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Mac Forum / Applications / Mac Applications / March 2008



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Need noise reducer for digital photographs

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Robert Peirce - 18 Mar 2008 20:14 GMT
All the products I have seen come as PhotoShop plug-ins.  I need a
stand-alone app.  Does anybody know of any?

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Robert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA  724-941-6883
bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac]
rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office]

Clever Monkey - 18 Mar 2008 20:31 GMT
> All the products I have seen come as PhotoShop plug-ins.  I need a
> stand-alone app.  Does anybody know of any?

Noise Ninja is stand-alone if you want it, I think.

http://www.picturecode.com/download.htm
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Robert Peirce - 18 Mar 2008 22:16 GMT
> > All the products I have seen come as PhotoShop plug-ins.  I need a
> > stand-alone app.  Does anybody know of any?
> >
> Noise Ninja is stand-alone if you want it, I think.
>
> http://www.picturecode.com/download.htm

Yea, I downloaded it but it only works on jpg and tif files.  I shoot
RAW and edit RAW.  To use it I would have to convert my image and do all
my processing that way.  I'm not sure I would ever use it enough that
way to make it worthwhile.

I have to dig further into the manual to see if they offer a way to
handle RAW.

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Robert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA  724-941-6883
bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac]
rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office]

Dave Balderstone - 18 Mar 2008 22:21 GMT
> Yea, I downloaded it but it only works on jpg and tif files.  I shoot
> RAW and edit RAW.  To use it I would have to convert my image and do all
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I have to dig further into the manual to see if they offer a way to
> handle RAW.

A Google search for "raw noise reduction mac -filter" turns up "Bibble".

<http://bibblelabs.com/>

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Robert Peirce - 18 Mar 2008 22:51 GMT
> > Yea, I downloaded it but it only works on jpg and tif files.  I shoot
> > RAW and edit RAW.  To use it I would have to convert my image and do all
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> <http://bibblelabs.com/>

Thanks.  I was checking VersionTracker and it did not bring up Bibble.  
I will download it and check it out.

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Robert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA  724-941-6883
bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac]
rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office]

Robert Peirce - 18 Mar 2008 23:12 GMT
> > > Yea, I downloaded it but it only works on jpg and tif files.  I shoot
> > > RAW and edit RAW.  To use it I would have to convert my image and do all
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> Thanks.  I was checking VersionTracker and it did not bring up Bibble.  
> I will download it and check it out.

Still no joy.  Bibble will open the RAW files but won't save them as
RAW.  Consequently, I cannot continue to edit the file in my usual
editor.

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Robert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA  724-941-6883
bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac]
rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office]

nospam - 18 Mar 2008 23:30 GMT
> Still no joy.  Bibble will open the RAW files but won't save them as
> RAW.  Consequently, I cannot continue to edit the file in my usual
> editor.

in order to reduce noise, the raw data must be converted into an actual
image (jpg, tiff, etc.).  at that point, there is no way to go back to
raw.
Ockham's Razor - 19 Mar 2008 00:55 GMT
> > Still no joy.  Bibble will open the RAW files but won't save them as
> > RAW.  Consequently, I cannot continue to edit the file in my usual
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> image (jpg, tiff, etc.).  at that point, there is no way to go back to
> raw.

Jeeze.

What is to stop you from using any noise reduction application on a file
"reduced" to JPEG but save the RAW file.  Then if your heart desires to
re-edit the picture, do it to the RAW file, save as JPEG again and print
(or what ever you do).  

Just keep the RAW file so you can continue to play with it to your
hearts content.  The conversion to JPEG is miniscule.

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Robert Peirce - 20 Mar 2008 13:47 GMT
> > > Still no joy.  Bibble will open the RAW files but won't save them as
> > > RAW.  Consequently, I cannot continue to edit the file in my usual
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> Just keep the RAW file so you can continue to play with it to your
> hearts content.  The conversion to JPEG is miniscule.

That is one of the reasons I like LightZone.  It just saves the edit
stack and leaves the image alone.  You don't even need an intermediate
image to print.

Of course, the big problem is passing an image from one app to the next.  
They just don't work like Unix pipes, which is the real shame.  Each app
does its own thing and the user has to figure out how to make one work
with the other without having to save too may intermediate files.

At this point I just got a trial to DxO.  If it is as good as everybody
says, I may end up using it on my RAW files, saving them to tif and
opening the tif files in LightZone for further editing.

What would really be neat but probably beyond hope would be for every
app to save a tool stack and every app to be able to open every other
app's tool stack.

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Robert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA  724-941-6883
bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac]
rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office]

Dave Balderstone - 19 Mar 2008 01:07 GMT
> Still no joy.  Bibble will open the RAW files but won't save them as
> RAW.  Consequently, I cannot continue to edit the file in my usual
> editor.

What is your "usual editor"?

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Mike Rosenberg - 19 Mar 2008 13:25 GMT
> Still no joy.  Bibble will open the RAW files but won't save them as
> RAW.  Consequently, I cannot continue to edit the file in my usual
> editor.

Perhaps if we knew what your usual editor is we could provide better
advice.

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nospam - 19 Mar 2008 21:15 GMT
> > Still no joy.  Bibble will open the RAW files but won't save them as
> > RAW.  Consequently, I cannot continue to edit the file in my usual
> > editor.
>
> Perhaps if we knew what your usual editor is we could provide better
> advice.

elsewhere in the thread he said his editor was lightzone.  regardless,
there is no way to 'save it as raw.'  once the data is processed into
an image, it's no longer raw and there's no going back.
Robert Peirce - 20 Mar 2008 13:39 GMT
> > Still no joy.  Bibble will open the RAW files but won't save them as
> > RAW.  Consequently, I cannot continue to edit the file in my usual
> > editor.
>
> Perhaps if we knew what your usual editor is we could provide better
> advice.

LightZone.  It works with RAW, tif and jpg.  However, I think all
editors are pretty much the same in this regard.

One exception, if I understand it correctly is Adobe's DNG format.  This
seems to be an attempt at a public domain RAW format.  If it is and it
becomes generally accepted, it could provide a solution.

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Robert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA  724-941-6883
bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac]
rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office]

Clever Monkey - 19 Mar 2008 21:31 GMT
>>>> Yea, I downloaded it but it only works on jpg and tif files.  I shoot
>>>> RAW and edit RAW.  To use it I would have to convert my image and do all
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
> RAW.  Consequently, I cannot continue to edit the file in my usual
> editor.

I'm not surprised.  There is no such thing, really, as a "RAW" file (I
hate how that is always in all-caps, even though it is not an acronym).
 There are many different raw type formats.  Each camera has its own
raw format, and it depends on the camera vendor how much of the data and
metadata contained in the file is accessible for read, and for write.

So, writing /back/ to a specific format of raw format is almost
certainly never going to be common.  This would require the tool
understanding the format and being coded to use a vendor specific SDK,
assuming that the vendor supplies the SDK at all.  This is one of the
problems that Adobe is trying to solve with DNG.

So, your choices tend to be:

1. Use a non-destructive digital manipulation app that applies noise
reduction (via a plugin or built in) to the image when exporting to
another format.  The noise reduction is simply applied to the image data
at the ideal place in the "edit stack" that includes all the other white
balance, colour, exposure and cropping changes you have made along with
noise reduction.

2. Consider NR a last step before publishing, and run your raw images
through some plugin or app as a final processing step before making a
TIFF or JPEG that is your "print".  That is, like traditional
processing, you don't apply NR to the negative, but to the print.
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Jolly Roger - 18 Mar 2008 22:43 GMT
> All the products I have seen come as PhotoShop plug-ins.  I need a
> stand-alone app.  Does anybody know of any?

Aperature seems to have noise reduction functionality built-in:

<http://www.apple.com/aperture/features/>

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Claude V. Lucas - 18 Mar 2008 22:50 GMT
>> All the products I have seen come as PhotoShop plug-ins.  I need a
>> stand-alone app.  Does anybody know of any?
>
>Aperature seems to have noise reduction functionality built-in:
>
><http://www.apple.com/aperture/features/>

As does iPhoto...
Robert Peirce - 18 Mar 2008 23:13 GMT
> In article
> <jollyroger-C8082F.16434618032008@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>,
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>
> As does iPhoto...

As does my current editor, LightZone.  However, none of them seem to
have the power of apps like Noise Ninja.

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Robert B. Peirce, Venetia, PA  724-941-6883
bob AT peirce-family.com [Mac]
rbp AT cooksonpeirce.com [Office]

 
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