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Mac Forum / Applications / Mac Applications / May 2008



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Power Button Question

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Dudley Henriques - 13 May 2008 14:44 GMT
On the Macbook Pro using Leopard;

I'll be letting my wife use the computer for some work and I'm a bit
nervous about the power button. If for some reason she forgets to shut
down normally and pushes the power button with the system up and
running, what exactly happens at that point? I've never done it on a
Mac. Does it execute a hard shutdown or throw you an option window?
Thanks
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Dudley Henriques

Bill - 13 May 2008 15:02 GMT
> On the Macbook Pro using Leopard;
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Mac. Does it execute a hard shutdown or throw you an option window?
> Thanks

Normally gives you a dialog box where you can select cancel, sleep,
shutdown. If you select shutdown, it will do a normal shutdown.

If you push and hold the power button, it will after a few seconds do a
forced immediate shutdown.

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Bill Collins
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Dudley Henriques - 13 May 2008 15:22 GMT
>> On the Macbook Pro using Leopard;
>>
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> If you push and hold the power button, it will after a few seconds do a
> forced immediate shutdown.

Thank you for your time.

On that forced shutdown; is that a "hard shutdown" as might be the case
with a PC (in other words not good for anything open) or does it simply
force a normal shutdown duplicating the apple/shutdown normal procedure?
What I'm trying to understand is whether there is danger in someone
accidentally hitting the power button to shut down (like my wife for
example:-)

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Dudley Henriques

Fred Moore - 13 May 2008 17:39 GMT
> > If you push and hold the power button, it will after a few seconds do a
> > forced immediate shutdown.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> accidentally hitting the power button to shut down (like my wife for
> example:-)

The forced shutdown is not as radical as pulling the power cord out of
the wall, but it's close. I _think_ a few system cleanup tasks take
place, like flushing the write cache and parking the read/write heads,
but not very much else. You certainly don't get the opportunity to save
your work in open apps.

I don't think you'll have a problem unless your wife decides to rest her
elbow directly on the power button while she's pondering her work. Even
then, you have to hold the button for 5-10 seconds before the machine
shuts down. I'm sure your wife is a competent person, so if you just
tell her to stay away from the power button, you should be fine.

--Fred
Howard Brazee - 13 May 2008 17:50 GMT
>I don't think you'll have a problem unless your wife decides to rest her
>elbow directly on the power button while she's pondering her work. Even
>then, you have to hold the button for 5-10 seconds before the machine
>shuts down. I'm sure your wife is a competent person, so if you just
>tell her to stay away from the power button, you should be fine.

I do like having the iMac's button in the rear.  (not the USB ports
though).
Richard Maine - 13 May 2008 18:02 GMT
> I do like having the iMac's button in the rear.

I don't. Because I have had to coach two separate people over the phone
through finding the darn thing. They didn't normally shut their Macs
down. When came time to power them up after... I don't recall... perhaps
a power outage or maybe something else... they couldn't recall where the
power switch was. And it doesn't protrude in a way that makes it real
obvious if you don't know about what you are feeling for.

In both case, the Mac was positioned in such a way that they couldn't
easily look. (One was a mini, set in a shelf with the various cables
pretty much holding it in there.)

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Richard Maine                    | Good judgement comes from experience;
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Barry Margolin - 14 May 2008 04:38 GMT
> > I do like having the iMac's button in the rear.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> power switch was. And it doesn't protrude in a way that makes it real
> obvious if you don't know about what you are feeling for.

Yeah, I remember when I first got mine, it took me about 10 minutes to
find the damn thing!

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Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
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Dudley Henriques - 13 May 2008 18:27 GMT
>>> If you push and hold the power button, it will after a few seconds do a
>>> forced immediate shutdown.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> --Fred
Many thanks.

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Dudley Henriques

Bill - 13 May 2008 17:51 GMT
> >> On the Macbook Pro using Leopard;
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
> accidentally hitting the power button to shut down (like my wife for
> example:-)

The "forced shutdown" from holding down the power button protects the
hard drive from damage, but does nothing about saving any open
documents. So it is better than pulling the power cord. The machine
should start up normally after a forced shutdown of this type.

Normal shutdown asks if you want to save changes in documents if it
finds any open with unsaved changes.

You have to hold the power button down for a fairly long time -- several
seconds -- before the forced shutdown will occur, so there is really not
much danger of causing it inadvertently.

The reason the forced shutdown feature exists is to allow a safe
recovery -- safe in the sense of avoiding hard drive damage -- from the
machine totally freezing up and not responding at all to any commands.
This can occur from what is called "kernel panic" where the operating
system loses track of what it is doing. This is quite rare but can
happen.

Occasionally an individual application may freeze. It may be necessary
to force quit the application. This can be done without forcing a system
shutdown, either by selecting "Force Quit" from the Apple menu, or
pressing the key combination Option-Command-Escape. "Command" is the
Apple-Pretzel key. When you force quit an application, unsaved changes
of any open documents in that application will be lost, but otherwise
the system will be just fine.

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Dudley Henriques - 13 May 2008 18:26 GMT
>>>> On the Macbook Pro using Leopard;
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 45 lines]
> of any open documents in that application will be lost, but otherwise
> the system will be just fine.

Thank you very much.

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Dudley Henriques

Jolly Roger - 13 May 2008 18:09 GMT
> >> On the Macbook Pro using Leopard;
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> with a PC (in other words not good for anything open) or does it simply
> force a normal shutdown duplicating the apple/shutdown normal procedure?

It's as if you ripped the power cord from thee wall. It interrupts power
to the system. The system gets no warning and has no time to prepare.
It's not healthy to do this unless absolutely necessary.

> What I'm trying to understand is whether there is danger in someone
> accidentally hitting the power button to shut down (like my wife for
> example:-)

You have to literally hold it down for like 4 seconds.  It'll be very
hard for someone to do this accidentally.

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Dudley Henriques - 13 May 2008 18:26 GMT
>>>> On the Macbook Pro using Leopard;
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> You have to literally hold it down for like 4 seconds.  It'll be very
> hard for someone to do this accidentally.

Rog; during that 4 seconds you get after a button push, do you get an
option window?

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Dudley Henriques

Jolly Roger - 13 May 2008 18:58 GMT
> >> What I'm trying to understand is whether there is danger in someone
> >> accidentally hitting the power button to shut down (like my wife for
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Rog; during that 4 seconds you get after a button push, do you get an
> option window?

No.  It's really as if you cut the power. The system has no advanced
notification.

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Dudley Henriques - 13 May 2008 19:49 GMT
>>>> What I'm trying to understand is whether there is danger in someone
>>>> accidentally hitting the power button to shut down (like my wife for
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> No.  It's really as if you cut the power. The system has no advanced
> notification.

Thanks.

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Dudley Henriques

Adrian - 13 May 2008 19:11 GMT
> Rog; during that 4 seconds you get after a button push, do you get an
> option window?

You don't ... it's for emergency use only, and as has already been
stated is only one degree better than pulling the power. It's the way to
exit a freeze when all else fails. Don't worry about it though, you (or
wife) could never intiate it by accident.

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Adrian

Dudley Henriques - 13 May 2008 19:49 GMT
>> Rog; during that 4 seconds you get after a button push, do you get an
>> option window?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> exit a freeze when all else fails. Don't worry about it though, you (or
> wife) could never intiate it by accident.

Thanks much.

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Dudley Henriques

isw - 13 May 2008 17:48 GMT
> On the Macbook Pro using Leopard;
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Mac. Does it execute a hard shutdown or throw you an option window?
> Thanks

FWIW, a lot of MacBook users never shut down their machines; they just
close the lid (which puts the thing to sleep). I only shut mine down to
do something like clean the keyboard, and only restart it when I get an
update from Apple that requires a restart, or on the very rare occasion
when something goes really wrong.

Isaac
Dudley Henriques - 13 May 2008 18:25 GMT
>> On the Macbook Pro using Leopard;
>>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> Isaac
Thanks much.

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Dudley Henriques

Ted Lee - 16 May 2008 15:55 GMT
> FWIW, a lot of MacBook users never shut down their machines; they just
> close the lid (which puts the thing to sleep). I only shut mine down to
> do something like clean the keyboard, and only restart it when I get an
> update from Apple that requires a restart, or on the very rare occasion
> when something goes really wrong.

I can't remember the last time I shut down my G4 or my wife's mini, and the
only time I shut down my PowerBook is when I'm going to be taking it on the
road and working off the battery -- while, yes, sleep doesn't use a lot of
power, it does use some!

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Ted Lee
Minnetonka, MN

Calum - 17 May 2008 19:42 GMT
> I can't remember the last time I shut down my G4 or my wife's mini, and the
> only time I shut down my PowerBook is when I'm going to be taking it on the
> road and working off the battery -- while, yes, sleep doesn't use a lot of
> power, it does use some!

Don't you ever install security fixes then?  Some of those (especially
the QuickTime ones) require a restart.
Ted Lee - 21 May 2008 18:51 GMT
>> I can't remember the last time I shut down my G4 or my wife's mini, and
>> the only time I shut down my PowerBook is when I'm going to be taking it
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> Don't you ever install security fixes then?  Some of those (especially the
> QuickTime ones) require a restart.

Well, I could argue that in those cases I'm not shutting it down, Software
Update is!

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Ted Lee
Minnetonka, MN

Richard Maine - 21 May 2008 22:10 GMT
> >> I can't remember the last time I shut down my G4 or my wife's mini, and
> >> the only time I shut down my PowerBook is when I'm going to be taking it
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Well, I could argue that in those cases I'm not shutting it down, Software
> Update is!

And it is usually a restart instead of a shutdown. Yes, the two are
related in that one might say that a shutdown is the first part of a
restart. But since the subject was the use of the power button, it is
relevant that it happens to be completely different between a restart
and a shutdown - you don't use the power button during a restart.

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email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgement.
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Tom Stiller - 13 May 2008 19:31 GMT
> On the Macbook Pro using Leopard;
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Mac. Does it execute a hard shutdown or throw you an option window?
> Thanks

In the Energy Saver preference pane you can configure the power button
to sleep the computer which should be enough to safeguard any open
files, while conserving energy.

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Dudley Henriques - 13 May 2008 19:54 GMT
>> On the Macbook Pro using Leopard;
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> to sleep the computer which should be enough to safeguard any open
> files, while conserving energy.

Tom;
I'm not showing this option in energy saver. I'm in Leopard. Could this
perhaps be automatic in Leopard. I can't remember if this option showed
in Tiger either.

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Dudley Henriques

Tom Stiller - 13 May 2008 20:56 GMT
> >> On the Macbook Pro using Leopard;
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> perhaps be automatic in Leopard. I can't remember if this option showed
> in Tiger either.

For me (10.5.2, 24" iMac Core 2 Duo), it's on the Options pane.

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Dudley Henriques - 13 May 2008 21:01 GMT
>>>> On the Macbook Pro using Leopard;
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> For me (10.5.2, 24" iMac Core 2 Duo), it's on the Options pane.

I have an IMac with Tiger downstairs. It's probably there and not on the
Leopard in my MacBook Pro.

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Dudley Henriques

Jolly Roger - 13 May 2008 21:25 GMT
> >> On the Macbook Pro using Leopard;
> >>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> perhaps be automatic in Leopard. I can't remember if this option showed
> in Tiger either.

IIRC, some Macs don't allow that setting. It's model-specific, I believe.

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Richard Maine - 13 May 2008 20:32 GMT
> In the Energy Saver preference pane you can configure the power button
> to sleep the computer which should be enough to safeguard any open
> files, while conserving energy.

Note that this doesn't affect the business about holding the power
button down for 4 seconds to power off. That still happens, even with
this setting. And you'd want it to because you don't really want to have
to physicaly pull the plug to reset things if you can't get it to shut
down otherwise. (Yes, I've had that happen multiple times; WoW seems
particularly prone to trigger it).

But as others have noted, it isn't something you will do by accident.
You have to be pretty deliberate about it to hold the button in long
enough to trigger that.

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Dudley Henriques - 13 May 2008 20:59 GMT
>> In the Energy Saver preference pane you can configure the power button
>> to sleep the computer which should be enough to safeguard any open
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> You have to be pretty deliberate about it to hold the button in long
> enough to trigger that.

Thanks. What I was concerned about was whether or not, if the power
button was pushed, the system would immediately go into a power shutdown
or throw up a dialog box asking what to do.
I finally tried it after reading all the answers here. On the Macbook
Pro with Leopard, pushing the power button does indeed throw you a
dialog box asking whether you are sure you want to shut down the system,
so this in effect answers my fears about what would happen if my wife
accidentally pushed the button, forgetting to shut down properly.
The dialog box gives you a chance to cancel the function, sleep the
computer, or shut it down.
I guess the only additional thing I really need to know at this point is
 if you choose to shut down the computer from this dialog box; is the
shutdown a normal shutdown as though you shut down starting with the
apple icon drop down menu??
From what I've been reading, if you choose "shutdown" at that point,
it's the same thing as pulling the plug????????????????????

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Dudley Henriques

Richard Maine - 13 May 2008 21:17 GMT
> Thanks. What I was concerned about was whether or not, if the power
> button was pushed, the system would immediately go into a power shutdown
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>  From what I've been reading, if you choose "shutdown" at that point,
> it's the same thing as pulling the plug????????????????????

I don't have my Macs configured this way (I have the option set that
makes the power button sleep instead of) so I can't check for sure, but
I'm fairly sure that's wrong. I would expect that to be a normal
shutdown.

It is the hold-the-power-button-for-4-seconds thing that is essentially
like pulling the plug.

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Dudley Henriques - 13 May 2008 23:50 GMT
>> Thanks. What I was concerned about was whether or not, if the power
>> button was pushed, the system would immediately go into a power shutdown
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> It is the hold-the-power-button-for-4-seconds thing that is essentially
> like pulling the plug.

I'm getting from everybody that this is the case. Thanks.

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Dudley Henriques

Jolly Roger - 13 May 2008 21:24 GMT
> I guess the only additional thing I really need to know at this point is
>   if you choose to shut down the computer from this dialog box; is the
> shutdown a normal shutdown as though you shut down starting with the
> apple icon drop down menu??

Clicking "Shut down" does a normal shut down - similar to the shut down
you get when you choose Apple menu > Shut down.

>  From what I've been reading, if you choose "shutdown" at that point,
> it's the same thing as pulling the plug????????????????????

No.

The thing that is similar to pulling the plug is holding the physical
power button down for 4 seconds or so.

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Dudley Henriques - 13 May 2008 23:50 GMT
>> I guess the only additional thing I really need to know at this point is
>>   if you choose to shut down the computer from this dialog box; is the
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> The thing that is similar to pulling the plug is holding the physical
> power button down for 4 seconds or so.

Got it. Thanks much as always :-)

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Dudley Henriques

Adrian - 13 May 2008 21:54 GMT
> Thanks. What I was concerned about was whether or not, if the power
> button was pushed, the system would immediately go into a power shutdown
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>  From what I've been reading, if you choose "shutdown" at that point,
> it's the same thing as pulling the plug????????????????????

Don't confuse 2 different, if similar, actions. Pressing the button
gives you a dialogue which will then allow a proper sequenced and safe
shutdown.

Holding down the button constantly (without releasing pressure) for
several seconds is what people were talking about. Quite different, and
not something you could do by accident.

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Adrian

Jolly Roger - 13 May 2008 22:11 GMT
> > Thanks. What I was concerned about was whether or not, if the power
> > button was pushed, the system would immediately go into a power shutdown
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> several seconds is what people were talking about. Quite different, and
> not something you could do by accident.

Right, and that's the *physical* button.

The *software* "Shutdown" button only does one thing - a normal shut
down.

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Dudley Henriques - 13 May 2008 23:54 GMT
>> Thanks. What I was concerned about was whether or not, if the power
>> button was pushed, the system would immediately go into a power shutdown
[quoted text clipped - 20 lines]
> several seconds is what people were talking about. Quite different, and
> not something you could do by accident.

Right. I'm talking about the round power button on the right upper side
of the Macbook Pro. I think I'm understanding that if this button is
pushed and released, you get the dialog box with the shutdown or cancel
options. If that same button is pushed and HELD down for about 4
seconds, the resulting shutdown is the same as pulling the plug!
Do I have it right?

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Dudley Henriques

Dave Balderstone - 14 May 2008 00:07 GMT
> Right. I'm talking about the round power button on the right upper side
> of the Macbook Pro. I think I'm understanding that if this button is
> pushed and released, you get the dialog box with the shutdown or cancel
> options. If that same button is pushed and HELD down for about 4
> seconds, the resulting shutdown is the same as pulling the plug!
> Do I have it right?

Yes, you have it right.

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Dudley Henriques - 14 May 2008 01:04 GMT
>> Right. I'm talking about the round power button on the right upper side
>> of the Macbook Pro. I think I'm understanding that if this button is
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Yes, you have it right.

Thanks Dave.

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Dudley Henriques

Jamie Kahn Genet - 14 May 2008 05:39 GMT
> > In the Energy Saver preference pane you can configure the power button
> > to sleep the computer which should be enough to safeguard any open
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> You have to be pretty deliberate about it to hold the button in long
> enough to trigger that.

Uggg! WoW has frozen my 24" iMac MANY times! Grrr... I'm really sick of
that as I'm the sort of player who'll suffer a few less FPS to still
have everything running in the background and easily accessible.

Regards,
Jamie Kahn Genet
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Jolly Roger - 14 May 2008 06:08 GMT
> > > In the Energy Saver preference pane you can configure the power button
> > > to sleep the computer which should be enough to safeguard any open
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> that as I'm the sort of player who'll suffer a few less FPS to still
> have everything running in the background and easily accessible.

That's what SSH is for!  : )

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Richard Maine - 14 May 2008 06:58 GMT
> Uggg! WoW has frozen my 24" iMac MANY times!

Well, not to imply that I'm glad you are having such problems, but... it
is at least nice to know that its not just me. :-(

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Jamie Kahn Genet - 14 May 2008 17:46 GMT
> > Uggg! WoW has frozen my 24" iMac MANY times!
>
> Well, not to imply that I'm glad you are having such problems, but... it
> is at least nice to know that its not just me. :-(

Likewise. It's a known issue with WoW apparently.
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Gerrit Kruijer - 16 May 2008 21:09 GMT
Op 2008-05-13 15:44:43 +0200, zei Dudley Henriques <dhenriques@rcn.com>:

> On the Macbook Pro using Leopard;
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Mac. Does it execute a hard shutdown or throw you an option window?
> Thanks

I'll do that occasionly when my Macbook does not react at all. You lose
some data if you did not save that before.
After a restart it can take a little bit longer sometimes.
But pushing the button ant choose shut down is always the best option,
of course.
Regards,
Gerrit
Dudley Henriques - 16 May 2008 21:55 GMT
> Op 2008-05-13 15:44:43 +0200, zei Dudley Henriques <dhenriques@rcn.com>:
>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Regards,
> Gerrit

Many thanks for the reply.

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Dudley Henriques

 
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