >> Mail works reliably, at least for me, and has done so for years and > >> thousands of messages. [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > have been a couple of suggestions about port numbers and authentication. > Let's work together to see if we can help you. Here is what puzzles me. If I use the webmail program on my browser, I can both receive and send - it's just miserable to use. So I am connected to two mail servers: mail.ecr6.ohio-state.edu and pop-server.columbus.rr.com for incoming mail and smtp.ecr6.ohio-state.edu and smtp-serever.columbus.rr.com for sending. They are both connected to port 110 in, and to server port 587. I changed to 587 from the original 25 on advice, but it makes no difference. Anything else needed? (And I do appreciate the help :-)) In article <clark-386CFF.14495707022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > Here is what puzzles me. If I use the webmail program on my browser, I > can both receive and send - it's just miserable to use. The web mail program runs on their web server - not your computer. That's quite a critical difference in this case. I suspect your email server is refusing to send email from outside the network on which the server runs. I've given you very precise steps to figure out if this is the case. The ball is now in your court to follow those steps and post the information gleaned from following those steps here for diagnosis. SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR In article <clark-4A57E2.08131207022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > Don't be so patronizing - this is nonsense that Mail won't do what > Eudora has done seamlessly for years. But Mail does do it. And if you'd concentrated on your problem you'd have a fix by now, instead of being added to killfiles. Humility is helpful when you need help. Steve > In article > <clark-4A57E2.08131207022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Steve Fine - good riddance to you. In article <clark-53109D.14413607022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > Fine - good riddance to you. So now we're on to personal attacks? Fine, then: f.ck you, you ignorant, petulant, whiny little sh.t. The newsgroup does not owe you f.cking anything, despite your ignorance, your whining, and your insults. f.ck off and die. Steve > In article > <clark-53109D.14413607022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Steve Oh, grow up. In article <clark-53109D.14413607022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > > In article > > <clark-4A57E2.08131207022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Fine - good riddance to you. I have AT&T/Yahoo configured to use Mail and it works just fine. The email address I use is my AT&T email address _with_ the "@att.net". The Incoming server is pop.att.yahoo.com username is my email address (william.clark@att.net or whatever password is the password I use on the web site to authenticate my account when it was created The outgoing mail server (SMTP) are different than most. Server name: smtp.att.yahoo.com server port: 465 use SSL sockets CHECKED Authentication via PASSWORD username is my email address (william.clark@att.net) password is the account password I also configured postfix on my system so I could connect to the AT&T server via the mail command line. Now calm down, take a Malox and if you want help, be civil. SignatureDeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee... [I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically by ignored] In article <sdfisher-847947.10233507022010@mara100-84.onlink.net>, > In article > <clark-4A57E2.08131207022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Steve What a shame a bloke can't let off a bit of steam in frustration with problems (like William Clarke obviously is experiencing) without him encountering lilly-livered sensitive patronising moralising folk always ready to killfile folk and boast publicly about it. Signaturedorayme > Can someone help with this problem, that is driving me nuts. I recently > switched from Eudora to Mail, and it has been working fine from my [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Any help appreciated. I'd say that your problem is _not_ in Mail. Indeed, I'd say that it's in whatever AT&T has done this time. The 'check SMTP' error means that Mail has sent your request to connect to AT&T and got back something it didn't like. Most likely this was due to AT&T screwing with stuff. See <http://blog.adamnash.com/2008/04/10/how-to-fix-smtp-errors-from-yahooatt-dsl- on-mac-os-x-mail/> for further info. Signatureemail to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com. > > Can someone help with this problem, that is driving me nuts. I recently > > switched from Eudora to Mail, and it has been working fine from my [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > <http://blog.adamnash.com/2008/04/10/how-to-fix-smtp-errors-from-yahooatt-dsl- > on-mac-os-x-mail/> for further info. If I post a message using 25 as the SMTP port I get the "check SMTP . . " error. If I change this port to 587, as was suggested, I get "The sender address clark@matsceng.ohio-state.edu was rejected by the server". Something has changed, but even going through the Yahoo process for this, doesn't work. In article <clark-71217B.11131907022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > If I post a message using 25 as the SMTP port I get the "check SMTP . . > " error. If I change this port to 587, as was suggested, I get "The > sender address clark@matsceng.ohio-state.edu was rejected by the server". > > Something has changed, but even going through the Yahoo process for > this, doesn't work. Does the mail server at ohio-state.edu allow you to send messages from outside of the school network? If not (which is often the case), then that may be the problem. Try sending from another account that you know allows you to send off-network. SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR [snip] > If I post a message using 25 as the SMTP port I get the "check SMTP . . > " error. If I change this port to 587, as was suggested, I get "The > sender address clark@matsceng.ohio-state.edu was rejected by the server". > > Something has changed, but even going through the Yahoo process for > this, doesn't work. If it's similar to my ISP then port 587 requires password authentication whereas port 25 requires you to be logged in to your ISP's server direct. SignatureFred > [snip] > > If I post a message using 25 as the SMTP port I get the "check SMTP . . [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > If it's similar to my ISP then port 587 requires password authentication > whereas port 25 requires you to be logged in to your ISP's server direct. It has prompted me for a password a couple of times and I have given it, but still no joy. > > [snip] > > > If I post a message using 25 as the SMTP port I get the "check SMTP . . [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > It has prompted me for a password a couple of times and I have given it, > but still no joy. I think the password required is usually the one you use to log into your ISP rather than the one you use to connect to email. Is that the one you provided? SignatureFred In article <clark-44088F.14051407022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > > [snip] > > > If I post a message using 25 as the SMTP port I get the "check SMTP . . [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > It has prompted me for a password a couple of times and I have given it, > but still no joy. Why nobody is asking you to paste messages verbatim from the Mail Connection Doctor is beyond me. Knowing the exact email server response is critical to others being able to help you effectively. 1. Open Mail. 2. Ensure Mail is not actively checking any other email accounts. If you have accounts scheduled to be checked regularly, you may want to temporarily take all of them offline. 3. From the Mail menu bar, choose Window > Connection Doctor. 4. Click the Show Detail button. 5. Right-click the Inbox folder for the account in question, and choose Get New Mail from account. 6. Paste the resulting connection doctor output in a post here if you need help figuring out what it means. ..or for a simpler, more direct way, without the potential for confusion from your other email accounts and Mail's own interactions, you could just do as this page describes, as I have already asked you once to do: <http://www.simplescripts.de/smtp-check-port-25-telnet-command.htm> SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR > In article > <clark-44088F.14051407022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > <http://www.simplescripts.de/smtp-check-port-25-telnet-command.htm> Perhaps it is because I am on 10.4.11, but I don't get the option to Show Detail on the Connection Doctor. It just shows both my other accounts connected to the internet. On 2/7/10 6:10 PM, "William Clark" <clark@nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote: >> Why nobody is asking you to paste messages verbatim from the Mail >> Connection Doctor is beyond me. Knowing the exact email server response >> is critical to others being able to help you effectively. >> ..or for a simpler, more direct way, without the potential for confusion >> from your other email accounts and Mail's own interactions, you could [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Show Detail on the Connection Doctor. It just shows both my other > accounts connected to the internet. That helps - some. Most of us are running a more recent version of Mac OS. I admit that I don't remember the precise details of Mail under 10.4 . At that time, Comcast had not moved off the default port numbers. Look at Mail -> Preferences -> Accounts. What does that show under the Accounts and Advanced tabs? Make sure that you password is entered in Accounts screen and the Advanced tab shows authenticate with password. Also make sure that the outgoing mail is sent to the SMTP server for your service. In article <clark-48404E.18102807022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > > In article > > <clark-44088F.14051407022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > Show Detail on the Connection Doctor. It just shows both my other > accounts connected to the internet. Then follow the directions on the web page for crying out loud: <http://www.simplescripts.de/smtp-check-port-25-telnet-command.htm> This is the third time I am asking. How many more times do I have to ask you to do it? I'm trying to help YOU, for Pete's sake. The least you could do is try... SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR > 1. Open Mail. > 2. Ensure Mail is not actively checking any other email accounts. If you [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > 6. Paste the resulting connection doctor output in a post here if you > need help figuring out what it means. I've been wondering whether to try this for the next time I visit my daughter, so I just tried to follow the above instructions, but I have no Show Detail button. I do have some details showing, but they list my five mail addresses AND one that just says mail.chibardun.net, which I suspect might be the outgoing mail from all of them, as all the separate addresses receive mail wherever I am but none can send away from home. SignatureErilar, biblioholic medievalist http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo > > 1. Open Mail. > > 2. Ensure Mail is not actively checking any other email accounts. If you [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > suspect might be the outgoing mail from all of them, as all the separate > addresses receive mail wherever I am but none can send away from home. Then you must be using an old version of Mail. SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR > > I've been wondering whether to try this for the next time I visit my > > daughter, so I just tried to follow the above instructions, but I have [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Then you must be using an old version of Mail. It says 2.1.3 Is that old? I've told Software Update to shut up because it's forever bothering me to update stuff I never use. A mistake, perhaps 8-) SignatureErilar, biblioholic medievalist http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo >>> I've been wondering whether to try this for the next time I visit my >>> daughter, so I just tried to follow the above instructions, but I have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > It says 2.1.3 Is that old? Fairly. The current version is 4.2. Are you still running Tiger? > I've told Software Update to shut up > because it's forever bothering me to update stuff I never use. A > mistake, perhaps 8-) You really should at least install the security updates. Signatureemail to oshea dot j dot j at gmail dot com. > >>> I've been wondering whether to try this for the next time I visit my > >>> daughter, so I just tried to follow the above instructions, but I have [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Fairly. The current version is 4.2. Are you still running Tiger? OS 10.4.11 > > I've told Software Update to shut up > > because it's forever bothering me to update stuff I never use. A > > mistake, perhaps 8-) > > You really should at least install the security updates. Oh, I do that now and again. I probably didn't notice the Mail updates. Either that, or I didn't want to chance having it "updated" to the point of making it less convenient, which is what happens to me with 9 out of 10 "updates". I mistakenly "updated" Firefox, found the newer version still suffered the same gremlin I had in the old one and it was LESS useful for what I was still using it for. Getting back to my favorite version was a major chore. So I generally accept security updates and whatever they do to Safari and keep using my older versions of most programs I'm happy with. SignatureErilar, biblioholic medievalist http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo > > >>> I've been wondering whether to try this for the next time I visit my > > >>> daughter, so I just tried to follow the above instructions, but I have [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > OS 10.4.11 No wonder. Mac OS X has had two major releases since 10.4. You should really consider upgrading. ; ) SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR > > OS 10.4.11 > > No wonder. Mac OS X has had two major releases since 10.4. You should > really consider upgrading. ; ) I'm afraid of losing software I use constantly, to be honest. I've been hit with that before on upgrades. I still miss being able to use things I lost with the upgrade to OS 10 on my laptop(some of which I have stashed on the G4, which is still 9.2.2), even if it DOES have a lot more RAM(for which I bought it, mostly) Yes, I know I sound like a Luddite, but I subscribe rather strongly to "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" 8-) SignatureErilar, biblioholic medievalist http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo > > > OS 10.4.11 > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > Yes, I know I sound like a Luddite, but I subscribe rather strongly to > "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" 8-) Only in this case, it's broke... SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR On Sat, 6 Feb 2010 18:47:25 -0500, William Clark wrote > > > What the hell is up with this piece of crap called Mail? I wish to God I > > > had stayed with Eudora, but how do I get this damn Mail thing to work as > > > it should? If I were you with this problem I would switch now and for all to Gmail. End of problems. H >>>> What the hell is up with this piece of crap called Mail? I wish to God I >>>> had stayed with Eudora, but how do I get this damn Mail thing to work as >>>> it should? > > If I were you with this problem I would switch now and for all to Gmail. > End of problems. I'm a user of Mail and have no recollections of ever experiencing a problem with it. My incoming mail is sorted according to the rules I have established, and I have never been informed of any problems with my outgoing mail. Perhaps this is because I receive and send mail from MobileMe. -- James Leo Ryan --- Austin, Texas --- taliesinsoft@me.com > >>>> What the hell is up with this piece of crap called Mail? I wish to God I > >>>> had stayed with Eudora, but how do I get this damn Mail thing to work as [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > my outgoing mail. Perhaps this is because I receive and send mail from > MobileMe. Yes. We had problems when travelling to the US exactly like the OP. We changed our corp hosting to Gmail, retained our domain name and are problem free now. H > > >>>> What the hell is up with this piece of crap called Mail? I wish to God > > >>>> I [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > changed our corp hosting to Gmail, retained our domain name and are > problem free now. As someone else observed, the problem is almost certainly not with Mail, but with the way it is set up -- i.e. it was not told how to communicate properly with a given POP or SMTP server. My suspicion is that somebody has given Mail the wrong port numbers. A phone call to the ISP will reveal the correct ones (and usually, help in getting it set up correctly). Isaac > > > >>>> What the hell is up with this piece of crap called Mail? I wish to > > > >>>> God [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > Isaac OK, I believe I located the problem. First I changed the Server port to 587, as advised. Then I also set up "Authentication", to use a "Password", and gave it my local username and password. Then both in and out mail seems to work, and it now also works now that I am back home. I did not have to use the username/password combo on my local server from my office. To me the problem does lie with Mail, not because the program is faulty per se, but because it gives absolutely no assistance to anyone setting it up - you have to figure it our by yourself (or with help from this ng). Most similar programs have some sort of interactive dialog built in to help the ignorant. Thanks again for all your help. I wish that Apple had been as thoughtful :-) In article <clark-DF725D.16273310022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > To me the problem does lie with Mail, not because the program is faulty > per se, but because it gives absolutely no assistance to anyone setting > it up - you have to figure it our by yourself (or with help from this > ng). Most similar programs have some sort of interactive dialog built in > to help the ignorant. I don't know how Apple can be responsible for the setup quirks that every mail server in the world might implement. It would seem to me that the mail server's organization should publish setup instructions for their server on a few, if not most of the mail clients in common use. One or two examples are usually enough to help set up a client for which there are no specific instructions. SignatureTom Stiller PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF > In article > <clark-DF725D.16273310022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I don't know how Apple can be responsible for the setup quirks that > every mail server in the world might implement. Fair enough, but it really is not a quirky set up - it's about as vanilla as can be for someone on the road. > It would seem to me that the mail server's organization should publish > setup instructions for their server on a few, if not most of the mail > clients in common use. One or two examples are usually enough to help > set up a client for which there are no specific instructions. Such examples could have been included with Mail. > > It would seem to me that the mail server's organization should publish > > setup instructions for their server on a few, if not most of the mail > > clients in common use. One or two examples are usually enough to help > > set up a client for which there are no specific instructions. > > Such examples could have been included with Mail. He meant one or two examples from the mail server's organization. Seeing instructions for, say, Outlook Express and Thunderbird, should help one figure out how to set up other mail clients using the specified settings. > Fair enough, but it really is not a quirky set up - it's about as > vanilla as can be for someone on the road. Vanilla? Well, if we're using that analogy, have you ever noticed how many varieties of vanilla ice cream one brand may sell? Setting up to use an SMTP server could require just port 25, 465, just port 587, it could allow 465 and 587 (but usually not 25 if it includes those two). Password authentication is pretty standard, but it can require just the user name or the entire email address. SSL may be required, and if it's not, having it on generally won't work. Comcast for the longest time had port 25 without authentication when you're at home using their cable internet, some variation of the above when you're away, and while they haven't officially abandoned port 25, no authentication, sometimes it simply stops working reliably or at all for some users. AT&T has been setting up new users and attempting to migrate old users to their Yahoo servers. Here, in former Bellsouth country, the old mail.bellsouth.net on port 25 with no authentication, never fails to work when one's at home, but the Yahoo smtp settings are far from reliable from any location. SignatureMy latest dance performance <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_9pudbFisE> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> In article <clark-54710F.08095611022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > > In article > > <clark-DF725D.16273310022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Such examples could have been included with Mail. And which mail server organizations should Apple have offended by omitting them. The Mail help section on adding accounts leads you to <https://support.apple.com/kb/HT1277> which would have aided you in obtaining the proper configuration. SignatureTom Stiller PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF > In article > <clark-54710F.08095611022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > <https://support.apple.com/kb/HT1277> which would have aided you in > obtaining the proper configuration. Well, it didn't, because I could not find anything that referred to anything prior to 10.5. > > The Mail help section on adding accounts leads you to > > <https://support.apple.com/kb/HT1277> which would have aided you in > > obtaining the proper configuration. > > Well, it didn't, because I could not find anything that referred to > anything prior to 10.5. Before you responde, did you even look at the page Tom provided? Apparently not, because it says: "Products Affected Mail, Mac OS X 10.4, Mac OS X 10.3, Mac OS X 10.2, Mac OS X 10.1, Mac OS X 10.5, Mac OS X 10.6, iPhone" "Are you having issues sending, receiving, or configuring Mail? If so, ask your Internet service provider (or email provider if it's different than your ISP) the following questions to verify that your account is set up correctly in Mail. You can print (or copy and paste to a text document) and keep this "cheat sheet" to record your email provider's settings for future reference. This sheet can make it easier for you when configuring Mail in Mac OS X or on iPhone or iPod touch, or when contacting your provider." It then provides a table with all the server settings one needs to know from their mail hosting provider to configure _any_ mail client. SignatureMy latest dance performance <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_9pudbFisE> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> > > > The Mail help section on adding accounts leads you to > > > <https://support.apple.com/kb/HT1277> which would have aided you in [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > It then provides a table with all the server settings one needs to know > from their mail hosting provider to configure _any_ mail client. That would have helped, but I didn't get pointed to that from the program, only to the page set for 10.5 only. The other problem is that the intermediate provider at the hotel was AT&T, my home ISPs are a university one and RoadRunner. If you have ever tried dealing with AT&T from a hotel, then you can understand the level of frustration. I spent well over two hours just trying to get to talk to someone there who had a clue about Mail. > Well, it didn't, because I could not find anything that referred to > anything prior to 10.5. Whine, whine, whine. Look, your posts prove you're lazy. You didn't upgrade, you didn't search. There's nothing wrong with that. Until you insist on blaming everyone else. That's when you become a lazy moron instead of just lazy. > > Well, it didn't, because I could not find anything that referred to > > anything prior to 10.5. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > insist on blaming everyone else. That's when you become a lazy moron > instead of just lazy. I didn't upgrade this machine because I have scientific apps on it that I need for research which have not all been migrated to 10.5. Plus, my travel machine is a PowerBook G4. So in future, I suggest finding out a little more about someone's situation before you get so arrogantly Protestant with them. Otherwise you become nothing more than a lazy moron. > > Well, it didn't, because I could not find anything that referred to > > anything prior to 10.5. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > insist on blaming everyone else. That's when you become a lazy moron > instead of just lazy. Stop being such a twerp and attacking the guy so much. It is you that is doing a lot of the whining, it is just that you are packaging the whinging differently. Signaturedorayme > Stop being such a twerp and attacking the guy so much. It is you > that is doing a lot of the whining, it is just that you are > packaging the whinging differently. Just killfile me if you don't like my posts, as I'm going to killfile you. > > Stop being such a twerp and attacking the guy so much. It is you > > that is doing a lot of the whining, it is just that you are > > packaging the whinging differently. > > Just killfile me if you don't like my posts, as I'm going to killfile you. Note how this creep thinks all is about irrelevant things like boasting about killfiling people (the Jolly Roger disease) and liking things. Signaturedorayme > Note how this creep thinks all is about irrelevant things like > boasting about killfiling people (the Jolly Roger disease) and > liking things. No, I just noticed you pull topics into meta arguments on penis size and other irrelevancies frequently. That doesn't interest me. Stay on topic. > > Note how this creep thinks all is about irrelevant things like > > boasting about killfiling people (the Jolly Roger disease) and [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and other irrelevancies frequently. That doesn't interest me. Stay on > topic. I have no idea what you are babbling about. I do not discuss sexual matters on usenet. You really need to control yourself, take an anger management course, stop getting excited. Persuade Jolly Roger (who actually gets pissed off if the people he is trying so desperately to help do not do exactly what he says to do). Because he cannot understand that folk are more complicated than Texan Bush type "you are for or against us", he just treats the people he is trying to help with contempt. Why go down this road? Me unjustifiably irrelevant on usenet? Now I know you are kidding. Look, I'd love to sit and chat to you but I am a bit busy. Please say nothing more to me unless you are going to be nice. Signaturedorayme > Please say nothing more to me unless you are going to be nice. Please remember you said that the next time YOU reply to ME. Your rudeness TO ME was how this started, remember? You deserve a lot more rudeness, but I find it takes a lot of effort for me, and I just can't be bothered. > You deserve a lot more rudeness, but I find it takes a lot of effort > for me, and I just can't be bothered. Oh, you should see the fun banter she and "Nick Naym" had a while back! SignatureMy latest dance performance <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_9pudbFisE> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> >> You deserve a lot more rudeness, but I find it takes a lot of effort >> for me, and I just can't be bothered. > > Oh, you should see the fun banter she and "Nick Naym" had a while back! Ah, that's a relief. I'll let someone it comes more naturally to do it. I'm Canadian, after all: polite and apathetic. See? I couldn't even muster up an exclamation point there. :) > >> You deserve a lot more rudeness, but I find it takes a lot of effort > >> for me, and I just can't be bothered. > > > > Oh, you should see the fun banter she and "Nick Naym" had a while back! > > Ah, that's a relief. I'll let someone it comes more naturally to do it. Well, actually, in that thread it was "Nick" I found more objectionable. > I'm Canadian, after all: polite and apathetic. See? I couldn't even > muster up an exclamation point there. :) Must... resist... urge... SignatureMy latest dance performance <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_9pudbFisE> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> > >> You deserve a lot more rudeness, but I find it takes a lot of effort > >> for me, and I just can't be bothered. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I'm Canadian, after all: polite and apathetic. See? I couldn't even > muster up an exclamation point there. :) There was a wonderful thread recently where a Canadian attacks a Yank viciously, the point being that Canadians can be not so polite! Forthright comes to my Australian mind! Signaturedorayme > I'm Canadian, after all: polite and apathetic. Never driven the 401 in Toronto, eh? ;) >> You deserve a lot more rudeness, but I find it takes a lot of effort >> for me, and I just can't be bothered. > > Oh, you should see the fun banter she and "Nick Naym" had a while back! She? SignatureiMac (24", 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, 320 GB HDD) OS X (10.5.8) > > Oh, you should see the fun banter she and "Nick Naym" had a while back! > > She? Yes. And I told you that back in the aforementioned thread, too. SignatureMy latest dance performance <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_9pudbFisE> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> >>> Oh, you should see the fun banter she and "Nick Naym" had a while back! >> >> She? > > Yes. And I told you that back in the aforementioned thread, too. Do you recall the particular thread? SignatureiMac (24", 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, 320 GB HDD) OS X (10.5.8) > >>> Oh, you should see the fun banter she and "Nick Naym" had a while back! > >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Do you recall the particular thread? How would I be talking about it if I didn't recall it? SignatureMy latest dance performance <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_9pudbFisE> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> >>>>> Oh, you should see the fun banter she and "Nick Naym" had a while back! >>>> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > How would I be talking about it if I didn't recall it? Thanks for the answer, Mike. http://tinyurl.com/yewhh6e Now, how about an actionable response? SignatureiMac (24", 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, 320 GB HDD) OS X (10.5.8) In article <C79F81E9.533B2%nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid>, > >>>>> Oh, you should see the fun banter she and "Nick Naym" had a while back! > >>>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Now, how about an actionable response? How about not? Talking about jokes (that is, if you have time, Nick, I realise a rabbit or a sheep is beckoning you urgently - as ever), here is my latest creation: "Last night I threw such a loud party that I called the police myself to complain about the noise." Whaddyouthink? Is it safe to give up my day job and write for/ appear as a stand-up comic? Signaturedorayme > In article > <C79F81E9.533B2%nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid>, [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > "Last night I threw such a loud party that I called the police > myself to complain about the noise." Henny Youngman, 1956? > Whaddyouthink? Is it safe to give up my day job Sheepherder? > and write for/ > appear as a stand-up comic? More like a sit-down fool. SignatureiMac (24", 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, 320 GB HDD) OS X (10.5.8) In article <C79FA02C.533C7%nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid>, > > Talking about jokes, here is > > my latest creation: [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > More like a sit-down fool. I forgot what a snide unpleasant fellow you were. Never mind. Anyway, it's been lovely, but I have to scream now. Do me a favour, don't miss a good chance to shut up from now on. It is obvious that you are a waste of two billion years of evolution. Signaturedorayme > Now, how about an actionable response? Maybe if you'd explain what it actually is you want to know. SignatureMy latest dance performance <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_9pudbFisE> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> > > Now, how about an actionable response? > > Maybe if you'd explain what it actually is you want to know. I think he wants you to put in the time and effort to search for that thread instead of doing it himself. >>> Now, how about an actionable response? >> >> Maybe if you'd explain what it actually is you want to know. > > I think he wants you to put in the time and effort to search for that > thread instead of doing it himself. Close, but no cigar: He already _knows_ which thread it is (at least, that's what he seemed to imply). Not knowing what to search on (beyond the possible posters' names (Mike, dorayme, Nick)) resulted in scads of difficult to cull posts within Entourage (which is where all the posts I've saved are stored on my machine). Of course, there may be a simple way to search on the 'net that I, a relatively inexperienced newsgrouper, am unaware of. If so, I'd be most grateful if you'd tell me how. SignatureiMac (24", 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, 320 GB HDD) OS X (10.5.8) > >>> Now, how about an actionable response? > >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Close, but no cigar: He already _knows_ which thread it is (at least, that's > what he seemed to imply). You wanted to know the _subject_ of the thread? Why didn't you just ask that directly in the first place? If you had, I would have answered directly. That answer, though, is that I haven't the slightest idea. It's not as if the bickering between you and dorayme had anything at all to do with the subject. I just know that I joked about making you sit at separate dinner tables and you somehow took that to mean I was siding with you. > Not knowing what to search on (beyond the possible > posters' names (Mike, dorayme, Nick)) resulted in scads of difficult to cull [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > relatively inexperienced newsgrouper, am unaware of. If so, I'd be most > grateful if you'd tell me how. http://groups.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en&q=&hl=en& SignatureMy latest dance performance <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_9pudbFisE> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> >>>>> Now, how about an actionable response? >>>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > http://groups.google.com/advanced_search?hl=en&q=&hl=en& Not any more helpful than running through my own copies saved in Entourage. I finally was able to find a single reference you made; it was a one-liner that didn't make any sense to me then (other than the suggestion that you somehow knew/know that dorayme is female...or at least not male ;) ), and, without additional qualification/reference/context, still doesn't: ------------------------------------------------ Subject: Re: Google is NOT my friend :-\ Date: Monday, December 7, 2009 9:26 PM From: Mike Rosenberg <mikePOST@TOGROUPmacconsult.com> Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.apps Nick Naym <nicknaym@[remove_this].gmail.com> wrote: > He can probably go without the coffee; maybe without the tea; but without > the sheep? NOOOOOO WAY! There's only one "he" among the two of you. SignatureMy latest dance performance <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvB98fgse-s> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> ------------------------------------------------ -- iMac (24", 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, 320 GB HDD) OS X (10.5.8) In article <C7A0D478.5348D%nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid>, Could you please stop discussing my sex. It is none of your business. Besides, I'm not your type, I'm not inflatable. Your business is sheep, and assorted pliable small animals. From what I have heard, you seem quite uninterested in their sex. Do me a favour, be a real man and try a piranha. Signaturedorayme > In article > <C7A0D478.5348D%nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid>, > > Could you please stop discussing my sex. Androgyny is an interesting subject. > It is none of your > business. Besides, I'm not your type, I'm not inflatable. That's my type? What is yours...bicycle tires? > Your business is sheep, Still preoccupied with sheep, eh? > and assorted pliable small animals. I wouldn't think of raiding your stash of rubber duckies. > From > what I have heard, you seem quite uninterested in their sex. Been hearing those strange voices again, dorayme? > Do > me a favour, be a real man and try a piranha. Don't go away mad, dorayme...just go away. SignatureiMac (24", 2.8 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM, 320 GB HDD) OS X (10.5.8) In article <C7A0DEF0.53496%nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid>, > > In article > > <C7A0D478.5348D%nicknaym@_remove_this_gmail.com.invalid>, > > > > Could you please stop discussing my sex. > > Androgyny is an interesting subject. Thank you for not annoying me more than you do. Signaturedorayme > > Please say nothing more to me unless you are going to be nice. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > You deserve a lot more rudeness, but I find it takes a lot of effort > for me, and I just can't be bothered. I'm sorry Steve, but I really cannot accept this. If I deserve to be rude to, then you have an obligation to be rude to me. Be a man and do not shirk your obligations. <g> Signaturedorayme > Please say nothing more to me unless you are going to be > nice. "That's when you become a lazy moron instead of just lazy." Jeeez.. children !!! H > To me the problem does lie with Mail, not because the program is faulty > per se, but because it gives absolutely no assistance to anyone setting > it up - you have to figure it our by yourself (or with help from this > ng). Most similar programs have some sort of interactive dialog built in > to help the ignorant. The problem with that notion is that the mail hosting company decides exactly which server settings you have to use. No interactive dialog can tell you what to try - you have to find out from the powers that be. Starting with Leopard, Mail will attempt to do that for you automatically, and in many cases it gets things right. I don't think Entourage or Thunderbird do that. I know for sure Eudora doesn't, referring to the real Eudora, not the relabelled Thunderbird version, and I've seen some cases where that Eudora can't connect at all to servers that newer apps can. SignatureMy latest dance performance <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_9pudbFisE> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> > > To me the problem does lie with Mail, not because the program is faulty > > per se, but because it gives absolutely no assistance to anyone setting [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > exactly which server settings you have to use. No interactive dialog can > tell you what to try - you have to find out from the powers that be. For one particular, there is no way that Mail is going to know what user name you need for authentication. Different hosting companies use different patterns; there isn't a general answer. If you know the setup of a particular company, you can give a suggestion based on that, but you can't tell in general for an arbitrary hosting company. SignatureRichard Maine | Good judgment comes from experience; email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment. domain: summertriangle | -- Mark Twain In article <clark-DF725D.16273310022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > To me the problem does lie with Mail, not because the program is faulty > per se, but because it gives absolutely no assistance to anyone setting > it up - you have to figure it our by yourself (or with help from this > ng). IIRC, you are using a very old version of Mail. So that statement is unfair. Newer versions of Mail do offer more ways to figure out what's wrong. SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR > In article > <clark-DF725D.16273310022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > unfair. Newer versions of Mail do offer more ways to figure out what's > wrong. Indeed, but that is really not an excuse for not having done it with the Tiger version. > Indeed, but that is really not an excuse for not having done it with the > Tiger version. Let's see now. They come out with a new product, Leopard, with a lot of new features. In addition to the obvious ones like Time Machine and Spaces, there are some big changes in Mail, including stationery and the previously mentioned improvements in setting up accounts. You choose not to buy the new product but you want the new features anyway? Hey, just be glad they kept upgrading your Safari. SignatureMy latest dance performance <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_9pudbFisE> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> > > Indeed, but that is really not an excuse for not having done it with the > > Tiger version. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > You choose not to buy the new product but you want the new features > anyway? Hey, just be glad they kept upgrading your Safari. I am more than ready to upgrade, but all my research apps are not as yet. All I was asking for was a decent help file! Oh, and I have given up on Safari - I don't have all day to wait for it to load, and Firefox is so much faster to do that. In article <clark-4B28C5.14190912022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > Oh, and I have given up on Safari - I don't have all day to wait for it > to load, and Firefox is so much faster to do that. My Firefox (3.5.7) takes ages compared to my Safari 3.1.2 to launch. Perhaps you are meaning to load websites. Signaturedorayme In article <clark-4B28C5.14190912022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > > > Indeed, but that is really not an excuse for not having done it with the > > > Tiger version. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Oh, and I have given up on Safari - I don't have all day to wait for it > to load, and Firefox is so much faster to do that. Not in 10.6. : ) SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR > Indeed, but that is really not an excuse for not having done it with the > Tiger version. If 10.4 was perfect, there wouldn't've needed to be a 10.5. And it would have come out in 2020 or so. > > Indeed, but that is really not an excuse for not having done it with the > > Tiger version. > > If 10.4 was perfect, there wouldn't've needed to be a 10.5. And it > would have come out in 2020 or so. And every important piece of scientific software needed for advanced research would have been migrated, too. But it hasn't. > > Indeed, but that is really not an excuse for not having done it with the > > Tiger version. > > If 10.4 was perfect, there wouldn't've needed to be a 10.5. And it > would have come out in 2020 or so. In this consumer society, better is never a particularly strong reason to produce different... Signaturedorayme > To me the problem does lie with Mail, not because the program is faulty > per se, but because it gives absolutely no assistance to anyone setting > it up - you have to figure it our by yourself (or with help from this > ng). Most similar programs have some sort of interactive dialog built in > to help the ignorant. The Mail included with 10.5 and later not only includes a connection doctor, but also checks which ports to use when you're setting up the account automatically. It even automatically chooses your user name based on your email address. It also checks your account settings as you work through the account setup process and warns you if anything's gone wrong. So yeah, maybe part of the problem was Mail. But it was fixed two years ago. > > To me the problem does lie with Mail, not because the program is faulty > > per se, but because it gives absolutely no assistance to anyone setting [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > So yeah, maybe part of the problem was Mail. But it was fixed two years ago. Not if you are still using Tiger on an older machine, it wasn't. Connection Doctor in 10.4 is essentially useless. On 2/11/10 8:07 AM, "William Clark" <clark@nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> wrote: >> So yeah, maybe part of the problem was Mail. But it was fixed two years ago. > > Not if you are still using Tiger on an older machine, it wasn't. > Connection Doctor in 10.4 is essentially useless. I'd say that the fix was available (upgrade the OS version) but you chose to not use it. > On 2/11/10 8:07 AM, "William Clark" <clark@nospam.matsceng.ohio-state.edu> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I'd say that the fix was available (upgrade the OS version) but you chose to > not use it. I did not have a choice if I wanted my research apps all to work. > Not if you are still using Tiger on an older machine, it wasn't. Which means the fix is available but you didn't get it. > > Not if you are still using Tiger on an older machine, it wasn't. > > Which means the fix is available but you didn't get it. See above posts before you jump to the wrong conclusion again. In article <clark-DF725D.16273310022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > > > > >>>> What the hell is up with this piece of crap called Mail? I wish to > > > > >>>> God [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Thanks again for all your help. I wish that Apple had been as thoughtful > :-) It's impossible to make something idiotproof because idiots are so ingenious--corollary to Murphy's Law Don't try to teach a pig to sing. It frustrates you and annoys the pig--Lazarus Long SignatureDeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee... [I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically by ignored] In article <clark-DF725D.16273310022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > To me the problem does lie with Mail, not because the program is faulty > per se, but because it gives absolutely no assistance to anyone setting [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Thanks again for all your help. I wish that Apple had been as thoughtful > :-) Yep, YOU actually have to be smarter than the computer in front of you..... > In article > <clark-DF725D.16273310022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Yep, YOU actually have to be smarter than the computer in front of > you..... Not a great advertisement for "the computer for the rest of us". SignatureBarry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu Arlington, MA *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me *** *** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group *** > In article > <clark-DF725D.16273310022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Yep, YOU actually have to be smarter than the computer in front of > you..... Actually, I am. I'm just not a psychic, which I needed to be in this case. > Actually, I am. I'm just not a psychic, which I needed to be in this > case. No, you simply needed to ask the people in charge of your mail servers what settings are required to connect to those specific servers. What you seem to want is for the programmers at Apple to be psychic. SignatureMy latest dance performance <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_9pudbFisE> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> > > Actually, I am. I'm just not a psychic, which I needed to be in this > > case. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > What you seem to want is for the programmers at Apple to be psychic. I see more that he wants to blame someone else for his difficulty and they seemed handy. I am somehow reminded of a user of one of my application programs who came to me a decade or two (hmm, probably closer to 2) ago reporting that the program no longer worked. That was pretty much the entire report, with no more details. The program still seemed to be working fine as far as I could see, so I went to watch him try to run it. Turns out that the problem was that he could no longer log into the central computer (this was in the days when most of our apps were run on a central computer instead of desktops). Most of what he did on the computer was run my app, so I guess he thought of it as all part of the same thing and reported it as a problem relating to my app. Oh, and the reason he couldn't log onto the central computer was that he had forgotten his user name... which was the same as his last name. When I reminded him that it was the same as his last name, that wasn't quite enough prompt for him to come up with it. Not one of his better days. :-) He (and I) had gone to college in the late 60's and I'm moderately sure he had experimented with some drugs (which wasn't my style). Most of the time he was reasonably bright, but every so often he would have brief periods that I'm suspicious were much delayed symptoms of the prior drug use; some of them can so that. SignatureRichard Maine | Good judgment comes from experience; email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment. domain: summertriangle | -- Mark Twain > > > Actually, I am. I'm just not a psychic, which I needed to be in this > > > case. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > brief periods that I'm suspicious were much delayed symptoms of the > prior drug use; some of them can so that. Well, thanks for the free amateur psychoanalysis. Actually, all I wanted was for the built in help files to suggest places to start with this. That would have been enough. In article <clark-68EEBC.14083312022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > Well, thanks for the free amateur psychoanalysis. Actually, all I wanted > was for the built in help files to suggest places to start with this. > That would have been enough. Generally, there are a few people here (typical of many usenet groups), who will just stick to technical advice and in important addition, *simply understand* a few background things about human beings. But too many are autistically inclined with no people skills. It is frustrating and pathetic. If anyone finds these remarks of mine helpful, please send a small donation. Signaturedorayme > In article > <clark-68EEBC.14083312022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > If anyone finds these remarks of mine helpful, please send a > small donation. I guess I now know why they are computer geeks, and not fully functional human beings ;-) > > Actually, I am. I'm just not a psychic, which I needed to be in this > > case. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > What you seem to want is for the programmers at Apple to be psychic. Agreed, but not really feasible when I am 400 miles away from them, and neither provider answers phones. > Agreed, but not really feasible when I am 400 miles away from them, and > neither provider answers phones. Tom Stiller found that page at Apple's support site. I just Googled and quickly found AT&T's mail server settings. SignatureMy latest dance performance <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_9pudbFisE> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> > > Agreed, but not really feasible when I am 400 miles away from them, and > > neither provider answers phones. > > Tom Stiller found that page at Apple's support site. I just Googled and > quickly found AT&T's mail server settings. Yes, but with all due respect, a) that form would only help if I could get hold of an AT&T tech person on the phone form my hotel. Believe me, I tried. And tried. And tried. The only AT&T settings I could find directed me to setting up a Yahoo account, which I did, but to no avail. Had I been at home when this happened, it would have been sorted in no time. > I'm a user of Mail and have no recollections of ever experiencing a > problem with it. My incoming mail is sorted according to the rules I > have established, and I have never been informed of any problems with > my outgoing mail. Perhaps this is because I receive and send mail from > MobileMe. I've been using it since I bought my laptop and agree. I had Eudora on the old computer but didn't upgrade that. I can't send from it away from home, but it seems that may be my fault for not "up"grading. (more "up"grades throw out features I like and use than add anything useful, so I put them off as long as possible) SignatureErilar, biblioholic medievalist http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo > > > > What the hell is up with this piece of crap called Mail? I wish to God I > > > > had stayed with Eudora, but how do I get this damn Mail thing to work as > > > > it should? > > If I were you with this problem I would switch now and for all to Gmail. > End of problems. And the end of your control over your messages... Isaac > > If I were you with this problem I would switch now and for all to Gmail. > > End of problems. > > And the end of your control over your messages... Unless you use your account via Mail. Oh, wait a minute... ;-) SignatureMy latest dance performance <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_9pudbFisE> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> > In article <1jdpcuv.ugf0ato91f5uN%Howard.not@home.com>, > Howard.not@home.com (Howard) wrote: > > > On Sat, 6 Feb 2010 18:47:25 -0500, William Clark wrote > > > > > > > What the hell is up with this piece of crap called Mail? I wish to God I > > > > > had stayed with Eudora, but how do I get this damn Mail thing to work as > > > > > it should? > > > > If I were you with this problem I would switch now and for all to Gmail. > > End of problems. > > And the end of your control over your messages... > What control do you lose ? H In article <clark-6B77BD.18472506022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > Can someone help with this problem, that is driving me nuts. I recently > switched from Eudora to Mail, and it has been working fine from my [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Any help appreciated. Have you tried using the 'telnet' program in a terminal window to test the SMTP connection yourself without Mail's interference? Here's a run-down of how to do it: <http://www.simplescripts.de/smtp-check-port-25-telnet-command.htm> SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR > In article > <clark-6B77BD.18472506022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > <http://www.simplescripts.de/smtp-check-port-25-telnet-command.htm> Using telnet tells me that I am connected to the server(s). It seems to me the problem is in Mail itself. In article <clark-941886.14410707022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, > > In article > > <clark-6B77BD.18472506022010@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>, [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > Using telnet tells me that I am connected to the server(s). It seems to > me the problem is in Mail itself. Being connected is not enough. An email server always accepts connections when running correctly, but may not allow you to send email depending on email server settings. You need to actually *send* a message, as described on the web page I posted. SignatureSend responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts. JR |
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