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Mac Forum / Applications / Mac Applications / July 2009"Mail" ???
Thanks everyone. I do appreciate your advice I get the msg. Stan. > Thanks everyone. I do appreciate your advice I get the msg. About what? You should reply in the thread containing the problem and advice. Starting a new thread with "thank you" is confusing, there's no context. Do you think you're the only one who has recently asked for help with Mail?  SignatureBarry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu Arlington, MA *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me *** *** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group *** > > Thanks everyone. I do appreciate your advice I get the msg. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Do you think you're the only one who has recently asked for help with > Mail?, I am so sorry you are confused. Thank you for your advice, which indicates you are an expert in protocol. In future before I exhibit "good manners" I will endeavor to clear my few words of thanks with you. Incidentally, I am sight impaired and print handicapped. > > > Thanks everyone. I do appreciate your advice I get the msg. > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > few words of thanks with you. > Incidentally, I am sight impaired and print handicapped. It is not just him that was confused. Posting without context is inherently confusing to everyone. Barry's "about what?" certainly echoed my thought when I read your post, and I'd lay high odds that it was the thought of most other readers of it. Yes, as Barry noted, there had been multiple recent questions relating to Mail, and it took a bit of searching to figure out what this one might have been. He was simply trying to explain one of the most basic and important things about how to successfully communicate here. It has little to do with protocol or manners and everything to do with successful communication of whatever it is you are trying to communicate. When one posts something here, it is most commonly with the intent to communicate. Yes, the handicaps are incidental. I have a 22-year-old son who has a mental age of about 2. He can neither talk nor walk. Communication with him is quite a challenge. It is a lot harder than the fairly simple principles that help communication here. One of the important things to understand about this medium is that the people who read your post might not have read any other particular post here, or even if they read some other one, might have read it some time ago, with other things read in the interim. If you expect people to have any idea of what you are talking about, then you have to provide context. Context can be provided either by quoting material or by replying to a previous post. This is not rocket science and does not require an expert in protocol. What it does require is thinking at least a tiny bit about how a reader of your post is going to be able to understand it, which is the kind of thought critical to any form of communication. Imagine how useless the replies to you would have been without such context. You probably never would have never even seen the replies. Anyone who did see them would have no idea what they were about. Barry was making an attempt to help you understand how to communicate successfully here. So am I, for that matter. SignatureRichard Maine | Good judgment comes from experience; email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment. domain: summertriangle | -- Mark Twain > > > > Thanks everyone. I do appreciate your advice I get the msg. > > > [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > it is you are trying to communicate. When one posts something here, it > is most commonly with the intent to communicate. Wake up one morning at the age of 67 and realize some thing strange is happening in your right eye. Fifteen days later you are totally blind in your right eye and only 25% or less of your left is of any use. You have gone from 20/20 vision and being a speed reader to nothing. Communication does has a meaning for me, so please, don't lecture me on the meaning of communication. > Communication does has a meaning for me, so please, don't lecture me on > the meaning of communication. Stan, I can only offer you the Standard Advice for dealing with usenet posts: Ignore Filter Help others do the same > > Communication does have a meaning for me, so please, don't lecture me on > > the meaning of communication. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Help others do the same Dave, I agree. You find them in most news groups/mailing lists. They tend to major in the minors and are a pain. I am sight impaired. This document may contain some typographical errors. I apology's if this is the case. ************************************************************************ > > > > Thanks everyone. I do appreciate your advice I get the msg. > > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > few words of thanks with you. > > Incidentally, I am sight impaired and print handicapped. > One of the important things to understand about this medium is that the > people who read your post might not have read any other particular post [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > context. Context can be provided either by quoting material or by > replying to a previous post. What does PayPal or Nike shoes have to do with this news group?? > This is not rocket science and does not require an expert in protocol. > What it does require is thinking at least a tiny bit about how a reader > of your post is going to be able to understand it, which is the kind of > thought critical to any form of communication. WOW! On my 22 inch computer screen at the moment, I have the 16 postings relating to my original question. Dividing these postings is a thin black line. Although these 16 postings are separated by this line, the subject heading is the same, eg "Mail ??? No rocket science here, just plain good old common sense. If you would like me to send you a screen shot, eMail address please. > Imagine how useless the replies to you would have been without such > context. You probably never would have never even seen the replies. > Anyone who did see them would have no idea what they were about. A few simple words of thanks. If they were so "useless" as you put it! Why waste your valuable time?. I have not posted to this NG for some time. The other day I D/L 14,000 msg's to my Mac and I did read the relative info in regards to my original question. > Barry was making an attempt to help you understand how to communicate > successfully here. So am I, for that matter. I do not agree with your reasoning. At my age (86), my few remaining years can be put to better use, than the above rubbish. To those members of the group, who answered my original question, MY VERY GRATEFULL THANKS. > WOW! On my 22 inch computer screen at the moment, I have the 16 > postings relating to my original question. Dividing these postings is a > thin black line. Although these 16 postings are separated by this line, > the subject heading is the same, eg "Mail ??? > No rocket science here, just plain good old common sense. That is then a consequence of the particular newsreader you are using, possibly along with the particular configuration of it that you are using. That is not how many readers will see it. Coming to appreciate how other people will see your postings is a critical part of communication skills. In particular, it is important to understand that they don't all see the exact same image that you do. Followups will be associated with the original post in pretty much any newsreader; that is part of the specification of the medium. Coincidence of Subject title is not. Although you insist that you know plenty enough about communication to not need any help in it, data suggests otherwise in the case at hand. SignatureRichard Maine | Good judgment comes from experience; email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment. domain: summertriangle | -- Mark Twain > > WOW! On my 22 inch computer screen at the moment, I have the 16 > > postings relating to my original question. Dividing these postings is a > > thin black line. Although these 16 postings are separated by this line, > > the subject heading is the same, eg "Mail ??? > > No rocket science here, just plain good old common sense. > Although you insist that you know plenty enough about communication to > not need any help in it, data suggests otherwise in the case at hand. Wrong again. You are entitled to your own opinion, as long as you don't share them with me. "Is there a system using this programme, that would indicate to me, that the recipient has opened the eMail". Did you ever answer my original query? I think not. End. > > Although you insist that you know plenty enough about communication to > > not need any help in it, data suggests otherwise in the case at hand. > > Wrong again. You are entitled to your own opinion, as long as you don't > share them with me. I rather think I am entitled to my opinion regardless of whether or not I choose to share it with you. I certainly do not accept you or anyone else here as an arbiter of any conditions on my entitlement to my own opinions. I might go so far as to say that you are surely entitled to your opinion that you can put conditions on my opinions. But I feel no obligation to abide by whatever conditions you might think applied to my rights of opinion. > "Is there a system using this programme, that would indicate to me, that > the recipient has opened the eMail". > Did you ever answer my original query? I think not. I think so. I elaborated on the answers by replying to one of the postings in that pointed out a program that alleged to provide such a way. I pointed out that it didn't really work either. I did not feel it would be particularly useful to redundantly echo the material from other anwers, but restricted myself to the nonredundant part of the answer. SignatureRichard Maine | Good judgment comes from experience; email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment. domain: summertriangle | -- Mark Twain > > > Thanks everyone. I do appreciate your advice I get the msg. > > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > few words of thanks with you. > Incidentally, I am sight impaired and print handicapped. I admire your restraint. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email > > Thanks everyone. I do appreciate your advice I get the msg. > > About what? About the question he asked. His reply is to his own question. > You should reply in the thread containing the problem and advice. > Starting a new thread with "thank you" is confusing, there's no context. > Do you think you're the only one who has recently asked for help with > Mail? I don't understand your problem. His thank-you appears in the same thread as the original post and the advice. Maybe you need a better newsreader. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email > > You should reply in the thread containing the problem and advice. > > Starting a new thread with "thank you" is confusing, there's no context. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I don't understand your problem. His thank-you appears in the same > thread as the original post and the advice. His thank you was NOT in the same thread as the original post. Maybe you just happen to have your newsreader set to display alphabetically by subject. I have MacSOUP set to sort by date but grouped by thread, and this is an entirely separate thread that happens to have the same subject. SignatureMy latest dance routine <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4twDW3OUYg> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> > > > You should reply in the thread containing the problem and advice. > > > Starting a new thread with "thank you" is confusing, there's no context. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > this is an entirely separate thread that happens to have the same > subject. As the references header shows. SignatureTom Stiller PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF > > > You should reply in the thread containing the problem and advice. > > > Starting a new thread with "thank you" is confusing, there's no context. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > this is an entirely separate thread that happens to have the same > subject. I also use "MacSoup". Having done so for as long as I can remember, I find it an excellent news reader for my purpose. Mind you, with a DOB of 1923 and sporadic use of the news group's site, mistakes can and do occur. I guess we not all perfect. > > > > You should reply in the thread containing the problem and advice. > > > > Starting a new thread with "thank you" is confusing, there's no context. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > this is an entirely separate thread that happens to have the same > > subject. You might want to consider revising the sort order. > I also use "MacSoup". Having done so for as long as I can remember, I > find it an excellent news reader for my purpose. Mind you, with a DOB of > 1923 and sporadic use of the news group's site, mistakes can and do > occur. > I guess we not all perfect. I'm not using MacSoup, I'm using ProNews/2, an antique newsreader for OS/2 (note headers) that is indeed sorting first by subject. A grab of the thread, as it appears in my newsreader, is at http://web.me.com/john.varela/temp/Mail_thread.tiff SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email > > > > > You should reply in the thread containing the problem and advice. > > > > > Starting a new thread with "thank you" is confusing, there's no [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > You might want to consider revising the sort order. I have my newsreader set to show only threads with unread articles. At the time he started this new thread, the old thread had no recent articles, so it was completely gone. SignatureBarry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu Arlington, MA *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me *** *** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group *** > > > > > > You should reply in the thread containing the problem and advice. > > > > > > Starting a new thread with "thank you" is confusing, there's no [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > the time he started this new thread, the old thread had no recent > articles, so it was completely gone. My newsreader shows all threads but is set to expand only those with unread. It united the threads and expanded the whole thing. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email > My newsreader shows all threads but is set to expand only those with > unread. It united the threads and expanded the whole thing. Nice, but very few Mac users are running an OS2 newsreader, John. SignatureKiva - Loans that change lives. http://www.kiva.org/lender/david87375440 > > My newsreader shows all threads but is set to expand only those with > > unread. It united the threads and expanded the whole thing. > > Nice, but very few Mac users are running an OS2 newsreader, John. Oh, isn't that a bit extreme? 8-) I have mine set to only show unread stuff, period. SignatureMary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar) You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument is that reason doesn't count. --Isaac Asimov Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.chibardun.net/~erilarlo > > > My newsreader shows all threads but is set to expand only those with > > > unread. It united the threads and expanded the whole thing. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Oh, isn't that a bit extreme? 8-) I have mine set to only show > unread stuff, period. I subscribe to a couple of groups that often produce threads with hundreds of entries. (For example, go to alt.folklore computers and look at the thread "OT Kodachrome film discontinued".) Long threads like that drift into many subthreads. I start dropping some subthreads while continuing to follow others. Therefore I want to see the entire thread, so I can see which subthreads I have dropped and can skip over. I couldn't find a Mac news reader that would do what I want. Hogwasher let me see the entire thread, but it would not expand only the unread threads, so I found myself having to page through thousands of posts looking for the subthreads I was following. Which is why I finally got Parallels Desktop, installed OS/2, and reverted to my old favorite news reader. YMMV SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email [explaining the want to quickly pick up a subthread of discussion in a thread that my have hundreds of postings] > Hogwasher let me see the entire thread, but it would not expand only the > unread threads, so I found myself having to page through thousands of > posts looking for the subthreads I was following. Hogwasher's thread display does let you see which messages you have read and does identify which messages you have posted. The current message being read is highlighted in the thread display. If you wish to subsequently quickly rejoin that thread at that point you can label that message so that in the thread display it has a distinctive color, making it easy to spot amongst the hundreds of messages in the thread. On that subsequent return to the thread you can apply new labels and return previously labelled messages back to the neutral black label. Doing this does indeed make it easy to participate in sub-threads of interest within a monstrous thread. SignatureJames Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas ..... taliesinsoft@me.com > [explaining the want to quickly pick up a subthread of discussion in a thread > that my have hundreds of postings] [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > neutral black label. Doing this does indeed make it easy to participate in > sub-threads of interest within a monstrous thread. I retain messages on my computer for 31 days or until removed from the server. Right now, in high summer, I have 4,768 messages stored for alt.usage.english. At times that number will approach 10,000. AUE may get as many as 400 new messages every day. I find it easy to press the space bar to skip to the next unread message. If it's one I want to read, I press Return. If not, I press Page Down until I'm past the unwanted subthread, then press Space to go to the next unread. Fast and easy, all done from the keyboard. To find the labelled messages in Hogwasher I would, and did, have to page down through upwards of 10,000 messages in AUE. And another 2,000 or more in alt.folklore.computers. I spent more time paging down than reading. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEWlamps for OLDlamps for email > > > His thank you was NOT in the same thread as the original post. Maybe > > > you just happen to have your newsreader set to display alphabetically by [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > You might want to consider revising the sort order. I absolutely don't want to consider that, I'm perfectly happy with my sort order. I didn't post anything about commenting on Doug's post itself. I was simply pointing out that he did, in fact, start a new thread. SignatureMy latest dance routine <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4twDW3OUYg> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> |
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