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Mac Forum / Applications / Mac Applications / May 2007Those Damned Black Diamond Question Marks
Why is is that some fonts in many applications (Safari usually) substitute Question Marks in Black Diamonds for punctuation marks such as apostrophes? Seemed to begin with installation of Tiger and seems to be getting worse.  SignatureNelson -- Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com > Why is is that some fonts in many applications (Safari usually) > substitute Question Marks in Black Diamonds for punctuation marks such > as apostrophes? Seemed to begin with installation of Tiger and seems > to be getting worse. In Safari, it's because the page is delivering a different text encoding than Safari is expecting. > > Why is is that some fonts in many applications (Safari usually) > > substitute Question Marks in Black Diamonds for punctuation marks such [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > In Safari, it's because the page is delivering a different text > encoding than Safari is expecting. I'd have to note that *your message* is itself arriving in a different coding (Unicode UCF-8) than my newsreader MT-NewsWatcher is expecting -- it shows up in a very tiny, faint font until I use a menu command to Decode it as Western Mac OS Roman. In some situations the presence of one message like this causes the whole Newsgroup Message List to display in the same way. This is NOT a complaint against you as sender; I realize that times change. Nonetheless, the conflict between changes that fix or improve capabilities changes that break things is a real one, in the computer world especially. > > > Why is is that some fonts in many applications (Safari usually) > > > substitute Question Marks in Black Diamonds for punctuation marks such [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > capabilities changes that break things is a real one, in the computer > world especially. Thoth doesn't support Unicode. > > > Why is is that some fonts in many applications (Safari usually) > > > substitute Question Marks in Black Diamonds for punctuation marks such [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > capabilities changes that break things is a real one, in the computer > world especially. Disregard that last post... > I'd have to note that *your message* is itself arriving in a different > coding (Unicode UCF-8) than my newsreader MT-NewsWatcher is expecting -- > it shows up in a very tiny, faint font until I use a menu command to > Decode it as Western Mac OS Roman. In some situations the presence of > one message like this causes the whole Newsgroup Message List to display > in the same way. Hah! An ancient MT-NewsWatcher mystery explained. Thanks! > I'd have to note that *your message* is itself arriving in a different > coding (Unicode UCF-8) than my newsreader MT-NewsWatcher is expecting From his headers: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Signature<http://designsbymike.biz/macconsultshop.shtml> Mac-themed T-shirts <http://designsbymike.biz/musings.shtml> Humorous/muckraking T-shirts <http://designsbymike.biz/prius.shtml> Prius shirts & bumper stickers <http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gift >> I'd have to note that *your message* is itself arriving in a different >> coding (Unicode UCF-8) than my newsreader MT-NewsWatcher is expecting > > From his headers: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Shouldn't newsreaders encode articles by default in the lowest-denominator charset that doesn't lose information, usually something like US-ASCII? Cheers, Chris > >> I'd have to note that *your message* is itself arriving in a different > >> coding (Unicode UCF-8) than my newsreader MT-NewsWatcher is expecting [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > lowest-denominator charset that doesn't lose information, usually > something like US-ASCII? US-ASCII and UTF-8 are the same for codepoints under 128 anyway, as are many encodings. SignatureJerry Kindall, Seattle, WA <http://www.jerrykindall.com/> Send only plain text messages under 32K to the Reply-To address. This mailbox is filtered aggressively to thwart spam and viruses. >>>> I'd have to note that *your message* is itself arriving in a different >>>> coding (Unicode UCF-8) than my newsreader MT-NewsWatcher is expecting [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > US-ASCII and UTF-8 are the same for codepoints under 128 anyway, as are > many encodings. Well OK, perhaps I should have phrased the question: "Shouldn't newsreaders set the charset in the content-type to [...] US-ASCII". Cheers, Chris > > I'd have to note that *your message* is itself arriving in a different > > coding (Unicode UCF-8) than my newsreader MT-NewsWatcher is expecting > > From his headers: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 My typo: the arrival coding as shown in MTW's "Edit>>Decode as" menu is indeed listed as "Unicode UTF-8". > > > Why is is that some fonts in many applications (Safari usually) > > > substitute Question Marks in Black Diamonds for punctuation marks such [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > capabilities changes that break things is a real one, in the computer > world especially. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Signature<http://designsbymike.biz/macconsultshop.shtml> Mac-themed T-shirts <http://designsbymike.biz/musings.shtml> Humorous/muckraking T-shirts <http://designsbymike.biz/prius.shtml> Prius shirts & bumper stickers <http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gift > > This is NOT a complaint against you as sender; I realize that times > > change. Nonetheless, the conflict between changes that fix or improve > > capabilities changes that break things is a real one, in the computer > > world especially. > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Oh boy, I didn't mean to send this one out, and I thought I'd deleted it from MacSOUP's queue. Please forgive me, everyone, for my double posting. Signature<http://designsbymike.biz/macconsultshop.shtml> Mac-themed T-shirts <http://designsbymike.biz/musings.shtml> Humorous/muckraking T-shirts <http://designsbymike.biz/prius.shtml> Prius shirts & bumper stickers <http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gift > > > This is NOT a complaint against you as sender; I realize that times > > > change. Nonetheless, the conflict between changes that fix or improve [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > from MacSOUP's queue. Please forgive me, everyone, for my double > posting. MacSOUP can send a cancel message for you. SignatureMvh./Regards, Niels Jørgen Kruse, Vanløse, Denmark >>>> This is NOT a complaint against you as sender; I realize that times >>>> change. Nonetheless, the conflict between changes that fix or improve [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > MacSOUP can send a cancel message for you. But will any NNTP servers honour it? In article <4e%4i.10329$13.3932@nnrp.ca.mci.com!nnrp1.uunet.ca>, Clever Monkey <spamtrap@clevermonkey.org.INVALID> wrote: > Niels Jørgen Kruse wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > > But will any NNTP servers honour it? Doubtful. > In article <4e%4i.10329$13.3932@nnrp.ca.mci.com!nnrp1.uunet.ca>, Clever > Monkey <spamtrap@clevermonkey.org.INVALID> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Doubtful. The post you responded to didn't show up here. SignatureMvh./Regards, Niels Jørgen Kruse, Vanløse, Denmark > > In article <4e%4i.10329$13.3932@nnrp.ca.mci.com!nnrp1.uunet.ca>, Clever > > Monkey <spamtrap@clevermonkey.org.INVALID> wrote: [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > The post you responded to didn't show up here. Propagation and honoring cancel messages are two different issues. > Propagation and honoring cancel messages are two different issues. Gee, if I _had_ issued a cancel command and it _had_ had the desired effect, we would have missed out on the ensuing discussion. Now, let me see, I'm supposed to somehow take offense at all this and say some non-existent gang is out to get me, aren't I? Signature<http://designsbymike.biz/macconsultshop.shtml> Mac-themed T-shirts <http://designsbymike.biz/musings.shtml> Humorous/muckraking T-shirts <http://designsbymike.biz/prius.shtml> Prius shirts & bumper stickers <http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gift > > Propagation and honoring cancel messages are two different issues. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Now, let me see, I'm supposed to somehow take offense at all this and > say some non-existent gang is out to get me, aren't I? Nah. Try something *original*. > > Now, let me see, I'm supposed to somehow take offense at all this and > > say some non-existent gang is out to get me, aren't I? > > Nah. Try something *original*. Okay. I guess that means I should also skip my theory on the brontosaurus. Signature<http://designsbymike.biz/macconsultshop.shtml> Mac-themed T-shirts <http://designsbymike.biz/musings.shtml> Humorous/muckraking T-shirts <http://designsbymike.biz/prius.shtml> Prius shirts & bumper stickers <http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gift >> Propagation and honoring cancel messages are two different issues. > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Now, let me see, I'm supposed to somehow take offense at all this and > say some non-existent gang is out to get me, aren't I? If you like. Might be less fun that you expect. > Might be less fun that you expect. Oh, that's definitely not possible. Signature<http://designsbymike.biz/macconsultshop.shtml> Mac-themed T-shirts <http://designsbymike.biz/musings.shtml> Humorous/muckraking T-shirts <http://designsbymike.biz/prius.shtml> Prius shirts & bumper stickers <http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gift > I'd have to note that *your message* is itself arriving in a different > coding (Unicode UCF-8) than my newsreader MT-NewsWatcher is expecting -- > it shows up in a very tiny, faint font until I use a menu command to > Decode it as Western Mac OS Roman. In some situations the presence of > one message like this causes the whole Newsgroup Message List to display > in the same way. Upgrade MT-NW to version 3.5.* and that particular problem should go away. It used to be a major annoyance of mine concerning MT-NW. Now it's gone. leo Signature<http://web0.greatbasin.net/~leo/> > > I'd have to note that *your message* is itself arriving in a different > > coding (Unicode UCF-8) than my newsreader MT-NewsWatcher is expecting -- [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > away. It used to be a major annoyance of mine concerning MT-NW. Now it's > gone. Thank you. I'm still on 3.4 -- and had somewhere acquired the erroneous notion that it was to be the _last_ version ever. > Why is is that some fonts in many applications (Safari usually) > substitute Question Marks in Black Diamonds for punctuation marks such > as apostrophes? Seemed to begin with installation of Tiger and seems > to be getting worse. I haven't seen this in any application except Terminal. I believe it indicates that the encoding specified for the content doesn't contain the characters that it's trying to display. > Why is is that some fonts in many applications (Safari usually) > substitute Question Marks in Black Diamonds for punctuation marks such > as apostrophes? Seemed to begin with installation of Tiger and seems > to be getting worse. The web page is trying to render a character that Safari's current encoding doesn't support (or isn't installed on your system.) This could be caused by several things: 1: The web page's header is indicating an incorrect encoding for the characters it contains. 2: The web page has no language indication and Safari is guessing wrong. 3: The page is using a language whose fonts are not installed in Mac OS. For problems 1 and 2, go to "View -> Text Encoding" from the menubar and pick the correct encoding. If you find one that works, you may want to inform the webmaster to fix their page. For problem 3, you'll have to get the right font and install it. Note also that problem 3 may accompany problems 1 and 2. -- David |
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