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Mac Forum / Applications / Mac Applications / June 2008Is iCal the best in its field?
I was realizing the potential of iCal but thought I might post a question here wondering if any of you have found a better alternative to iCal? Integration with other programs (like iCal does) is important. I almost never read anything here about iCal so maybe that's a sign it both intuitive and reliable. > I was realizing the potential of iCal but thought I might post a > question here wondering if any of you have found a better alternative to > iCal? Integration with other programs (like iCal does) is important. I > almost never read anything here about iCal so maybe that's a sign it > both intuitive and reliable. I consider the Entourage calendar superior in many ways.  SignatureNote: Please send all responses to the relevant news group. If you must contact me through e-mail, let me know when you send email to this address so that your email doesn't get eaten by my SPAM filter. JR > > I was realizing the potential of iCal but thought I might post a > > question here wondering if any of you have found a better alternative to [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I consider the Entourage calendar superior in many ways. Entourage has two major drawbacks: 1. No CalDAV support. 2. Everything is stored in a single file which means that up to 2 GB is to be back-up'ed every time a backup is performed. Were Microsoft to change that I would return to Entourage ... SignaturePer Erik Rønne http://www.RQNNE.dk > > > I was realizing the potential of iCal but thought I might post a > > > question here wondering if any of you have found a better alternative to [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Entourage has two major drawbacks: > 1. No CalDAV support. Any other opions on the importance of CalDAV? Do you think its an issue for a beginning user? Or in 2008? Who knows if this will become more of a valued feature in the future. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CalDAV > 2. Everything is stored in a single file which means that up to 2 GB is > to be back-up'ed every time a backup is performed. That's a valid point. 2gb is a lot of wasted space for text stuff. I wonder if there is any way of copying the stored data somehow to a different file for backup? > > > > I was realizing the potential of iCal but thought I might post a > > > > question here wondering if any of you have found a better alternative to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > of a valued feature in the future. > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CalDAV You will find societies and clubs that publish calendars to its members with meetings - Entourage simply doesn't support that unless it is connected to an Exchange Server [and then, of course, it is not CalDAV]. BTW, the Home and Student Edition of Entourage doesn't even support this Exchange Server. > > 2. Everything is stored in a single file which means that up to 2 GB is > > to be back-up'ed every time a backup is performed. > > That's a valid point. 2gb is a lot of wasted space for text stuff. I > wonder if there is any way of copying the stored data somehow to a > different file for backup? The point is that Mail stores every single mail as a single file. Probably the same with Address Book and iCal. This is good for incremental backup be it with Retrospect or the new Time Machine [I use both; Time Machine on external fw-drives to each machine, Retrospect to a network harddisk - Retrospect then takes all computers though it only backups /Users and the similar on Windows]. With Time Machine, a new copy of the Entourage file will be back-up'ed every hour. What a waste of harddisk space. SignaturePer Erik Rønne http://www.RQNNE.dk > > > > I was realizing the potential of iCal but thought I might post a > > > > question here wondering if any of you have found a better alternative to [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > wonder if there is any way of copying the stored data somehow to a > different file for backup? Since Entourage is scriptable, you could export messages to MBOX files on a routine basis. Then you could exclude the big database from daily backups and back up the MBOX files instead. SignaturePlease send all responses to the relevant news group. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. I do not read posts from Google Groups. Use a real news reader if you want me to see your posts. JR > > > I was realizing the potential of iCal but thought I might post a > > > question here wondering if any of you have found a better alternative to [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > 2. Everything is stored in a single file which means that up to 2 GB is > to be back-up'ed every time a backup is performed. This is certainly a drawback, but it doesn't mean backups *can't* be done. I back up every single day to tape and I manage just fine. SignaturePlease send all responses to the relevant news group. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. I do not read posts from Google Groups. Use a real news reader if you want me to see your posts. JR > > > > I was realizing the potential of iCal but thought I might post a > > > > question here wondering if any of you have found a better alternative to [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > This is certainly a drawback, but it doesn't mean backups *can't* be > done. I back up every single day to tape and I manage just fine. Of course it can be done. I used Entourage until around a year ago, then switched to Mail due to Entourage's lack of CalDAV support ... SignaturePer Erik Rønne http://www.RQNNE.dk > Entourage has two major drawbacks: > > 1. No CalDAV support. <snip> This seems to imply you've found a host for CalDAV. Where? :) > > Entourage has two major drawbacks: > > > > 1. No CalDAV support. > <snip> > > This seems to imply you've found a host for CalDAV. Where? :) Leopard Server. I think dot-mac as well and every published calendar in iCal too. Entourage links to dot-mac by creating the Entourage calendar in iCal. Furthermore, it cannot subscribe to calendars that iCal subscribes to. SignaturePer Erik Rønne http://www.RQNNE.dk > 2. Everything is stored in a single file which means that up to 2 GB is > to be back-up'ed every time a backup is performed. I think this is a major drawback, but for a different reason. If this one file gets corrupted, everything may be lost in one swell foop. Yes, certainly, you'd restore it from backup, but the point is that, in Mail, a file corruption affecting all your mail at once is far less likely to occur. Now, having said that, I have to add that MS did make major strides in going from Office X to Office 2004 in how robust the Entourage database is in the first place and in how straightforward it is to deal with database integrity issues. I don't know how this has changed with Office 2008. Signature<http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/election.shtml> Election 2008 goods. <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/greet.cgi> Holiday cards with attitude > > 2. Everything is stored in a single file which means that up to 2 GB is > > to be back-up'ed every time a backup is performed. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > database integrity issues. I don't know how this has changed with Office > 2008. From what I gather, the database in Office 2008 is a bit more stable and less prone to corruption. Then again, I used Office 2004 on several Macs, both at home and connected to Exchange on a corporate network for over 3 years without a single corruption issue. And it's still just a big monolithic database file. Personally, I'd love to see them move to MBOX or similar for email messages and keep only proprietary information in the database (like message status, links, and so on) to drastically reduce its footprint. SignaturePlease send all responses to the relevant news group. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. I do not read posts from Google Groups. Use a real news reader if you want me to see your posts. JR > From what I gather, the database in Office 2008 is a bit more stable and > less prone to corruption. Then again, I used Office 2004 on several > Macs, both at home and connected to Exchange on a corporate network for > over 3 years without a single corruption issue. And it's still just a > big monolithic database file. I get to deal with all sorts of clients running all sorts of mail clients, and I can tell you that the Entourage users have significantly more problems than the Mail users. Signature<http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/election.shtml> Election 2008 goods. <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/greet.cgi> Holiday cards with attitude > > From what I gather, the database in Office 2008 is a bit more stable and > > less prone to corruption. Then again, I used Office 2004 on several [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > clients, and I can tell you that the Entourage users have significantly > more problems than the Mail users. I guess I can count myself lucky, then. :) SignaturePlease send all responses to the relevant news group. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. I do not read posts from Google Groups. Use a real news reader if you want me to see your posts. JR > > I get to deal with all sorts of clients running all sorts of mail > > clients, and I can tell you that the Entourage users have significantly > > more problems than the Mail users. > > I guess I can count myself lucky, then. :) What I was really getting at is that the more computers you deal with, the more you get to see trends firsthand. It's not that any one person using Entourage has ever been all that likely to run into problems (don't get me started on Outlook Express, though!), it's just that the odds are that much greater than they are with Mail. Signature<http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/election.shtml> Election 2008 goods. <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/greet.cgi> Holiday cards with attitude NewGuy wrote: > I was realizing the potential of iCal but thought I might post a > question here wondering if any of you have found a better alternative to > iCal? Integration with other programs (like iCal does) is important. I > almost never read anything here about iCal so maybe that's a sign it > both intuitive and reliable. Who can say what is best for _you_ ? I like MS Entourage because I was using it for some years before iCal was released; I'm accustomed to it, I like the interface, and I like its integration with Entourage e-mail (which I use exclusive of all other e-mail clients) and the Entourage news reader, which I use occasionally. If iCal had been available for some years before MS Office integrated Entourage, chances are I would be using that because I would be accustomed to it and I would like the interface... Suppose, however, that I had to start afresh, already knowing what I know about both Entourage and iCal. Which would I choose? Entourage, hands down, because of its e-mail client. I do _not_ like Apple's Mail.app. Davoud Signatureusenet *at* davidillig dawt com > NewGuy wrote: > > I was realizing the potential of iCal but thought I might post a [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Davoud How do you find Entourage superior to Mail (in email capabilities of course)? Mail is one of the few Apple programs I really like. Just my luck. > I was realizing the potential of iCal but thought I might post a > question here wondering if any of you have found a better alternative to > iCal? I don't understand why you're asking us. You keep on telling us in other threads how much more you know about, well, gosh, everything, than we do, so why in the world should it matter to you what anyone else has to say about this? Signature<http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/election.shtml> Election 2008 goods. <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/greet.cgi> Holiday cards with attitude > > I was realizing the potential of iCal but thought I might post a > > question here wondering if any of you have found a better alternative to [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > do, so why in the world should it matter to you what anyone else has to > say about this? Well you're obviously misinterpreting my postings. I express my opinion. Maybe you're putting a little too much weight in it. Just my 2 cents. And I only blab on about stuff I'm familiar with. I've never used anything like iCal but was watching a video on it and could see it potential. Quite extraordinary in its integration with other programs. In fact this may be Apple's greatest accomplishments. The way some programs mesh with others. Then you combine multiple abilities of multiple programs. The tagging idea used in iPhoto and iTunes and Address Book is also brilliant. I don't know if its used here but its such a great way of finding stuff you've temporarily misplaced. > > I don't understand why you're asking us. You keep on telling us in other > > threads how much more you know about, well, gosh, everything, than we [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Well you're obviously misinterpreting my postings. I express my > opinion. Maybe you're putting a little too much weight in it. Saying things work differently than they actually do is not expressing an opinion. "I like Entourage's calendar better than iCal" (or vice versa) is expressing an opinion. Saying things work counter to the laws of physics or economic principles is _not_ expressing an opinion. Signature<http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/election.shtml> Election 2008 goods. <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/greet.cgi> Holiday cards with attitude > I only blab on about stuff I'm familiar with. Liar. You've shown this not to be the case time and again. SignaturePlease send all responses to the relevant news group. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. I do not read posts from Google Groups. Use a real news reader if you want me to see your posts. JR > And I only blab on about stuff I'm familiar with. Like running a computer company valued at over $160 billion dollars... ? Liar. SignatureWoodworking links and more at http://www.woodenwabbits.com > I was realizing the potential of iCal WTF does "realizing the potential" even MEAN? SignatureWoodworking links and more at http://www.woodenwabbits.com > > I was realizing the potential of iCal > > WTF does "realizing the potential" even MEAN? It's something only he's qualified to understand. Signature<http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/election.shtml> Election 2008 goods. <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/greet.cgi> Holiday cards with attitude > > I was realizing the potential of iCal > > WTF does "realizing the potential" even MEAN? It means when you first look at something you don't understand all its potential but you can see the possibilities. For instance, if iCal can integrate well with Address Book, its power greatly increases for the user. When we first look at something we never understand all its capabilities at first. But we may realize its potential if we understand a little of them. Hope that makes sense. I'm a little tired. >>> I was realizing the potential of iCal >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > understand a little of them. Hope that makes sense. I'm a little > tired. I didn't realize you'd engendered so much enmity here. Before y'all get to the read hair-tearing and eye-gouging: I've always like Now Contact/Up-to-date. I moved to iCal ONLY because it interfaces so smoothly with Mail, Address Book et al. I figured I'd take everything OSX and iLife/iWork had to offer, give me all a really dedicated shot and if I was still dissatisfied I could move on to other applications. I haven't. SignatureThank you and have a nice day. > >>> I was realizing the potential of iCal > >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > I didn't realize you'd engendered so much enmity here. Luckily people get over their anger pretty quickly here. Hey, its only my opinion. We'll see how I fare in the coming weeks and see if Apple bricks the Psystar computers. OS X released to the general public will probably take years. > Before y'all get > to the read hair-tearing and eye-gouging: I've always like Now [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > and if I was still dissatisfied I could move on to other applications. > I haven't. And that's exactly what I was interested in when I posted this question. Sometimes the ability to interface can be more important than the actual abilities of the program itself. Looks like iCal is a winner. But I'll try Entourage because JR is no dummy and he recommends that. BTW JR, do you use Entourage by itself or have you found it interfaces well with Address Book, Mail and other Apple apps? > >>> I was realizing the potential of iCal > >> [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Contact/Up-to-date. I moved to iCal ONLY because it interfaces so > smoothly with Mail, Address Book et al. Understandable. That's part of why I like Entourage - the integration between the address book, email, and the calendar is tight. The other part of why I like Entourage as a calendar is its reminders are simply more reliable IME. I've had my wife tell me several times during the past year that iCal has failed to remind her of some event she set on our MacBook Pro, and it's happened to me once as well. On the other hand, Entourage reminders have *never* failed to remind me of an event. In terms of email, Entourage has *so* many more power-user features than Mail it's not funny. For instance, Entourage had smart folder functionality long before Mail had it. And its AppleScript support is top notch. For those of us who connect to Exchange servers, Entourage is way ahead of Mail in many ways. And it's way ahead of Mail in terms of usability in many areas as well. And I haven't even touched on Mail's silent failures in cases where Entourage gives a more imformative indication of a problem. It's just a better piece of software, overall, in both my opinion and my experience. SignaturePlease send all responses to the relevant news group. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. I do not read posts from Google Groups. Use a real news reader if you want me to see your posts. JR > > > I was realizing the potential of iCal > > > > WTF does "realizing the potential" even MEAN? > > It means when you first look at something you don't understand all its > potential but you can see the possibilities. Look up the definition of "realize" lately, Humpty Dumpty? > For instance, if iCal can > integrate well with Address Book, its power greatly increases for the > user. When we first look at something we never understand all its > capabilities at first. But we may realize its potential if we > understand a little of them. Hope that makes sense. I'm a little > tired. You're certainly a little *something*... SignatureWoodworking links and more at http://www.woodenwabbits.com > > > > I was realizing the potential of iCal > > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Look up the definition of "realize" lately, Humpty Dumpty? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/realize http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/realise Sure. Though I didn't realize there was another spelling option (realise.) Strangely MTNW (or Apple I guess) says its misspelled. "Realize" seems correct. Anyway, what do you think a better choice of word be? > > For instance, if iCal can > > integrate well with Address Book, its power greatly increases for the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > You're certainly a little *something*... That I am. :) Wouldn't want to bore you all to death. >>>>> I was realizing the potential of iCal >>>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > "Realize" seems correct. > Anyway, what do you think a better choice of word be? I thought your usage of "realizing" was fine, though ambiguous, because I didn't know if meaning 1 or meaning 2 was intended: <quote> realize verb 1 he suddenly realized what she meant register, perceive, discern, be/become aware of (the fact that), be/become conscious of (the fact that), notice; understand, grasp, comprehend, see, recognize, work out, fathom, apprehend; informal latch on to, savvy, figure out, get (the message); Brit. suss; formal be/become cognizant of. 2 they realized their dream fulfill, achieve, accomplish, make a reality, make happen, bring to fruition, bring about/off, carry out/through; formal effectuate. </quote> So, were you becoming aware of the potential, or were you making its potential a reality? One wonders if Balderstone knows how to use the dictionary that's right there on his Mac. SignatureJohn Varela Trade NEW lamps for OLD for email. |
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