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Mac Forum / Applications / Mac Applications / February 2008Mac Leopard becoming extremely slow when RAM begin to swap with harddrive
Maybe this is better address in the mac apps newsgroup: So much as I like Mac, how come Leopard on a new Macbook with 1GB RAM can become extremely slow when Firefox together with Safari start to hog 200MB and 300MB respectively and the RAM seems to start to swap to hard drive... first, isn't it 1GB RAM, so swapping should start around 700 or 800MB? why does it start at 500MB? (as seen in Activities Monitor). second, why do Safari 3 and Firefox 2 both hog so much memory... Microsoft's IE on Windows turn out to be much less of a memory hog. (I usually turn the Macbook on overnight, and after 2, 3 days, and possibly with pages with Flash and about 5,6 tabs open). Not only that... when Leopard starts to swap RAM with hard drive space, then I can't even quit Safari or Firefox.... it will keep on being "Application Not Responding" for 20 minutes until I do a force quit... hm... hope that will be fixed.... In article <6fabdb19-383f-4609-96ed-2159d28f45e3@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > Maybe this is better address in the mac apps newsgroup: > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > 700 or 800MB? why does it start at 500MB? (as seen in Activities > Monitor). At 500MB for what, exactly? Activity Monitor shows a variety of different things related to RAM usage. > second, why do Safari 3 and Firefox 2 both hog so much memory... > Microsoft's IE on Windows turn out to be much less of a memory hog. > (I usually turn the Macbook on overnight, and after 2, 3 days, and > possibly > with pages with Flash and about 5,6 tabs open). Safari uses so much memory because it leaks memory like crazy. I don't use Firefox as much but I suspect it's a similar reason. > Not only that... when Leopard starts to swap RAM with hard drive > space, then I can't even quit Safari or Firefox.... it will keep on > being "Application Not Responding" for 20 minutes until I do a force > quit... You must be a very patient person, I don't think I could wait that long.  SignatureTom "Tom" Harrington Independent Mac OS X developer since 2002 http://www.atomicbird.com/ On Jan 24, 4:57 pm, Tom Harrington <t...@pcisys.no.spam.dammit.net> wrote: > > Not only that... when Leopard starts to swap RAM with hard drive > > space, then I can't even quit Safari or Firefox.... it will keep on > > being "Application Not Responding" for 20 minutes until I do a force > > quit... > > You must be a very patient person, I don't think I could wait that long. yeah, i was like let's see if it gets done in a few minutes and i went away to do some other stuff. when i am back it is still try to close the app... so it probably won't quit if it can't for 20 minutes so i did a force quit. thank for your kind response... some people on my other post was like "you are responsible for your own machine and apps", "you are excessive to expect apple to fix it for you". In article <ebc05760-9615-480a-8f01-c91b5924d111@e6g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > On Jan 24, 4:57 pm, Tom Harrington <t...@pcisys.no.spam.dammit.net> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > "you are responsible for your own machine and apps", "you are > excessive to expect apple to fix it for you". Actually, the responses were along the lines of agreement that the situation wasn't tolerable but assurance that it also was not normal in any sense and therefore almost certainly a local issue rather than something systemic that Apple *could* fix. It might not even be something that they know about unless you've told them, so musing in a public forum that you hope they can fix it won't be fruitful. People even asked for further information, presumably to help you identify the cause of the issue, but instead of answering those questions you became hostile. > People even asked for further information, presumably to help you > identify the cause of the issue, but instead of answering those > questions you became hostile. This is your post down below. How friendly were you? saying that "You just answered your own question" -- implying what? that I didn't know that and dumb, and "excessive" and not right. You may not know about it -- you make rather condescending implications. Look at your own paragraphs: > You've just answered your own question. Hard drives - epecially notebook HDs - are *much* slower than RAM. We're talking several orders of magnitude. > *That's* excessive. You can hope that it "will be fixed" but it's going to take some effort on your part to diagnose and correct because it's not a normal (mis)behavior of Leopard, Safari or FireFox. Whatever's going wrong that's causing lags that long is about your machine, not inherent in the software you're using. In article <16e8af9f-4b80-47ce-a47c-d074142c25b2@f10g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > > People even asked for further information, presumably to help you > > identify the cause of the issue, but instead of answering those > > questions you became hostile. > > This is your post down below. How friendly were you? Friendly? I'm never friendly. I'm always polite, though, unless severely provoked. > saying that > "You just answered your own question" -- implying what? Um. That the answer to your question was sitting right there in the question as posed. Nothing more. Certainly nothing pejorative. You asked why your machine slowed down drastically when you started hitting VM. The (general) answer is that you started hitting VM. It's much slower. I offered clarification of how much slower you should expect. I hadn't finished reading your message at that point. > that I didn't know that and dumb, and "excessive" and not right. You've read far too much into my response. And apparently misread outright. What I meant was excessive - and I thought that was clear in context but I see now it was easy to misconstrue - was the degree of slowdown you were experiencing, as I read the rest of your message. Meaning that while slowing down due to VM is normal, slowing down that much isn't. > You may not know about it -- you make rather condescending implications. > Look at your own paragraphs: I know what I wrote. You apparently don't. Rather than chastising me for my implications, you might want to take a look at your own inferences. I restored the context so you can see it again with fresh eyes. Oh, and a friendly hint: Nothing useful ever happens on any usenet group that starts with 'comp' and ends with 'advocacy.' The last chunk of the group name should really be 'argue.without.caring.about.facts.' ** So much as I like Mac, how come Leopard on a new Macbook with 1GB ** RAM can become extremely slow when Firefox together with Safari ** start to hog 200MB and 300MB respectively and the RAM seems to start ** to swap to hard drive... > You've just answered your own question. Hard drives - epecially notebook > HDs - are *much* slower than RAM. We're talking several orders of > magnitude. ** Not only that... when Leopard starts to swap RAM with hard drive ** space, then I can't even quit Safari or Firefox.... it will keep on ** being "Application Not Responding" for 20 minutes until I do a force ** quit... ** hm... hope that will be fixed.... > *That's* excessive. You can hope that it "will be fixed" but it's going > to take some effort on your part to diagnose and correct because it's > not a normal (mis)behavior of Leopard, Safari or FireFox. Whatever's > going wrong that's causing lags that long is about your machine, not > inherent in the software you're using. > In article > > You may not know about it -- you make rather condescending implications. > > Look at your own paragraphs: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > starts with 'comp' and ends with 'advocacy.' The last chunk of the group > name should really be 'argue.without.caring.about.facts.' Go ahead, when people ask a question, tell them "You just answered your own question", or "Your comment is excessive" and see if people even need any further inference to feel your derogation. > Nothing useful ever happens on any usenet group that > starts with 'comp' and ends with 'advocacy.' The last chunk of the group > name should really be 'argue.without.caring.about.facts.' There are people who said "yeah, 2GB seems like better for Leopard", or "I see the same memory leak from Firefox". It doesn't need to be "argue without caring". If it is "without caring", we know who it is. In article <fdd820d5-2a4e-49b3-8ab6-84c5a433ca1a@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, > > In article > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > your own question", or "Your comment is excessive" and see if people > even need any further inference to feel your derogation. So I'm guessing you didn't take my advice to look again at the post you misread the first time. In fact, since you seem to be oblivious to some clarifications I offered in the prior post, I'm thinking you never even saw that advice. I never said or implied anything like "Your comment is excessive." Yet you presented it up above as if it's a direct quote. Still think a reader doesn't "need any further inference to feel my derogation?" Derogation that wasn't even there? G > In article > <fdd820d5-2a4e-49b3-8ab6-84c5a433c...@i29g2000prf.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > reader doesn't "need any further inference to feel my derogation?" > Derogation that wasn't even there? So if it is not "your comment is excessive" or "your hope is excessive", then what does your "That" in "*That's* excessive" refer to? > *That's* excessive. You can hope that it "will be fixed" but it's going So this is your lines: > So I'm guessing {you didn't take my advice} to look again at the post {you > misread} the first time. In fact, since {you seem to be oblivious} to some > clarifications I offered in the prior post, I'm thinking {you never even > saw} that advice. the words between the { }, they must be either friendly or polite. They are your style consistently from the beginning, and according to you, you are not friendly but you are just polite. I don't know how polite you are. And maybe you will never know, in Tao Te Ching, politeness is described as the lowest form of virtue. It is merely a packaging to conceal something that can be otherwise. Both of you are childlike! Take your pissing match somewhere else! > Both of you are childlike! > > Take your pissing match somewhere else! Why don't you just killfile the thread? That, I believe, is the adult thing to do. ;-) Signature<http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/musings.cgi> Muckraking T-shirts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart > Why don't you just killfile the thread? That, I believe, is the adult > thing to do. ;-) I'm curious: When you kill threads, do you se temporary filters that time out (self destruct) after a certain period of time? What general strategy do you use? SignatureNote: Please send all responses to the relevant news group. If you must contact me through e-mail, let me know when you send email to this address so that your email doesn't get eaten by my SPAM filter. JR > I'm curious: When you kill threads, do you se temporary filters that > time out (self destruct) after a certain period of time? What general > strategy do you use? Users of MacSOUP, like me, just use the Auto-Kill Thread or Auto-Kill Subthread commands. Signature<http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/musings.cgi> Muckraking T-shirts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart > > I'm curious: When you kill threads, do you se temporary filters that > > time out (self destruct) after a certain period of time? What general > > strategy do you use? > > Users of MacSOUP, like me, just use the Auto-Kill Thread or Auto-Kill > Subthread commands. MT-NW has a similar "KIll This Subject" command. But what I guess I'm asking is"What does yours do?". : ) SignatureNote: Please send all responses to the relevant news group. If you must contact me through e-mail, let me know when you send email to this address so that your email doesn't get eaten by my SPAM filter. JR In article <jollyroger-FA5691.12325726012008@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>, > > Why don't you just killfile the thread? That, I believe, is the adult > > thing to do. ;-) > > I'm curious: When you kill threads, do you se temporary filters that > time out (self destruct) after a certain period of time? What general > strategy do you use? When I kill-file (Thoth) the filter expires 60 days after it was last used. I can change that to XX days after created or used. Permanent filters would start to seriously impact responsiveness if they didn't expire. SignatureHelp improve usenet. Kill-file Google Groups. http://improve-usenet.org/ > In article > <jollyroger-FA5691.12325726012008@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>, [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Permanent filters would start to seriously impact responsiveness if > they didn't expire. Thanks for sharing. Do you normally leave it set to 60 days then? MT-NW has a "Kill this Subject" menu command that creates a subject filter that defaults to permanent. Enabling expiration is as simple a checking a box in that same window, though, so that doesn't bother me much. SignatureNote: Please send all responses to the relevant news group. If you must contact me through e-mail, let me know when you send email to this address so that your email doesn't get eaten by my SPAM filter. JR In article <jollyroger-ABD5BF.13340626012008@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>, > > In article > > <jollyroger-FA5691.12325726012008@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>, [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thanks for sharing. Do you normally leave it set to 60 days then? That's the default, and I haven't found any reason to change it. SignatureHelp improve usenet. Kill-file Google Groups. http://improve-usenet.org/ > In article > <jollyroger-ABD5BF.13340626012008@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>, > > > Thanks for sharing. Do you normally leave it set to 60 days then? > > That's the default, and I haven't found any reason to change it. Cool. Thanks again. SignatureNote: Please send all responses to the relevant news group. If you must contact me through e-mail, let me know when you send email to this address so that your email doesn't get eaten by my SPAM filter. JR > In article > <jollyroger-ABD5BF.13340626012008@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>, [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > That's the default, and I haven't found any reason to change it. I've used a 'permanent' filter for years (predating my use of OS X) that automatically deletes and message cross-posted to more than 3 newsgroups. It removes a huge amount of worthless articles, and I see no reason to worry about the 0.5% of such articles that me interesting. Any newsreader that can't do that is fundamentally broken, imo. SignatureRandy Howard (2reply remove FOOBAR) "The power of accurate observation is called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw > I've used a 'permanent' filter for years (predating my use of OS X) > that automatically deletes and message cross-posted to more than 3 > newsgroups. It removes a huge amount of worthless articles, and I see > no reason to worry about the 0.5% of such articles that me interesting. > Any newsreader that can't do that is fundamentally broken, imo. I have essentially the same filter set. Because it never goes 60 days without being used, it never expires. SignatureHelp improve usenet. Kill-file Google Groups. http://improve-usenet.org/ In article <jollyroger-ABD5BF.13340626012008@earthlink.vsrv-sjc.supernews.net>, > > When I kill-file (Thoth) the filter expires 60 days after it was last > > used. I can change that to XX days after created or used. [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > checking a box in that same window, though, so that doesn't bother me > much. If you usually set your filters to expire, you can save time by making that the default. Go to MT-NW Preferences - Filtering - Defaults and set it to 'expire 60 days after last use' or whatever you want. You can also change the default score, highlight, etc. In article <wayne.morris-3FD341.19001526012008@shawnews.wp.shawcable.net>, > If you usually set your filters to expire, you can save time by making > that the default. Go to MT-NW Preferences - Filtering - Defaults and > set it to 'expire 60 days after last use' or whatever you want. You can > also change the default score, highlight, etc. That's good to know, thanks. SignatureNote: Please send all responses to the relevant news group. If you must contact me through e-mail, let me know when you send email to this address so that your email doesn't get eaten by my SPAM filter. JR > > Why don't you just killfile the thread? That, I believe, is the adult > > thing to do. ;-) > > I'm curious: When you kill threads, do you se temporary filters that > time out (self destruct) after a certain period of time? What general > strategy do you use? In gnus, I add the message reference as high up in the thread as I can get (or as high up in it as I want to kill) to my score file. It's a mixed blessing - if some idiot keeps the thread going but hoses the references header, I have to add it again. But I'd rather to that than use the more blunt instrument of killfiling the Subject (which has other similar problems and folks are more likely ot hose a subject line). These things don't time out or expire, though. For references, though, the killing runs very quickly, so it's no big deal. There are ways to kill on other parts of any header and some of them slow the thing down a lot more. Every once in a long while, I wipe out my group-level killfile and start from scratch. SignaturePlain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed. No HTML in E-Mail! -- http://www.expita.com/nomime.html Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow? http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting Somebody suggested turning the RAM cache in Firefox. Now that's caring sharing without the finger-pointing or being self-righteous. FYI, I upgraded my Macbook to 2GB now. The DRAM costs about $59. And I can sell my original 1GB too. The important thing is, after the upgrade, the Acitivities Monitor shows only 1.3GB is Free. After using it for an hour, it is down to 1.03GB free. So now, I can afford to let Firefox and Safari to run up to 500MB each and the machine should still will not swap to hard disk. (right now they use 230MB total). Thanks for all the people who provided thoughtful suggestions like about better to use 2GB at least and for turning off RAM cache. These are what I call caring people. In article <c22c7661-4ba7-4059-89e3-4aabeddb8b0a@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, > After using it for an hour, it is down to 1.03GB free. Free RAM is wasted RAM. The ideal is to be running with a couple of hundred K free. I have oodles free right now because I just rebooted, but once I launch up all the apps I normally use, I will be running along nicely with 140K free or something. Just where I like to be. SignatureBart: This is the worst day of my life. Homer: This is the worst day of your life SO FAR. > In article > <c22c7661-4ba7-4059-89e3-4aabeddb8...@m34g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > up all the apps I normally use, I will be running along nicely with 140K > free or something. Just where I like to be. kind of reminds me of Seinfeld... in which George said, "His GPA: a solid 2.0. Not showing off. Not falling behind." > Somebody suggested turning the RAM cache in Firefox. Now that's > caring sharing without the finger-pointing or being self-righteous. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > about better to use 2GB at least and for turning off RAM cache. These > are what I call caring people. You know whats funny? I used to always be a firm supporter of reinstalling the OS after hardware installs (if possible) video card, usb card, ram, etc... But sometimes you just can't I guess. But I had my MacBook running with 1 GB of ram and then upgraded (OWC) to 3 GB of ram. After installing ram and not re-installing OS it did choke for a little while (honestly) but after a while like 5 days later (because I only booted like 3 times that day and 1 time each other day) it finally started acting resposive though. I chocked it up to the scratch (virtual memory) not being initialized right. But in the long run I just had to reinstall the OS... It's up to ... Laters... SignatureAdobe - Preventing the case-sensitive revolution everyday In article <6fabdb19-383f-4609-96ed-2159d28f45e3@d4g2000prg.googlegroups.com>, > Maybe this is better address in the mac apps newsgroup: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > hm... hope that will be fixed.... Since your Mac is new, why don't you contact Apple to discuss your problem? Apple does give free tech support to new Mac users, so why not use it? > Since your Mac is new, why don't you contact Apple to discuss your > problem? Apple does give free tech support to new Mac users, so why not > use it? that can be done... although having work in the software industry myself, i know how slow that gets to the developers... and if it is important, it is probably on their to-do list... it is really easy to notice it... just have Safari running for a few days and it will happen. |
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