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Mac Forum / General / Hardware / July 2009



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Cleaning the Mighty Mouse

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Suzie-Q - 11 Jul 2009 01:36 GMT
I followed the instructions in this video and
my Mighty Mouse (which I still hate) is working
fine now:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jet7488UoSE

I suspect I'll have to clean it this way on a
regular basis.
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Jolly Roger - 11 Jul 2009 03:14 GMT
> I followed the instructions in this video and
> my Mighty Mouse (which I still hate) is working
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I suspect I'll have to clean it this way on a
> regular basis.

I've had a Mighty Mouse since they were first introduced. Most of the
time (occasionally - maybe once a month or two) I have to clean it by
holing the mouse upside down and rubbing the scroll ball vigorously
against a clean, lint-free cloth. I've only had one single situation
where that wasn't enough, and that's the only time I've ever had to take
mine apart.

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Fred Bambrough - 11 Jul 2009 14:30 GMT
> > I followed the instructions in this video and my Mighty Mouse (which I
> > still hate) is working fine now:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> clean, lint-free cloth. I've only had one single situation where that
> wasn't enough, and that's the only time I've ever had to take mine apart.

I'm always surprised by these MM posts. I too have had mine since
introduction. I don't recall ever cleaning the ball specifically and it's
never given grief. That's despite having a skin problem.

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Suzie-Q - 12 Jul 2009 04:33 GMT
> > > I followed the instructions in this video and my Mighty Mouse (which I
> > > still hate) is working fine now:
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> introduction. I don't recall ever cleaning the ball specifically and it's
> never given grief. That's despite having a skin problem.

Maybe you're exceptionally clean!

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thepixelfreak - 16 Jul 2009 19:45 GMT
>> I've had a Mighty Mouse since they were first introduced. Most of the time
>> (occasionally - maybe once a month or two) I have to clean it by holing
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> introduction. I don't recall ever cleaning the ball specifically and it's
> never given grief. That's despite having a skin problem.

I too am surprised about these posts. What is surprising is that Apple
didn't fix the flaw to begin with. I've been using mice since 1985.
I've been a full time computer professional for 20 years and have NEVER
seen a mouse that required so much TLC to keep operational. I've had 4
of the MM variants. One Wireless variety that just quit working. Two
wired varieties one that just gave up the left button entirely and the
other just plain failed. The last one was a wired variety that I had
given the upside down rub against a clean cloth over and over. The
current Logitech I own has outlasted the 4 MM.

To be fair, the older mice with rollerball tracking mechanisms did get
dirty, but the manufacturers had the SENSE to make them SERVICEABLE.

So those that say 'mine works fine and never needs cleaning' you might
try using your gear 10+ hours M-F and the odd hour or two on the
weekends and see how they hold up..

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Howard Brazee - 16 Jul 2009 20:50 GMT
>I too am surprised about these posts. What is surprising is that Apple
>didn't fix the flaw to begin with. I've been using mice since 1985.
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>To be fair, the older mice with rollerball tracking mechanisms did get
>dirty, but the manufacturers had the SENSE to make them SERVICEABLE.

Single dimension rollers are easier to design big enough so that dirt
isn't such a problem.   Could the MM be designed with a comfortable
bigger ball.  Big enough to avoid the dirt problems?   I expect so,
but don't know.

But I do know that Apple could make a better left-right mouse button
sensing mechanism.

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thepixelfreak - 16 Jul 2009 23:43 GMT
>> I too am surprised about these posts. What is surprising is that Apple
>> didn't fix the flaw to begin with. I've been using mice since 1985.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> bigger ball.  Big enough to avoid the dirt problems?   I expect so,
> but don't know.

Just to be clear..

I'm not talking about the scroll ball. Electro-mechanical mice had a
ball on the underside that was a two dimensional tracker. Most could be
cleaned by turning a bezel that allowed the ball to be released and the
rollers that the ball contacted to be cleaned.

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thepixelfreak

Jolly Roger - 17 Jul 2009 00:50 GMT
> So those that say 'mine works fine and never needs cleaning' you might
> try using your gear 10+ hours M-F and the odd hour or two on the
> weekends and see how they hold up..

Uh I happen to use mine for 10+ hours Sunday through Saturday every
week. And it's only needed to be taken apart exactly once.

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thepixelfreak - 17 Jul 2009 22:01 GMT
>> So those that say 'mine works fine and never needs cleaning' you might
>> try using your gear 10+ hours M-F and the odd hour or two on the
>> weekends and see how they hold up..
>
> Uh I happen to use mine for 10+ hours Sunday through Saturday every
> week. And it's only needed to be taken apart exactly once.

Good for you. There have been enough complaints on this an other
newsgroups to suggest your experience is somewhat outside the standard
deviation. Consider buying yourself a lottery ticket.

Don't worry. I love everything Apple currently makes except the MM (and
maybe Apple TV). I will still call a spade a spade. The MM is flawed..
Period.

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Jolly Roger - 17 Jul 2009 23:55 GMT
> >> So those that say 'mine works fine and never needs cleaning' you might
> >> try using your gear 10+ hours M-F and the odd hour or two on the
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> newsgroups to suggest your experience is somewhat outside the standard
> deviation. Consider buying yourself a lottery ticket.

I've heard plenty of others echo my experience with it here and
elsewhere. A vocal minority doesn't equate to a wide-spread issue.

> Don't worry. I love everything Apple currently makes except the MM (and
> maybe Apple TV). I will still call a spade a spade. The MM is flawed..
> Period.

I do recognize that the proximity sensor used for right clicks sometimes
gets things wrong. And I also recognize that using a physical scroll
ball means that occasionally the rollers inside the scroll ball housing
need to be cleared of debris. But these two problems don't result in the
mouse being complete crap either. It's a very useful mouse for most
situations (fast-paced FPS gaming being an exception), and works just
fine most of the time for most of the people I know.

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Florian Zschocke - 18 Jul 2009 08:37 GMT
thepixelfreak <not@dot.com> schrieb:


> To be fair, the older mice with rollerball tracking mechanisms did get
> dirty, but the manufacturers had the SENSE to make them SERVICEABLE.
>                                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^

You found the word that died in Cupertino a long time ago.
It did not fade away, they killed it active.
The word REPLACE took its space.
I guess, their books will have no more screws in near future.
They will sell it as "Wow, screw-less design." and the audience will the
say "Yeah great!"

Florian
Jolly Roger - 11 Jul 2009 03:16 GMT
> I followed the instructions in this video and
> my Mighty Mouse (which I still hate) is working
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I suspect I'll have to clean it this way on a
> regular basis.

When I took mine apart, I used an Xacto blade rather than a piece of
plastic, and I didn't crack anything in doing so, because I was very
careful.

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Jolly Roger - 11 Jul 2009 03:21 GMT
> I followed the instructions in this video and
> my Mighty Mouse (which I still hate) is working
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I suspect I'll have to clean it this way on a
> regular basis.

I notice in the video the guy says he used rubbing alcohol to clean the
parts. I advise you not to use alcohol, since it can change the surface
properties of rubber, causing some types of rubber to become sticky to
the touch indefinitely, which will actually make the problem of dust
even worse. A damp lint, free cloth is always best!

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Bruce in alaska - 11 Jul 2009 19:32 GMT
> I followed the instructions in this video and
> my Mighty Mouse (which I still hate) is working
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I suspect I'll have to clean it this way on a
> regular basis.

It works for the BlueTooth Mighty Mouse as well.... Way Cool...
cause mine has been funky for a couple of years, and now it
is like New.....

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Florian Zschocke - 12 Jul 2009 09:02 GMT
Suzie-Q <sme617x@embarqmail.com> schrieb:

> I followed the instructions in this video and
> my Mighty Mouse (which I still hate) is working
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I suspect I'll have to clean it this way on a
> regular basis.

There is a much smarter way to do that.
<http://www.brendanfenn.com/cleanmouse.html>

In addition to that, i found that it is also easy to clean it with
isopropyl flooding. For that you take sufficient isoprop-alcohol so
that the mouse ball is really swimming. Than turn it head over and
move the wheel over a clean tissue until it is nearly dry. After that
you have to leave the mouse for a few hours or over night to dry
complete.

Florian
Jolly Roger - 13 Jul 2009 02:31 GMT
In article
<89C7BF50-957E-495E-8635-D05F09922D75%edv@zschocke-berlin.de>,

> Suzie-Q <sme617x@embarqmail.com> schrieb:
>  
[quoted text clipped - 15 lines]
> you have to leave the mouse for a few hours or over night to dry
> complete.

Using alcohol is not advisable, IMO, for reasons I have already stated
in this thread.

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Florian Zschocke - 13 Jul 2009 08:28 GMT
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> schrieb:


> Using alcohol is not advisable, IMO, for reasons I have already stated
> in this thread.

Do don't know what you are talking about.
I have studied chemistry. The only thing in alcohol that could harm any organic
polymer is the Methylethylketon or Toluol in white spirits. In it is used only
in Ethanol to denature it so that you won't drink it.
There is nothing of it in isoproply-alcohol. So isoproply-alcohol is absolute
save. Also not technical, but drinkable alcohol is save, but expensive because
of the taxes.

Cheers Florian
Jolly Roger - 13 Jul 2009 13:09 GMT
In article
<B01EBC2D-65C9-46DE-9E62-39A547F5C1C6%edv@zschocke-berlin.de>,

> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> schrieb:
>  
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Cheers Florian

While I respect whatever position you may hold in the field of
chemistry, I have actually experienced mouse scroll wheels becoming
sticky or tacky after cleaning them with alcohol. This is happened with
multiple mouses in my household.

I'm certainly no chemist, but I know what I experienced, and I advise
people not to do this as a result. Perhaps you can think of some other
reason this may have happened?

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Mike Rosenberg - 13 Jul 2009 13:31 GMT
> This is happened with multiple mouses in my household.

"Mouses"?

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Jolly Roger - 13 Jul 2009 17:40 GMT
> > This is happened with multiple mouses in my household.
>
> "Mouses"?

It's an acceptable plural form.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse_(computing)>

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Mike Rosenberg - 13 Jul 2009 21:33 GMT
> > "Mouses"?
>
> It's an acceptable plural form.
>
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mouse_(computing)>

So is "mice".

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Dave Balderstone - 13 Jul 2009 22:05 GMT
> > > "Mouses"?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> So is "mice".

I prefer "meeses". As in "I hate meeses to pieces!"

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Mike Rosenberg - 13 Jul 2009 22:20 GMT
> > > > "Mouses"?
> > >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> I prefer "meeses". As in "I hate meeses to pieces!"

Isn't that "meeces"?

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Fred Moore - 14 Jul 2009 15:33 GMT
> > I prefer "meeses". As in "I hate meeses to pieces!"
>
> Isn't that "meeces"?

Yes, you're correct. Dave, being from Canada, should know that.
'Meeses', when it doesn't refer to more than one Attorney General under
Ronald The RayGun (shudder), means more than one of those very large
brown things with long legs and large palmate antlers which like to
munch grass in bogs. I just saw one last weekend north of Parry Sound.

As to why Dave hates meeses, who can say? Perhaps he hunts with Sarah
Palin.

;)
Jolly Roger - 14 Jul 2009 04:15 GMT
> > > "Mouses"?
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>
> So is "mice".

So is "mouses".  : )

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Howard Brazee - 14 Jul 2009 12:53 GMT
>> > > "Mouses"?
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>So is "mouses".  : )

Kind of like antennas for as the plural of a TV antenna.   A tech
mouse and tech antenna isn't the same a biological.

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Mike Rosenberg - 14 Jul 2009 13:09 GMT
> Kind of like antennas for as the plural of a TV antenna.   A tech
> mouse and tech antenna isn't the same a biological.

Computer mice were named because of their resemblance to the animals.
Some dummies came along and, for no real reason, started saying mouses
instead. Other dummies went along with it and it caught on to the point
where some people consider it acceptable. I understand that's how
language evolves, but I prefer to go with the plural form that wasn't
started by dummies. To each his own.

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Howard Brazee - 14 Jul 2009 15:41 GMT
>> Kind of like antennas for as the plural of a TV antenna.   A tech
>> mouse and tech antenna isn't the same a biological.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>language evolves, but I prefer to go with the plural form that wasn't
>started by dummies. To each his own.

Eventually we lose.   What percentage of time do we hear "beg the
question" used correctly?     How often do you hear someone use "TV
antennae"?   How many data processors use "datum", or media people use
"medium"?   Or how many single people showing off their university
education have bumper stickers saying "University of XXX alumni"?

I do like to use the optional "subschemata" plural of subschema, just
for the fun of it.

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"In no part of the constitution is more wisdom to be found,
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Mike Rosenberg - 14 Jul 2009 18:21 GMT
> >Computer mice were named because of their resemblance to the animals.
> >Some dummies came along and, for no real reason, started saying mouses
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> Eventually we lose.

We do? At some point someone is going to somehow prevent me from saying
"mice"?

>  What percentage of time do we hear "beg the
> question" used correctly?     How often do you hear someone use "TV
> antennae"?   How many data processors use "datum", or media people use
> "medium"?

I'm talking about what words *I* use. I also use commas and aposthrophes
correctly, and nothing anyone else does is going to change that.

> Or how many single people showing off their university
> education have bumper stickers saying "University of XXX alumni"?

One could argue that such bumper stickers and license plate frames are
proclaiming that you're one of the group of alumni of that institution.
And, of course, for proper usage of the singular form there would have
to be two of each.

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Jolly Roger - 15 Jul 2009 00:24 GMT
> > Kind of like antennas for as the plural of a TV antenna.   A tech
> > mouse and tech antenna isn't the same a biological.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> language evolves, but I prefer to go with the plural form that wasn't
> started by dummies. To each his own.

I suppose you may have a point. I haven't bothered to verify that your
accounting of the history of the word is factual, because I just don't
care all that much. But it has a ring of truth to it, so I'll do you a
solid and try to use the word "mice" at least 50% of the time from now
on.  : D

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Jolly Roger - 13 Jul 2009 13:17 GMT
In article
<B01EBC2D-65C9-46DE-9E62-39A547F5C1C6%edv@zschocke-berlin.de>,

> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> schrieb:
>  
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> Cheers Florian

Hmmm... From the United States Department of Labor, Occupational Safety
& Health Administration web site:

"4. Special precautions: Isopropyl alcohol will attack some forms of
plastic, rubber, and coatings."

...and...

"The resistance of various materials to permeation by isopropyl alcohol
is shown below:

Material            Breakthrough time (hr)

Butyl Rubber        >8
Nitrile Rubber      >8
Viton                    >8
4H (PE/EVAL)        >8
Neoprene            >4
Teflon                   >4
Polyvinyl Chloride  Caution 1 to 4
Saranex                  Caution 1 to 4
Natural Rubber      <1(*)
Polyethylene        <1(*)
Polyvinyl Alcohol   <1(*)

(*) Not recommended, degradation may occur"

Reference: <http://preview.tinyurl.com/n69uuf>

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Florian Zschocke - 13 Jul 2009 18:31 GMT
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> schrieb:


> Hmmm... From the United States Department of Labor, Occupational Safety
> & Health Administration web site:
[quoted text clipped - 24 lines]
>
> Reference: <http://preview.tinyurl.com/n69uuf>

I stay to what I say. A C-OH (Hydroxl-Group) i never strong enough to
attack a polymer. It may permeate sure, but it will dry without any
chemical reaction. So dose Ethanol. If you see such reaction, you have to
look for the substitutes. And if I say here it is save to bath your Mighty
Mouse in isoprop it is save. I have done it many, many times and I fear I
will have to continue doing so. Of course you can also cut your mouse in
pieces and clean it with what ever you think is save.

Florian
You - 13 Jul 2009 20:30 GMT
In article
<D26E324E-4F6D-4621-A3FA-409F0890DB91%edv@zschocke-berlin.de>,

> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> schrieb:
>  
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> Florian    

Somebody needs to go back to Organic Chemistry 101 and relearn the
basics of Organic Chemical Interaction.....
Florian Zschocke - 14 Jul 2009 09:42 GMT
You <you@shadow.orgs> schrieb:


> Somebody needs to go back to Organic Chemistry 101 and relearn the
> basics of Organic Chemical Interaction.....

basics of organic chemical reactions - dumb nut.

Florian
greg - 14 Jul 2009 01:37 GMT
> A C-OH (Hydroxl-Group) i never strong enough to
> attack a polymer. It may permeate sure, but it will dry without any
> chemical reaction.

There might not be a chemical reaction, but that doesn't
mean it can't *dissolve* the material.

Sure it'll dry, but the mouse may not be the same shape
afterwards...

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Greg

Florian Zschocke - 14 Jul 2009 08:36 GMT
greg <greg@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> schrieb:


> There might not be a chemical reaction, but that doesn't
> mean it can't *dissolve* the material.

Explain me how?
Explain it for PET, PVC, what ever you want.
Hydrolysis?
Nucleophilic substitution?
These reactions may be there, but the speed at rt is so slow that you
would have to wait for years to see a result.
Look here:
<http://www.edv-consulting-berlin.de/download/Isoprop.jpg>
Isopropyl-alcohol sold in a plastic bottle.

> Sure it'll dry, but the mouse may not be the same shape
> afterwards...

Mine is still working fine.

Florian
greg - 14 Jul 2009 10:10 GMT
> greg <greg@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> schrieb:
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Hydrolysis?
> Nucleophilic substitution?

No, by dissolving. You know, like what happens when you put
sugar in water. No *chemical* reaction occurs, but the sugar
is definitely affected by the water.

Even if the alcohol doesn't fully dissolve the substance,
it could soften it or make it sticky.

The point is that a chemical reaction isn't necessarily
required in order for damage to occur.

> Look here:
> <http://www.edv-consulting-berlin.de/download/Isoprop.jpg>
> Isopropyl-alcohol sold in a plastic bottle.

All that proves is that there is at least one plastic that
is not damaged by isopropyl alcohol. It doesn't prove that
*no* plastic exists that isopropyl alcohol can damage.

I'm willing to believe that *most* plastics are unaffected
by it, but I think it would be unwise to assume that it
can't possibly damage any kind of plastic or synthetic
rubber.

It may be quite all right for Mighty Mouse balls, I don't
know. But I wouldn't be sure until I'd heard from someone
who's actually tried it.

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Florian Zschocke - 14 Jul 2009 10:27 GMT
greg <greg@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> schrieb:

> It may be quite all right for Mighty Mouse balls, I don't
> know. But I wouldn't be sure until I'd heard from someone
> who's actually tried it.

You did so.

Florian
Florian Zschocke - 14 Jul 2009 11:16 GMT
greg <greg@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> schrieb:

>> greg <greg@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> schrieb:
>>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> sugar in water. No *chemical* reaction occurs, but the sugar
> is definitely affected by the water.

Yeah, because of its polarity and because it is no polymer.
You are talking about solving a crystalline substance in a polar
fluid. In this case you have a kind of ionic form, interacting with
with the H-Bridges of the water.
I case of these polymer carbon we are talking about a-polare
substances and you need a a-polar solver to dissolve. Alcohol is a
very polar substance. In fact we have such a-polar substances in some
kind of technical ETH-OH. They are mostly used to make it undrinkable.
For example, aromatic hydrocarbon are very good a-polar dissolvers.
Now, why do think they are used for making Ethanol undrinkable?

Florian
Walter Bushell - 14 Jul 2009 17:48 GMT
In article
<41D508B8-BD0A-499C-A560-96CBAB158FD2%edv@zschocke-berlin.de>,

> Yeah, because of its polarity and because it is no polymer.
> You are talking about solving a crystalline substance in a polar
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Florian

To collect taxes on alcohol that is drunk. Only a government would think
to poison a poison.
Walter Bushell - 14 Jul 2009 17:45 GMT
> It may be quite all right for Mighty Mouse balls, I don't
> know. But I wouldn't be sure until I'd heard from someone
> who's actually tried it.

Please Mighty Mouse _testicles_ if you please, balls is vulgar.
Jolly Roger - 15 Jul 2009 00:16 GMT
In article
<22B70F16-909B-4524-891C-CAA38C98058E%edv@zschocke-berlin.de>,

> greg <greg@cosc.canterbury.ac.nz> schrieb:
>  
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Florian

Now you're trying to claim that the plastic used in plastic bottles and
PVC and PET is the same as rubber used in mouse scroll balls?

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Jolly Roger - 14 Jul 2009 04:17 GMT
In article
<D26E324E-4F6D-4621-A3FA-409F0890DB91%edv@zschocke-berlin.de>,

> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> schrieb:
>  
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
>
> Florian    

Sorry, but even if I disregard government studies completely, my own
life experience tells me you're full of it.

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Florian Zschocke - 14 Jul 2009 08:43 GMT
Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> schrieb:
   

> Sorry, but even if I disregard government studies completely, my own
> life experience tells me you're full of it.

Yes, sure. Thats because you never really analyzed the reason for what
you did see. Since that time alcohol in your eyes is guilty, but thats
to simple.

Florian

P.S.: I don't drink. Perhaps that is the reason I know some things
better than you.
Jolly Roger - 15 Jul 2009 00:23 GMT
In article
<61FC7A16-C8DD-46F8-8DD3-76F8BA72DD72%edv@zschocke-berlin.de>,

> Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> schrieb:
>    
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> P.S.: I don't drink. Perhaps that is the reason I know some things
> better than you.

All I know are these facts:

1. Before I applied alcohol to the mouse scroll ball, it was not tacky
or sticky. After cleaning it with isopropyl alcohol, the mouse ball was
sticky.

2. Certain government studies (mentioned earlier in this thread) state
that alcohol can have a detrimental affect on rubber.

My actual life experience and the aforementioned studies disagree with
some random internet nobody's opinion. Guess who *I* am more likely to
believe?

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Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me.
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filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting
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JR

Francois - 14 Jul 2009 17:30 GMT
> I followed the instructions in this video and
> my Mighty Mouse (which I still hate) is working
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> I suspect I'll have to clean it this way on a
> regular basis.
The so-called "Mighty" mouse (bluetooth)I got with my Mac Pro I dumped
after one month of struggling to have it make properly right or left
clicks.
Since more than one year I have it replaced by a small Logitech (V-100)
intended for laptops. It has a short USB cord hooked into the Mac
keyboard. The cost was in the order of 15 $.
I have never been annoyed by the cord, it works fine for me, and most of
all without any cleaning (or change of batteries)
 
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