 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
Mac Forum / General / Hardware / February 2005iMac unhappy face?
Hi All. Confession, I'm a "PC man ." However, I have a mate that has an iMac that won't start up and I'm trying to help him (see, I'm not that bad after all eh) ;-) I don't have much in the way of background but know he wouldn't have been doing anything inside it. He said when he rang tonight "it had been making a funny noise when it started up lately" .. and now you (from his description) just get a small unhappy face in the middle of the screen? This suggests to me that it's not 'dead' (Ie PSU is working, monitor is working, CPU / ram must be doing *something* ) and the noise may have been the hdd failing or a fan somewhere maybe? So, any ideas from the above, any further questions I could ask before I go round there or do we call it quits and just take a PC round there for him instead? <ducks> ;-) All the best .. T i m (UK) > He said when he rang tonight "it had been making a funny noise when it > started up lately" .. and now you (from his description) just get a [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > I go round there or do we call it quits and just take a PC round there > for him instead? <ducks> ;-) I could be recalling old info, but I think that means there is no boot disk present. It usually happens when something goes wrong with the internal hard drive, and since he mentioned a noise, that makes me think a HD physical failure is likely. You should probably ask him: what computer model what OS was installed is it under warranty what internal drives are present At the very least, he should try putting the system install CD in and try booting from that. If that doesn't work, it's a whole different category of problem. A failed hard disk is the most likely IMO. If that's the case, he might need to arrange for a new one himself if he's not under warranty. I hope he backed his personal stuff up :) >I could be recalling old info, but I think that means there is no boot >disk present. It usually happens when something goes wrong with the >internal hard drive, and since he mentioned a noise, that makes me think >a HD physical failure is likely. I was thinking along those lines but didn't know if the face told us any more. >You should probably ask him: >what computer model Ok, he can read that off the machine somewhere? (I just rang him and he couldn't see anything obvious .. then found M5521 ? >what OS was installed If he knows ..? I understand that yer generic Mac user is supposed to be less 'technical' than yer similar PC user and when I ask *them* 'What operating system are you running?" am often told 'Office 97' ... ? ;-( (I just rang and he *thinks* he remembers seeing 6 something .. It's about 3-4 years old and bought from PC World) >is it under warranty Understood.. (doubt it) >what internal drives are present I should imagine it would be whatever is 'stock' for that model (he's not technical' and uses it mainly for the net)? >At the very least, he should try putting the system install CD in and >try booting from that. Ok (if he's not thrown everything away .. why do folk do that ... ? I asked him about it when I rang and he's having a look ... He has two CD's Restore and software ?) If that doesn't work, it's a whole different >category of problem. A failed hard disk is the most likely IMO. If >that's the case, he might need to arrange for a new one himself if he's >not under warranty. Ah, that would me me then ;-) The Macs I've played with in the past were SCSI based but I believe they use yer std IDE jobbies these days (or since iMac's have been about anyway). If it is a std drive, would I have to do anything to the machine to get it to 'see' a new HDD? I assume the system install disk would do the disk format / prep or would I need a Mac 'formatter'? Assuming it hasn't got a FDD would it see *my* USB fdd or would it need to be an expensive one with an Apple sticker on it? >I hope he backed his personal stuff up :) 'User' ... 'backup' ... ? All the best .. T i m > >I could be recalling old info, but I think that means there is no boot > >disk present. It usually happens when something goes wrong with the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I was thinking along those lines but didn't know if the face told us > any more. It could be indicating a hardware problem. Depending on the Mac a missing system folder will be a flashing question mark. Can he boot from a startup CD (the one that came with the mac)? Insert the CD, reboot, hold down "c" on the keyboard. At that point, you'll be able to determine whether the hard drive is being detected or not. djb  Signature"The thing about saying the wrong words is that A, I don't notice it, and B, sometimes orange water gibbon bucket and plastic." -- Mr. Burrows >> >I could be recalling old info, but I think that means there is no boot >> >disk present. It usually happens when something goes wrong with the [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >It could be indicating a hardware problem. Depending on the Mac a >missing system folder will be a flashing question mark. Ok, well I think it's the unhappy face so no hdd looking likely then? >Can he boot from a startup CD (the one that came with the mac)? He's not tried and I thought I'd better take a look before he does anything 'final' ? >Insert the CD, reboot, hold down "c" on the keyboard. What does that do Dave. It's not bypassing extensions is it? >At that point, you'll be able to determine whether the hard drive is >being detected or not. Ah, ok .. cheers. Assuming it is the HDD, how ieasy is it to get at (the onlt stuff I could find on Apples web site just shows memory expansion?) Are there any downloadable 'service manuals' (official or otherwise?) I'm on broadband and the addy works ..btw .. ;-) All the best .. T i m > >It could be indicating a hardware problem. Depending on the Mac a > >missing system folder will be a flashing question mark. > > Ok, well I think it's the unhappy face so no hdd looking likely then? As I said, depends on the Mac. Thinksing about it, I may have it backwards with the unhappy face indicating the drive is seen but no valid system folder is there. > >Can he boot from a startup CD (the one that came with the mac)? > > He's not tried and I thought I'd better take a look before he does > anything 'final' ? Booting from the CD ain't final. > >Insert the CD, reboot, hold down "c" on the keyboard. > > What does that do Dave. It's not bypassing extensions is it? It forces a boot from the CD > >At that point, you'll be able to determine whether the hard drive is > >being detected or not. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Assuming it is the HDD, how ieasy is it to get at (the onlt stuff I > could find on Apples web site just shows memory expansion?) Pretty simple, varying on the model of iMac. > Are there any downloadable 'service manuals' (official or otherwise?) > I'm on broadband and the addy works ..btw .. ;-) There are, but I can't locate the URL at the moment and it's time to go play badminton... Try a Google search. djb Signature"The thing about saying the wrong words is that A, I don't notice it, and B, sometimes orange water gibbon bucket and plastic." -- Mr. Burrows >> >Can he boot from a startup CD (the one that came with the mac)? >> >> He's not tried and I thought I'd better take a look before he does >> anything 'final' ? > >Booting from the CD ain't final. Good. I was worried that the system restore would do just that without user intervention before I could see if the data could be retreived. >> >Insert the CD, reboot, hold down "c" on the keyboard. >> >> What does that do Dave. It's not bypassing extensions is it? > >It forces a boot from the CD Good to know. ;-) >> Are there any downloadable 'service manuals' (official or otherwise?) >> I'm on broadband and the addy works ..btw .. ;-) > >There are, but I can't locate the URL at the moment and it's time to go >play badminton... Try a Google search. I hope you won? I found some but am unsure what the correct model is though .. so what does "Mod 5521" on the back mean then? All the best .. T i m >>You should probably ask him: >>what computer model > > Ok, he can read that off the machine somewhere? (I just rang him and > he couldn't see anything obvious .. then found M5521 ? No that's not what I meant. I would know from a picture, but not from a serial number hehe :) >>what OS was installed > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > ? ;-( (I just rang and he *thinks* he remembers seeing 6 something .. > It's about 3-4 years old and bought from PC World) Sorry, he needs a Mac expert to go to his house I think. The good news is if the comp is 3-4 years old that means it has relatively new hardware, which means it probably has a standard IDE drive, and definitely has USB and firewire. And he might have an early version of OSX. >>At the very least, he should try putting the system install CD in and >>try booting from that. > > Ok (if he's not thrown everything away .. why do folk do that ... ? I > asked him about it when I rang and he's having a look ... He has two > CD's Restore and software ?) That's good news. The restore CD is bootable and is designed a lot like OEM Windows restore CDs that put everything back to the way it was when it left the factory. If he can boot from CD, see if he can see the internal drive. He might have to open an application called "Drive Utility" that's in the applications/utilities folder (I'm hoping - if he has OSX that's where it should be). IF he can boot from CD, my advice is to get him a USB/firewire hard drive and back up everything necessary, then start playing with reformatting and such. FYI I believe the restore disc says "for Mac model # etc." on it. So it should tell us the computer he has, or at least narrow it down to a type. > Ah, that would me me then ;-) The Macs I've played with in the past > were SCSI based but I believe they use yer std IDE jobbies these days > (or since iMac's have been about anyway). If it is a std drive, would > I have to do anything to the machine to get it to 'see' a new HDD? They've been IDE a while, and only the very new ones are SATA. Any drive will work, it would just have to be formatted by the Drive Utility on the software restore disk. At least THAT part is very easy. > I assume the system install disk would do the disk format / prep or > would I need a Mac 'formatter'? Assuming it hasn't got a FDD would it > see *my* USB fdd or would it need to be an expensive one with an Apple > sticker on it? Any USB floppy drive is Mac compatible, however, you can't boot from them on any modern Mac. I don't even think you can boot from ANY USB device, but you CAN boot from firewire. >>>You should probably ask him: >>>what computer model [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >No that's not what I meant. I would know from a picture, but not from a >serial number hehe :) Ah, I see ;-) >Sorry, he needs a Mac expert to go to his house I think. I believe he has asked about but Mac 'experts' seem thin on the ground and / or dissintrested in anything 'old' or just too expensive? So the next best thing might have to be his electronics / PC / systems engineer mate <waves> with some help from his friends on the net <thumbs up> ;-) The good news >is if the comp is 3-4 years old that means it has relatively new >hardware, which means it probably has a standard IDE drive, and >definitely has USB and firewire. And he might have an early version of OSX. Understood. >That's good news. The restore CD is bootable and is designed a lot like >OEM Windows restore CDs that put everything back to the way it was when >it left the factory. K. So we would just have to setup his ISP info (though he may be cable modem so that should be easy), Outlook etc etc. >If he can boot from CD, see if he can see the internal drive. He might >have to open an application called "Drive Utility" that's in the >applications/utilities folder (I'm hoping - if he has OSX that's where >it should be). So the Mac boot CD gives you a workable CD based OS then? (PC 'Bootable CD's generally just take you though the restore / install etc). Except for Bart / some Linux distros etc .. >IF he can boot from CD, my advice is to get him a USB/firewire hard >drive and back up everything necessary, then start playing with >reformatting and such. Ok, well I have both so if we can get to his internal drive we should be ok (but why wouldn't it boot from it then .. unless the boot sector / partion was currupt? >FYI I believe the restore disc says "for Mac model # etc." on it. So it >should tell us the computer he has, or at least narrow it down to a type. I did ask but he couldn't find the CD's at the time. He has since found them but was in a hurry .. >They've been IDE a while, and only the very new ones are SATA. Any >drive will work, it would just have to be formatted by the Drive Utility >on the software restore disk. At least THAT part is very easy. Understood ... >> I assume the system install disk would do the disk format / prep or >> would I need a Mac 'formatter'? Assuming it hasn't got a FDD would it [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >them on any modern Mac. I don't even think you can boot from ANY USB >device, but you CAN boot from firewire. Ok, well I have an external USB and / or Firewire 5-1/4" enclosure and could put anything I fancied in there. Failing that do they still have SCSI support? All the best and thanks for your time ... I'm getting a good feel of the things now .. ;-) All the best .. T i m > If he knows ..? I understand that yer generic Mac user is supposed to > be less 'technical' than yer similar PC user and when I ask *them* > 'What operating system are you running?" am often told 'Office 97' ... > ? ;-( (I just rang and he *thinks* he remembers seeing 6 something .. > It's about 3-4 years old and bought from PC World) Sigh. Apple menu, upper left. 1st item, "About this Mac" or "About this computer" depending on OS version will reveal what we need to know. iMac could be anything from Mac OS 8.* (including 8.6) on up. 8.6,10.2.6 and 10.3.6 are the only OS versions with a 6 in them that would be running on that box, but your user sound pretty clueless so your guess is as good as mine. djb Signature"Modern technology has enabled us to communicate and organize with speed and efficiency never before possible. People have gotten less competent to compensate for this." - CW > > 'What operating system are you running?" am often told 'Office 97' ... > > ? ;-( (I just rang and he *thinks* he remembers seeing 6 something .. > > It's about 3-4 years old and bought from PC World) > > Sigh. Apple menu, upper left. 1st item, "About this Mac" or "About this > computer" depending on OS version will reveal what we need to know. Now, don't sigh, Dave. He can't get it to boot to the Apple menu, right? Dan >> > 'What operating system are you running?" am often told 'Office 97' ... >> > ? ;-( (I just rang and he *thinks* he remembers seeing 6 something .. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >Now, don't sigh, Dave. He can't get it to boot to the Apple menu, right? I was giving Dave the benifit of the doubt Dan (when dealing with a self confessed Mac newbie who was *trying* to understand the rules ..) in that you could possibly get this from the system with the bootable CD, (not OS but machine type etc, like I would from BartPE). And he has given me some other good info (cheers Dave) ;-) T i m > Ok (if he's not thrown everything away .. why do folk do that ... ? I > asked him about it when I rang and he's having a look ... He has two > CD's Restore and software ?) Yeah, and the OS version will be printed ont he CDs, too. Signature"The thing about saying the wrong words is that A, I don't notice it, and B, sometimes orange water gibbon bucket and plastic." -- Mr. Burrows > I could be recalling old info, but I think that means there is no boot > disk present. this is wrong. When the mac can't find a boot disk it displays an icon looking like a floppy disc with a flashing question mark. A sad mac (face with a frown) means a hardware error. This used to come with the "chimes of death"- the cord played gave info as to what the fault was! >> I could be recalling old info, but I think that means there is no boot >> disk present. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >with a frown) means a hardware error. This used to come with the "chimes of >death"- the cord played gave info as to what the fault was! Oh no .. the plot thickens ... ;-( I'm just a simple PC engineer remember .. So, maybe I had better go take a look at this iMac *anyway* and see what is actually happening .... T i m > >> I could be recalling old info, but I think that means there is no boot > >> disk present. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > So, maybe I had better go take a look at this iMac *anyway* and see > what is actually happening .... Have a look at: <http://home.iprimus.com.au/swoz/Sad_Mac_Codes.html> or <http://www.graphixmad.plus.com/mac_troubleshooter/sad_mac_errors.html>. SignatureTom Stiller PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF >>>>I could be recalling old info, but I think that means there is no boot >>>>disk present. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > <http://home.iprimus.com.au/swoz/Sad_Mac_Codes.html> or > <http://www.graphixmad.plus.com/mac_troubleshooter/sad_mac_errors.html>. So it looks like he might have a much older computer after all. From the link: "The Sad Mac icon and its associated error codes exist only in older (eg. With NuBus) Macintosh computers. Newer models, such as those with Universal Serial Bus (USB) or Open Firmware, use a different mechanism for reporting such failures." It will probably be difficult to make any suggestions without knowing the model number, but going back, all the older Macs I've used had a sticker on the front with an Apple logo and the name of the model. Here for example you can see "Power Macintosh 7200" in the corner: http://www.screenstudio.it/usato/720090.jpg And here's a 9600 with the sticker in the lower middle: http://www.pacificnet.net/a1/9600-350.gif And here's an old quadra: http://www.allaboutapple.com/museo/pictures/donazioni/quadra_610.jpg Heh, the good news is if it's one of those, he can sometimes find parts on eBay for pennies :) >So it looks like he might have a much older computer after all. From >the link: The guy said he has an iMac so how old can it be? He also said it was 'red' so again, has to be an iMac (or a fire bucket?). I was hoping to gewt there today but didn't make it .. Maybe I'll try tomorrow and report back ;-) All the best .. T i m |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.