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Mac Forum / General / Hardware / July 2006retro original Macintosh
How about a Mac that: * Have an enlarged version of the original Macintosh case, except, of course, replacing the floppy disk slot with a CD-ROM or DVD-ROM disk slot and replacing the ports on the back. * But unlike the original Macintosh, does not use Torx screws to open and the CRT and the rest is cleanly separated. * Uses a 12 inch (not 9 inch) CRT display. * Has a low end Core 2 Solo processor. * is bought just like a refrigiator or a vacuum cleaner (like the original Macintosh is supposed to) * is simple to buy (only one hardware configuration, for example) * cost $500US or less * runs Mac OS X, of course. * comes with 256 or 512 MB of RAM Modifications to the list will be sent as replies. What do you think of this? > How about a Mac that: > * Have an enlarged version of the original Macintosh case, except, of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > * runs Mac OS X, of course. > * comes with 256 or 512 MB of RAM The keyboard of this Mac should be beige (or platinum) in order to mirror it. It should not have the F-keys or any other key on the top of the current Mac keyboard or the numeric keypad to save space, just like the original Macintosh, but should have Help, Delete, Home, End, Page Up, Page Down, and the arrow keys. This is a compromise between the current Mac's keyboard and the original Mac's keyboard. The mouse of this Mac, again, should be beige (or platinum) in order to mirror it and have only one mouse button. > The keyboard of this Mac should be beige (or platinum) in order to > mirror it. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Page Down, and the arrow keys. This is a compromise between the current > Mac's keyboard and the original Mac's keyboard. Also the keyboard (and all USB Mac keyboards)'s Option key should not have the Apple symbol. That's for back when both the Apple IIgs and Macs used the same ADB keyboards. > Also the keyboard (and all USB Mac keyboards)'s Option key should not have > the Apple symbol. That's for back when both the Apple IIgs and Macs used the > same ADB keyboards. I'm confused by the above. The original Mac 128K keyboard had an Option and command (no text, just the "cloverleaf" symbol) to the left of the space bar and an Enter and Option key to the right of the space bar.  SignatureJames Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas ..... taliesinsoft@mac.com > I'm confused by the above. Same as you were about who's correcting whose grammar? --- Joe option should be command. sorry for the mistake. > > Also the keyboard (and all USB Mac keyboards)'s Option key should not have > > the Apple symbol. That's for back when both the Apple IIgs and Macs used the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > command (no text, just the "cloverleaf" symbol) to the left of the space bar > and an Enter and Option key to the right of the space bar. > How about a Mac that: > * Have an enlarged version of the original Macintosh case, except, of [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > * runs Mac OS X, of course. > * comes with 256 or 512 MB of RAM * have low-cost intergrated graphics * be quiet (for example, trying not to have a fan) > What do you think of this? A 12" CRT? That's just... stupid. > > What do you think of this? > > A 12" CRT? > > That's just... stupid. I was thinking 15 inch, but the Mac needs to be small, just like a original Macintosh, and there are 12 inch displays on laptops. yuhongbao_...@hotmail.com wrote: > > > What do you think of this? > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I was thinking 15 inch, but the Mac needs to be small, just like a > original Macintosh, and there are 12 inch displays on laptops. "an original" not "a original". Sorry for this. > > > What do you think of this? > > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > I was thinking 15 inch, but the Mac needs to be small, just like a > original Macintosh, and there are 12 inch displays on laptops. There are 12" CRTs on laptops? Really? You are a very strange person. > There are 12" CRTs on laptops? Really? What a stupid question. Are you sleep-deprived or what? --- Joe In article <nobody-0207060015380001@dialup-4.232.168.143.dial1.losangeles1.level3.n > What a stupid question. Are you sleep-deprived or what? Unable to detect sarcasm, Joe? > In article > <nobody-0207060015380001@dialup-4.232.168.143.dial1.losangeles1.level3.n > > > What a stupid question. Are you sleep-deprived or what? > > Unable to detect sarcasm, Joe? Read my reply to Mike. There was *nothing* to be sarcastic about, except your own apparent confusion. The OP never did say that laptops have CRT's. --- Joe In article <nobody-0207060828520001@dialup-4.232.240.10.dial1.losangeles1.level3.ne > Read my reply to Mike. There was *nothing* to be sarcastic about, except > your own apparent confusion. The OP never did say that laptops have > CRT's. So you're telling me where I can and cannot respond sarcastically? What a pity. You're only going to be disappointed. Now, run along and play. > In article > <nobody-0207060828520001@dialup-4.232.240.10.dial1.losangeles1.level3.ne [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > So you're telling me where I can and cannot respond sarcastically? Nope, just that you're deluded if you think your *stupid* remark was sarcasm. It was just plain silly. (In case you still don't get it, Mr. B., you confused "display" with "CRT" and then *tried* to make a clever sarcastic remark.) You just don't get it, I guess. --- Joe In article <nobody-0207061104560001@dialup-4.232.240.250.dial1.losangeles1.level3.n > You just don't get it, I guess. Oh, I get your point. We can wrap this up with three quick points: 1 - I understood exactly what had been said and what I typed. 2 - This concept of a "retro Mac" is useless unless the OP is prepared to build one. Now THAT would be cool. Useless, but cool. 3 - I don't care about your opinion. > In article > <nobody-0207061104560001@dialup-4.232.240.250.dial1.losangeles1.level3.n > > > You just don't get it, I guess. > > Oh, I get your point.We can wrap this up with three quick points: Nope. We can wrap this up with TWO quick points: 1. Re-read the thread. You still don't get it. (You *do* know the difference between "CRT" and "Display", don't you?) 2. Quit being a bully to people (like the OP) who are really not bothering you. Just *suggestions*, bawss! --- Joe > Quit being a bully to people (like the OP) who are really not bothering > you. Are were all reading the same thread? The one Dave and I are reading was started by yuhongbao_386@hotmail.com, who has posted over and over recently about how the problem with Macs is that we have choices in what buy and that there should just be two, one black and one white. Which OP are _you_ reading? SignatureMike Rosenberg <http://macconsult.com/cafepress/> Net Junkie and Mac-themed shirts etc. <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart <http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gifts > > Quit being a bully to people (like the OP) who are really not bothering > > you. > > Are were all reading the same thread? The one Dave and I are reading > was started by yuhongbao_386@hotmail.com Mike, I see no other threads containing yuhongbao_386@hotmail.com, either here, or on c.s.m.sysytem. Maybe there is some hidden context which does not show up via my ISP's collection of Usenet postings. Regardless, Mr. B. certainly was personally (i.e. ad hominem-wise) abusive toward this OP, even though I can see no retaliation in kind from yuhongbao_386 to Mr. B. Indeed, yuhongbao_386 seems to have a remarkable amount of patience with Mr. B's harsh tone toward him. Even Mr. B. seems to verify and reinforce his strange concern with yuhongbao's ideas. ("2 - This concept of a "retro Mac" is useless unless the OP is prepared to build one. Now THAT would be cool. Useless, but cool.") And his ad hominem abusiveness ("A 12" CRT? That's just... stupid." and "You are a very strange person.") toward yuhongbao, Mr. B even seems to have a "strange" concern with my connection method: "(In Los Angeles and on dialup? How last century.)" My question to you, Mike, is can't you see Mr. B's bullying tone? --- Joe In article <nobody-0207061735300001@dialup-4.232.132.85.dial1.losangeles1.level3.ne > My question to you, Mike, is can't you see Mr. B's bullying tone? Do you feel bullied, nobody? The OP responded to my post, BTW. Or did you not read that far in the thread? > In article > <nobody-0207061735300001@dialup-4.232.132.85.dial1.losangeles1.level3.ne [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > The OP responded to my post, BTW. Or did you not read that far in the > thread? I have read 34 posts in this thread including your latest. Have you looked up "CRT" and "Display" yet? You are adding nothing of substance to this thread... just more ad hominems and bullshit. --- Joe In article <nobody-0207061454230001@dialup-4.232.132.203.dial1.losangeles1.level3.n > Re-read the thread. You still don't get it. You're wrong. I get it entirely. You need to either learn to read, or learn to ignore. Take your expression of your own identity to heart. You're nobody. And invalid. (In Los Angeles and on dialup? How last century.) > In article > <nobody-0207061454230001@dialup-4.232.132.203.dial1.losangeles1.level3.n > Take your expression of your own identity to heart. > > You're nobody. And invalid. > > (In Los Angeles and on dialup? How last century.) Wow, ad hominen, and condescending as to method of connection. Way to go, Mr. Balderdash. --- Joe > 2 - This concept of a "retro Mac" is useless unless the OP is prepared > to build one. Now THAT would be cool. Useless, but cool. That is why it is just a concept. > > There are 12" CRTs on laptops? Really? > > What a stupid question. Are you sleep-deprived or what? You're not very good at following a thread, are you? SignatureMike Rosenberg <http://macconsult.com/cafepress/> Net Junkie and Mac-themed shirts etc. <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart <http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gifts > > > There are 12" CRTs on laptops? Really? > > > > What a stupid question. Are you sleep-deprived or what? > > You're not very good at following a thread, are you? Sheesh... I thought that *Balderstone* might say something like this, but not *you* Mike. Re-read the thread... Balderstone bitched at the *size* of the proposed display. The OP compared the proposed *size* of the display to the *size* of some laptops displays. No one, *except Balderstone* tried to say that a laptop has a CRT. What a hoot... Mike's critique is valid only if one *does NOT* follow the thread. Do you guys get it now? OP's comparing *display* sizes was morphed, only by Balderstone, into implying that (same display size) => (same display TYPE). Run along kiddies, class is over now. --- Joe In article <nobody-0207060825460001@dialup-4.232.240.10.dial1.losangeles1.level3.ne > Balderstone bitched at the *size* of the proposed display. That's MISTER Balderstone to you. > In article > <nobody-0207060825460001@dialup-4.232.240.10.dial1.losangeles1.level3.ne > > > Balderstone bitched at the *size* of the proposed display. > > That's MISTER Balderstone to you. LOL, yowsuh! --- Joe I mean displays, not CRTs. > > > > What do you think of this? > > > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > You are a very strange person. > There are 12" CRTs on laptops? Really? No. > > There are 12" CRTs on laptops? Really? > > No. I agree with you, but the person who asked this question may possibly have seen somebody with an "enhanced" Osborne I or Kaypro II and A VERY LARGE LAP. Not really, but who cares. :) --- Joe In article <nobody-0207061952420001@dialup-4.232.240.110.dial1.losangeles1.level3.n > I agree with you, but the person who asked this question may possibly have > seen somebody with an "enhanced" Osborne I or Kaypro II and A VERY LARGE > LAP. Gad, I hate it when school lets out... > In article > <nobody-0207061952420001@dialup-4.232.240.110.dial1.losangeles1.level3.n [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Gad, I hate it when school lets out... Have you looked up "CRT" and "Display" yet? I suppose I could give you a URL or two to help you. --- Joe > How about a Mac that: > * Have an enlarged version of the original Macintosh case, except, of ***has*** an enlarged version...... > course, replacing the floppy disk slot with a CD-ROM or DVD-ROM disk > slot and replacing the ports on the back. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > * Has a low end Core 2 Solo processor. > * is bought just like a refrigiator or a vacuum cleaner (like the is bought just like a ***refrigerator*** or a vacuum cleaner...... > original Macintosh is supposed to) original Macintosh ***was*** supposed to...... > * is simple to buy (only one hardware configuration, for example) > * cost $500US or less [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > What do you think of this? Methinks before you correct someone else's grammar, as you did later in this thread, you should take a good look at your own! SignatureJames Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas ..... taliesinsoft@mac.com > > How about a Mac that: > > * Have an enlarged version of the original Macintosh case, except, of [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > -- > James Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas ..... taliesinsoft@mac.com I corrected my own, not someone else's. [responding to my misdirected grammar correction] > I corrected my own, not someone else's. Thanks! I didn't catch that. As an aside your response has got to be one of the fastest on record! SignatureJames Leo Ryan ..... Austin, Texas ..... taliesinsoft@mac.com > [responding to my misdirected grammar correction] > > > I corrected my own, not someone else's. > > Thanks! I didn't catch that. As an aside your response has got to be one of > the fastest on record! That's by coincidence. > How about a Mac that: > * Have an enlarged version of the original Macintosh case, except, of [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > What do you think of this? Sounds like an Intel-based vintage 2000 iMac CRT, more or less. Signature/Jon For contact info, run the following in Terminal: Mail: echo 36199371860304980107073482417748002696458P|dc Skype: echo 139576319600233690471689738P|dc > How about a Mac that: > * Have an enlarged version of the original Macintosh case, except, of > course, replacing the floppy disk slot with a CD-ROM or DVD-ROM disk > slot and replacing the ports on the back. > * But unlike the original Macintosh, does not use Torx screws to open > and the CRT and the rest is cleanly separated. etc. etc. Designs evolve. The eMac was the most recent incarnation of the design you're describing: http://www.apple.com/education/emac/ It's basically dead, though. At present, the closest thing to what you describe now is the iMac. I'm typing this on a 17" dual-core intel imac right now. If Apple came out with, say, a 13 or 15" extra-compact one - and could do so for under $1000, I suspect that it'd sell okay. No need to go "retro". You've got some retro hang up, given your recent attempt to revive the toilet-seat iBooks, too. Get over it. Those designs are dead. There are newer, mostly better ones. There were one or two good things about them, sure, but that's no reason to revive them - just reason to learn from them and improve future products. Almost nobody wants CRTs anymore. Let them go. The few who might want them are not enough (at least in Apple's opinion - and mine) to support a profitable market. These things have to sell - a lot - in order for it to be worth making. SignaturePlain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed. No HTML in E-Mail! -- http://www.expita.com/nomime.html Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow? http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting But do you know that that one of the goals for the Mac is it costs $500 total? The other requirements help reduce the cost for the Mac. For a long time, we has not seen a Mac which has an intergrated display which costs $500 total. > > How about a Mac that: > > * Have an enlarged version of the original Macintosh case, except, of [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow? > http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting Please learn how to edit and not top-post. > But do you know that that one of the goals for the Mac is it costs $500 > total? That's totally unrealistic. Get over it. > For a long time, we has not seen a Mac which has an intergrated display > which costs $500 total. There's never been one. There isn't even a mac *without* a display for that much. As I said in my other response to you, the closest to that would be a smaller iMac. The 17" starts (though in a state that I wouldn't recommend - not enough memory) at $1299. Apple could come out with a 15", perhaps save a little money by using integrated graphics and a single-core rather than a dual core - and maybe come in under $1000. But that's it. If you don't mind separate pieces, you can come in under $1000 right now with a mini and a third-party display. Easily. That's as cheap a new mac as has ever been. You've got some really weird ideas, between this and your pining for the toilet-seat iBooks and a total lack of choice on the part of computer purchasers. SignaturePlain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed. No HTML in E-Mail! -- http://www.expita.com/nomime.html Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow? http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting > > But do you know that that one of the goals for the Mac is it costs $500 > > total? Do you know why I do that in the first place? Because it was a goal for the original Mac which was never achieved. > > > But do you know that that one of the goals for the Mac is it costs $500 > > > total? > > Do you know why I do that in the first place? Because it was a goal for > the original Mac which was never achieved. It was never a goal for the original Mac. Reference is http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Price_Fight.txt&topic=M arketing > > > > But do you know that that one of the goals for the Mac is it costs $500 > > > > total? [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > It was never a goal for the original Mac. > Reference is > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > > > It was never a goal for the original Mac. That reads more like "Can we make it for $500?" "No." as opposed to a goal. But they tried, and with the decrease in computer component costs, may be able to try again. > > Reference is > > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > That reads more like "Can we make it for $500?" "No." as opposed to a > goal. > But they tried, and with the decrease in computer component costs, may > be able to try again. No, they didn't try. They had an arbitrary target that was discarded as soon as the price of components was totalled up. Go back and re-read the reference. > > > But do you know that that one of the goals for the Mac is it costs $500 > > > total? > > Do you know why I do that in the first place? Because it was a goal for > the original Mac which was never achieved. Well, you said it once, then you quoted yourself and repeated it, but you haven't provided any references to support your contention. SignatureMike Rosenberg <http://macconsult.com/cafepress/> Net Junkie and Mac-themed shirts etc. <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart <http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gifts >> > > But do you know that that one of the goals for the Mac is it costs $500 >> > > total? [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Well, you said it once, then you quoted yourself and repeated it, but > you haven't provided any references to support your contention. I think the reference might be to the Jeff Raskin 6809-based "Macintosh", that was more like a step up from the Apple II. I seem to recall the intent of that project was to make something relatively cheap, though I don't recall the dollar figure. But of course, that "Mac" didn't last that long, Steve Jobs coming in and wanting something more like the Lisa, and so they moved to a 68000 and a far fancier computer, and by then the $500 figure, if that figure had ever been on the table, was long gone with the 6809. Michael > But do you know that that one of the goals for the Mac is it costs $500 > total? > > The other requirements help reduce the cost for the Mac. Well, the low-end original PowerPC Mac mini went for $500 without display and input devices, so I don't see how you expect to add a monitor, and I'm guessing a keyboard and mouse, and get it down to that amount. By the way, when's the last time you looked at a 12" CRT display? That's _very_ small, only about 10" of actual viewing area. > For a long time, we has not seen a Mac which has an intergrated display > which costs $500 total. Yes, a VERY long time, as in never. SignatureMike Rosenberg <http://macconsult.com/cafepress/> Net Junkie and Mac-themed shirts etc. <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart <http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gifts > > But do you know that that one of the goals for the Mac is it costs $500 > > total? [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > monitor, and I'm guessing a keyboard and mouse, and get it down to that > amount. The other requirements I originally described help to get it down. BTW, the original Mac had the <$500 total goal which was never met/ > BTW, the original Mac had the <$500 total goal which was never met/ Nope. Find us a shred of evidence thereof, please. In the meantime, take a look at this: http://www.lowendmac.com/compact/128k.shtml Note that it was introduced at $2495 - and quite a bargain compared to its predecessor, the Lisa, which was introduced the year before - at $9995. Now if you want to really have your mind blown, translate those prices into *today's* dollars: Here's the BLS's Inflation Calculator: http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl The Original 128k Mac: $2500 in 1984 == $4872 today. Today's bottom-end 17" iMac: $1295 today == $667. There you have it. Today's 17" iMac is mind-bogglingly cheap. Go buy one and leave the bizarro speculation to others. SignaturePlain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed. No HTML in E-Mail! -- http://www.expita.com/nomime.html Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow? http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting > > Well, the low-end original PowerPC Mac mini went for $500 without > > display and input devices, so I don't see how you expect to add a > > monitor, and I'm guessing a keyboard and mouse, and get it down to that > > amount. > > The other requirements I originally described help to get it down. I just reread your original post and don't see any other requirements that would accomplish this. You said it would use an Intel Core Solo processor (as the low end Mac mini does), come with 256 or 512 MB of RAM (yet somehow be available in only one configuration), and... okay, I see, it has just a CD-ROM or DVD-ROM drive, no burner. Okay, maybe by not having a burner and only having 256 MB of RAM you can manage to meet your $500 goal, but, frankly, you really need to sit down in front of a 12" CRT monitor to see for yourself just how ridiculously small the picture is. > BTW, the original Mac had the <$500 total goal which was never met/ Citation please? I've never read that anywhere, and since the original Mac sold for over $2000 dollars, they missed the goal by a wee bit. SignatureMike Rosenberg <http://macconsult.com/cafepress/> Net Junkie and Mac-themed shirts etc. <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart <http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gifts from www.folklore.org > > > Well, the low-end original PowerPC Mac mini went for $500 without > > > display and input devices, so I don't see how you expect to add a [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart > <http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gifts or more specificly: http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Price_Fight.txt&topic=M arketing yuhongbao_...@hotmail.com wrote: > from www.folklore.org > [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart > > <http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gifts > or more specificly: <http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Price_Fight.tx t&topic=Marketing> Thank you. SignatureMike Rosenberg <http://macconsult.com/cafepress/> Net Junkie and Mac-themed shirts etc. <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart <http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gifts [re: "Mac was originally supposed to be under $500"] > <http://folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Price_Fight.tx > t&topic=Marketing> > Thank you. Yes, thanks for the reference. Nevertheless, it doesn't really back your supposition - it was never actually going to be even close to $500 - even before Sculley decided to overcharge for it. $500 was an "initial target price" - which was tossed as soon as the design team took a look at it. As I said, $500 in 1984 works out to about $1000 now - only for the last year or two (the $1000 iBook and a system built around a mini) has such a price point $500 in 1984 dollars == $1000 in 2006 dollars been possible. Update your folklore page's target and put together a $1000 machine. A 15" iMac with a solo processor could probably be made at that price, given a $17" with a dual-core for $1300. SignaturePlain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed. No HTML in E-Mail! -- http://www.expita.com/nomime.html Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow? http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting from www.folklore.org > > > Well, the low-end original PowerPC Mac mini went for $500 without > > > display and input devices, so I don't see how you expect to add a [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart > <http://cafepress.com/comedancing> Ballroom dance-themed shirts & gifts |
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