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Mac Forum / General / Hardware / November 2006OS X 10.5 and Classic on a PowerPC G4/G5
QUESTION. Will classic run on a PowerPC G4 and/or G5 with OS X 10.5? Thanks, PaulN > QUESTION. Will classic run on a PowerPC G4 and/or G5 with OS X 10.5? Nobody who knows is allowed to say, but there's little reason to believe it won't.  SignatureWhat I write is what I mean. I request that anyone who decides to respond please refrain from "disagreeing" with something I didn't write in the first place. In comp.sys.mac.system Gregory Weston <uce@splook.com> wrote: > > QUESTION. Will classic run on a PowerPC G4 and/or G5 with OS X 10.5? > Nobody who knows is allowed to say, but there's little reason to believe > it won't. Very interesting. I wonder why such a thing would be kept secret when so much is talked about 10.5, even at apple.com. /PaulN > In comp.sys.mac.system Gregory Weston <uce@splook.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Very interesting. I wonder why such a thing would be kept secret when so much > is talked about 10.5, even at apple.com. The stuff at apple.com is all about the new features, for marketing purposes. SignatureBarry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu Arlington, MA *** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me *** *** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group *** > In comp.sys.mac.system Gregory Weston <uce@splook.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Very interesting. I wonder why such a thing would be kept secret when so much > is talked about 10.5, even at apple.com. It's entirely a guess on my behalf, but my guess is that classic probably will run on OS X 10.5. And the reason for this guess is that I think the decision at Apple was to "turn off" support for classic with the new Intel Macs, which they have done. So I think they've done the "turning off" of classic already in fact. I could be completely wrong though :) SignaturePatrick Brighton, UK <http://www.patrickjames.me.uk> > In comp.sys.mac.system Gregory Weston <uce@splook.com> wrote: > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Very interesting. I wonder why such a thing would be kept secret when so much > is talked about 10.5, even at apple.com. "Not positively stating" is not the same as "Keeping it a secret". However, Apple have "stated positively" that Classic will not work on _Intel_ Macs no matter what OS, so I do actually expect them to say so quite clearly when they stop supporting it on PPC. But I also expect that keeping those bits and pieces in there for the time being does not require much effort and thus they will stay until the relevant major system components get a thorough overhaul. Signature/Jon For contact info, run the following in Terminal: Mail: echo 36199371860304980107073482417748002696458P|dc Skype: echo 139576319600233690471689738P|dc In comp.sys.mac.system Jon <see_signature@mac.com.invalid> wrote: > However, Apple have "stated positively" that Classic will not work on > _Intel_ Macs no matter what OS I seem to remember Apple being completely silent on Classic support on Intel Macs until the Intel Macs were released. Any pre-release announcements are only going to contain positive info, for marketing purposes. Why trumpet the loss of a feature that is still used by some? > so I do actually expect them to say so quite clearly when they stop > supporting it on PPC. Me too, but not until that actually happens. And we're not at that point yet. We'll just have to wait for the release of 10.5 to find out. I no longer don't have any apps that require Classic so it's not a big deal for me. But I still think the chances are high that 10.4 is the end of the road for PPC users who need Classic. All speculation, of course. SignatureK. Lang may your lum reek. > Me too, but not until that actually happens. And we're not at that point > yet. We'll just have to wait for the release of 10.5 to find out. I > no longer don't have any apps that require Classic so it's not a big deal > for me. But I still think the chances are high that 10.4 is the end of > the road for PPC users who need Classic. All speculation, of course. I believe (!) that Classic will be around on PPC for as long as Apple keeps developing new PPC versions of the OS; most likely until at least 10.6. I find it likely (!) that PPC and Classic will last equally long as supported and developed technologies, and that from 10.7 (or 10.8 at most) Apple will say "Intel Only from here on", and that means no more Classic support -- i.e., in any _new_ versions of the OS. Old Mac OS X and Classic versions will of course keep on running for a long time after that, which means there will still be people running OS 9 apps under Classic well into the next decade -- just like people still use OS 9-bootable Macs today, 6 years after the launch of OS X. But these are my beliefs only; just my 2 cents. Signature/Jon For contact info, run the following in Terminal: Mail: echo 36199371860304980107073482417748002696458P|dc Skype: echo 139576319600233690471689738P|dc Partition your hard drive if you want to use both. (only if 10.5 doesn't support classic) > QUESTION. Will classic run on a PowerPC G4 and/or G5 with OS X 10.5? > > Thanks, PaulN > Partition your hard drive if you want to use both. (only if 10.5 > doesn't support classic) If 10.5 doesn't support Classic, and I consider that extremely unlikely, there's still no reason why a Mac that's capable of booting in OS 9 won't continue to be able to do so, using the same OS 9 System Folder in the current location. Signature<http://designsbymike.biz/macconsultshop.shtml> Mac-themed T-shirts <http://designsbymike.biz/musings.shtml> Mostly muckraking T-shirts <http://designsbymike.biz/prius.shtml> Prius shirts & bumper stickers <http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gift > If 10.5 doesn't support Classic, and I consider that extremely unlikely, > there's still no reason why a Mac that's capable of booting in OS 9 > won't continue to be able to do so, using the same OS 9 System Folder in > the current location. That's true, but the people who will lose out are the ones that have computers like mine; PPCs that can't boot OS 9. Those users will have to choose between Classic and 10.5; they won't be able to have both. Well, I guess they can keep a 10.4 partition around to boot into, and then run Classic from there. Hopefully 10.5 will support Classic, making all of this a non-issue. > That's true, but the people who will lose out are the ones that have > computers like mine; PPCs that can't boot OS 9. Those users will > have to choose between Classic and 10.5; they won't be able to have > both. Well, I guess they can keep a 10.4 partition around to boot > into, and then run Classic from there. Hopefully 10.5 will support > Classic, making all of this a non-issue. I expect that 10.5 will support Classic on PPC Macs. I'd be very surprised if it doesn't. SignatureStop Mad Cowboy Disease: Impeach the son of a Bush. > > That's true, but the people who will lose out are the ones that have > > computers like mine; PPCs that can't boot OS 9. Those users will [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > I expect that 10.5 will support Classic on PPC Macs. I'd be very > surprised if it doesn't. i'd be very surprised if it did. classic hooks into the system at a fairly low level to allow os9 to boot, and more than likely, those hooks would need to be updated for leopard. since classic obviously won't work on intel, updating it would be to support machines that debuted roughly 18 months prior to leopard's expected launch. i doubt that would be high on the priority list. also, quickdraw has been deprecated for a while, and apple recently announced resolution independent graphics in leopard, so perhaps this is the time that quickdraw completely goes away, which would effectively eliminate the ability to support classic regardless of the processor. the writing is on the wall. > classic hooks into the system at a fairly low level to allow os9 to > boot, and more than likely, those hooks would need to be updated for > leopard. Those hooks are MACH. The OS 8.6 (and later) microkernel was made with the same interface. SignatureMvh./Regards, Niels Jørgen Kruse, Vanløse, Denmark > > classic hooks into the system at a fairly low level to allow os9 to > > boot, and more than likely, those hooks would need to be updated for > > leopard. > > Those hooks are MACH. The OS 8.6 (and later) microkernel was made with > the same interface. Are you suggesting that Mac OS 8.6 was based on the MACH microkernel? > > > classic hooks into the system at a fairly low level to allow os9 to > > > boot, and more than likely, those hooks would need to be updated for [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Are you suggesting that Mac OS 8.6 was based on the MACH microkernel? No. SignatureMvh./Regards, Niels Jørgen Kruse, Vanløse, Denmark > QUESTION. Will classic run on a PowerPC G4 and/or G5 with OS X 10.5? Don't count on it. Keeping Classic support in the OS for old machines doesn't help to sell any new hardware, but getting rid of it might. None of those who still rely on Classic are in the market for a new Mac, nor are most of them good prospects for the sale of the latest retail OS. If they really want to upgrade to Leopard and know that doing so means the end of Classic anyway, they may be more likely to abandon Classic (finally!) and spring for a fast new Mac to run the new OS. It makes more sense for Apple to use the new OS to entice people to buy new $1000 Macs than to keep Classic in order to entice a few owners of PPC Macs to buy a $100 OS upgrade. Getting rid of Classic also eliminates a process running as root that could be a potential source of compatibility and security problems. |
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