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Mac Forum / Applications / Mac Applications / March 2008



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PayPal: Steer clear of Safari

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Jim Higgins - 29 Feb 2008 19:46 GMT
PayPal: Steer clear of Safari
http://www.macworld.com/article/132285/2008/02/paypal.html

If you're using Apple's Safari browser, PayPal has some advice for you:
Drop it, at least if you want to avoid online fraud.

Safari doesn't make PayPal's list of recommended browsers because it
doesn't have two important anti-phishing security features, according to
Michael Barrett, PayPal's chief information security officer.

"Apple, unfortunately, is lagging behind what they need to do, to
protect their customers," Barrett said in an interview. "Our
recommendation at this point, to our customers, is use Internet Explorer
7 or 8 when it comes out, or Firefox 2 or Firefox 3, or indeed Opera."

Safari is the default browser on Apple's Macintosh computers and the
iPhone, but it is also available for the PC. Both Firefox and Opera run
on the Mac.

Unlike its competitors, Safari has no built-in phishing filter to warn
users when they are visiting suspicious Web sites, Barrett said. Another
problem is Safari's lack of support for another anti-phishing
technology, called Extended Validation (EV) certificates. This is a
secure Web browsing technology that turns the address bar green when the
browser is visiting a legitimate Web site.

When it comes to fighting phishing, "Safari has got nothing in terms of
security support, only SSL (Secure Sockets Layer encryption), that's
it," he said. Apple representatives weren't immediately available to
comment on this story.

An emerging technology, EV certificates are already supported in
Internet Explorer 7, and they've been used on PayPal's Web site for more
than a year now. When IE 7 visits PayPal, the browser's address bar
turns green -- a sign to users that the site is legitimate. Upcoming
versions of Firefox and Opera are expected to support the technology.

But EV certificates have their critics. Last year, researchers at
Microsoft and Stanford University published a study showing that,
without training, people were unlikely to notice the green address-bar
notification provided by EV certificates.

Still, Barrett says data compiled on PayPal's Web site show that the EV
certificates are having an effect. He says IE 7 users are more likely to
sign on to PayPal's Web site than users who don't have EV certificate
technology, presumably because they're confident that they're visiting a
legitimate site.

Over the past few months, IE 7 users have been less likely to drop out
and abandon the process of signing on to PayPal, he said. "It's a
several percentage-point drop in abandonment rates," he said. "That
number is... measurably lower for IE 7 users."

Opera, IE, and Firefox are "safer, precisely because we think they are
safer for the average consumer," he added. "I'd love to say that Safari
was a safer browser, but at this point it isn't."

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Lloyd Parsons - 29 Feb 2008 20:21 GMT
> PayPal: Steer clear of Safari
> http://www.macworld.com/article/132285/2008/02/paypal.html
[quoted text clipped - 52 lines]
> safer for the average consumer," he added. "I'd love to say that Safari
> was a safer browser, but at this point it isn't."

This should only be an issue if you go to paypal from a link somewhere
else.  Like the email crapola we all get to see almost daily.  Or from a
web site that isn't all that good either.

I can't see how Safari would be any worse than any other if you go to
the site directly.  That is the only way I go to paypal.
Dave Balderstone - 29 Feb 2008 20:30 GMT
> This should only be an issue if you go to paypal from a link somewhere
> else.  Like the email crapola we all get to see almost daily.  Or from a
> web site that isn't all that good either.
>
> I can't see how Safari would be any worse than any other if you go to
> the site directly.  That is the only way I go to paypal.

Indeed. This is just another example of FUD...

Don't want to fall for a phishing scam? Have more than five firing
neurons and learn how to use them.

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Howard Brazee - 29 Feb 2008 20:42 GMT
>> I can't see how Safari would be any worse than any other if you go to
>> the site directly.  That is the only way I go to paypal.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Don't want to fall for a phishing scam? Have more than five firing
>neurons and learn how to use them.

PayPal has a huge interest in killing off Phishing.   Idiots who don't
know how to be safe are avoiding using PayPal altogether, and that
costs them money, as idiots are such a large population.
Dave Balderstone - 29 Feb 2008 22:43 GMT
> >> I can't see how Safari would be any worse than any other if you go to
> >> the site directly.  That is the only way I go to paypal.
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> know how to be safe are avoiding using PayPal altogether, and that
> costs them money, as idiots are such a large population.

They're doing a f.cking piss-poor job of it, then.

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Marc Heusser - 01 Mar 2008 21:24 GMT
> PayPal has a huge interest in killing off Phishing.   Idiots who don't
> know how to be safe are avoiding using PayPal altogether, and that
> costs them money,

Indeed, they do charge a lot for their services.
Good idea to avoid them anyway.

As for not falling for Phishing, good spam filters are very helpful,
because then you will most likely not see the emails that contain the
phishing links.

SpamSieve highly recommended, easy to install and use for anyone.
see http://c-command.com/spamsieve/

HTH

Marc

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Lloyd Parsons - 01 Mar 2008 21:49 GMT
In article <marc.heusser-719D29.22243201032008@news.uzh.ch>,
Marc Heusser <marc.heusser@byeheusser.commercialspammers.invalid>
wrote:

> > PayPal has a huge interest in killing off Phishing.   Idiots who don't
> > know how to be safe are avoiding using PayPal altogether, and that
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> Marc

In the case of Paypal, it really is easy to tell.  If you have a link in
email to Paypal, or email from Paypal, you can almost bet the bank that
it is a phishing attempt.

For that matter, anyone so dumb that they click a link in an unsolicited
email has got to be just too damn dumb to use a computer these days.  If
you want to look at your bank, paypal or any other of the financial
accounts you might have, ALWAYS go direct at the browser and not in
email.
AV3 - 01 Mar 2008 22:16 GMT
> In article <marc.heusser-719D29.22243201032008@news.uzh.ch>,
>  Marc Heusser <marc.heusser@byeheusser.commercialspammers.invalid>
[quoted text clipped - 26 lines]
> accounts you might have, ALWAYS go direct at the browser and not in
> email.

The problem isn't unsolicited mail but authentic-seeming warnings from a
service to which I voluntarily subscribe. There is so much phishing
seeming to come from Paypal and its parent eBay, that I forward all mail
from them to <spoof@paypal.com> or <spoof@ebay.com> and they are very
good at notifying me of the character of the forwarded mail, unlike
others who only acknowledge receipt of a forwarded message without
further comment. I hope this keeps them aware of what is going on in the
outside word in their name. Occasionally they do send out an authentic
mailing,

Signature

++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++

||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., <arvimideQ@Wearthlink.net>    ||
||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., <arvimideQ@Wearthlink.net>   ||
||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/    ||
||    Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso  ||
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
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They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You
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Lloyd Parsons - 02 Mar 2008 00:19 GMT
> > In article <marc.heusser-719D29.22243201032008@news.uzh.ch>,
> >  Marc Heusser <marc.heusser@byeheusser.commercialspammers.invalid>
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> outside word in their name. Occasionally they do send out an authentic
> mailing,

But usually they say don't use links in email to get to them.  I know
for a fact Paypal does because I've gotten the email from them saying so.

As for Ebay, there is almost zero mail from them unless I'm selling or
buying.  If I get something out of the blue, then I go to ebay directly
and check the mail there.  If it isn't there, it isn't legitimate.  
Literally the same thing with Paypal.  If it isn't in the messaging at
Paypal, it isn't legit.

I mean come on, even the banks don't send out mail saying check this or
other hogwash that has a link, or at least not any I deal with.  All
email is info only, no links.  So a link is a clue...

And yes, you can get spam filters and such and they work to a greater or
lesser extent, but they cannot and don't totally protect, only give the
impression they are.
AV3 - 02 Mar 2008 03:45 GMT
>>> In article <marc.heusser-719D29.22243201032008@news.uzh.ch>,
>>>  Marc Heusser <marc.heusser@byeheusser.commercialspammers.invalid>
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> But usually they say don't use links in email to get to them.  I know
> for a fact Paypal does because I've gotten the email from them saying so.

Quite right. I only meant to praise their responsiveness.

> As for Ebay, there is almost zero mail from them unless I'm selling or
> buying.  If I get something out of the blue, then I go to ebay directly
> and check the mail there.  If it isn't there, it isn't legitimate.  
> Literally the same thing with Paypal.  If it isn't in the messaging at
> Paypal, it isn't legit.

Quite right again. I use both very seldom, so it is easier to forward
suspicious mail to the addresses I indicated rather than going to a
browser and logging in to an infrequently visited site. Often I look at
the links and note "misspelled" addressees.

> I mean come on, even the banks don't send out mail saying check this or
> other hogwash that has a link, or at least not any I deal with.  All
> email is info only, no links.  So a link is a clue...

The banks I use are much less responsive than Paypal and eBay. Actually,
the filters I use are very effective, and I seldom get more than three
phishing expeditions a week getting through the filters. The most
effective way to beat the filter is using a permitted address, like AOL
or my ISP itself, so that in itself awakens suspicion.

> And yes, you can get spam filters and such and they work to a greater or
> lesser extent, but they cannot and don't totally protect, only give the
> impression they are.

Right again. The price of liberty from SPAM is eternal vigilance. My
experience is that the seemingly familiar needs more vigilance than the
unsolicited, which only reaches me through poorly moderated message
groups. The content is usually so wildly at variance with the topics of
the group that it is easily spotted, i. e., an English-language offer of
prurient interest in a foreign language practice group.

Signature

++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++

||Arnold VICTOR, New York City, i. e., <arvimideQ@Wearthlink.net>    ||
||Arnoldo VIKTORO, Nov-jorkurbo, t. e., <arvimideQ@Wearthlink.net>   ||
||Remove capital letters from e-mail address for correct address/    ||
||    Forigu majusklajn literojn el e-poŝta adreso por ĝusta adreso  ||
++====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====+====+=====+=====+=====+=====+====++
NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, the National Security
Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice.
They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You
have no recourse or protection.
Salmon Egg - 01 Mar 2008 22:04 GMT
Hell! avoid PayPal if you can. I bought what I thought was an eight foot
length of aluminum channel. To my surprise, I received two four-foot
pieces. PayPal sided with the vendor by saying that I got what was
advertised. No explanation. No appeal. Whatever explanation was given is
equivalent to two one-carat diamonds being equivalent to one two-carat
diamond.

Bill
Mike Rosenberg - 01 Mar 2008 22:11 GMT
> Indeed, they do charge a lot for their services.

Who charges less to let me accept payments by credit card?

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