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Mac Forum / Applications / Mac Applications / March 2008



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Anyone else mucking with SLRN around here?

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Lewis - 18 Mar 2008 07:57 GMT
If anyone is using slrn in these groups, would you mind sharing your
filters/rules?  I think I am starting to get a handle on how it does its
scoring, but some fuidence would be great.  In particular, if anyone has
a good rulse for dealing with the festering boil that is csm.advocacy.

I'm not sold on using it, it is in many way much better thatn MTNW, but
it is still a CLI browser. I also don't like the fact taht quick and
painless killing of posters and threads is something you need to go
through some considerable effort to add.
D P Schreber - 18 Mar 2008 11:27 GMT
> If anyone is using slrn in these groups, would you mind sharing your
> filters/rules?  I think I am starting to get a handle on how it does its
> scoring, but some fuidence would be great.  In particular, if anyone has
> a good rulse for dealing with the festering boil that is csm.advocacy.

If you want to set a score of, say, -9999 for articles cross-posted to
csm.advocacy from anywhere the rule would be:

[*]
  Score: -9999
  Xref: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

By default a score that low will be filtered.

Or you could restrict the search to cross-posts from other csm groups:

[comp.sys.mac.*]
  Score: -9999
  Xref: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

Or you could score posts to _any_ advocacy group from any csm group:

[comp.sys.mac.*]
  Score: -9999
  Xref: advocacy

Etc etc.  It's a very flexible language, and, like everything else in
slrn, much faster at runtime than any gui reader.

Of course it takes a lot less time to score the fields that the server
makes available in the header prefetch than it does to score other
header fields, or the entire body.  So if speed is important to you,
you should always restrict your filtering to operations that can be
performed on prefetchable headers.  This applies to all news readers.
Lewis - 18 Mar 2008 12:27 GMT
>> If anyone is using slrn in these groups, would you mind sharing your
>> filters/rules?  I think I am starting to get a handle on how it does its
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>    Score: -9999
>    Xref: comp.sys.mac.advocacy

Right, now say I wanted to score post that were cross-posted to
csm.advocay but not catch posts that were posted ONLY to advocacy? Or is
Xref exclusively the bastion of cross-posts?

> By default a score that low will be filtered.

It appears that any negative score will be at least marked as read.  Is
that settable? I'd like to have articles with a small neagtive not be
marked automatically as read.

and how about the various spammers?

> Etc etc.  It's a very flexible language, and, like everything else in
> slrn, much faster at runtime than any gui reader.

Contitionals (if poster is from googlegroups AND quoted lines are more
than non quoted lines) or (if poster is from 'sales' OR 'store' or
'handbag'

That looks like, if I have it right:

[*]
Score: -5000
{:
 From: store
 From: sales
 From: handbag
 From: yahoo.com.cn
}

> Of course it takes a lot less time to score the fields that the server
> makes available in the header prefetch than it does to score other
> header fields, or the entire body.  So if speed is important to you,
> you should always restrict your filtering to operations that can be
> performed on prefetchable headers.  This applies to all news readers.

I still haven't decided if this is going to work or not.  I am currently
using it with just vim and doing it all in the terminal, but I am
finding I hate not having a GUI editor for things like spelling and
typos.  I don't know if, for example, I can tell bbedit to hard-wrap at
72 characters automatically or if it's something I would have to remeber
to do each time.

Anyway, I haven't decided yet what I'm going to do.

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D P Schreber - 18 Mar 2008 13:03 GMT
> Right, now say I wanted to score post that were cross-posted to
> csm.advocay but not catch posts that were posted ONLY to advocacy?

I'll have to think more about that one -- I've never done this
specifically.

> Or is Xref exclusively the bastion of cross-posts?

No.

> It appears that any negative score will be at least marked as read.  Is
> that settable? I'd like to have articles with a small neagtive not be
> marked automatically as read.

You can set various "score" variables in your .slrnrc.  I believe
max_low_score sets the threshold for articles marked as read by the
scoring.

> and how about the various spammers?

Depends how clever they are.  If they always use simple variants of
the same value in some standard header, you can catch them that way:

 Score: =-9999
 Subject: M.?I.?5.P

catches the MI5 lunacy.

In general you can use an existing article to create a score entry and
then edit it to make it more general if necessary.

> I still haven't decided if this is going to work or not.  

The biggest win with slrn is speed -- you'll waste a lot less time on
all the junk in usenet if you use slrn.  That's my motivation.  You
can also run it remotely without the huge overhead of vnc.

> I am currently using it with just vim and doing it all in the
> terminal, but I am finding I hate not having a GUI editor for things
> like spelling and typos.  I don't know if, for example, I can tell
> bbedit to hard-wrap at 72 characters automatically or if it's
> something I would have to remeber to do each time.

If you're comfortable with emacs I would recommend using carbon emacs
(trivial to make one in leopard) and setting the slrn editor to
emacsclient.  I have my emacs set up so that it automatically enables
auto-fill and flyspell modes for slrn articles (and mutt composition
windows).  All the spelling errors in my posts are my own fault :)

You should be able to do something similar with carbon gvim, which is
easy to build, though not as easy in leopard as carbon emacs.

For sure you can open BBEdit as your slrn editor, but I don't remember
enough about BB to tell you how to set the wrap.  I haven't used
BBEdit since carbon emacs became available.  If you go with using an
'open' command as your slrn editor, be sure to use -W.
Lewis - 18 Mar 2008 13:53 GMT
>> I am currently using it with just vim and doing it all in the
>> terminal, but I am finding I hate not having a GUI editor for things
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> auto-fill and flyspell modes for slrn articles (and mutt composition
> windows).  All the spelling errors in my posts are my own fault :)

I'm vi/nano/bbedit/a hard rocka and a chisel, not emacs. :)

> You should be able to do something similar with carbon gvim, which is
> easy to build, though not as easy in leopard as carbon emacs.

I've had 'issues' trying to get it to work with gvim.app, and the
macports vim is set to build without support for -g, and I've not found
a way to change that.

I thought setting the editor_command to

"/Applications/3rd/MacVim.app/Contents/MacOS/Vim -g '%s'" would do it,
but things didn't quite work.  Of course, gvim is only a sort of
solution as it doesn't give me the interactive spell checking I want.

> For sure you can open BBEdit as your slrn editor, but I don't remember
> enough about BB to tell you how to set the wrap.  I haven't used
> BBEdit since carbon emacs became available.  If you go with using an
> 'open' command as your slrn editor, be sure to use -W.

Yeah, bbedit works well except for having to remeber to hard wrap the
message every time.

post_editor_command "bbedit -t "NNTP POST" ---new-window '%s'"

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D P Schreber - 19 Mar 2008 02:28 GMT
> I thought setting the editor_command to
>
> "/Applications/3rd/MacVim.app/Contents/MacOS/Vim -g '%s'" would do it,
> but things didn't quite work.  Of course, gvim is only a sort of
> solution as it doesn't give me the interactive spell checking I
> want.

In general the best way to launch a .app is with 'open'.  In this case
you would probably want something like:

open -a MacVim -W -n %s

This should open a new instance of the gvim app editing the article
you're composing.  The open call will then block until you finish your
edit and quit.

I rarely use vim in any form but I'm almost certain you can get it to
spell-check using ispell via the vimispell plugin.  This should work
in console vim as well.  Of course you'll need to install ispell if
you haven't already.
Huan - 18 Mar 2008 21:38 GMT
> If anyone is using slrn in these groups, would you mind sharing your
> filters/rules?  I think I am starting to get a handle on how it does its
> scoring, but some fuidence would be great.  In particular, if anyone has
> a good rulse for dealing with the festering boil that is csm.advocacy.

You've already received some responses with samples from the scorefile
and I'm also curious about excluding any crossposted messages.

Have you tried the "interactive" scorefile entry by typing "k" while
reading a post?  It prompts you to choose the score value (usually -9999
and I only create entries to kill things so that's good), how many
newsgroups it will affect, and so on.  But the headers of the article go
into the scorefile no matter what you chose at the prompts, so if you
continue on through the prompting there will be an option to edit the
scorefile.  Then you can enter more headers by hand or remove the "%"
from several, or whatever you want.

> I'm not sold on using it, it is in many way much better thatn MTNW, but
> it is still a CLI browser. I also don't like the fact taht quick and
> painless killing of posters and threads is something you need to go
> through some considerable effort to add.

Well, typing "k" and following prompts is easier than any other
filtering I've tried.

I also like following links by cmd-shift-double click, although I liked
it better before Leopard when it was only cmd-double click.  Nano is a
super easy editor.

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D P Schreber - 19 Mar 2008 02:30 GMT
> I also like following links by cmd-shift-double click, although I liked
> it better before Leopard when it was only cmd-double click.

I find it easier to right-click and select "Open URL" from the menu.
Huan - 19 Mar 2008 02:10 GMT
>> I also like following links by cmd-shift-double click, although I liked
>> it better before Leopard when it was only cmd-double click.
>
> I find it easier to right-click and select "Open URL" from the menu.

The "hockey puck" mouse has only one button.  :-)

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Lewis - 19 Mar 2008 06:24 GMT
>> If anyone is using slrn in these groups, would you mind sharing your
>> filters/rules?  

> Have you tried the "interactive" scorefile entry by typing "k" while
> reading a post?

Yep, I sure have.  although 'K' and then 'e' is faster.

> It prompts you to choose the score value (usually -9999
> and I only create entries to kill things so that's good),

I create entries to subtract points for google groups, add points for
threads I am taking part in, add points threads a couple of other people
are posting in, and subtract lots of points from some others.

> Well, typing "k" and following prompts is easier than any other
> filtering I've tried.

Oh, in most newsreaders (even going back to the ancient<1> rn and nn)
killing a thread was a one key-stroke event.  And it really did KILL it.

Same with killfiling a user.

> I also like following links by cmd-shift-double click, although I liked
> it better before Leopard when it was only cmd-double click.  Nano is a
> super easy editor.

nano is a very nice editor.  But I want something that speaks OS X services
and OS X spelling.  See, I make LOTS of typos.  LOTS.  I've been typing
since I was 5 years-old, and that means that I never really learnt it well,
but I THINK I did, so I tend to type much faster than I really should, and
some words I type wrong so often it's kind of embarrassing.

<1> perhaps 'venerable' is a better choice.

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frank - 18 Mar 2008 21:43 GMT
> If anyone is using slrn in these groups, would you mind sharing your
> filters/rules?  I think I am starting to get a handle on how it does its
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> painless killing of posters and threads is something you need to go
> through some considerable effort to add.

Lewis,

Not of immediate value, but there was an extensive conversation on slrn in
the Ubuntu newsgroup, and the consensus of those who participated in the
discussion and ultimately took it up and refined its behavior seemed quite
positive.

Care to try Pan under OS X.  It's quite a fine newsreader and should run
without pain.  I, for whatever reason, only access Usenet from this Linux
PC, though I do have a few subscriptions under Thunderbird on my MBP for
those rare occasions...

Frank

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Lewis - 19 Mar 2008 06:16 GMT
>> If anyone is using slrn in these groups, would you mind sharing your
>> filters/rules?  

> Care to try Pan under OS X.  It's quite a fine newsreader and should run
> without pain.  I, for whatever reason, only access Usenet from this Linux
> PC, though I do have a few subscriptions under Thunderbird on my MBP for
> those rare occasions...

I'v never heard of Pan.

<looks>

OK, that looks like an X app, am I right?

What I am trying to get to is something with the speed of slrn, and the
editing of BBEdit (and all the OS X goodness that comes with that).  I
almost have it.

set post_editor_command "FILE='%s';bbedit -w --new-window
$FILE;/opt/local/bin/fortune ~/mysigs >> $FILE"

that's my current editor command, and it works perfectly.  The issue
is that BBEdit either does not wrap at 72 characters, or it wraps EVERY-
THING at 72 characters, including the headers.  This breaks Refrences: and
X-Faces (not mine, but in theory).

I tried this:

set post_editor_command "FILE='%s';cp $FILE ${FILE}.new;bbedit -w --new-window
${FILE}.new;fmt -m -72 ${FILE}.new > $FILE;/opt/local/bin/fortune ~/mysigs >>
$FILE"

but the fmt command does not actually deal with the news headers correctly, and so it munges the post completely.  Right now, I just have to use soft-wrap in BBedit and then remember to go back in and add CRs

Obviously, both those set blocks are a single line.

So, I will probably end up with the second version, I just need to either
find, or write, a script that will work like fmt.  In fact, I may just have
the script strip the headers, run the rest through fmt, and then re-add the
headers.

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