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Mac Forum / General / Hardware / June 2008Mac Pro Graphics: ATI or Nvidia or what?
I'm very curious what the Mac Pro owners think of their GPUs--- especially those of you who also use your Mac Pros for some gaming. I've read some nice things about the Nvidia 8800 GT, which is an alternative Mac Pro configuration. But I've also heard some not-so-nice things and wonder if the firmware update from Apple corrected all the issues. I'm getting the impression that the graphics cards are going out of date pretty fast these days. Many new games seem to spec the max in terms of equipment. My daughter's 2 GHz Intel iMac isn't even a year old yet and already cannot handle a number of new games. Madeleine I've just placed an order for my first MacIntel ... did a lot of research and, especially when considering an iMac, sought out user opinion about the graphic card(s). The consesus is that while the nVidia cards are superior vis-a-vis their specs, the *drivers* are not mature enough at present to make the best use of them. They excel at games and apps using OpenGL, but (currently) lag behind the Radeons in Apple core/pro apps. Many hope/suspect that Apple will be updating the drivers soon, but it's a bit of a gamble. Reading about experience's such as your daughter's was one significant factor in my decision not to go for an iMac. I got the new (Jan 08) Mac Pro: tons of expandability, including two (!) PCIe 2.0 slots. This mean you have room for a second 'pro' GPU. When I read that Apple's nVidia drivers are up to snuff, then I'll likely buy that card and sell of the Radeon ... or maybe keep both! In your situation, you'd likely have to swap them out (I've read nothing concerning PCIe 1.0 cards, but would assume they're not camparable). There is some debate about the ability to upgrade the GPU in a new iMac. It uses a MXM PCIe connector, so it's theoretically possible (though undoubtedly voids your warranty), but would require some technical expertise. Google is your friend. There is lots of info and comparison test results out there. As well, selling off your current Mac to offset the costs of a new one is always a viable option. HTH : I'm very curious what the Mac Pro owners think of their GPUs--- : especially those of you who also use your Mac Pros for some gaming. : I've read some nice things about the Nvidia 8800 GT, which is an : alternative Mac Pro configuration. But I've also heard some not-so-nice : things and wonder if the firmware update from Apple corrected all the : issues. : I'm getting the impression that the graphics cards are going out of date : pretty fast these days. Many new games seem to spec the max in terms of : equipment. My daughter's 2 GHz Intel iMac isn't even a year old yet and : already cannot handle a number of new games. : Madeleine -- Non Illegitimi Carborundum > I've just placed an order for my first MacIntel ... did a lot of research > and, especially when considering an iMac, sought out user opinion about > the graphic card(s). Oh congratulations! I hope it's a smashing success for you. Please DO post when you get it and tell us how you like it and all. > The consesus is that while the nVidia cards are superior vis-a-vis their > specs, the *drivers* are not mature enough at present to make the best use > of them. They excel at games and apps using OpenGL, but (currently) lag > behind the Radeons in Apple core/pro apps. Many hope/suspect that Apple > will be updating the drivers soon, but it's a bit of a gamble. That's pretty much what I've read online as well. But people are much more timely about posting their problems than solutions so I have found very little since Apple issued the Nvidia firmware update (in late March IIRC). So I was kind of hoping that the update alleviated the problems. > Reading about experience's such as your daughter's was one significant > factor in my decision not to go for an iMac. I do think the iMac is a great, affordable computer--- especially if you like something new every few years, don't care to tinker, and are not worried about expandability. I almost bought one, actually, until I saw how utterly impossible they are for anyone but a tech to get into. That's when I decided to get another *easily* expandable Mac more like my G4 PPC. > ...I got the new (Jan 08) Mac Pro: tons of expandability, including > two (!) PCIe 2.0 slots. This mean you have room for a second 'pro' [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > read nothing concerning PCIe 1.0 cards, but would assume they're not > camparable). You know, I was wondering about two cards too. But I suspect that the cards all have to be the same brand at least. Those two express slots are very nice, even on the base model Mac Pro. I think you can drive eight 30" displays with 4 ATI 2600 XTs. How great for people who do presentations. Apple recommends the Nvidia 8800 (512 MB) for even moderate gaming on the Pro, however. I'm not an "ultimate gamer" but I do enjoy an adventure game now and then. My husband has an ATI card in his 1.2 GHz G4 iBook and it can't even do a decent job on the old Nanosaur game what with stuttering, artifacts, and game interruptions. But I've never had such problems on my G4. It still has the best *game* graphics of our three computers and it's never choked on a movie or moderate Canvas use either. It has a Nvidia GeForce2 MX (and is 7+ years old now). > There is some debate about the ability to upgrade the GPU in a new iMac. > It uses a MXM PCIe connector, so it's theoretically possible (though > undoubtedly voids your warranty), but would require some technical > expertise. Trust me. You don't want to break down an iMac and it would cost a bundle to have a tech do it--- if it's practicable that is. Given that, be glad you ordered a Mac Pro. > Google is your friend. There is lots of info and comparison test results > out there. As well, selling off your current Mac to offset the costs of a > new one is always a viable option. Absolutely. I've spent many long hours reading up on the Pro. It's very exciting to see how far these models (G3, G4, G5, MP) have come in the last 8-10 years. For a time, it seemed as though Apple had cut back on the expandability of these units but now, they've improved that again--- and just in time for me to get one. I love how they've eliminated so much wiring and cable on the interior. The memory risers seem like a big improvement, making RAM installation a good deal easier. HD installation looks easier as well. Now if only I could find some people with that Nvidia 8800 in a Pro... to see how they are faring. Thanks for posting your helpful information. :) Madeleine : > I've just placed an order for my first MacIntel ... did a lot of research : > and, especially when considering an iMac, sought out user opinion about : > the graphic card(s). : Oh congratulations! I hope it's a smashing success for you. Please DO : post when you get it and tell us how you like it and all. Thanks - I'm sure it will be. As I was out tending to business, the FedEx guy dropped by ... missed him by 10 mins!! Grrr. No matter ... to much to do today to tend to it ... though working into the wee hours has some appeal. lol But it should be here by noon tomorrow (California to BC .. via Tennnessee .. WTF?) : > The consesus is that while the nVidia cards are superior vis-a-vis their : > specs, the *drivers* are not mature enough at present to make the best use : > of them. They excel at games and apps using OpenGL, but (currently) lag : > behind the Radeons in Apple core/pro apps. Many hope/suspect that Apple : > will be updating the drivers soon, but it's a bit of a gamble. : That's pretty much what I've read online as well. But people are much : more timely about posting their problems than solutions so I have found : very little since Apple issued the Nvidia firmware update (in late March : IIRC). So I was kind of hoping that the update alleviated the problems. : > Reading about experience's such as your daughter's was one significant : > factor in my decision not to go for an iMac. : I do think the iMac is a great, affordable computer--- especially if you : like something new every few years, don't care to tinker, and are not : worried about expandability. I almost bought one, actually, until I saw : how utterly impossible they are for anyone but a tech to get into. : That's when I decided to get another *easily* expandable Mac more like : my G4 PPC. I have a G4/500 as my main workhorse. Will likely use it for Time Machine and an iTunes server. It's not fully thought out yet, so if folks have some ideas ... :) I've also sprung for another drive ... a WD 680G ... after some reading, it seemed the consensus was that it was the boot drive of choice for now ... WD has managed 320G per platter ... 2 platters = speedier than 3, which is generally needed for anything over 500G. I'll use the stock 320G for TM (?), backup boot and a media scratch disk. : > ...I got the new (Jan 08) Mac Pro: tons of expandability, including : > two (!) PCIe 2.0 slots. This mean you have room for a second 'pro' [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] : > read nothing concerning PCIe 1.0 cards, but would assume they're not : > camparable). : You know, I was wondering about two cards too. But I suspect that the : cards all have to be the same brand at least. Those two express slots [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] : moderate gaming on the Pro, however. I'm not an "ultimate gamer" but I : do enjoy an adventure game now and then. I was reading more on that ... not a lot out there ... and folks were confirming that they had to be the same make and model. I'll be getting a second monitor in the near furture and thought it would be good to use one primarily for Apple Core/Apps, and the other for gaming ... each driven with a diff card. Oh well. And yes ... with 4 cards, you can drive 8 monitors. : My husband has an ATI card in his 1.2 GHz G4 iBook and it can't even do : a decent job on the old Nanosaur game what with stuttering, artifacts, : and game interruptions. But I've never had such problems on my G4. It : still has the best *game* graphics of our three computers and it's never : choked on a movie or moderate Canvas use either. It has a Nvidia : GeForce2 MX (and is 7+ years old now). : > There is some debate about the ability to upgrade the GPU in a new iMac. : > It uses a MXM PCIe connector, so it's theoretically possible (though : > undoubtedly voids your warranty), but would require some technical : > expertise. : Trust me. You don't want to break down an iMac and it would cost a : bundle to have a tech do it--- if it's practicable that is. Given that, : be glad you ordered a Mac Pro. My thought as well. And even if replacement was doable, there's still the matter that it would be limited to what is essentially a laptop component. The MacBook Pros do seem impressive, but this Mac Pro I intend to use for many many years. : > Google is your friend. There is lots of info and comparison test results : > out there. As well, selling off your current Mac to offset the costs of a : > new one is always a viable option. : Absolutely. I've spent many long hours reading up on the Pro. It's : very exciting to see how far these models (G3, G4, G5, MP) have come in [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] : seem like a big improvement, making RAM installation a good deal easier. : HD installation looks easier as well. Yes. Both seem absurdly simple. My first box was a IIci. Still pretty simple, but nothing like the Pros. Of course, I accpet that "the next big thing" will be a nice desktop comp to breach the iMac/Mac Pro gap. It's been too long without one, and consumer pressure is really mounting. : Now if only I could find some people with that Nvidia 8800 in a Pro... : to see how they are faring. Thanks for posting your helpful : information. :) You're welcome. Thanks for your feedback as well. I'll keep my eyes open on that too! Well ... maybe in a couple weeks ;-) : Madeleine Cheers! -- Non Illegitimi Carborundum |
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